the Bushman Axe from Wetterlings and Les Stroud

[RolandTHTG]

Got me this last week.

http://www.gransfors.com/htm_eng/produk ... nsyxa.html

Let's just say that with the Eberlstock Destroyer I bought the same day and the Exped hammock I bought the week before that, I'm a pretty happy camper.

[theotherryan]

Am I missing something. Do these axes actually do something a normal ax I could get from a hardware store for a third (approximately, I haven't ax shopped in awhile) of the cost will not do? Or is it one of those things like knives where you get the cool custom $500 one because well, it is cool and you want it. I am not hating, spend your cash on whatever you want, just curious.

[BullOnParade]

Am I missing something. Do these axes actually do something a normal ax I could get from a hardware store for a third (approximately, I haven't ax shopped in awhile) of the cost will not do? Or is it one of those things like knives where you get the cool custom $500 one because well, it is cool and you want it. I am not hating, spend your cash on whatever you want, just curious.

IMO, a lot of the standard hardware store axes are more or less ... standard. Either designed for falling or splitting, and mass produced. There are good levels of mass production out there. But take a look through the axe skills thread, you'll see the diverse designs of edges, bodies and handles. I've seen the hardware store axes priced at close to $50, while these high end axes can be found for under $100.

I understand you're a skeptic, but unless you give it a try, I can't change your mind. I didn't see the point in spending anything over $50 for a knife for a long time. Granted, I'm young, for the majority of my life, $50 has been a lot of money to me. Then I was gifted an $80 multitool, it surpassed any other multitool or folder I had handled before, I still carry it every day. I drooled over Khukris for a long time, Cold Steel vs one of the bigger brand names at 3-4 times the price. I was talked into the brand name by a thread started by Jeriah which discussed to great lengths the different brands and designs. Compared to the cold steel models, it just feels good in the hand, worth every penny I put into it. I can go to the dollar store right now and walk out with a hammer, or I can go downtown and spend $250 on a titanium hammer. Which one do you think is the better quality tool?

My point is, any tool will do the job, but a quality tool made with craftsmanship by someone who loves what they're making is something to be appreciated.

[ineffableone]

Am I missing something. Do these axes actually do something a normal ax I could get from a hardware store for a third (approximately, I haven't ax shopped in awhile) of the cost will not do? Or is it one of those things like knives where you get the cool custom $500 one because well, it is cool and you want it. I am not hating, spend your cash on whatever you want, just curious.

Is there a difference between a McDonalds hamburger and the burger you get from a friend's backyard BBQ?

The difference is the ingredients and personal attention. These axes have better quality steel with more attention to the making of them. In the end they create better tools because of this. Of course without the skills to go along with the better tool it is hard to know why it is a better tool or even appreciate the better tool. Hardware store axes can get the job done and if your only using the axe infrequently good enough, but if your doing the job regularly a higher quality axe is a good idea. Wetterlings or GFB or other Swedish axes are not the only high quality axes. N America has plenty of good axes too, and most of the Swedish axe designs and forging techniques are actually from early American axes.

As BullOnParade suggested drop by the Axe Skills, and info thread http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=97323 as it is made to help give some ideas of what makes up a good axe, and the skills needed for the use of such an axe.

[ninja-elbow]

I thought there was not much difference too, then I got a Wetterlings. I find it indespensible now.

[Turtlewolf]

I thought there was not much difference too, then I got a Wetterlings. I find it indespensible now.

Considering that the much cheaper Fiskars axes perform just as well as any Swedish axe and the fact that the Hultafors manufactured Husqvarna axes are generaly half or less the cost of an actual Hultafors (which generaly run the cost of a Wetterlings or GB) it shows that Swedish axes don't actualy cost that much to make.
The Husqvarna hatchet can be found for less than $40 easily and the full size axe for $60 or less, the ones I've inspected are pretty good quality wise as well and could very well be the axe deal of the century if you want a high quality Swedish made axe.

[williaty]

I find TurtleWolf's rabid hatred of good axes to be hilarious. I haven't seen a guy holding a grudge like that for anything less than his best buddy stealing his woman

Anyway, Fiskars axes are not "just as good". Based on the rave reviews online, I had been very hopeful for them. Found out the local TSC stocks them. Got my hands on one and, MAN, was I disappointed! The handle was really hard to hold, it swung weird, and it felt like I was having to work a lot harder to get a lot less done. OTOH, the Gransfors and the Wetterlings axes I've gotten to try out have always just seemed "right". I absolutely acknowledge that, like any other tool, things like this come down to personal preference. Some people claim that there's good cigars and bad cigars. I think they're absolutely nuts because they all smell like burning horseshit. However, I don't have a personal vendetta out against Cuban cigars just because I don't think there's a difference.

[ninja-elbow]

I thought there was not much difference too, then I got a Wetterlings. I find it indespensible now.

Considering that the much cheaper Fiskars axes perform just as well as any Swedish axe and the fact that the Hultafors manufactured Husqvarna axes are generaly half or less the cost of an actual Hultafors (which generaly run the cost of a Wetterlings or GB) it shows that Swedish axes don't actualy cost that much to make.
The Husqvarna hatchet can be found for less than $40 easily and the full size axe for $60 or less, the ones I've inspected are pretty good quality wise as well and could very well be the axe deal of the century if you want a high quality Swedish made axe.

Having used both a Fiskars and a Wetterlings, the Wetterlings is way better. Maybe it's me or I suddenly got better at swinging axes or something? I don't know. I just do better work with the Wetterlings. More work too, it seems more capable of more jobs other than making long logs into short logs. Takes me 3-4 swings to go through arm width logs. I can also turn out stakes regularly, notch logs for structures, cut meat, open packages, cut cord, ... the blade sharpens like a knife with any old stone and proper technique. I was never able to get the Fiskars sharp like a knife and the ergonomics were off on that. I never knew that until I swung my Wetterliings.

I fully admit I may be doing it wrong.

[ineffableone]

I posted this on Ninja's Wetterlings Hunter Hatchet review after someone mentioned the Fiskars axe, asking how they compare to a Wetterlings.

Not a Wetterlings but GFB and Wetterlings axes are comparable, GFB tend to have a better quality finish but performance wise are pretty much matched.

This is a video showing the differences between a Gransfors Bruks and a Gerber/Fiskars

Well for over a year now I have been testing the Small forest axe by Gransfors Bruks. And I love it. I recently used to fall a tree of decent size. I bought it as a replacement when my Gerber broke. It may have been a fluke. The gerber does just fine, but can I ever really trust it. Like I said, if its only a mora and an axe, it wont be the gerber that goes in my pack. True the GB has more up keep, costs more. But you wont find a nicer axe to use and own.

Note that yes he does say his Gerber axe broke! The so called indestructible handle broke in use!

He sums up the video for those who don't end up watching it, saying they perform fairly evenly. But due to previous breakage of a Gerber axe he does not trust them, and for purely aesthetic reasons he prefers the GFB axe.

I tend to agree with Beast, in that if for no other reason I prefer the wood handled hand forged axes like Wetterlings or GFB over the drop forged plastic handled Gerber/Fiskars axes just because the wood and hand forged axes look better. And yes I do have two Gerber axes along with two Wetterlings axes. The Gerbers were given to me free, I would never have paid for them. I have found like Beast mentions, they tend to be soft metal and ding and dent easily, so the edge needs more maintenance. They do sharpen quick and easy but you need to do it more often.

As I mention the Fiskars axes are a softer metal. This does make for easy sharpening in that you can sharpen fast. However these drop forged axes with soft metal mean that your going to sharpen away a lot more material due to having to sharpen and file away more metal during the use of the axe. One of the biggest complaints about these axes is that they dent and ding constantly and very easily. This means a lot of material being removed to fix this each time it happens. Also a dull axe is a dangerous axe, soft metal means you have to stop and sharpen a lot more.

As Beast mentioned in his video his gerber/fiskars handle broke, this is a very annoying thing, as the head can't be easily replaced like on a normal axe but has to be returned to the maker to be replaced. To me this points that these unbreakable handles are quite breakable, and if they do your stuck with a very non-functional axe.

I will admit the Fiskars axe head design is a better wedge shape for splitting. However a little axe skill can make a Wetterlings or GFB perform just as well or better than a Fiskars in splitting. A slight twist as the blade enters pops the wood right apart usually. For the novice wood splitter the Fiskars will perform better as a splitter due to the wedge shaped head, but a skilled axeman would probably prefer the wood handled axe for the better ergonomics to perform the moves to split more with efficiency and skill than with brute force.

My personal take on these Fiskars axes, is they are a step up from standard hardware store axes but bellow good hand forged axes. If your looking for a budget axe, they will do, but they are by no means top quality. If you do get one, make sure it is part of the X series as those have been getting better reviews than the other versions. Also you might want to reprofile the edge, Woodstrekker's blog had issue with the X series hatchet edge denting, but then when reviewing a larger X series said he had reprofiled the edge to a more convex shape and had no issues with denting. Of course Wetterlings, or GFB already come convex, and usually decently sharp.

[Turtlewolf]

I find TurtleWolf's rabid hatred of good axes to be hilarious. I haven't seen a guy holding a grudge like that for anything less than his best buddy stealing his woman

Anyway, Fiskars axes are not "just as good". Based on the rave reviews online, I had been very hopeful for them. Found out the local TSC stocks them. Got my hands on one and, MAN, was I disappointed! The handle was really hard to hold, it swung weird, and it felt like I was having to work a lot harder to get a lot less done. OTOH, the Gransfors and the Wetterlings axes I've gotten to try out have always just seemed "right". I absolutely acknowledge that, like any other tool, things like this come down to personal preference. Some people claim that there's good cigars and bad cigars. I think they're absolutely nuts because they all smell like burning horseshit. However, I don't have a personal vendetta out against Cuban cigars just because I don't think there's a difference.

Why would I give a heads up on the cheap Hultafors if I hated Swedish axes?
Why would I openly admit that I plan on buying them in the future if I hate them?
What I despise is being told that a flawed tool is acceptable.
What I despise is paying more than a tool is worth.
What I despise are people who haven't ever used a tool saying it is garbage.
I haven't ever had my Fiskars or my Estwing fail in any way, I also haven't seen the old Swedish axes of my youth fail either (they stayed with the farm when it sold I suppose). However pound for pound the Fiskars carve just as well, split just as well and are about perfect at 55HRC. I don't have hardwoods (maple or oak, we have birch) in my AO, I know I've said that so a harder axe is more of aproblem for me than a good thing. I haven't reprofiled any of my axes and haven't had an edge dent or chip unless I hammered something very hard by accident.
A 60HRC axe is like a 60HRC knife, no thankyou! Harder to maintain, chips easier and more likely to crack.
However if I had oak and such I'm sure I'ld want a harder axe, but the boys using the old Councils at about 54HRC didn't seem to have any issues.
My local Husqvarna store has a hatchet in stock right now for $48, about $19 more than the regular Fiskar X7 price and I fully intend and begging the wife for another peice of kit.
You know why?
I like axes/hatchets/tomahawks and I want to go hands on side by side old Fiskars hatchet, Estwing hatchet, Fiskars X7 and Husqvarna side by side and you know what?
I fully expect the Husky to win by a slim margin.
My personal experience with Fiskars axes/hatchets over the years has been very good and I won't say anything about a tool unless it is from personal experience. As for the supposed issues, I simply haven't had any but guess what? Others have and I respect that, but why should that make my years of experience any less valid?

[Turtlewolf]

I thought there was not much difference too, then I got a Wetterlings. I find it indespensible now.

Considering that the much cheaper Fiskars axes perform just as well as any Swedish axe and the fact that the Hultafors manufactured Husqvarna axes are generaly half or less the cost of an actual Hultafors (which generaly run the cost of a Wetterlings or GB) it shows that Swedish axes don't actualy cost that much to make.
The Husqvarna hatchet can be found for less than $40 easily and the full size axe for $60 or less, the ones I've inspected are pretty good quality wise as well and could very well be the axe deal of the century if you want a high quality Swedish made axe.

Having used both a Fiskars and a Wetterlings, the Wetterlings is way better. Maybe it's me or I suddenly got better at swinging axes or something? I don't know. I just do better work with the Wetterlings. More work too, it seems more capable of more jobs other than making long logs into short logs. Takes me 3-4 swings to go through arm width logs. I can also turn out stakes regularly, notch logs for structures, cut meat, open packages, cut cord, ... the blade sharpens like a knife with any old stone and proper technique. I was never able to get the Fiskars sharp like a knife and the ergonomics were off on that. I never knew that until I swung my Wetterliings.

I fully admit I may be doing it wrong.

I doubt you're doing anything wrong, maybe it's just my years of using the Fiskars that makes me see them as so good. Maybe I'm actualy the one doing something wrong.

[theotherryan]

Am I missing something. Do these axes actually do something a normal ax I could get from a hardware store for a third (approximately, I haven't ax shopped in awhile) of the cost will not do? Or is it one of those things like knives where you get the cool custom $500 one because well, it is cool and you want it. I am not hating, spend your cash on whatever you want, just curious.

IMO, a lot of the standard hardware store axes are more or less ... standard. Either designed for falling or splitting, and mass produced. There are good levels of mass production out there. But take a look through the axe skills thread, you'll see the diverse designs of edges, bodies and handles. I've seen the hardware store axes priced at close to $50, while these high end axes can be found for under $100.

I understand you're a skeptic, but unless you give it a try, I can't change your mind. I didn't see the point in spending anything over $50 for a knife for a long time. Granted, I'm young, for the majority of my life, $50 has been a lot of money to me. Then I was gifted an $80 multitool, it surpassed any other multitool or folder I had handled before, I still carry it every day. I drooled over Khukris for a long time, Cold Steel vs one of the bigger brand names at 3-4 times the price. I was talked into the brand name by a thread started by Jeriah which discussed to great lengths the different brands and designs. Compared to the cold steel models, it just feels good in the hand, worth every penny I put into it. I can go to the dollar store right now and walk out with a hammer, or I can go downtown and spend $250 on a titanium hammer. Which one do you think is the better quality tool?

My point is, any tool will do the job, but a quality tool made with craftsmanship by someone who loves what they're making is something to be appreciated.

Thanks for the info. Definitely some things to think about.

[ninja-elbow]

I cut through maple and oak regularly, that might be the issue. The majority of my wood for fire is maple or alder. If I can find dead fall oak I'm burning that too.

I do kind of wish I had not given the Fiskars away now though, It would make a fine backup hatchet.

[Turtlewolf]

I just saw the full line of "Less Sroud by Camillus" garbage at the local Canadian Tire.
Want a cheesy plastic handled knife with a gaudy scabbard for $60 in 440 stainless?
How about a 440 stainless machete?
This axe at least looks like an okay tool and the original Helle knife was nice as well even if they are both going to be (or already are) over priced because of thier affiliation with an idiot.

[Turtlewolf]

Also to read Ineffableones previous posts you would think that the 55HRC Fiskars axes would be blunting with every chop, he claims that they are inferior, he posts video of one individual breaking one and yet admits he has no field experience with them. 55HRC is not soft steel, Council axes are frequently 53-54HRC according to thier web site and they perform admirably by most reports.
There are many reviews of the Fiskars X series axes out performing or performing side by side with the vaunted Gransfors Bruks and Wetterlings with no issues what so ever yet to read his posts you would think they are play dough.
I've used them for years along side other brands such as Estwing and others including, gasp, chinese made axes that performed just fine.
The actual facts are this, anything much more than 55HRC in a full size axe promotes chipping and cracking, especialy in colder weather and a harder axe is harder to maintain in the field. The hype on Swedish axes is just that, they offer no advantage what so ever over any other brand except depleting your check book more.
That said I like axes and see no reason not to own them.
EDIT:I mean this as a counter point, not as an attack! Ineffableone has done a lot of work on his posts but other peoples experiences can only go so far when teaching you, I've been using axes for over 20-25 years (wasn't allowed to play with them when I was a little child) in the field and back then there was nothing but field experience and Swedish axes didn't cost $100.

[modina]

I work in the bush in Alberta and I would never pick a fiskars over a GB axe. I use the Scandinavian Forest Axe personally and it excels on the softwoods in this area. I wouldn't want to fell a +40cm tree with a fiskars but have with my GB. We carry both types of axe at work and I don't let anyone use the GB unless they can prove they know what they are doing. I say that if you cant hit the exact same spot (not 1 cm away) on a tree over and over again then don't bother with the GB since you shouldn't be felling trees anyways till you get some skills.

Turtlewolf make sure you inspect the Husky axe before purchasing. I always check out the axe section when I'm in the saw store and every Husky axe I've seen has been shit. The husky axes Ive seen have all been designed for pounding wedges when felling with a saw but apparently they also have proper axes according to the website. I'm sure you know how to tell the difference though. Where u at? I'm usually in the Drayton area

[ineffableone]

my responce it posted on Axe manufacturer discussion and review thread http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=98580&p=2207915#p2207915 Where such debate should be.

[Turtlewolf]

I work in the bush in Alberta and I would never pick a fiskars over a GB axe. I use the Scandinavian Forest Axe personally and it excels on the softwoods in this area. I wouldn't want to fell a +40cm tree with a fiskars but have with my GB. We carry both types of axe at work and I don't let anyone use the GB unless they can prove they know what they are doing. I say that if you cant hit the exact same spot (not 1 cm away) on a tree over and over again then don't bother with the GB since you shouldn't be felling trees anyways till you get some skills.

Turtlewolf make sure you inspect the Husky axe before purchasing. I always check out the axe section when I'm in the saw store and every Husky axe I've seen has been shit. The husky axes Ive seen have all been designed for pounding wedges when felling with a saw but apparently they also have proper axes according to the website. I'm sure you know how to tell the difference though. Where u at? I'm usually in the Drayton area

Man next time you're around drop me a PM!
As for the Husqvarna except for the hatchet all I've seen have been good to go! I just finished inspecting 10 splitting axes the other day (part of a bulk order that the store had) and all were perfect.
I've aparently been blessed by the Fiskars fairy or something because I wouldn't hesitate to fell a big tree with the Fiskars.
I know I come acrossed as a Swedish axe hater, I'm not I just feal that they are over charging and way over hyped.

[ineffableone]

I just saw the full line of "Less Sroud by Camillus" garbage at the local Canadian Tire.
Want a cheesy plastic handled knife with a gaudy scabbard for $60 in 440 stainless?
How about a 440 stainless machete?
This axe at least looks like an okay tool and the original Helle knife was nice as well even if they are both going to be (or already are) over priced because of thier affiliation with an idiot.

While I personally don't like plastic handled knives, or serrated edge knives, I don't see that much actually to complain about these knives. I think Les and Camillus did a decent job on them. 440 Stainless is not a bad steel for a knife, while I do prefer carbon steel a 440 stainless knife is not bad.

Personally I like Les's other knife a lot more the Les Stroud Knife Helle Temagami. But for me, I am not going to pay the $160+ price for a simple bushcraft knife. I would rather buy a mora carbonsteel, or other simple bushcraft knife. I don't doubt the quality of the Temagami, I just don't have the money to buy expensive knives. Once they reach $100 it is unlikely I will buy them, just due to my budget ability.



Personally I don't think the Les Stroud knives are all that over priced. Helle's Jegermester sells in the range of $200 and is comparable to the Temagami. If you want something less expensive, but good quality Helle does offer other knives in the $80-$90 range. The Camillus knives are priced at reasonable prices also for what they are. Camillus sells other knives of similar design and quality for similar prices.

Now Les has teamed up with Wetterlings, personally I find Les's choices of companies he teams up with quite nice. He seems to be very interested in quality products when he puts his name with a company. This is refreshing to see in my opinion.

[Turtlewolf]

So a generic 440 stainless machete or knife is a good idea? It could be 440A for all we know, and they seriously look just as goofy as the Bear knives. Maybe they are good, but a stainless machete is not ever a good idea IMHO. As for the original knife not being over priced two months ago when I looked them up any comparable Helle was about $50 cheaper up hear, I'll have to look again evidently.
Oh well, I'm sure people will gobble this stuff up like chicken on rice.

[Gr3g]

I really like the results so far from the Wetterlings & Stroud collaboration. I have both the small and large forest axes from Gransfors and definately prefer the large for all round work, would be interested in comparing the LS & Wetterlings against the large forest from GB.

Like others have said, I really really hope that it's not rebranded to death like the BG knives. Les & Camillus do not seem to distancing himself that much from the BG Gerber line though, the only difference is that he has added an LED light to the sheath. Appart from that the steel in the knives is somewhat close with the BG knife being 420 and the LS knife being 440 steel, not too bad but neither are 1095 which is arguably the best all-round performer when it comes to knife steel.

Prior to the BG & Gerber collaboration Gerber were synonymous with value for money, where you actually got a LOT of knife for the money. I still have a Prodigy which seems to be the same format used in the BG Ultimate. It's a great knife and has held up well to moderate use, and whilst I have not bought a Gerber since they teamed up with BG I'm sure that their non-BG endorsed knives are still high quality.

As for the LS vs BG debate I have to say that they are both very entertaining, however LS is more educational. The BG shows an entirely different skillset when you remove the Parkour nonsense, with his military background he is showing techniques more intune with E&E than long term survival.

I actually wish sometimes that LS WOULD take a camera crew with him, because then it would allow him to teach us even more. Hell he'd have a lot more energy too instead have spending all of it moving the cameras around in order the get the ideal angle on the clam digging!

The only thing all of these suvival shows actually demonstrate is just how ahead of the curve Ray Mears was, and still is!

[DaleGribble]

I actually wish sometimes that LS WOULD take a camera crew with him, because then it would allow him to teach us even more. Hell he'd have a lot more energy too instead have spending all of it moving the cameras around in order the get the ideal angle on the clam digging!

I really agree with this, at least for the older Survivorman episodes, because it often felt like we were just watching Les NOT die.