Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

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Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby derf26 » Tue May 29, 2012 1:02 pm

Hey guys,

On my journey to a lighter bug out bag, I've done a LOT of reading about what ultralight backpackers do, and I want to make a sort of list, because if I had stumbled across something like this before I began purchasing backpacking gear, I would have saved myself a ton of money. As it stands, I'm having to re-buy lots of stuff to get lighter and better versions. And hey, you don't have to follow this advice, but if like me you either have some medical condition that stops you from carrying heavy loads, or you just want to be able to travel twice as far every day and gain lots of mobility while reducing the chance of injury, then read on!

As an additional disclaimer, I've always lived in countries highly prohibitive of weapons, so I realize that guys who plan to bring an arsenal with them may face somewhat different requirements. Still, if you are bringing heavy weapons, doesn't it make sense to lighten the rest of your gear as much as possible?

The Backpack

1. Lighten your backpack!
Okay so, screw 1000 denier Cordura. I'm serious, 9 times out of 10 that stuff just isn't necessary, and it's heavy as hell. There are siliconized Cordura materials nowadays that are just as (or almost as) strong, but weigh several times less.

I began with a Maxpedition pack, as I'm sure many have. Now I realize I can get a backpack with triple the volume, greater comfort, and all for less weight. Is it as durable? Probably not, but there's a trade-off between weight and durability, and going all-out on durability is usually unnecessary.

2. Reduce pack volume
If you follow the advice in this thread, you're going to have less and more compact gear, which will take up less space - and that means you can go for a smaller, lighter backpack.

3. Think multi-purpose
There are backpacks out there, such as those made by Gossamer Gear, that use sitting pads or whole mattresses as the foam back, thus saving weight. Some of their packs even have the option of using spare clothing (such as socks) as padding in the shoulder straps and hip belt. Is that going too far? Maybe, and I'm not sure I'll do that myself, but if you start paying attention to every ounce, soon enough you'll be saving pounds.

The pack I'm thinking of getting right now is the Granite Gear Crown. It's a 60 litre pack that weighs about 960 grams, significantly less than my Maxpedition Falcon II 24 litre pack. And the Falcon doesn't even have a proper hip belt.

Image

The Sleeping Bag

Do sleeping bags even make sense?
Consider using a quilt instead. Quilts are built similarly to a sleeping bag, but have no bottom. Instead, they just attach directly to your mattress. Since down or synthetic insulation works only when it's lofted up, and since insulation that your full body weight is pressing on can't loft up much... well you're carrying useless insulation.

Not sure if quilts are the best idea for very cold climates, but most people can probably save weight here. I haven't moved to a quilt yet, and probably won't until I destroy my current down sleeping bag, because I spent a fortune on it and it's not about to collect dust :P

Once again, had I known about the quilts before I purchased a sleeping bag, I could have saved both money and weight.

Down beats synthetic insulation every time
My first sleeping bag was a 1 season bag made of crappy synthetic insulation. I bought it because it cost very little. I slept so cold in it, and the ratings were such a lie, that I couldn't even use it during the summer. My current down bag weighs just as much, but is good down to -9c. It also takes up less space.

Not all of us have the money for a good down sleeping bag. It took me over a year of saving up to get the money for it (I was a student at the time), but wasting your money on anything else you'll just end up regretting... probably. The compressible nature of down also allows for smaller backpacks, which, again, saves weight.

It's true that if it gets wet, down is useless, but if you store your sleeping bag or quilt in a drybag, and use a waterproof or water-resistant bivy on a groundsheet and underneath a tarp-tent, then you should be fine.

You don't need a liner
Instead get some wool baselayers. They'll weigh about as much (for a given increase in warmth), but can also be used when you're up and about.

The Shelter
Tents aren't actually necessary most of the time. My first tent was a Hilleberg Akto. This is probably the most durable and metaphorically bomb-proof solo shelter in existence, but it weighs 1.9kg (with the groundsheet). It is a 4 season mountaineering tent that can withstand gusts of wind up to 80 mph (it's on youtube).

But is that really necessary in a bug out? Are people really going to bug out high into the mountains, or can we just spend a little more time looking for a place out of the wind?

At the moment, I'm carrying the outer fly of a Shangri-La tent, which with stakes and stuff sacks weighs about 560g, or almost a quarter of my previous tent. In addition, I'm about to get a groundsheet that weighs 69g, and a bug bivy that weighs another 200g. The Shangri-La saves weight, amongst other things, by using my trekking poles; and since it can be suspended from trees, it's basically as good as a tarp for cooking under in rain, etc. And hey, this isn't even considered ultralight.

Gossamer make a similar single wall tent that weighs half of the Shangri-La. They use Spinnaker fabric to make something called the SpinnShelter
Image

Another thing you should consider is that in a bug out you might end up using some kind of a shelter semi-protected from the environment, like the ones along the Appalachian Trail. In that case, you'd only need the bug bivy for full protection from insects, so carrying a heavy tent that might not be used every time doesn't make much sense to me; and relying exclusively on a tent that needs to be staked out (not free standing) hampers your versatility.

I've not personally tried using hammocks, but there are many proponents of them. However, I don't see hammock camping to be a big thing for ultralight people, because whenever you're in a hammock you need to insulate the bottom of your body a lot more, which adds weight. From what I can tell, insulated hammocks are heavier than a similarly warm setup with a tarp and bivy.

Obviously in very cold climates, some kind of a tipi-stove combo might be necessary and going ultralight might not be possible there.

The Kitchen
Your cook kit probably has a gas stove with canisters, or an alcohol stove with fuel. Maybe you use esbit cubes.

I've saved on carrying fuel with me by going with a wood stove. There are few inhabited places on earth with no wood. Even urban areas have sticks or branches that can be broken off. Hell, you could even destroy wooden furniture if you want. Here's my cook kit. It's not really ultralight though - I could easily shave off more ounces by replacing the pot lid, and getting rid of some of the cutlery.

You could, in addition and in case of really wet weather, carry a tiny esbit stove with a few cubes. That will set you back about 2 ounces, as insurance.

Hydration
I see almost everyone using nalgenes or various metalic canteens. Even an aluminium Sigg with a volume of 0.6L weighs over 100g. Nalgenes weigh over 120g. A soft, collapsible water bottle by Platypus with a 2 litre capacity weighs a mere 35g, and from using mine for a while, they're no less durable.

Filtration & Purification

Liquid drops or tablets for purification
These are usually made of either chlorine or iodine. Iodine has negative health effects when used for more than a few weeks, and either method runs out fairly quickly. While many ultralight backpackers take just these, I don't suggest this. These are great as backups, especially in case you can't or don't want to (for tactical reasons) make a fire but still need to make water potable. ALso a good backup if your main water filter, which I suggest having, breaks.

100 of these tablets are good for 100 litres, and only weigh 10 grams. They're also good for long-term water storage, and have a use-by date 4 or more years from when you buy them.

Ultraviolet rays
i.e. the Steripen.

Image

Great concept, but not a big fan because:
1. While they appear lightweight at first, one must either lug around lots of batteries, or a solar charger, and then you're looking at the same weight as a conventional 0.2 micron filter. This still kills viruses, which filters generally do not filter out, but if you suspect viral contamination, just use tablets or boil after filtering out particulates, bacteria, and protozoa.
2. It's an electronic item, meaning it is more likely to break for no good reason.
3. Won't work in an EMP.
4. Doesn't filter out particulates, and particulates will also prevent the UV rays from fully purifying the water, so you still need to prefilter with something or let water sit for a while so that the sediment is all at the bottom.

Steripen recently came out with a hand-crank version that doesn't use battery power. That might be worth looking in to!

Pump filters
These are great, but sometimes heavy. Make sure you pay attention to the filter pore size in the (usually) ceramic filter. 0.2 microns is considered safe up to bacteria level. Viruses are smaller.

HOWEVER!

From my research into this a while ago, the filter pore size manufacturers give is based on average hole size. Meaning that some holes will be bigger. This is why they always say 99.99% effective, and never 100%. If you're going to spend a lot of money on a filter, and they can get very expensive, ask them in an email what the absolute rating is, i.e. the biggest guaranteed pore size.

Pump filters also have moving parts, which could break. Some pump filters are designed to be field repairable. Not very ultralight though.

What I've currently settled on is the

Gravity filter
These save weight by not having a pump mechanism, and provided you do your research and buy a reliable one, it should be easy to backflush and clean to make sure the water flow doesn't stop. The reservoir these come with can also be used for hauling more water.

Disadvantages include:
1. Some makes and models get stuck quite quickly and can't always be backflushed well.
2. Still not really ultralight.
3. Unlike pump filters, they don't have a long tube that can plunged into difficult-to-access water.
4. As with pump filters, cannot be frozen. That means in sub-zero temperatures you have to keep it on your person while hiking (e.g. in a jacket pocket), and keep it in your sleeping bag at night.

Make sure to use a prefilter (most have one built in) to preserve the life of your filter cartridge, same as with any filter really. Filter pore size argument above also applies here. I use this. Be careful, that filter actually weighs 14 ounces, not 10 as advertised.

Straw filters
Definitely ultralight. With some thought these can also be converted into makeshift gravity filters. I believe the Aquamira frontier pro also has some charcoal. The disadvantage is that it won't last as long.
Image

Boiling
Requires no extra weight providing you have a cookset with you. Obviously advantageous if you use a wood stove, since you're not restricted by lack of fuel. Problem is you're not getting rid of any of the particulates, which can be pretty nasty.

Boiling (especially with wood) is also going to:
1. Create some smoke, which you may which to avoid doing if you're trying to evade someone.
2. Be harder to do when everything is wet after prolonged rain.

Activated charcoal
So far we've only talked about filtration and purification of living micro-organisms. Well, particulates (stuff floating in the water) will be filtered out too, but chemicals and heavy metals won't be. Depending on your prep scenario, you might have water sources contaminated with a chemical spill from a nearby factory. Activated charcoal does a good job of getting rid of some of the chemicals that are otherwise dissolved in the water, but the best way to do this is...

Distillation
Not always easy to do in the field! I haven't tried yet, but I think it's entirely possible. One can either use the sun (and a couple of connected water containers, there's a thread on here somewhere that has pictures), or you could boil water and collect the steam (another reason why having renewable fuel is a good idea).

Be careful, this is also not foolproof, because certain chemicals have a lower boiling point than water. (Don't ask me which ones.)


Boots
My main boots are made of full-grain leather and are Goretex lined. They also weigh a ton.

There's a saying that a pound on your feet is equal to roughly five on your back. Now, why did I go with such heavy boots in the first place? Because my backpack was heavy, and I figured that my ankles needed protection from the heavy load. The padding in heavier boots is also more suited to a heavy backpack.

But by going for lighter gear, and aiming for a total gear weight (with food and water) of under 30 lbs, or a maximum of 35 lbs, are such heavy boots really necessary? My current gear weight with three days food is 29.8 lbs. That's with a bunch of stuff that only a prepper would carry (like a flu mask, heavy leather gloves, huge trauma kit, year-round clothing, big knife, etc.). I predict that if a backpacker looked at my gear and customized it for a three day hike, they could save 9 pounds on gear alone.

And I haven't even implemented all of the weight-saving suggestions yet. So if you can reduce your gear weight, you can go for lighter boots too, perhaps with less ankle protection, but that are going to let you cover a lot more ground in far less time.

Stuff sack weight adds up
While stuff sacks and dry bags may seem light individually, overall they add up quite a bit. By consolidating gear into bigger stuff sacks, going with lighter materials, or just organizing things better (e.g. rather than individual drybags for various things, why not have lighter stuff sacks and one big bag liner?) you can save some more weight.


I'm going to keep updating this thread as I remember or read more stuff. If anyone wants to add other tips I can update the list with them.

I hope I've helped someone out there!

(Oh, and if I've been stupidly wrong on something, please point it out. Quite a bit of the advice I'm giving is based on stuff I've read, and not always stuff I've had the opportunity to test out yet.)

edit: added a water section.
Last edited by derf26 on Wed May 30, 2012 2:08 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby NeverReady » Tue May 29, 2012 6:52 pm

I kinda wanted to knock on your post, based on the idea that you need to review individual products rather than make broad statements like that. But I won't just yet. I will say one thing I noticed that you said that I agree with.........Nearly every time a full leather shoe will be more durable than any shoe of any material made by any company. So at least you got that going for you.

Edit: and I did notice you gave some specific recommendations. My comment was to the broadness of the post. But to say it again, I won't knock it just yet.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby SRO1911 » Tue May 29, 2012 7:33 pm

As a lazy fat man I love some of the ultralight gear - most of what I have is cast offs from some friends i had who were UL fanatics - and moved into SUL and XUL, thats where it starts getting freaky. People going on 3-5 day trips with less than 5 pounds from the skin out. I would join them but always as a heavy outsider - since my pistol and holster would outweigh their entire loadout.

One thing I would keep in mind though, UL campers usually have very detailed plans that don't leave a lot of room for deviations. In a bug-out situation you will quite probably have to be more flexible.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby MichaelM » Tue May 29, 2012 9:32 pm

derf26 wrote:Do sleeping bags even make sense?
Consider using a quilt instead. Quilts are built similarly to a sleeping bag, but have no bottom. Instead, they just attach directly to your mattress. Since down or synthetic insulation works only when it's lofted up, and since insulation that your full body weight is pressing on can't loft up much... well you're carrying useless insulation


I'm an active sleeper. I will tend to kick small blankets off of me in the night. This is more or less certain if the blanket saves on either bulk or weight compared to my sleeping bag. So I need the sleeping bag because it wraps around my body and I can't just push it off me in the night.

I've tried camping with a blanket, and it was bloody miserable. The blanket was plenty warm for laying still. But as soon as I went to sleep, I kicked it off and lost lots of heat. It wasn't even that cold outside, and I still had to get up in the night and start the fire back up to stop shivering.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby Woods Walker » Tue May 29, 2012 9:53 pm

I am just going to respond with ideas that have worked out for me. If it appears I am disagreeing with the author at times that isn’t my intent. Just another view point.

The Backpack.

1. I like 1000d but agree it’s heavy. My 1000d packs have held up better than my UL ones. There are some trips that I honestly don’t think my Osprey packs would survive. I do prefer a more UL pack when looking to cover ground over reasonable terrain. For most uses 1000d can be overkill.

2. A larger pack often has a better suspension system, longer stays etc etc etc and this makes a heavier load feel lighter and a lighter load feel lighter still. Also if you wish to break camp faster often a larger pack means easier packing up in field conditions. Ever break down a camp after an ice storm or in a soaking rain? Gear doesn’t want to pack down living room small and wet kit is heavier.

3. The suspension system is the heart of any pack. This is one area which weight spent is weight saved. Socks for padding? The sweat dripping from a pack’s suspension system is something that would soak socks and clothing used for padding within a mile given the right conditions. When shopping for a pack I look at the suspension system FIRST and if I need to add a ground pad or my socks it’s time to more on, well for me anyways.

The sleeping bag.

Yup sleeping bags do work better than quilts in cold weather as there are less drafts etc however very often I use a UL down bag as a quilt in a hammock with insulation outside that can‘t be compressed. Also use a Woobie at times. But next to your clothing a sleeping bag of the proper rating is one of the most important kit items when sleeping out. That and insulation from the ground. Maybe consider editing your feed to include ground pad options as that is of equal importance in any sleep system, even hammocks.

Down insulation is better than synthetics in most everything with a few notable exceptions. Down can and will get wet at times no matter what someone does. This can happen a few ways. Perspiration can build up and freeze within the down. I find this to be a problem after 4-5 days sleeping out in winter but less with my heated shelters. Secondly shit happens like an accident with stored water inside the pack or opps somoene fell during a stream crossing and the water proof stuff sack didn't work. I had condensation drench my down bag. Over a few days of heavy rain kit just gets damp. Your wet hands are used to stuff the bag. The inside of the pack and stuff sack is damp even if water proof cuz it was open for one second and the relentless rain got it damper day after day after day. I had some bad times in extended rain keeping gear dry.

I am just saying that in the field you can mitigate many problems but nothing is 100%. Over nearly 25 years of using down bags the bad incidences are few and far between. Just the same if someone asked me what type of insulation is best within their preps for most people I would say synthetic.

As for the liner sometimes I pack one to prevent ice build up in my down bags or to increase the rating a few degrees with a marginal bag. However without loft often the temp increases of a liner are overstated. The extended cold weather/down issue aside I could see a person removing a liner to save pack weight. Then again a liner is a big bag and bags are multi use items. Also they extend the life of a sleeping bag IMO. Just some pros and cons.

The Shelter:

Sounds ok to me.

The Kitchen.

Sounds ok to me but make sure anyone using a wood stove knows firecraft skills. Sometimes a bit-o-alcohol plus wood is a nice combo.

Hydration.

Platys do rock but I always recommend packing at least one hard canteen. I have tried to just boil my water but suffered during a few hot trips so pack a frontier filter straw to save the weight of my MSR. All that said I do have a pump filter in my preps. Access to a good amount of potable water NOW is at times priceless. I think water treatment options should be added to "Hydration".

Boots.

To each their own. On a side note I never trust 100% Gortex boots to remain waterproof and it seems price doesn’t matter in this regard. One of my trips this year I used only Crocs. Kinda spooky for the slip n slide risk. :lol:


Stuff sacks.

I agree stuff sacks can add up and use UL sil nylon stuff sacks whenever possible. I do like a little organization so don’t just dump everything into one big pack liner. On a side note stuff sacks are a multi use item. They can become a pillow, forage sack etc etc. Still too many heavy stuff sacks can add up.

Thats about it for now. Derf26 thanks for taking the time to do this thread. :) It is easy to comment on other people's threads but harder to put yourself out there.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby derf26 » Wed May 30, 2012 1:01 am

MichaelM wrote:I'm an active sleeper. I will tend to kick small blankets off of me in the night. This is more or less certain if the blanket saves on either bulk or weight compared to my sleeping bag. So I need the sleeping bag because it wraps around my body and I can't just push it off me in the night.

I've tried camping with a blanket, and it was bloody miserable. The blanket was plenty warm for laying still. But as soon as I went to sleep, I kicked it off and lost lots of heat. It wasn't even that cold outside, and I still had to get up in the night and start the fire back up to stop shivering.


Hey Michael,

Be careful not to confuse quilts with blankets. The quilts I'm referring to usually have a bottom, so it still wraps around you and you shouldn't be able to just push it off. But yeh, it does help if you sleep without moving too much.

For example:
Image

As you can see, there's plenty of insulation on the sides, it's only directly underneath, where your mattress will be insulating you, that there's no insulation.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby derf26 » Wed May 30, 2012 1:21 am

Woods Walker wrote:I am just going to respond with ideas that have worked out for me. If it appears I am disagreeing with the author at times that isn’t my intent. Just another view point.


Hey, I love disagreement, it's how we learn!

Woods Walker wrote:2. A larger pack often has a better suspension system, longer stays etc etc etc and this makes a heavier load feel lighter and a lighter load feel lighter still. Also if you wish to break camp faster often a larger pack means easier packing up in field conditions. Ever break down a camp after an ice storm or in a soaking rain? Gear doesn’t want to pack down living room small and wet kit is heavier.


Yeh, I agree on that. This is why I think some of these ultralight packs might be going too far. Even if one can reasonably get their gear with three days food and 2 litres water to under 30 lbs, there might be times when one needs to transport extra food, extra water, or something else they pickup or forage along the way, so having an UL pack rated up to 35-40 lbs is definitely a good idea. The granite gear packs are often like that, and have good suspension.

Woods Walker wrote:3. The suspension system is the heart of any pack. This is one area which weight spent is weight saved. Socks for padding? The sweat dripping from a pack’s suspension system is something that would soak socks and clothing used for padding within a mile given the right conditions. When shopping for a pack I look at the suspension system FIRST and if I need to add a ground pad or my socks it’s time to more on, well for me anyways.


Sorry, I may have been unclear. On the Gossamer gear packs, the socks aren't used on the back (which DOES get very sweaty) but on the shoulder straps and hip belts, which in my experience don't get all that sweaty. It's also just an optional feature, they come with their own padding too in case you don't want to do that.

The ground pad is used for padding on the back, but there are already some aluminium stays there. The padding is just for extra comfort and to save a little more weight that way. Certainly these aren't Mystery Ranch packs that can haul 100 lb loads though :P

When it comes to down vs synthetic, I think it is a good idea to have synthetic as a backup, perhaps in a car or if bugging out by bicycle. But the low compressibility and heavy weight make it difficult to suggest for backpackers looking for lighter options. I guess it's the whole foolproof vs. lightweight argument of heavier backpack materials all over again. No doubt there's a trade-off.

(You also have immeasurably more field experience than me.)

Woods Walker wrote:As for the liner sometimes I pack one to prevent ice build up in my down bags or to increase the rating a few degrees with a marginal bag. However without loft often the temp increases of a liner are overstated. The extended cold weather/down issue aside I could see a person removing a liner to save pack weight. Then again a liner is a big bag and bags are multi use items. Also they extend the life of a sleeping bag IMO. Just some pros and cons.


Yeh, I'm aware of that, but doesn't using merino wool long underwear have the same positive effect? If anything, when you have to get out of your sleeping bag to pee at night, you can keep the wool on to preserve some of that body heat.

Woods Walker wrote:Sounds ok to me but make sure anyone using a wood stove knows firecraft skills. Sometimes a bit-o-alcohol plus wood is a nice combo.


Yeh, alcohol or esbit cubes can make a decent backup, and one could carry an alcohol stove inside their wood stove for less than an ounce of weight too.

Woods Walker wrote:Platys do rock but I always recommend packing at least one hard canteen. I have tried to just boil my water but suffered during a few hot trips so pack a frontier filter straw to save the weight of my MSR. All that said I do have a pump filter in my preps. Access to a good amount of potable water NOW is at times priceless. I think water treatment options should be added to "Hydration".

I actually value water so much I didn't really go the ultralight route here. Most ultralighters don't seem to bring filters at all, just a few purification drops or those battery dependent UV lights. I'll add to that section with various options now, but I use the MSR Autoflow gravity filter. It can double up as a reservoir, and is good for about 1500 litres.

Woods Walker wrote:To each their own. On a side note I never trust 100% Gortex boots to remain waterproof and it seems price doesn’t matter in this regard. One of my trips this year I used only Crocs. Kinda spooky for the slip n slide risk. :lol:


My boots have stayed dry so far, even going through knee-high snow. I was using gaiters at the time though, and as I found out a few months ago, leather boots are suggested to be waxed and sprayed with a waterproof coating every 3 months if they're being regularly used.

I'm going to go ahead and add stuff to the OP now :)

Thanks!
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby derf26 » Wed May 30, 2012 1:24 am

NeverReady wrote:I kinda wanted to knock on your post, based on the idea that you need to review individual products rather than make broad statements like that. But I won't just yet. I will say one thing I noticed that you said that I agree with.........Nearly every time a full leather shoe will be more durable than any shoe of any material made by any company. So at least you got that going for you.

Edit: and I did notice you gave some specific recommendations. My comment was to the broadness of the post. But to say it again, I won't knock it just yet.


I actually purposefully omitted giving specific recommendations at first because I thought it might be considered advertising or something, but I'll add stuff now :)


SRO1911 wrote:As a lazy fat man I love some of the ultralight gear - most of what I have is cast offs from some friends i had who were UL fanatics - and moved into SUL and XUL, thats where it starts getting freaky. People going on 3-5 day trips with less than 5 pounds from the skin out. I would join them but always as a heavy outsider - since my pistol and holster would outweigh their entire loadout.

One thing I would keep in mind though, UL campers usually have very detailed plans that don't leave a lot of room for deviations. In a bug-out situation you will quite probably have to be more flexible.


In that sense preppers and ultralighters are always at odds. An ultralighter takes the bare minimum they need for very specific and known conditions. A prepper will take stuff they might need under god knows what conditions.

To be considered ultralight, I think base gear weight needs to be under 4.5kg (under 10 lbs), and I can't conceive of doing that for a bug out bag. But I've saved well over 12 lbs so far by going for lighter weight alternatives, and that's just in the latest iteration. My first bug out bag was a Mystery Ranch 6500. That pack alone is heavier than my current backpack, shelter, sleep system, cook system, and water filtration system put together.

I don't advocate people go crazy over the ultralight thing, but there are so many things that can be done to reduce weight without throwing out cautionary preps, it seems anyone could benefit from it.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby Kiwi Bowhunter » Wed May 30, 2012 5:15 am

I completely agree with you in all regards.
Although, I do like a heavy-duty pack. Here in NZ, we can bashing through some thick, spikey bush, or sliding down a scree slope and UL stuff won't hold up.
I also move around a lot in my sleep, so I prefer a full bag.

I see a lot of people that could cut some serious weight out by ditching some useless items. I try keep my repair kit, hygiene kit, and first aid kits as small as possible, and only have a small 'possibles pouch'.
This lets you focus on the food, sleeping bag, and pack as the main weight in your packs.
I've been looking to drop some cash on a good sleeping bag that's also lightweight. The one I have at the moment is good to -8, but weighs 1.4kg. It's goose-down. I'm looking for something that's closer to 1kg, if not lighter, and good to the low negatives.

Cheers,
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby Boondock » Wed May 30, 2012 9:37 am

Interested in ultralight gear and backpacking? Check out this guy:

http://andrewskurka.com/

Open the links to some of his trips and you'll find gear lists with the weights.

Of course, he depends on an extensive resupply system, but what he's able to accomplish is pretty interesting.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby MichaelM » Wed May 30, 2012 7:04 pm

derf26 wrote:Be careful not to confuse quilts with blankets. The quilts I'm referring to usually have a bottom, so it still wraps around you and you shouldn't be able to just push it off.

This is the first time I've ever heard of anyone calling anything a quilt other than a blanket that's been quilted. (Ie one with two outer layers of cloth sewn together with a layer of batting between them.)
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby Woods Walker » Wed May 30, 2012 9:57 pm

Just a few Additions.

Filtration & Purification:

Many tabs take up to 4 hours for maximum effectiveness. These are my favorites.

http://www.katadyn.com/en/katadyn-produ ... -micropur/

Pumps are heavier than other solutions but they sure can provide a good amount of potable water fast. They can fail and like some camp stoves the owner should know how it works .

Image

Fire. Guessing the most UL but if you use this method to kill nasty bugs make certain to boil enough water for when on the move. You won’t want to stop to just boil water. Plus hot water sucks in the 90's.

Image

A filter straw is nice for a fast drink. During hot days I keep a plastic cup and filter straw ready to go for a fast drink. Don’t pack these items deep as digging them out is a PITA and you might forgo an easy drink. Ice cold spring water is nice in the 90’s.

Image

Mess kits.

A cook pot, cup and spoon is enough for most needs IMO. Some UL people even forgo the cup.

Image

Some other weight savings.

Knives.

If packing my full kit most of the time a very small knife is enough. Not telling people to toss out their ESEE 6 but just pointing out that knives and other tools can add up if overdone.

Image

That’s about it for now.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby derf26 » Thu May 31, 2012 2:17 pm

Thanks Woods Walker, good tips!

Here's a really ultralight setup I've stumbled across.

Gatewood Cape (312g)
Image

plus Serenity net tent inside (replaces bivy, weighs as much) (227g)
Image

And if you use the gatewood cape as a poncho, which it is, then you can leave some rain gear behind. All in all with stakes we're looking at a 620g shelter or less (I'm using the snow/sand tent stakes, a little heavier).

edit: and here's a youtube video of the gatewood cape being used in a snowy winter.

Damn, now I want this setup too, but I've run out of money :P
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby northernxposure » Thu May 31, 2012 8:37 pm

Hope you're shorter than 5'10" for the Gatewood cape. It's a neat system, but like most things that are designed at the bare minimum of allowance, it works best if you're small.

There's plenty of ways to lighten up a BOB - without crawling into BPL territory. The trick is to know where you can shave weight but still have the durability you may need in case it's called on for - you know - an emergency or something. :wink:

Best way to drop weight in a BOB? Get a postal scale. Weigh everything and put it into a spreadsheet. Then see where you can start to cut what you don't necessarily need.

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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby derf26 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:44 am

northernxposure wrote:Best way to drop weight in a BOB? Get a postal scale. Weigh everything and put it into a spreadsheet. Then see where you can start to cut what you don't necessarily need.
NXP


This is a good point (although I just use a kitchen scale accurate to 1g). Without a scale you're operating completely in the blind. After weighing various bits of gear and working on lightening my pack for about a month, I'm now decently good at guesstimating the weight of some items, but I still make huge mistakes sometimes. When I started out, I had no real idea of what weighed what, and worse than that, manufacturers often understate the weight of their equipment, so relying on that is a bad idea too. One of my biggest surprises was how much hard water bottles like Nalgene really weighed, despite being made of plastic.

It's only when you realize that an extra trauma bandage weighs as much as your third flashlight, that you can get a better idea of priorities and what useless bits of gear you can get rid of to make way for life-saving and essential kit. Drybags and any high volume items are also going to turn out to be surprisingly heavy, because we're no good at judging the weight of something seemingly light but bulky.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby pahwraith » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:32 am

SRO1911 wrote:As a lazy fat man I love some of the ultralight gear - most of what I have is cast offs from some friends i had who were UL fanatics - and moved into SUL and XUL, thats where it starts getting freaky. People going on 3-5 day trips with less than 5 pounds from the skin out. I would join them but always as a heavy outsider - since my pistol and holster would outweigh their entire loadout.

One thing I would keep in mind though, UL campers usually have very detailed plans that don't leave a lot of room for deviations. In a bug-out situation you will quite probably have to be more flexible.

They are also going on well defined marked trails with decent amount of foot traffic. So if they do end up hitting a major snag, BFG. Someone will be along to help them. Which why I think they push the envelope a lot, they have a safety net they depend on. Bugging out, not so much.

Personally, I think combining UL with some basic bushcraft is the way to go. If you're going to do without carrying backups or more bombproof but heavier gear...you better know how to improvise with natural materials (A-frame pack, lean to shelter, how to make fire without a stove or fuel).
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby derf26 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:19 am

pahwraith wrote:Personally, I think combining UL with some basic bushcraft is the way to go. If you're going to do without carrying backups or more bombproof but heavier gear...you better know how to improvise with natural materials (A-frame pack, lean to shelter, how to make fire without a stove or fuel).


Absolutely, skills are the ultimate gear because they weigh nothing and are always with you!

And by taking less gear while you're in relative safety (backpacking when people know where you are, you have a comms device, etc.) you're forced to practice more skills because you have less stuff to rely on.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby cbr900 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:24 am

Pretty good tips some guys take it to an extreme like a friend of mine when we go on a hiking trip he will use a ziplock bag as a pillow, only bring tabs no filter, one single paper towel, led bulb with watch battery, all food is powder the list goes on and on and every single last time we go he is trying to get me to let him use my filter or ask for food or something else.

The truly ironic thing is he is a good 20-30lbs overweight
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby Woods Walker » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:20 pm

derf26 wrote:Thanks Woods Walker, good tips!

Here's a really ultralight setup I've stumbled across.

Gatewood Cape


The Cape has a following but the bug liner/bivy, not so much. I have slept under my poncho before and this is a good way to save weight. But there are problems with using your rain gear for a shelter. Those occur to someone when they need to break or setup camp in the rain. Still I have done it and didn’t die.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby derf26 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:51 am

Woods Walker wrote:
derf26 wrote:Thanks Woods Walker, good tips!

Here's a really ultralight setup I've stumbled across.

Gatewood Cape


The Cape has a following but the bug liner/bivy, not so much. I have slept under my poncho before and this is a good way to save weight. But there are problems with using your rain gear for a shelter. Those occur to someone when they need to break or setup camp in the rain. Still I have done it and didn’t die.


Yeh, this is true. I wonder if there's a way to stake out the cape while still in it?

Oh, and what's wrong with the bug net? I was thinking of getting one instead of a regular bug bivy for my shangri-la 1.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby pahwraith » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:19 am

cbr900 wrote:The truly ironic thing is he is a good 20-30lbs overweight

This has crossed my mind I see the middle age sheguys on their carbon fiber bikes, I always think "Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and healthier to lose some of that beer belly?"
It becomes about bragging rights at some point. In the prepper community I think it swings the other way, it's more like "how much can I carry! Look how manly I am."

Anyway, what I respect the UL community is how they've mastered the art of cheap DIY dehydrated meals and using simple alcohol stoves. Not all of them take it to the extreme of powdered meal. Just look at this recipe http://www.trailcooking.com/recipes/tun ... cous-salad
No cooking required, all the ingredients could last in your pack for a year or two, easy and it just sounds like tasty eats. It's pretty genius.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby Gingersam » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:32 am

People pack to much redundancy in this forum.

The idea of 1 is none and 2 is one seriously makes your pack heavier. Buy good, well made items and look after them. Why do you need more than 1 quality knife that you look after? Same with torches and pretty much everything else.

And if it does break, you can live without it till you fix/replace it.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby coldshot » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:46 pm

pahwraith wrote:
cbr900 wrote:The truly ironic thing is he is a good 20-30lbs overweight

This has crossed my mind I see the middle age sheguys on their carbon fiber bikes, I always think "Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and healthier to lose some of that beer belly?"
It becomes about bragging rights at some point. In the prepper community I think it swings the other way, it's more like "how much can I carry! Look how manly I am."

Anyway, what I respect the UL community is how they've mastered the art of cheap DIY dehydrated meals and using simple alcohol stoves. Not all of them take it to the extreme of powdered meal. Just look at this recipe http://www.trailcooking.com/recipes/tun ... cous-salad
No cooking required, all the ingredients could last in your pack for a year or two, easy and it just sounds like tasty eats. It's pretty genius.


Some very good tips in this thread. It's all about balance, for example, I have a bad back, so a quality sleeping pad is important. I don't care how much it weighs, if I can't get a reasonably good night's sleep, I'm toast. And I have to ask, what is a sheguy? I've heard of shims (she/hims)....those are the tranny hookers that tape back their male bits and have fake bolt-ons. I don't see the connection to cycling.
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Re: Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

Postby scurvy » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:51 pm

Gingersam wrote:People pack to much redundancy in this forum.

The idea of 1 is none and 2 is one seriously makes your pack heavier. Buy good, well made items and look after them. Why do you need more than 1 quality knife that you look after? Same with torches and pretty much everything else.

And if it does break, you can live without it till you fix/replace it.



yup.... knowledge, and know how doesn't weigh a thing....


coldshot wrote:
what is a sheguy? I've heard of shims (she/hims)....those are the tranny hookers that tape back their male bits and have fake bolt-ons.


?!? bizarre.... ?!? I think 'bolt-ons' would add extra weight.. ( see : bushcraft )
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