COVID-19 Chat Thread

This isn't going away anytime soon folks and with all the new variants of COVID-19 popping up it just made sense to drop COVID-19 from the sub-section name and consolidate all the pandemic stuff in one location.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by lurkshere » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:11 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:06 pm
Is a new round of panic-buying coming up as COVID resurges?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... kouts.html
No. UK shops have no shortages and only a dribbling idiot believes anything in the daily mail.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by CG » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:23 pm

We still have lots of blank spaces on the shelves in our local stores - especially if you're looking for specialty items (like gluten-free food). When I find them, I'm buying more than I usually would as they might not have any when I go back for the next week's shopping.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by NT2C » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:04 pm

A lot of the items I've had on Amazon's "Subscribe & Save" are coming up as unavailable. Everything from women's vitamins to my preferred ice tea mix. No real rhyme or reason for it that I can see. UHT milk is unavailable for 2% one week but I can get 2% lactose-free, skim, and whole, then next time it's the only one I can get.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:16 pm

From NPR: A Crisis Within A Crisis: Food Insecurity And COVID-19 - 49 minutes of audio at the webpage along with 4 links to related COVID food insecurity stories.

I'm good on food/water & I hope everyone else is also. Good luck & GOD Bless.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by NT2C » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:42 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:16 pm
From NPR: A Crisis Within A Crisis: Food Insecurity And COVID-19 - 49 minutes of audio at the webpage along with 4 links to related COVID food insecurity stories.

I'm good on food/water & I hope everyone else is also. Good luck & GOD Bless.
About a 30-45 day supply of basic staples here, which is the best I can do right now. We'd been trying to move when COVID hit, so I'd reduced down to bare minimum to lower the cost of moving.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by CG » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:17 pm

I ordered the last packages of Hormel Pepperoni from Amazon that even resembled a decent price.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by raptor2 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:05 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:06 pm
Is a new round of panic-buying coming up as COVID resurges?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... kouts.html
Store shelves are full here. There have been sales of meat at really decent prices this past week end. Clearly no shortage there.
Clorox wipes are still non-existent but that is not an issue.

I have also notice that Amazon has been showing not available for the one subscription item I buy from them. I was able to obtain it locally however with no issue.

My thought is that people are stocking up for the possibility of election violence. I have not heard of transport disruptions (other than the hurricanes in my AO) in a couple of months.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by NT2C » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:08 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:05 pm

My thought is that people are stocking up for the possibility of election violence. I have not heard of transport disruptions (other than the hurricanes in my AO) in a couple of months.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=124437&p=2745909#p2745909
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by CrossCut » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:07 am

Interesting study, Horror fans and morbidly curious individuals are more psychologically resilient during the COVID-19 pandemic

At first I was surprised that "prepper genre fans" didn't also exhibit higher positive resilience scores on average, but wondering now if that might just be a consequence of our "apocalyptic-type" thinking, where we might always be considering how much worse things could get? It's probably more a psychologically positive trait to "hope for the best" than to "prepare for the worst" after all, but as a group I'd bet we tend to think the latter is equally or more important. Personally I don't consider that type of thinking as "negative resilience", unless it results in feelings of hopelessness I suppose, or being unable to appreciate how your prior preparations have lessened the impact the pandemic would have otherwise had for you and your family / friends.

On the bright side (and a lighter note), at least this study confirms we were better prepared and suffered less psychological distress on average during the pandemic, but we really need to start enjoying this mini-apocalypse more people! Stop and smell the flowers, we owe ourselves that much! :D

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by boskone » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:50 am

Why would we experience positive resilience? Most people aren't enjoying this, even if it's not having a particular negative impact.

We're just not being as adversely effected, because we view this less as a world-ending insoluble problem and more something else to overcome. It's why we're preppers in the first place: we see the potential for a problem, and start working on a plan to mitigate it.

Sometimes that problem is the back fence blowing over, sometimes it's a situation which entails extended isolation and reduced resource availability.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by raptor2 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:51 am

NT2C wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:08 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:05 pm

My thought is that people are stocking up for the possibility of election violence. I have not heard of transport disruptions (other than the hurricanes in my AO) in a couple of months.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=124437&p=2745909#p2745909
Yes I saw that in the chat thread but I was referring to my experiences.
My company ships on average one truck load of materials (not food and a full truck load weight so YMMV) every day to either Chicago, AZ, WY, SD or CA. Earlier in 2020 our logistics group said the trucking companies were having trouble getting truck drivers for the equipment. That has not been the case for several months. Trucks are busy and the drivers run out of road time but it was not like earlier where the drivers were simply not available.

Any shortages IMO are not likely due to trucking logistics as was the case in q1 &2 of 2020.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by CrossCut » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:38 pm

boskone wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:50 am
Why would we experience positive resilience? Most people aren't enjoying this, even if it's not having a particular negative impact.

We're just not being as adversely effected, because we view this less as a world-ending insoluble problem and more something else to overcome. It's why we're preppers in the first place: we see the potential for a problem, and start working on a plan to mitigate it.

Sometimes that problem is the back fence blowing over, sometimes it's a situation which entails extended isolation and reduced resource availability.
Well sure, but all I'm saying is if we as a group aren't going to commit to being superior in all 3 categories then I'm going to start spending more time at morbidcurosityseekers.org/forum. Those guys aren't affected by the problems of others, just when it affects them (apparently).

But, if any ZS members are contacted for future studies, may I suggest watching this before responding?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/SJUhlRoBL8M

Joking of course.

In unrelated news...
Inactivation of SARS-CoV-2 and HCoV-229E in vitro by ColdZyme® a medical device mouth spray against common cold https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epd ... /jmv.26554
ColdZyme (CZ-MD) is a commercially available CE marked Class III medical device mouth spray against the common cold. It contains glycerol and minor amounts of purified cold-adapted trypsin from Atlantic cod (Gadus Morhua). CZ-MD creates a physical protective barrier on the mucus membrane (ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT03901846) against common cold viruses in the throat where SARS-CoV-2 and HCoV-229E replicate. Viral particles become trapped in the barrier where they are
subsequently inactivated
. Cod trypsin, an ancillary component within the barrier, aids in the viral inactivation process.
That part sounds vaguely familiar :clownshoes:

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:01 pm


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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by raptor2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:57 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:01 pm
From : Nearly Two-Thirds Of U.S. Households Struck By COVID-19 Face Financial Trouble - Short audio at the webpage.
Considering the economic devastation that the mandated business shut down caused I would not be surprised is half of all the US holds (not just those who contracted COVID) were negatively impacted. The business shut down was IMO far worse than the disease in terms of negative societal impacts. I am not saying COVID is not bad, just that in this case the treatment is worse than the illness.

We went from a frictional unemployment rate of ~ 3% up to 14% and now down to a horrendous 7.9% unemployment rate.

https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s- ... ws-3305733
In April, after state and local governments shut down the economy, the unemployment rate reached 14.7%, the highest since the Great Depression. Since then, it's gradually improved as businesses attempted to reopen safely.
Make no mistake this economic disaster is due not to the disease but rather the reaction and the local business closures.

We did this to ourselves.


Some good news commercial mortgage and apartment mortgages delinquencies decreased. Likely due to lifting of restrictions on evictions and a resulting resumption of rental payments.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3619009-c ... tember-mba


However home mortgages were not improving.
In the Atlanta metro, more than 53,000 FHA loans are delinquent. (Metros include the main city and surrounding towns, suburbs, and smaller urban areas.) FHA loans make up about 21.2% of all mortgages in the Atlanta area.

The Houston metropolitan area had the second-highest number of delinquent FHA loans. It was followed by Chicago; Washington, DC; Dallas; Riverside, CA; Baltimore; San Antonio, TX; Orlando, FL; and Tampa, FL.
https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/artic ... 598206.php
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by NT2C » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:01 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:57 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:01 pm
From : Nearly Two-Thirds Of U.S. Households Struck By COVID-19 Face Financial Trouble - Short audio at the webpage.
Considering the economic devastation that the mandated business shut down caused I would not be surprised is half of all the US holds (not just those who contracted COVID) were negatively impacted. The business shut down was IMO far worse than the disease in terms of negative societal impacts. I am not saying COVID is not bad, just that in this case the treatment is worse than the illness.

We went from a frictional unemployment rate of ~ 3% up to 14% and now down to a horrendous 7.9% unemployment rate.

https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s- ... ws-3305733
In April, after state and local governments shut down the economy, the unemployment rate reached 14.7%, the highest since the Great Depression. Since then, it's gradually improved as businesses attempted to reopen safely.
Make no mistake this economic disaster is due not to the disease but rather the local business closures.

We did this to ourselves.
I'm seeing parallels between this and the wildfires in the west. Yes, there's immense devastation and suffering, and no one in their right mind would call either a good thing, but what comes after may well be spectacular new growth and revitalization.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by raptor2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:23 pm

NT2C wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:01 pm
I'm seeing parallels between this and the wildfires in the west. Yes, there's immense devastation and suffering, and no one in their right mind would call either a good thing, but what comes after may well be spectacular new growth and revitalization.
I am seeing parallels not with a forest fire recovery but the time and effort it took to rebuild NOLA after Katrina.

That took a decade.

There will be re-building and growth. However that will take time. There there is the question of where that growth will take place.

COVID was boon for ecommerce. There is no doubt that it was the best thing in the world economically for very largest of retailers.

On the other hand it was devastating to small business, restaurants, bars, airlines and anything tourism related.
The tourism may rebound quickly but the lasting economic devastation is already occurring.
https://www.verizon.com/about/news/veri ... t-survival

Certain individuals have expressed great satisfaction with this economic catastrophe and publically hoped it was permanent.
No doubt they will take continuing pleasure for some time.

Things will recover but mainly due to the effort and energy of US private business sector. The timing will vary based upon what road blocks are placed in their path.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by NT2C » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:32 pm

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by lurkshere » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:48 pm

Seriously, did anyone doubt this given it's a respiratory virus?

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by williaty » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:50 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:57 pm
Make no mistake this economic disaster is due not to the disease but rather the reaction and the local business closures.

We did this to ourselves.
This is untrue this time and has also been untrue historically. Once the pandemic arrived, there were only two outcomes: Economic ruin with a healthcare disaster or economic ruin without a healthcare disaster. The fear of the pandemic itself guarantees economic ruin. The only thing a society can do is control the pandemic well enough to remove the fear so that people will return to normal activities. There's a huge number of people who don't feel comfortable eating out right now, going to the movies right now, shopping right now, trying to change houses right now, etc. So long as there's a pandemic that makes people, completely rationally, believe that going out and spending money is more dangerous that staying home and watching TV, the economy is in the crapper. I don't know of any business that can stand half its customers suddenly being unwilling to come out and spend money. The pandemic killed the economy. Lockdowns, had the time they bought been used wisely (as it was in so many other countries), could have been a springboard to getting to a faster economic recovery by using that time to enact a plan that made people feel safe resuming normal activities.

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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by raptor2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:26 pm

williaty wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:50 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:57 pm
Make no mistake this economic disaster is due not to the disease but rather the reaction and the local business closures.

We did this to ourselves.
This is untrue this time and has also been untrue historically. Once the pandemic arrived, there were only two outcomes: Economic ruin with a healthcare disaster or economic ruin without a healthcare disaster.
With Small pox, Black plaque, polio and other very high mortality diseases that may be the case. COVID is not small pox.
williaty wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:50 pm
The fear of the pandemic itself guarantees economic ruin.
The fear guarantees economic difficulty (Certainly fewer people going to businesses) but only a lock down guarantees "economic ruin". Lockdowns do indeed ensure economic disaster.

williaty wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:50 pm
The only thing a society can do is control the pandemic well enough to remove the fear so that people will return to normal activities. There's a huge number of people who don't feel comfortable eating out right now, going to the movies right now, shopping right now, trying to change houses right now, etc. So long as there's a pandemic that makes people, completely rationally, believe that going out and spending money is more dangerous that staying home and watching TV, the economy is in the crapper. I don't know of any business that can stand half its customers suddenly being unwilling to come out and spend money. The pandemic killed the economy. Lockdowns, had the time they bought been used wisely (as it was in so many other countries), could have been a springboard to getting to a faster economic recovery by using that time to enact a plan that made people feel safe resuming normal activities.
Society has been dealing with far deadlier diseases (small pox, polio, hepatitis, typhus, cholera and typhoid to name a few) since cities were first formed and people congregated to spread disease. I am not saying COVID is not dangerous to some people; clearly it is. I am however saying that the risk COVID poses does not warrant the massive economic shutdown with the many problems of state and local shutdowns that such disruptions cause.

The fear that was hyped about COVID certainly did impact the willingness of people to congregate. The unfounded fears of not enough ICU rooms and a lack of ventilators all fanned those fears certainly were factors in that fear.

Still the pandemic did not kill the economy. Our fear which lead to the lockdowns at the state and local levels did. In the case of the Black Death the mortality rate was so high, I agree that pandemic killed their economy and upended that entire civilization because of the extreme mortality. COVID is not the Black Death in terms of mortality rates.

There will be more deaths from COVID but the number of deaths it causes will not impact the population sufficialy to be another black death. That said the economic problems caused by the lockdowns will ripple through the economy; likely for decades.

We will have to agree to disagree.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by NT2C » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:35 pm

lurkshere wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:48 pm
Seriously, did anyone doubt this given it's a respiratory virus?
CDC themselves have waffled on this. At one point I think they were claiming the primary transmission vector was contaminated surfaces and that it definitely was not airborne.
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by tony d tiger » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:56 pm

NT2C wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:35 pm
CDC themselves have waffled on this. At one point I think they were claiming the primary transmission vector was contaminated surfaces and that it definitely was not airborne.
This has been the crux of the problem, to me, at least.

Trust. ...or lack thereof, in government agencies. "'They' lied" has been a common theme with a populace that lacks critical thinking skills and excels at grievance and entitlement. :words:
/rant
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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:47 pm


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Re: COVID-19 Chat Thread

Post by manacheck » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:02 am

raptor2 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:26 pm
COVID is not the Black Death in terms of mortality rates.

There will be more deaths from COVID but the number of deaths it causes will not impact the population sufficialy to be another black death. That said the economic problems caused by the lockdowns will ripple through the economy; likely for decades.
raptor, I don't disagree with any of your points. However one thing is missing from your dialogue... in that the spread reduction as a result of physical distancing and lockdowns that were put into place earlier on significantly impacted how the disease might have progressed.

So while I agree with you that there have been and still are deadlier diseases compared to the present deaths resulting from COVID-19, and yes, I agree with you that the heightened fear resulted in acute behavior changes and that these changes absolutely have directly correlated to economic difficulty, I think it's worth pointing out that this response was a decision. The decision was between whether to A) deal with the immediate unfolding crisis: a global pandemic of a novel new virus with what was from the beginning reported with a high kill rate, a long recovery time period, and lasting damages... or B) to keep the economy un-impacted.

From my perspective, either way would have dramatically impacted the economy. The difference is in how angry people are and at who. The problem now is the impact has been too dramatic, the supply lines have been too fragile/shattered, the just-in-time method's weaknesses have been tested on too grand a scale, and most importantly, the time bought by the strategy used is now being used for political means rather than for getting things back on track. COVID-19 isn't the only emergency on our radar this year, and other issues including weather disasters, increasing homelessness, food security (ASF, crop failures), financial security (insufficient incomes/stock market/bank troubles) and the "other" pandemic (drugs) compound this issue.

I think the decisions made to put state and local shutdowns into place despite the disruptions was the right decision when it was the best decision. It bought time for hospitals to respond, for guidance to be issued, for new product to be created for dealing with the issues, for tests for medicines to be begun, and for leaders to get a plan in place to mitigate continued impacts and help the economy get back into the groove as quickly as possible.

But now we're more than half a year into this thing and it can't continue this way. Three months was an incredible strain. A good job was done by all kinds of people, from doctors to pork producers, trying to figure out how to manage even with shutdowns and many people getting sick and dying. But now it's October. A "bandaid" is insufficient for this long of a bleed, and a "tourniquet" left on for this long means the limb dying.

I don't think we all disagree on the important aspects of the things we're dealing with as a world (and with what tape we're being forced to limbo under/through) but I think it's pretty refreshing that this forum can handle being able to disagree and still be constructive and helpful together.

For me, there's a lot of little things I'm angry at in how the response has been done. "Elective" operations being postponed and the damages it's done to so many people are one of the big things. But I'm also a believer in acknowledging that no matter the result, we should acknowledge that things would have been different if a different action had been taken. In this case, fatalities would have been more and sooner. We paid for it, for electing leaders who made the decisions we tried to follow in order to be in compliance with the law. And now we have to figure out how to continue to pay for it without that guidance because of the election being more important to said leaders than "taking care of" their people first.

Not to get into politics. It just disgusts me when priorities are so obviously eff'd. Presidential debates and kissing babies and talking smack on social media... taking up time like a group of stupid highschool drama-seekers. All while the whole country is slowly sinking like it's the Titanic. And there's barely even any armed forces bands left in the service to play a slow, mournful taps while Leonardo DiCaprio gently hands over a signaling whistle so the rescuerers can find what's left. :vmad: 2020 isn't a very good movie, the directing and cameramen both stink. Where's Christian Bale when you need him to chew some people out while seesawing between polite and furious, 2020 needs more Batman set energy.
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