sleeping bag question

[74 or more]

I'm surprised no one has said anything about Snugpak's line of sleeping bags. They have pretty low temp rating and a lot of them pack down really small. I personally have only used the jungle bag in summer but I'd be really interested to know what people think of there colder weather bags. I've never been winter camping and the one I'm looking at the most is the Softie 9 hawk. It's really really expensive though, so maybe not.

Sorry if this is considered highjacking a thread. I didn't want to start another thread on what I thought would be the same topic. Mods, if you would like me to start a new thread just let me know.

[ninja-elbow]

I think the Black bag is overrated for its weight and bulk. The green patrol bag and Gortex bivy are nice. Insulation from the ground is just as important as the sleeping bag. Try to avoid going into the sleeping bag damp and drink enough water. Dehydration will work against anyone trying to keep warm during those cranking cold winter nights. All things being equal 3-4 am have always felt the worse during a bad night.

It is really hard to carry and pack. Price is right though until I can get a good, packable, 0 degree bag. Since my mind has been in the right column (sleeping comfortably) I am building quite the assortment of options for myslef now though.

I'm surprised no one has said anything about Snugpak's line of sleeping bags. They have pretty low temp rating and a lot of them pack down really small. I personally have only used the jungle bag in summer but I'd be really interested to know what people think of there colder weather bags. I've never been winter camping and the one I'm looking at the most is the Softie 9 hawk. It's really really expensive though, so maybe not.

My first "high-end" bag is a Snugpak Chrysalis 2 (30 degree rating??) and it is awesome ... just above it's rating. I've dipped under the rating before and was miserable. When I do get that packable 0 degree bag - it will probably be a Snug.

[Woods Walker]

I think the Black bag is overrated for its weight and bulk. The green patrol bag and Gortex bivy are nice. Insulation from the ground is just as important as the sleeping bag. Try to avoid going into the sleeping bag damp and drink enough water. Dehydration will work against anyone trying to keep warm during those cranking cold winter nights. All things being equal 3-4 am have always felt the worse during a bad night.

It is really hard to carry and pack. Price is right though until I can get a good, packable, 0 degree bag. Since my mind has been in the right column (sleeping comfortably) I am building quite the assortment of options for myslef now though.

Sometimes I like to add a UL down bag to the patrol bag for that crazy down/synthetic blend. Saves me a bunch of weight and bulk but still gives reasonable insulation from that lofty down. Plus I have a fall back if the down gets wet despite everything I do to avoid it. To save more weight I use a Dowmmat 7 extra short with a ridgerest. Not that the 9 DLX isn't a crazy warm and comfortable. To many people only worry about their bag's rating and over look insulation from the ground.



For those uninformed a sleeping bag's insulation will get compressed under body weight and become almost worthless in those areas. When on the move layering is everything but when sleeping loft rules. This is one reason why those bag liners promising “an extra season" or "10 degrees" or more increase in the total system rating often fail to deliver on the higher end of the sales pitch. This is also why wearing too many clothes within a sleeping bag sometimes (but not always) doesn't work as intended. Compressed insulation is wasted insulation. Same rules for hammocks and cots as well. I hate to keep beating the drum on the dangers of compressed insulation but falure to follow this advice will not end well.

[ninja-elbow]

I'm still looking for a decent way to pack that black MSS bag. So far it has been bubba-style - contractor bag and bungee cords.

[Woods Walker]

I'm still looking for a decent way to pack that black MSS bag. So far it has been bubba-style - contractor bag and bungee cords.

It will fit within a large Kifaru POD for sure as mine does but the compression sack, contractor trash bag and cords are a time honored tradition.

[adv]

I'm still looking for a decent way to pack that black MSS bag. So far it has been bubba-style - contractor bag and bungee cords.

It will fit within a large Kifaru POD for sure as mine does but the compression sack, contractor trash bag and cords are a time honored tradition.

Has anyone tried to see which size of the Kifaru stuff sacks would work with the Patrol bag or the black MSS bag, those things look awesome? Those might be a good, albeit pricey, answer to the bulky USGI bags. I read that the Patrol bag would fit in a medium.

[TXshooter]

Is it okay to keep the MSS compressed?

[ninja-elbow]

Not for storage, and generally not good to keep anything that uses a loft dynamic compressed for long periods of time.

[TXshooter]

Okay cool, thanks! I'm going to take it out of the compression sack when not in use.

[Burncycle]

Just bought the MSS System based on recommendations here. I haven't gotten it yet though so I'm doing research.

Should I always bring the bivvy if I expect the possibility of rain, or will the sleeping bags by themselves still keep you warm even if a little wet? (In other words, no rain expected but might get moist due to high humidity, dew, or maybe a light drizzle during the night)

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Just bought the MSS System based on recommendations here. I haven't gotten it yet though so I'm doing research.

Should I always bring the bivvy if I expect the possibility of rain, or will the sleeping bags by themselves still keep you warm even if a little wet? (In other words, no rain expected but might get moist due to high humidity, dew, or maybe a light drizzle during the night)

Wet is bad, m'kay? Bring the bivvy, because morning dew will get your shit wet, and wet means stinky/heavy/mildewy if you can't dry it properly. The bivvy also increases it's heat retention capabilities, as long as you make sure you don't put it int he dryer or anything.

[Redbad]

To reiterate and to emphasize what has been said before, in addition to your sleeping bag it is VERY important in cold weather to have some insulation between yourself and the ground. This could be in the form of improvised insulation (pine boughs, leaves, cardboard layers) or a sleeping pad or two. Absent such insulation the ground will act as a heat sink and you will be cold even with an otherwise warm sleeping bag.

Sleeping pads have an R-value. A Ridgerest pad has an R-value of 2.5. A NeoAir All season trekker pad has an R value of 4.9. I have found it to be MUCH more comfortable to sleep in the cold (mid 20sF) on my NeoAire than on my Ridgerest.

There are additional means of staying warm in a sleeping bag to those already mentioned such as filling a water bottle with hot water and placing it in your bag before you get in (and keeping it with you) [the Shakespearean "sleeping with a virgin" approach to staying warm].

Good luck!

[Kutter_0311]

Depressions within the local topography can pool cold air. Small valleys are susceptible to this or at least that has been my experience. Keeping warm in cold weather should be a holistic approach.

I agree. Fighting holes are horrible at this, too.

I'm still looking for a decent way to pack that black MSS bag. So far it has been bubba-style - contractor bag and bungee cords.

It will fit within a large Kifaru POD for sure as mine does but the compression sack, contractor trash bag and cords are a time honored tradition.

I've never used the contractor bag, but bungies are not at all uncommon for packing an MSS. For some reason, most people don't brain to put everything into the bivy, ready to use, then pack it. If you roll it so the face opening and zipper are to the inside, then compression sack it down to the size of a basketball, there is no way water is getting in that bitch...

[ninja-elbow]

I'm still looking for a decent way to pack that black MSS bag. So far it has been bubba-style - contractor bag and bungee cords.

It will fit within a large Kifaru POD for sure as mine does but the compression sack, contractor trash bag and cords are a time honored tradition.

I've never used the contractor bag, but bungies are not at all uncommon for packing an MSS. For some reason, most people don't brain to put everything into the bivy, ready to use, then pack it. If you roll it so the face opening and zipper are to the inside, then compression sack it down to the size of a basketball, there is no way water is getting in that bitch...

That was going to be my next move - using the bivy as the bag cover while packed. I was not bringing the bivy on that last trip I bungeed the black bag onto the ruck.

As I have stated a billion-ity times, I love my Exped Downmat9. After a few years of use though, I think it can be a bit too warm. This may just become my fall/winter pad and I am goign to get something lighter for spring/summer. Or winter/spring?? That seems to be the colder part around here actually. Our hills are covered in snow and/or soggy well into June.

[Kutter_0311]

Our hills are covered in snow and/or soggy well into June.

I would advise never to take an MSS to the bush without the bivy. Leave the green or black bag at home if it's warm, but never skip the bivy. It may be heavier than other civ bivy bags, but if the sleeping bag inside gets wet, you will want to abandon the whole goddamned thing out in the bush.

If it was really warm, we'd sleep in a poncho and liner(only did this in the Philippines), but mostly used the MSS everywhere we went. Don't let it get wet, for the love of god...

[ninja-elbow]

Our hills are covered in snow and/or soggy well into June.

I would advise never to take an MSS to the bush without the bivy. Leave the green or black bag at home if it's warm, but never skip the bivy. It may be heavier than other civ bivy bags, but if the sleeping bag inside gets wet, you will want to abandon the whole goddamned thing out in the bush.

If it was really warm, we'd sleep in a poncho and liner(only did this in the Philippines), but mostly used the MSS everywhere we went. Don't let it get wet, for the love of god...

Thanks. MSS has special water soaking - turn into a 50 lb. log capabilities? I've only had mine since Xmas (used, good condition, $79). I've gotten my Snugpak wet before and it was, suprisingly, easy to dry and there wa little drama there.

[Burncycle]

Our hills are covered in snow and/or soggy well into June.

I would advise never to take an MSS to the bush without the bivy. Leave the green or black bag at home if it's warm, but never skip the bivy. It may be heavier than other civ bivy bags, but if the sleeping bag inside gets wet, you will want to abandon the whole goddamned thing out in the bush.

If it was really warm, we'd sleep in a poncho and liner(only did this in the Philippines), but mostly used the MSS everywhere we went. Don't let it get wet, for the love of god...

Roger that. That's what I figured to do anyway. The reason I asked is I stumbled across a video of a wiggy's bag getting soaked and the guy not only being warm but dry the next morning in near freezing weather*. I didn't know if that was a common thing or not since I don't have much experience with sleep systems, but even if it was I'd want to avoid getting the bag wet anyway.

I was searching the forums here last night to learn more about the system and saw some of your other advice on the MSS in another thread (like nesting all 3 together and just sleeping on top of the black bag while inside the green bag and bivvy if it gets hot). Would never have thought of that!

*Edit: I remembered incorrectly, the temperature was slightly above freezing and the bag was rated for 40 degrees colder than how cold it was that night, so that probably explains it lol, I think I'll opt for the bivvy to be safe!

[Kutter_0311]

MSS has special water soaking - turn into a 50 lb. log capabilities?

I know it dries out my soaked cammies if I spread them out between layers, so it's gotta do something magical there. The water doesn't disappear, though. I know I've watched other Marines get their asses kicked by a wet MSS, that shit gets heavy. I decided long ago that I'd rather pack a 1lb roll of cheap-ass garbage bags than any amount of water I couldn't drink. We had one hump where everyone got a sandbag to simulate their TO ammo allotment. Being a grenadier, mine was 29.5lbs of 5.56mm, 40mm HEDP, and M67 frags. I stuck that sandbag into a garbage bag, then right into the radio pouch on my ALICE ruck, and sealed it all up.

Then we all staged our rucks outside the company office overnight...

By the time we came back to start the hump in the morning, they were all soaked with rain and dew. Anyone that didn't waterproof everything had some extra weight to carry. Think sand is heavy? Try wet sand.

I was searching the forums here last night to learn more about the system and saw some of your other advice on the MSS in another thread (like nesting all 3 together and just sleeping on top of the black bag while inside the green bag and bivvy if it gets hot). Would never have thought of that!

Spend a little time seeing the world out of an issued ruck, and you either learn how to make things work for you, or you suffer needlessly. I got no issue suffering, as long as there is some reason. I advise everyone get out and suffer a bit, just to see how much they can improve their own lot.

[tinyang]

Thanks again to all who posted in this thread, I really enjoy and appreciate reading about everyone else's experiences and knowledge with gear. I ended up with a gently used 4 piece mil issue sleep system (inner and outer sleeping bags, bivy, and compression sac) for just under $100 on ebay. I got it and I am very happy with the condition. I will try it out on my winter bugout this year and post back with my experience.

[TacAir]

Just one last note on your MSS ssytem - Modular layering design.

The smart Army folks folks who rated the system say --

Completely integrated system rated to -30 F when the user wears the expedition weight polypropylene shirt, drawers and issue cushion sole woolen socks. To obtain lower ratings, additional layers of Extreme Cold Weather Clothing articles are required.

Warmest system rated to 60 F with Goretex bivy cover as main bag and other bags as cushioning.

To obtain lower temperature ratings, additional layers of Extreme Cold Weather Clothing articles must be added to the user's clothing ensemble inside the sleeping bag.

So - a full set of polypro fuzzies is a part of the system. Well worth remembering/.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Just one last note on your MSS ssytem - Modular layering design.

The smart Army folks folks who rated the system say --

Completely integrated system rated to -30 F when the user wears the expedition weight polypropylene shirt, drawers and issue cushion sole woolen socks. To obtain lower ratings, additional layers of Extreme Cold Weather Clothing articles are required.

Warmest system rated to 60 F with Goretex bivy cover as main bag and other bags as cushioning.

To obtain lower temperature ratings, additional layers of Extreme Cold Weather Clothing articles must be added to the user's clothing ensemble inside the sleeping bag.

So - a full set of polypro fuzzies is a part of the system. Well worth remembering/.

AFAIK, that's for the new bag, which is one single bag and a one-man "bug net" tent. In Bridgeport (Cali) our base camp was 7000ft up, and we were ascending to 5000m or more (IIRC, highest point we hit was 7km above sea level) getting buried in snow, and no one was freezing using the old MSS and stripping down to their skivvies. Sub-zero for certain, I believe it dropped below -30, but I'm not sure.

[Kutter_0311]

In Bridgeport (Cali) our base camp was 7000ft up, and we were ascending to 5000m or more (IIRC, highest point we hit was 7km above sea level) getting buried in snow, and no one was freezing using the old MSS and stripping down to their skivvies. Sub-zero for certain, I believe it dropped below -30, but I'm not sure.

On PTA(Army training area in the mountains of Big Island, Hawai'i), our bivies were frosted over every morning, and I slept naked every night. Very comfortable. For me, I mean.

Firewatch was freezing his ass off in Gen2 gore-tex, and then I'd walk to the port-o-shitter in just flip-flops 20 minutes before reville.

He didn't look too comfortable...

[Doctorr Fabulous]

I used to sleep with my clothes inside my black bag at the least, just so my nuts didn't play hide and go seek when it was time to get dressed.

[Kutter_0311]

I was still kind of used to the Wisconsin winter at that time, so a little morning walk in the breeze was like splashing cold water on my face. Refreshing. Again, comfortable for me, not so much for Fire Watch.