Useless BOB Items

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Useless BOB Items

Post by fourway » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:04 am

Roger Brough wrote:I will use a special sarcasm indicator next time for those that are not fluent. I believe it was Hiram Grant, in his autobiography (and perhaps the best non-fiction of that Century) that first said it, "An army may fight ON it's stomach, but it fights WITH its eyes." If you ever walk the ground at Waterloo you will understand it better.
You quite clearly waved the humor flag at the opening of the post by saying that you had "quadoculars" and implying that the lions share of your gear was optics. You probably could have inserted a blinking animated irony alert gif to little effect.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by bacpacjac » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:05 pm

moab wrote: But everyone should consider lightening their load some.... I think your thinking you'll only need your BOB in a natural disaster type situation where things will turn to normal in short order. I think the rest of us are not so optimistic. Or are at least planning a little more for the worse. And trying to make sure we get - every bang for our buck - out of what we carry.
This is where it gets tricky for me. Something akin to the "1 is none and 2 is 1" theory is always in the back of my mind, because you just never know. I have to ask myself "Why not just carry your INCH kit everywhere?"

I try to stay on middle ground by thinking about where I'm going to be, where I'm going to need to get and how long it's likely to take me get there. If I'm day hiking, I just need to get back to my JEEP, so BOB lives there and I should only need an overnight at most to get there. Once I'm at my JEEP, I just need to get home so BOB works as my GHB stock, which hopefully won't take more than a couple of days. Of course, BOB is also always ready to bug out from home. Once I'm home, I either need to jump into the JEEP to bug out for a few days or I can grab my INCH kit, which lives in the basement , for something more indefinite.

I try to choose the smallest and lightest items I can for each kit, while still being prepped with the most bang for my buck. Of course, my daypack always starts off ready for an unexpected overnight and then creeps in BOB territory, ready for up to 2 or 3 days, because I don't want to carry BOB everywhere. BOB starts with 3 days and then creeps into INCH territory, ready for up to a week or two, because I don't want to carry my INCH everywhere. :roll:
Last edited by bacpacjac on Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:29 pm

Roger Brough wrote:I will use a special sarcasm indicator next time for those that are not fluent. I believe it was Hiram Grant, in his autobiography (and perhaps the best non-fiction of that Century) that first said it, "An army may fight ON it's stomach, but it fights WITH its eyes." If you ever walk the ground at Waterloo you will understand it better.
The kids these days like their sarcastic funny in blue text is all, Rog. :wink:

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Roger Brough » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:49 pm

Thanks, but I must tell you that in the RWC, I cheered for England.
People put too much emphasis on ole’ Charlie Darwin’s theory about the survival of the fittest. It has produced a cottage industry of shake-weights, special-muscle-morphing powder drinks, and girly men that sell exercise videos. Not me.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by moab » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:13 pm

bacpacjac wrote:
moab wrote: But everyone should consider lightening their load some.... I think your thinking you'll only need your BOB in a natural disaster type situation where things will turn to normal in short order. I think the rest of us are not so optimistic. Or are at least planning a little more for the worse. And trying to make sure we get - every bang for our buck - out of what we carry.
This is where it gets tricky for me. Something akin to the "1 is none and 2 is 1" theory is always in the back of my mind, because you just never know. I have to ask myself "Why not just carry your INCH kit everywhere?"

I try to stay on middle ground by thinking about where I'm going to be, where I'm going to need to get and how long it's likely to take me get there. If I'm day hiking, I just need to get back to my JEEP, so BOB lives there and I should only need an overnight at most to get there. Once I'm at my JEEP, I just need to get home so BOB works as my GHB stock, which hopefully won't take more than a couple of days. Of course, BOB is also always being ready to bug out from home. Once I'm home, I either need to jump into the JEEP to bug out for a few days or I can gran my INCH kit, which lives in the basement , for something more indefinite.

I try to choose the smallest and lightest items I can for each kit, while still being prepped with the most bang for my buck. Of course, my daypack always starts off ready for an unexpected overnight and then creeps in BOB territory, ready for up to 2 or 3 days, because I don't want to carry BOB everywhere. BOB starts with 3 days and then creeps into INCH territory, ready for up to a week or two, because I don't want to carry my INCH everywhere. :roll:
The question I always ask myself. Is "How far away from home will I realize the true effects of whatever disaster has struck?". I can always dump stuff from my INCH bag if that's necessary. But I can't dump that which I do not have. And I can't add that which I do not have. (Unless I happen upon an abandoned REI in a PAW. Which is highly unlikely.)

The big weight items that will always be with me in an INCH bag are sleeping system, tent (or shelter), cold weather gear. The "disposable" weight is always the tools (knifes, axes, metal objects), water (containers), ammo (including firearms themselves), and food. I can always dump and buy more tools, water, ammo or food. If it's NOT really a PAW. Or I can bury them in a safe harbor site. And come back for them later. Same with the cold weather gear and the tent depending on the season. But I think I'd rather be dumping stuff in a harbor site. Than trying to find stuff I didn't bring.

This is to a point. I don't mean bring the kitchen sink just because you can carry it. Bring only that which you need in an INCH. Keep your weight to a minimum. I don't really see that much difference - weight wise - between a BOB and an INCH bag. Except for water, food, ammo and tools - the things that are disposable to a certain degree. The things that can be dumped. The other main items will always be with you - sleep system, shelter and cold weather gear. Which isn't anywhere near as heavy as the disposable items. The rest of the stuff is just small and lightweight. Or should be. FAK, fishing & snare kit, water filtration, ditty bag, fire kit, navigation, and electronics.

If I'm leaving in my SUV the INCH bag is definitely going with me. Because weight is not a concern. Heck it would probably mean my INCH and a whole bunch of other stuff on top of it. Since my SUV can carry plenty of emergency gear, water and rations. And if I can't leave in my car. I would think whatever disaster - if it makes car travel impossible - must be of a magnitude that would indicate an INCH bag. Except if you were at work. You certainly can't carry an INCH bag to your work. Although I would assume there would be nothing wrong with keeping an INCH bag in your car. With possibly the exception of ammo and firearms. Although properly stowed I don't know why you couldn't. But again, your still in a situation where you can dump stuff from your INCH and create a BOB. In the event of a BOB type disaster.

I would argue that your better off keeping a packed INCH bag. And keeping an empty BOB with it. Then you can simply leave what you don't need in your INCH and pack your BOB accordingly. Again, the main differences between your INCH and your BOB being simply the main weight/disposable items - tools, water, ammo & food. And when I say "disposable" I don't mean throwing all of it away. It simply means those items that can be thinned out. Although arms and ammo could be dumped entirely in certain BOB type situations.

And besides, it's an argument for buying more gear. And you know you want to buy more gear. ;)

Seriously though. I don't know how you'd be able to tell in advance whether you'll end up in an INCH type situation or a BOB type situation? So why not pack the INCH. And downgrade it to a BOB. Should the need arise. At least then your prepared for whatever may befall you. Even in a BOB type situation you could find yourself homeless (Home destroyed by the natural disaster. But the world still in tact.) and really need an INCH amount of stuff with you. You could drop your arms and tools with friendlies or leave them safely stowed in your vehicle. Leaving you with just what you need - shelter, water, food, clothing, and ditty bag.

I think if your not preparing an INCH your not preparing for everything that could happen. A BOB may get you half way there. But you can't add what you don't have. The zombies can come people. It's real! ;)

My apologies to the OP for hijacking your thread. My morning coffee has not betrayed me in the slightest. ;) Perhaps we should split this off into a new thread "BOB or INCH or both?". I'll do that now. As a matter fact. Again, my apologies.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by ninja-elbow » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:22 pm

Re one is none et al:

A way to lighten your load and not compromise this is to rethink the item into a concept. For example -

Bic lighter. It makes a flame. Carry 2 as one is none...

or

Bic lighter. Fire Craft. Carry one and a ferro rod - you now have 2 ways to start a fire.

People tend to take the one is none concept too literally.
Pistol = pistol
or
Pistol = self defence concept

A lot of times you can build redundancy with skill as opposed to material item. Skill sets, experience, and knowledge of fundamentals is weightless.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Lynn LeFey » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:54 pm

Some people also miss that even if a lighter is out of fuel, it's still throws sparks nicely. A little firecraft and reliable sparks can go a long way.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by ninja-elbow » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:25 pm

Lynn LeFey wrote:Some people also miss that even if a lighter is out of fuel, it's still throws sparks nicely. A little firecraft and reliable sparks can go a long way.
Fuzz ball off your sock will light right up from a Bic spark 8-)
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Roger Brough » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:37 pm

After about a week out on your own, a great deal of tinder can be found in the belly button.
People put too much emphasis on ole’ Charlie Darwin’s theory about the survival of the fittest. It has produced a cottage industry of shake-weights, special-muscle-morphing powder drinks, and girly men that sell exercise videos. Not me.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Lynn LeFey » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:51 pm

Roger Brough wrote:After about a week out on your own, a great deal of tinder can be found in the belly button.
:lol:

Gross... but funny.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by bacpacjac » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:06 pm

ninja-elbow wrote:Re one is none et al:

A way to lighten your load and not compromise this is to rethink the item into a concept. For example -

Bic lighter. It makes a flame. Carry 2 as one is none...

or

Bic lighter. Fire Craft. Carry one and a ferro rod - you now have 2 ways to start a fire.

People tend to take the one is none concept too literally.
Pistol = pistol
or
Pistol = self defence concept

A lot of times you can build redundancy with skill as opposed to material item. Skill sets, experience, and knowledge of fundamentals is weightless.
Sorry for dragging the thread too far off topic, but thanks WW. This is the biggest challenge I (think) I have at the moment. Everything keeps growing, getting bigger and heavier. But I'm slowly learning. THANK YOU for sharing your wisdom and helping me along my path!
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by bacpacjac » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:12 pm

Lynn LeFey wrote:Some people also miss that even if a lighter is out of fuel, it's still throws sparks nicely. A little firecraft and reliable sparks can go a long way.
Right you are, Lynn! Add a little birch bark and pine pitch and viola! Your "Oh shit!" Moment turns into a campfire!
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by ninja-elbow » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:55 pm

bacpacjac wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:Re one is none et al:

A way to lighten your load and not compromise this is to rethink the item into a concept. For example -

Bic lighter. It makes a flame. Carry 2 as one is none...

or

Bic lighter. Fire Craft. Carry one and a ferro rod - you now have 2 ways to start a fire.

People tend to take the one is none concept too literally.
Pistol = pistol
or
Pistol = self defence concept

A lot of times you can build redundancy with skill as opposed to material item. Skill sets, experience, and knowledge of fundamentals is weightless.
Sorry for dragging the thread too far off topic, but thanks WW. This is the biggest challenge I (think) I have at the moment. Everything keeps growing, getting bigger and heavier. But I'm slowly learning. THANK YOU for sharing your wisdom and helping me along my path!
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:16 pm

re·dun·dant   [ri-duhn-duhnt] adjective
1.characterized by verbosity or unnecessary repetition in expressing ideas; prolix: a redundant style.
2.being in excess; exceeding what is usual or natural: a redundant part.
3.having some unusual or extra part or feature.
4.characterized by superabundance or superfluity: lush, redundant vegetation.
5.Engineering .
a.(of a structural member) not necessary for resisting statically determined stresses.
b.(of a structure) having members designed to resist other than statically determined stresses; hyperstatic.
c.noting a complete truss having additional members for resisting eccentric loads. Compare complete ( def. 8 ) , incomplete ( def. 3 ) .
d.(of a device, circuit, computer system, etc.) having excess or duplicate parts that can continue to perform in the event of malfunction of some of the parts.


From the prepping standpoint, redundant items, or redundancy, does not always mean having duplicate items- ie; 2 Bic lighters instead of just 1. As Ninja Elbow pointed out, looking at the items as a concept, instead of as an item alone, allows you to create redundancy without duplication, as in 5c;...'having additional members for resisting eccentric loads', where the eccentric load is whatever bad luck, bad weather, or simple circumstance happens to throw at you. Look at each item as a WAY of doing a task, or serving a function, and your next iteration of that can be another method of accomplishing the same result, like the fire steel as a redundancy to the Bic lighter, and a pack of waterproof, windproof matches as a redundancy to that, etc., etc.

A redundant pair of warm socks would be like definition 5d, where duplication serves as the backup version of the primary. The trick is in managing to cover your bases, without falling into definition 1, ie; "unnecessary repetition". After all, how many cast iron frying pans can one carry for deer hunting? :lol:

Definition 3 would be along the lines of a multi tool versus a folding knife- both have a folding knife blade, but the multi tool extends your capabilities by providing those extra parts or features, ie; can opener, nail file, saw blade, etc. Following this line of thought, you can replace existing items in your pack that do single tasks, with a combination tool that covers the functions of two or more items already owned. Replacing a small shovel, an axe, and a machete with an e-tool that can do duty as any of the tools it replaces, lightening your load without lightening your pocket TOO much, and without giving up the functionality of the tools you have removed.

I myself try to keep equipment that serves at least two functions, whenever possible, for this very reason. Sometimes, this simply isn't possible- the matches I listed above, for example- they don't serve as much other than what they are- matches. But, the walking sticks my fiancee and I use, can double as tent poles, ponchos can double as a tent- the only real limits are those that exist in your imagination. You just need to avoid trying to have a tool do TOO much- every additional function is an additional way it can fail. Weigh your options, and your gear, and decide what fits your needs best.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by bacpacjac » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:22 pm

ninja-elbow wrote:
"Ninja-Elbow", not Woods Walker. He's more experienced than me anyways. 8-)
So sorry. I get your posts mixed up sometimes. Need to double check before I respond. :( You're both gurus, from this rookies's perspective!

In the short time I've been here, I've sort of morphed you two inoo one uber zombie warrior...

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by jehicks87 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:00 am

greenbeetle wrote:
TacAir wrote:LOL

The twenty full magazines of ammo and such?

If I may ask the OP - what drives your question? BOB contents seem to be a personal choice, after all.
The bag goes from a manageable weight of 25lbs to over 40 lbs [...]
If one can't hump 40 lbs of gear indefinitely, they need to start the "preparations" with your first-line shelter and gear. (your body) Now, I want to caveat that by saying, this is not me being snotty. You NEED to condition your body to survive the unexpected. Period.

I agree that 40 lbs is overkill for a 3-4 day scenario, but I personally see a 3-4 day scenario where most ANYTHING one would find in a bob as the least likely anyone in the USA is going to encounter. If riots/civil disorder/terrorist attack/hurricane katrina/zombies come, I am not going to be bugging out until I have to leave for a truly unknown amount of time. If my house catches fire, I won't need anything a "typical" bob could offer. Clothes, cash, my CCW, and a few documents are needed in that instance... not a single knife, mulitool, or strip of gauze would be utilized to check into a hotel or stay at a friends house.
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Useless BOB Items

Post by ico » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:48 am

If you don't have the time, can a clif bar be a meal replacement? Not for all meals but just that one time when you can't afford to prepare one.

Are they any energy bar you prefer aside from clif bars(assuming you like it)

And last one, how long is the expiry date of a new clif bar?

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by MichaelM » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:34 am

ico wrote:If you don't have the time, can a clif bar be a meal replacement? Not for all meals but just that one time when you can't afford to prepare one.
Sure. Sometimes if I'm busy at work, I'll have a Clif Bar instead of lunch. I wouldn't want to do it all the time, especially if I were doing something physically strenuous. They're filling enough, but I burn through the calories in a couple of hours if I'm out hiking or such.
ico wrote:Are they any energy bar you prefer aside from clif bars(assuming you like it)
Honestly, anything that tastes good that isn't all sugar works fine. I've found that bars with protein and fat in them work well enough if you keep your calorie intake sufficient to balance out whatever you're doing. I've got a couple of granola type bars that have a good protein content, and they're in the 120-150 calorie range (depending on which bar), so if I'm out day-hiking, I'll eat one every couple of hours to keep my energy up.
ico wrote:And last one, how long is the expiry date of a new clif bar?
They say on them. The expiration date pretty typically seems to fall something like 6-8 months from when I buy them, but that's not a definite rule that always applies; sometimes it's more and sometimes it's less.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by omega_man » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:17 pm

Sportsmans Guide has somehow found the cave where Zubaz pants have been hiding in since the early '90's

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/z ... x?a=956672

Definitely useless BOB items (and ECD, GHB, opposite sex attractant, etc...)

I'm sorry, it made me laugh :D

But, I do feel the strange urge to listen to MC Hammer...
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by ninja-elbow » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:23 pm

omega_man wrote:Sportsmans Guide has somehow found the cave where Zubaz pants have been hiding in since the early '90's

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/z ... x?a=956672

Definitely useless BOB items (and ECD, GHB, opposite sex attractant, etc...)

I'm sorry, it made me laugh :D

But, I do feel the strange urge to listen to MC Hammer...
Jeezus...

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by moab » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:43 pm

That's it. I'm dumping ACU for Zubaz!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by omega_man » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:59 pm

moab wrote:That's it. I'm dumping ACU for Zubaz!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We all knew you would come around :D
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Useless BOB Items

Post by Winston Smith » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:00 pm

moab wrote:That's it. I'm dumping ACU for Zubaz!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They were good enough for Snake Plissken, and I'd trust him before Natick Labs any day
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by moab » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:06 pm

omega_man wrote:
moab wrote:That's it. I'm dumping ACU for Zubaz!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We all knew you would come around :D
LMFAO!!! I made that joke just for you. Makes me laugh.
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