Useless BOB Items

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by ninja-elbow » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:09 am

Lynn LeFey wrote:Anyone care to weigh in on binoculars in a BOB? I know they have use, just not sure how much in a BOB.
I carry a monocular in my woods kit and binos in my truck. Nothing like that in either of my BOBs. Got me thinking though.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by ninja-elbow » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:15 am

Fishing and trapping kits? Yeah, I'm bugging out, not living off the fat-o-the-land.

Silver? If society collapses to such a point that money does not matter anymore in 3-5 days... NOTHING in a bug out bag will help you let alone silver.

Usual caveat: BOB = a kit allowing you to surive 72 hours post disaster with no access to your normal facilities.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:30 am

ninja-elbow wrote:
Lynn LeFey wrote:Anyone care to weigh in on binoculars in a BOB? I know they have use, just not sure how much in a BOB.
I carry a monocular in my woods kit and binos in my truck. Nothing like that in either of my BOBs. Got me thinking though.
I have my rather decent set of 7 x 50 binoculars as a not currently in the bag but will get grabbed in the event of a bug out dealio.

Viewing from afar is handy if you're on foot and looking to get somewhere safe.

---

I like the idea of a small fishing kit in a survival kit in a bug out bag, like the set up where you can use a nalgene as the handline reel, not neccessarily a large kit.

In a hiking bag though? Definitely.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Roger Brough » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:40 am

Quadocular here. Bino's, and several other telescopic devices.

People throughout history have made this really big deal about "an army fighting on its stomach."
Ceasar, Napoleon, etc.
And where are they now? That's right.......dead.

An army fights with its eyes.
People put too much emphasis on ole’ Charlie Darwin’s theory about the survival of the fittest. It has produced a cottage industry of shake-weights, special-muscle-morphing powder drinks, and girly men that sell exercise videos. Not me.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Guy Fawkes » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:44 pm

Roger Brough wrote:People throughout history have made this really big deal about "an army fighting on its stomach."
Ceasar, Napoleon, etc.
And where are they now? That's right.......dead.
What?!
Google voluntaryism.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by moab » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:25 pm

I do have fishing stuff in my inch kit. But unless it's the ocean I'm using auto reels to set and forget. And besides the reels it takes up one small 4x4 plastic bag.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Carl M Neit » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:07 pm

I keep a jar of Vegemite in my BOB. I hate the way it tastes so much, I don't think I could eat it unless I was seriously starving. Its also good for catching grasshoppers, another food item I don't like very much, although if you fry them in blubber, they don't taste half bad.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:16 pm

Carl M Neit wrote:I keep a jar of Vegemite in my BOB. I hate the way it tastes so much, I don't think I could eat it unless I was seriously starving. Its also good for catching grasshoppers, another food item I don't like very much, although if you fry them in blubber, they don't taste half bad.
Haha, I'm Australian and I'd rather pack Peanut Butter. The toast to butter to vegemite ratio for success is far too extreme to make packing that much bread and butter practical for a whole jar of Vegemite. Good source of salt and complex vitamin b though. Goes nice in Damper or Bannock too I guess but a whole jar? :shock:

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^A "2 serve" sachet is more than plenty IMHO. :lol:

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Carl M Neit » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:23 pm

In the USA we are lucky to find Vegemite so no choice of brands/sizes. We take what we can get, which happens to be an 8 oz jar... I've also heard that its good bait for catfish.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by MichaelM » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:47 pm

Guy Fawkes wrote:
Roger Brough wrote:People throughout history have made this really big deal about "an army fighting on its stomach."
Ceasar, Napoleon, etc.
And where are they now? That's right.......dead.
What?!
Obviously he's implying that they died after successful military careers because they kept their armies well fed. And that's somehow bad... Because... binoculars...

Wait. What the fuck IS he talking about?

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:53 pm

MichaelM wrote:
Guy Fawkes wrote:
Roger Brough wrote:People throughout history have made this really big deal about "an army fighting on its stomach."
Ceasar, Napoleon, etc.
And where are they now? That's right.......dead.
What?!
Obviously he's implying that they died after successful military careers because they kept their armies well fed. And that's somehow bad... Because... binoculars...

Wait. What the fuck IS he talking about?
Clearly he is saying that a rock or something is a useless BOB item if you have optics, STA, drones and HUMINT. :wink:

I thought it was funny, Roger Brough.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by MadMichigander13 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:00 am

ninja-elbow wrote:I considered the same points and determined that for my emergency rations (BOB kits and the like) lifeboat rations would be fine. Not so much for hiking though. If I'm humping the 5.5 miles across wrecked bridges from work to home due to an earthquake, I am just looking for calories to help me so rations, candy, a bit of jerky and tea will suffice. If I'm recreating on the Deschuttes, I'll take something different - and thus a ton more crap in my ruck :shock:

More in line with the subject though: I've seen people pack small cast iron pans and skillets. "You never know when you might take a deer and need to cook up the venison."
I figure I will have a small 'grill' to cook over a campfire, a small pocket stove when a campfire is not wise, a backpack cooking set; so I can 'live off the land' since it may be more than 3 days. Also, I have bought the Datex rations for situations where foraging/hunting is not available/possible, but plan to suppliment them wth GNC vitamin packs. From what I've heard, you want to chew them thouroughly and drink lots of water so you don't get a bowel obstruction. I bought a lot of the Skorr rice and noodle dishes (freezedried), as well as SPAM and StarKist foil-pack tuna. They seem to be the most logical improvised rations. MREs may be light, but they are also very bulky.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by MadMichigander13 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:06 am

Guy Fawkes wrote:
Roger Brough wrote:People throughout history have made this really big deal about "an army fighting on its stomach."
Ceasar, Napoleon, etc.
And where are they now? That's right.......dead.
What?!
I think the point was stressing the value of logistics to an army. Ceasar was killed by a group of Roman Senators. Napolean died on Elba Island as an exile after being defeated by Wellington. And everyone enevitably winds up in the 'dead' condition, an inescapable aspect of being human and mortal.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by fourway » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:16 am

ninja-elbow wrote:More in line with the subject though: I've seen people pack small cast iron pans and skillets. "You never know when you might take a deer and need to cook up the venison."
It's really hard to get a deer to stay still long enough or get close enough to hit it with a cast iron frying pan.
But if you could... I suppose a well aimed whallop or two with a sturdy cast iron pan might do the trick.
Of course then you'd be stuck with no way to cook it... you wouldn't want to tie up your pan... what if another deer came along?
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:22 am

fourway wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:More in line with the subject though: I've seen people pack small cast iron pans and skillets. "You never know when you might take a deer and need to cook up the venison."
It's really hard to get a deer to stay still long enough or get close enough to hit it with a cast iron frying pan.
But if you could... I suppose a well aimed whallop or two with a sturdy cast iron pan might do the trick.
Of course then you'd be stuck with no way to cook it... you wouldn't want to tie up your pan... what if another deer came along?
:lol:

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:32 am

fourway wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:More in line with the subject though: I've seen people pack small cast iron pans and skillets. "You never know when you might take a deer and need to cook up the venison."
It's really hard to get a deer to stay still long enough or get close enough to hit it with a cast iron frying pan.
But if you could... I suppose a well aimed whallop or two with a sturdy cast iron pan might do the trick.
Of course then you'd be stuck with no way to cook it... you wouldn't want to tie up your pan... what if another deer came along?
First of all, I can see you've never set up a deer stand in a tree as an ambush site. You drop down ONTO the deer, straddle them with your legs, as you whale the crap out of their head, being careful not to ruin the trophy antlers, of course. Screaming a scary war cry at the top of your lungs helps- it throws the deer off balance for a moment, giving you the opportunity to strike.

Second, the ringing of a cast iron pan has always been genetically instilled as a danger sound for deer, so the chance at a second deer would rely on it being deaf, incredibly stupid, or both. The up-side is, you can still EAT stupid/deaf deer.

Third, being the voracious carnivores they are, and cannibals at that, deer are actually ATTRACTED to the smell of frying venison, so the concerns over smacking the second deer while cooking the first are quite valid, and should be dealt with by carrying a back-up piece; the cast iron dutch oven and lid.

Also, I would suggest a wrist strap, or thong through the handle, so you don't lose your weaponized frying pan- making it from deerskin leather lends a pleasant sense of irony to it.


Also, any frying pan under 12" in diameter has no place in a kitchen, let alone a SURVIVAL situation.
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Lynn LeFey » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:55 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:making it from deerskin leather lends a pleasant sense of irony to it.
Well... that is just plain awesome.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by greenbeetle » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:25 am

ninja-elbow wrote:
Cu Chulainn wrote:
5.) ID packet. In the political climate we live in (sorry can't ignore this), you need to have ID. Driver's license, or State ID, SS card, maybe even a certified copy of your birth certificate and passport (if you have one), copy of your concealed carry permit if you have one, perhaps even a second credit card. Not ID, but you may want to have a paper with important names, numbers and addresses in it.
I'd like to reiterate this, and the lack there of seen in many BOBs. It sure would be nice to make it up into the next nearest town with open and operating banks and be able to pull some cash out. You may have ditched your house quickly and not grabbed your wallet. At many Red Cross stations after a disaster lap tops will be set up for you to begin insurance claims. Better have basic insurance info on you. How many of us, with cell phone and one click calling, remember phone numbers? What about addresses? You lose your phone, you lose that info.

One 3x5 card with a few numbers and addresses on it can save your day.

This is fantastic advice. Thank you.

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by greenbeetle » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:11 am

moab wrote:
But everyone should consider lightening their load some. By simply throwing in some form of lighter weight survival food. You'll move faster by having less to carry. Which is a main concern of any hike/travel. Emergency or not. But especially in an emergency. Your not going to want to be humping around a heavy load. And if you can avoid it. Take some of the boat rations. It may be what keeps you alive that extra day or two you need to get where you need to get. I think your thinking you'll only need your BOB in a natural disaster type situation where things will turn to normal in short order. I think the rest of us are not so optimistic. Or are at least planning a little more for the worse. And trying to make sure we get - every bang for our buck - out of what we carry.

Amen. Less weight = less calories expended = less water required = less food and water you must carry or find.

I tried to calculate differences in calorie expenditures based on the weight of a backpack. I started by calculating joules then converting that to nutritional calories but there are too many problems stemming from starting/stopping, speed of travel, incline, changing metabolism, differing mechanical efficiency, varying technique, type of food consumed, etc. The most accurate calculations out there seem to be based on MET scores and duration of activity but METs are fairly nonspecific to the activity and any extra weigh carried.

I think doing indirect calorimetry on someone (where O2 use is measured and expelledCO2 is measured) to measure actual calories burned during a given activity is probably the only reasonably accurate measure. I bet the army has done this...

Here's a study on walking with direct calorimetry that made me laugh outloud:http://arno.unimaas.nl/show.cgi?fid=1654

There are accelerometers scientists are using for calculating energy expenditure in place of indirect calorimetry - I wonder what sort of equations they use. Here's one for sale http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/44/4/245.abstract. I suppose there are accelerometers on iphones too...

My calculated results (certianly worthless) suggested an increased need of 25 calories per 15lbs of weight carried per mile. So 5 miles with 15 lbs is and additional 125 calories expended over what you would normally expend hiking that distance. 45 lbs of weight for 5 miles would be an additional 375 calories. Again, I doubt that is accurate but it is submitted as food for thought.

Now, how to translate calories burned into water needed...

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Carl M Neit » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:22 am

I always found this useful when packing for anything:

"In life, the things we need are determined by what we do not have, and what we have determines that which we do not need."

~Peter S. Thompson
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Roger Brough » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:30 am

That really is great. I can see that you have attended one of Pete's classes.

“In a lawless society there is no justice. There are only scavengers, and thieves, the unjust and the sweetly singing crack of my whip.”
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People put too much emphasis on ole’ Charlie Darwin’s theory about the survival of the fittest. It has produced a cottage industry of shake-weights, special-muscle-morphing powder drinks, and girly men that sell exercise videos. Not me.
See, this here is the 1911.”

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Carl M Neit » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:42 am

Roger Brough wrote:That really is great. I can see that you have attended one of Pete's classes.

“In a lawless society there is no justice. There are only scavengers, and thieves, the unjust and the sweetly singing crack of my whip.”
~Peter S. Thompson~
The world is a small place. I attended a two day class in Northern California in 2008. It was the most enlightening event of my life. I would almost do anything to get him to come to the Mid Atlantic region to share his wisdom.

"Power is knowledge."

~ Peter S. Thompson
"John asked me, 'why did you like dive training so much?' I replied, 'diving is the perpetual, concious act of survival. If you forget to survive for even a minute underwater, you will die.'"

~ Peter S. Thompson ~

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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Merovech » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:07 am

MadMichigander13 wrote:
Guy Fawkes wrote:
Roger Brough wrote:People throughout history have made this really big deal about "an army fighting on its stomach."
Ceasar, Napoleon, etc.
And where are they now? That's right.......dead.
What?!
I think the point was stressing the value of logistics to an army. Ceasar was killed by a group of Roman Senators. Napolean died on Elba Island as an exile after being defeated by Wellington. And everyone enevitably winds up in the 'dead' condition, an inescapable aspect of being human and mortal.
Never let history and fact get in the way of a bad analogy! LOL

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think public schools teach kids that Caesar invented Pizza and Napoleon invented dynamite.

Kids these days... :roll:
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Re: Useless BOB Items

Post by Roger Brough » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:48 am

I will use a special sarcasm indicator next time for those that are not fluent. I believe it was Hiram Grant, in his autobiography (and perhaps the best non-fiction of that Century) that first said it, "An army may fight ON it's stomach, but it fights WITH its eyes." If you ever walk the ground at Waterloo you will understand it better.
People put too much emphasis on ole’ Charlie Darwin’s theory about the survival of the fittest. It has produced a cottage industry of shake-weights, special-muscle-morphing powder drinks, and girly men that sell exercise videos. Not me.
See, this here is the 1911.”

~Peter S. Thompson”

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