J.O.E - Jog Out Energetically Bag

by **Carl M Neit** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:13 pm

A couple of years ago, someone on this forum posted about a J.O.E, or Jog Out Energetically bag. He was ostracized as most geniuses usually are as they are ahead of their time. Personally, I take my J.O.E. everywhere I go because my B.O.B. is too large to take to work, the grocery store, etc.

Everyones will probably be a little different but my basic principles are 4 Cliff bars, 4 packets of powerblocks, gatorade powder, fire starting gear, compass and local topographic maps (I always print ones for the area I will be in), emergency space blanket, wound dressing/protectant, 12 large rubber bands, Cold Steel Nightshade (fiberglass reinforced plastic knife), and New Balance Minimus trail running shoes. Its all stuffed into a small hydration pack that is filled with 3 liters of water.

I always keep it within arms reach of me and I can run with it for 3 miles in less than 19 minutes. Try to catch me carrying your B.O.B.

by **ninja-elbow** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:33 pm

You mean it's a GHB, Get Home Bag? I do not know of any ZS doctrine advocating EDCing a BOB. If an individual chooses to do so they can have at it. I don't even carry as much as your JOE.

by **Kelvar** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:16 pm

I remember that guy.
*If* he was ostracized, which I do not recall, I can assure you, it was not the result of his "genius." :roll:

I seem to remember other issues.

by **omega_man** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:33 pm

I can run with it for 3 miles in less than 19 minutes. Try to catch me carrying your B.O.B.

Ha! Can do.

BTW, I like the idea you're putting out there; but, this is not a competition. Save it for the gym. If you really want to impress us, do a full review, take some pics, and do a mock-get-home. I would add a contractor bag for some more lightweight versatility.

All I'm picturing in my head now is Forest Gump obliviously running full-speed thru a herd of zombies.

by **Carl M Neit** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:11 am

Not trying to impress, just disseminate and socialize new ideas. Its not a GHB, although it would be used as such if the situation dictated. In essence it is one of my two BOBs, it is lighter and less comprehensive than my perferred variant. Sometimes going home immediately is not the best idea and due to laws and others, I cannot carry my 65 liter/52.3 lb BOB everywhere or even keep in my vehicle at all times.

Simple principle is that I am always ready to bug out. In the case that I need to go fast and in a hurry, and don't have time to return home etc. I will be prepared.

More than the competitive connotations of my earlier post, I wanted to underly the usefulness of having only the necessities. he contractor bag would be a usefull shelter/water capture tool, I may replace some of the rubber bands with it... Thanks.

by **Jeriah** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:00 am

Whatever name or acronym we put on them, there are a few functional categories of kit.

First, there is what you carry on your body at all times. You don't leave it in the car, so it's usually in pockets or on a belt, but some people use a small man-purse. Whatever you choose to carry it in, this is what we usually mean by "EDC."

Then, there is a bag you have with you whenever you leave home, but not necessarily on your body. This could be a small backpack, or a shoulder bag. Whatever it is, this is the bag you have to get you FROM wherever you happen to be, TO home. You can leave it in the trunk of your car in case you break down, leave it in your office when you're at work, whatever. This is what we mean by a "GHB." Obviously you could use it to go somewhere other than home, if home is not an option.

Lastly, you've got a kit you keep at home, in case you evacuate from there. This is the largest of your kits, and is what many people call a BOB. Some people specify whether it's a 72 hour bag (for a short-term evacuation), or an INCH (I'm Never Coming Home) kit.

This may all seem obvious but it wasn't always obvious to me. So, it sounds to me like your JOE concept is basically just a variant of the GHB: you carry it with you, wherever you go, but may leave it in the office or trunk of the car rather than physically on your body at all times. I do see a sort of difference, though, in that you're thinking of it as a go-away-from-there rather than get-home-from-there kit, so I can see why you want to call it by a different name, to reflect this difference of intent. If calling it a JOE makes more sense to you, go for it.

Now, here's my caveat: unless you're going to carry two bags everywhere, one to get your home and one to run away with, whatever bag you're carrying needs to be adaptable to either possibility. If your neighborhood catches on fire, your "Get Home Bag" may become a de-facto JOE, whereas if there is some kind of plague or something, you may need to use your JOE to Get Home so you can shelter in place.

So, really, BOTH names are flawed. But GHB has priority (in that it's been in use longer), so we can either stick with it, or try to introduce a new standard, with predictable results.

http://xkcd.com/927/

by **BadIntel** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:15 am

Just curious, Carl.... what laws in your area would prevent you from carrying that BOB with you places, or even having it in your car? As long as there isn't anything illegal contained in the bag, I don't see why this would be a legal issue, versus just being impractical to carry such a large piece of gear everywhere...

by **Roger Brough** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:18 am

Carl, I like the idea, and I can see Pete's influence on you.

In a workshop I attended last year, there was a Swiss gentleman that carried a small, yellow backpack that was made out what appeared to be rubber. It was made by Victorinox, I believe. He said that he liked it because it was so easy to see. What's more, it carried only small and very essential items and he placed that little yellow bag inside of a larger green bag that he would carry for longer periods or trips, kind of like an E&E kit attached to a ruck. I looked for some time and eventually found one similiar that is practically waterproof. I credited the Swiss fellow when I named it, by putting emphasis on their poisonous flower. I call it the D.A.R.Y.L., for "Death Awaits Roger's Yellow Laburnum."

by **Carl M Neit** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:23 am

I am new to this forum; however, I have read a lot of posts. I don't believe there is any doctrine that must be followed to or a naming convention that has been agreed upon by all concerned. Consequently, it seems that there is significant room for discussion on the merits of ideas presented here. A simple example is the commonly agreed upon need for a fixed and folding knife in a BOB. I still have yet to read a concise and convincing arguement why one blade is not enough. Additionally, it is commonly thought that 25 loaded magazines in a semi-automatic "black" carbine is necessary along with tactical load bearing equipment and packs to carry it all. Why? I could provide dozens of reasons that some of the common "ZS Doctrine" is unfounded; however, I like the fact that people are preparing. The reason that I wont subscribe to the GHB concept can be summed up best in the following quote from the world's preeminent outdoor philosopher:

"Although home is relative, if a man cannot get there using only the contents of his mind and pockets, he should move."

~Peter S. Thompson

by **Carl M Neit** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:27 am

BadIntel wrote:Just curious, Carl.... what laws in your area would prevent you from carrying that BOB with you places, or even having it in your car? As long as there isn't anything illegal contained in the bag, I don't see why this would be a legal issue, versus just being impractical to carry such a large piece of gear everywhere...

As a Reserve USMC Sargent, you should know that there are Marine Corps Base Orders that supersede state laws pertaining to the storage and transportation of weapons, ammo, etc. Similar to this, many places where I travel for work impose similar laws.

by **BadIntel** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:44 am

Got it. I'm not trying to say that if it was legal in all places you should carry a BOB everywhere you go. That would just be impractical and silly, as that's what a GHB/EDC (or whatever other nomenclature/acronym you choose to utilize) is for. I was just unclear as to why your BOB might be illegal in some places. Thanks for the clarification!

by **TDW586** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:50 am

The word you're looking for is "Sergeant".

It sounds like you've got a nice kit. I'm putting together an ultralight kit for EDC right now, it's probably going to ride in a 20-24L climbing pack.

I'm not sure where you get the idea of what "ZS doctrine" is, or why you're convinced that people will be hostile to a light EDC kit.

by **Carl M Neit** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:08 pm

ninja-elbow wrote:You mean it's a GHB, Get Home Bag? I do not know of any ZS doctrine advocating EDCing a BOB. If an individual chooses to do so they can have at it. I don't even carry as much as your JOE.

TDW586 wrote:The word you're looking for is "Sergeant".

It sounds like you've got a nice kit. I'm putting together an ultralight kit for EDC right now, it's probably going to ride in a 20-24L climbing pack.

I'm not sure where you get the idea of what "ZS doctrine" is, or why you're convinced that people will be hostile to a light EDC kit.

My apologies, that spelling is correct. I work with a guy named "Sargent." I email him a lot and make that same mistake often.

Not necessarily hostile to a light kit rather a light kit with a different niche.

Anther concept I considered was a Container All Ready for Leaving (CARL). where its containers of gear that I openly leave at various locations where usually spend the majority of my time that I can grab on the way out.

by **TDW586** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:35 pm

Carl M Neit wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:You mean it's a GHB, Get Home Bag? I do not know of any ZS doctrine advocating EDCing a BOB. If an individual chooses to do so they can have at it. I don't even carry as much as your JOE.
TDW586 wrote:The word you're looking for is "Sergeant".

It sounds like you've got a nice kit. I'm putting together an ultralight kit for EDC right now, it's probably going to ride in a 20-24L climbing pack.

I'm not sure where you get the idea of what "ZS doctrine" is, or why you're convinced that people will be hostile to a light EDC kit.

My apologies, that spelling is correct. I work with a guy named "Sargent." I email him a lot and make that same mistake often.

Not necessarily hostile to a light kit rather a light kit with a different niche.

Anther concept I considered was a Container All Ready for Leaving (CARL). where its containers of gear that I openly leave at various locations where usually spend the majority of my time that I can grab on the way out.

I worked with a Lance Corporal Sargent, he EASed as Corporal Sergeant. He got no end of shit. :lol:

You really, really love acronyms, don't you?

I have a couple of different kits. What I refer to as my PSK (Personal Survival Kit) is currently in a Maxpedition canteen pouch. It consists of:

AMK Survival/Emergency Blanket
Contractor bags (2)
Platypus Platy Bottle (empty)
Aquamira Frontier Pro filter
Katadyn Micropur MP1 tablets
GSI stainless steel cup
ESEE Izula neck knife
Bic lighters (2)
50' of 550 cord
Bandanna (signal orange)
2 Snickers bars
Emergen-C powder (3)
Gatorade Propel powder (3)
AMK whistle
Glowsticks (4)
Petzl E-Light headlamp

This kit is mainly geared towards short term survival and rescue, with a lot of signalling equipment (mostly dual-use). I'm planning to modify it into a slightly longer term kit with the addition of a bit more food (I love Clif bars for these kits), a tarp and stakes, and a poncho liner. I also have a "BOB" in a Mystery Ranch 3-Day Assault Pack which is more of a conventional weekend/three day camping kit.

In addition, I do have several combat gear rigs, but they're not part of my "bug out" or survival kits.

by **BadIntel** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:48 pm

TDW, that is an epic name to join the military with for sure

Anyway, rather than coming up with an acronym for every different type of kit I might assemble (I have enough acronyms to remember being in the military), I personally would prefer to stick with the more generic EDC/GHB/BOB/INCH, as I find things get too complicated when you try to micromanage every detail. Not knocking your idea, I just like to stick with (another acronym! Lol) KISS, "keep it simple, stupid".

by **Roger Brough** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:51 pm

I have always preferred, "Keep it smart, simpleton."

by **Kelvar** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:52 pm

Yeah, I think some folks get too hung up on acronyms. As long as you have what you need, when you need it, that's the important thing.

And not everyone has the free time to go out and learn how to be all Jeremiah Johnson, so we prepare with that in mind.

Use whatever acronym you want, just be prepared and spread the word! 8-)

by **Roger Brough** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:59 pm

I agree. It's funny how some names kind of grow up with you though.

I can never approach or depart my property without thinking FOCPIG.

by **Carl M Neit** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:10 pm

I once met a Major Major. Rank/Name combinations are always good fun.

TDW: over the last few months I have been looking at putting together smaller kits that have the functionality I need for specific situations as the threats are almost limitless. I like your small canteen bag, would prove very useful in a survival situation. My JOE is very basic in my mind and the bag is an old jansport camelback with about 5-7L of storage. Most people haven't practiced surviving or living outdoors without modern ameneties for more than a day or two and don't know what they really need.

Once in Southeast Asia I lived with some Karen Refugees for a month in the jungle. I had only planned to be there a week but environmental issues prevented my departure. It would surprise people how little is required. One thing I wished I had more of was alcohol as bartering proved very lucrative.

On that, I have a winter bag that includes double plastics and crampons, that I call a CHAMP(Cold, High Altitude Mountain Pack).

by **KentsOkay** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:26 pm

You know, from a "everything I know is from action movies" standpoint, a JOE bag is a great idea. Bare essentials, light weight, and good for outrunning zombies, communists and lava flows. I have a hard time picturing a need to be running from a threat, but that doesn't mean I won't make a bag for it

by **Carl M Neit** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:49 pm

Like someone mentioned earlier about Forrest Gump, I run everywhere unless I drive or fly.

"Why walk, when you can run? Why run, when you can steal a horse? Why steal a horse if your neigbor drives a Prius?"

~Peter S. Thompson

by **BadIntel** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:03 pm

Carl M Neit wrote:"Why walk, when you can run? Why run, when you can steal a horse? Why steal a horse if your neigbor drives a Prius?"

~Peter S. Thompson

Ummmm...... Ok? Odd quote, and I don't think I agree with it....

by **Sheepdog-Z** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:08 pm

TDW586 wrote:It sounds like you've got a nice kit. I'm putting together an ultralight kit for EDC right now, it's probably going to ride in a 20-24L climbing pack.
....
....Petzl E-Light headlamp
....
In addition, I do have several combat gear rigs, but they're not part of my "bug out" or survival kits.

I'm considering a similar set up and wanted to see what you though of you'r e-light? I have a slightly heavier light for use with helmets, etc. -- have one of those e-lights on my wish list. I'm putting my kit together in one of those OR super light dry bag things -- the bright orange ones (unfortunate, I know, but easy to spot and I can always put a cover on it).

by **Roger Brough** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:17 pm

The e-lights are great. Buy two since as soon as you grow comfortable using it, you want to have one on you all of the time. Especially if you work outdooors. I like to have something in my gear that is bright, or blaze orange. In many survival situations, signalling can be extremely important.

“You always hear people say, ‘An eye for an eye’ but I say, ‘hell no.’ If you take an eye and then I get to take an eye, I am going to plunge my fingers in extra deep before popping your eye out of its socket.”
~Peter S. Thompson~