Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Zaper » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:29 pm

raging wrote:I bought 2 Large alice pack. One of camping and one for BOB. I'm going to use the LA Police gear 3day pack as a daypack.
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Both Alice Packs looks very nice and in very good condition.

Where do you bought it?

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Rednex » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:38 pm

I saw this pack at Sportsman Guild last night. My first thought was Kelty mad a hellcat/alice type pack and i kinda want one.

Because i cant copy the pictuer heres a link:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/k ... x?a=911651" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Its not cheap but its not too spendy.

Also with your alice packs have you given any thought to modding one or both into the hellcat configuration?
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Re: Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by mmaiolo81 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:29 pm

Pelagius wrote:I have been looking at those too. Where can one get one of those frames? The website looks to be not working and everyone I have seen seems to be out of stock.

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I'm not too sure... Have seen tons of plusses to it tho, maybe Ebay...

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Edit for spelling...
Last edited by mmaiolo81 on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by mmaiolo81 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:35 pm

Rednex wrote:...Also with your alice packs have you given any thought to modding one or both into the hellcat configuration?
I got mine in a hellcat, and while it's nice, I feel I completely overload it what I use the MSS... Handy if I needed to carry a big sleeping bag but I find I get by just fine with a Woobie(poncho liner)... Just my 2 cents on it...

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Pelagius » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:44 pm

Mmai only found one listing and it says he only has three left. Also found another guy that sells the molle II straps and belt pretty reasonable.

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by greenbeetle » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:00 pm

praharin wrote:
greenbeetle wrote:But to the authorities. I can see them scrutinizing folks with more military styled looking bags more than others.
Please explain this line of reasoning. It makes no sense to me (and does not line up with my experience) that LE would give someone a hard time just for the type of bag they are carrying.


A wiser man that I once (way more) said, "Communication is a survival skill." You need to know how to talk to people. LE are people too, and most are actually pretty reasonable. It you're truly worried about the LE in your area targeting you in a bug out situation; move. Move right now. Tonight if you can, because you are in a town devoid of constitutional freedom.

I didn't say they would give you a hard time. In a hi-stress situation police officers identify threats and sources of danger, right? Given we make nearly a hundred judgements about a person within the first 3 seconds of seeing them for the first time under normal conditions, I wonder what types of judgements and LEO would make if they saw someone Camo'd and Ammo'd out during a disaster scenario. They might flag that person, subconsciously or otherwise, as more likely to have a firearm or weapon than the guy next to him with a red Jansport hip-pack wearing girl's jeans and iphone earbuds. I could be wrong.

I have nothing against LEOs, btw, I have several LEO friends.

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Re: Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by mmaiolo81 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:59 pm

Pelagius wrote:Mmai only found one listing and it says he only has three left. Also found another guy that sells the molle II straps and belt pretty reasonable.

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I got the hellcat on frame, mounted, with molle straps and belt to my door for 63 bucks... looking into the 1606AC... going on a MBO jan 6 to 8 and after that 35 mi with 40lbs of gear I'll figure out whether I want/need the 1606 or need to reconsider my pack entirely... I REALLY recomend the MOLLE reguardless...

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by raging » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:13 pm

Zaper wrote:
raging wrote:I bought 2 Large alice pack. One of camping and one for BOB. I'm going to use the LA Police gear 3day pack as a daypack.
Image
Both Alice Packs looks very nice and in very good condition.

Where do you bought it?
They're both on ebay. The one on the left is in new condition which I bought for $30 + $16 priority mail shipping, and the one on the right is slightly used and i bought for $10 + $15 shipping charge.

I'm a small guy so the ALICE pack fits me perfectly. I know a lot of taller people don't like it because it doesn't carry well on their shoulder & hip.

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by raging » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:18 pm

Rednex wrote:I saw this pack at Sportsman Guild last night. My first thought was Kelty mad a hellcat/alice type pack and i kinda want one.

Because i cant copy the pictuer heres a link:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/k ... x?a=911651" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Its not cheap but its not too spendy.

Also with your alice packs have you given any thought to modding one or both into the hellcat configuration?
I thought about it a lot when I was deciding whether to get the large or medium pack and settled with large. It cost almost twice as much to get the medium pack/shoulder strap/hip belt/sleeping carrier.

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:34 am

So much ALICE hate. I rucked one all over my last AO with 30-50lb on shit in/on it depending on the mission. It worked better than the ILBE Main (not enough stuff to keep it from flopping) and the ILBE Assault (too much shit) and I loved it for what it did. 23+ km of Southern Afghanistan on the regular. Packs are a personalized thing, like every other piece of gear.

The reason I reccomend dry-bags over or in addition to a water-treatment is that dry bags/MAC sacks will make a 25lb load float with a 200lb Marine, his kevlar, rifle, and flak jacket on top of it. Again, that's 25lb of clothes and other gear and one MAC sack in an ILBE assault pack (the camo book-bag) with a fully dressed Marine, his flak with SAPI plates, his kevlar, and a rifle floating across the top of the water. THe struggle for said Marine is not staying afloat, but rather trying to perch atop the pack without falling off.

Now imagine what you could do with 2 dry-bags and an ALICE ruck, if you had to cross water? Also, the ALICE isn't a particularly weatherproof pack to begin with, as far as the placement of the flaps and other holes. Even if I had a completely sealed up pack, I'd still pack my MAC sacks.
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Kutter_0311 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:03 am

Doc Torr wrote:Now imagine what you could do with 2 dry-bags and an ALICE ruck, if you had to cross water? Also, the ALICE isn't a particularly weatherproof pack to begin with, as far as the placement of the flaps and other holes. Even if I had a completely sealed up pack, I'd still pack my MAC sacks.
Having swim-qual'ed with Ol' ALICE, she floats damn well. Dunno how those new-fangled MAC sacks work, but gallon Ziploc bags sure did the trick in my day. BTW, the 1606AC rocks my socks. Jump on that upgrade at DEI's web store.
JAYNE COBB wrote: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by mmaiolo81 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:09 am

Kutter_0311 wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:Now imagine what you could do with 2 dry-bags and an ALICE ruck, if you had to cross water? Also, the ALICE isn't a particularly weatherproof pack to begin with, as far as the placement of the flaps and other holes. Even if I had a completely sealed up pack, I'd still pack my MAC sacks.
Having swim-qual'ed with Ol' ALICE, she floats damn well. Dunno how those new-fangled MAC sacks work, but gallon Ziploc bags sure did the trick in my day. BTW, the 1606AC rocks my socks. Jump on that upgrade at DEI's web store.
I think you were the first post I came across preachin it... Since then I've been back and forth... I like the hard frame for airflow in Florida, but I'll know after the first weekend in Jan when I do a lenghty backpacking trip... if it screws me up too bad, I'll surely figure out how to get my hands on a 1606...

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Re: Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by catalyst » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:40 am

mmaiolo81 wrote:
catalyst wrote:I'm sill a fan of my kelty map 3500. Those alice packs are horrible. Huge, but horrible.
Not too bad with the MOLLEII straps and belt... Thinking of getting the 1606AC frame...

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but at this point, you've built an entirely new pack. i used my large alice pack w/frame for a 15 mile snowshoe trip, because i wanted the pack space for food, since it was winter. That pack - oh boy, it was horrible. it didnt matter how much i adjusted it, it couldn't be made comfortable. From the weights some of you humped - i certainly didn't overload the pack, it just didn't balance well and the straps and belt were also less than great. I felt like every time I turned, the pack kept wanting to turn, if I stretched, the pack wanted to drop me. It was like a green blob on my back sitting 2 feet out into space behind me. However, it survived the trip. I'm sure it also survived Korea, Vietnam, nuclear blast testing, and I'm pretty sure it'll outlast me - actually if I continue to use it, I'm positive it'll outlast me...

I put my gear through quite a bit of abuse, and take a few trips a year. The alice is cheap. That's about all I can say about it. Like most of us, I've also head they can be good with heavy modification, but the same can be said of anything...

It's no lie when we say that the pack can hold a lot of stuff. If $ is an issue and you need the space, the alice is a backbreaking steal of a deal. Its not my first choice in my personal gear selection. The alice is also NOT a 3 day BOB pack, because I could fit a small child or two inside of it - or potentially 2-3 cases of beer.

With that said, If your mission to to tote along beer, the alice might be a solid choice.

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Re: Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by mmaiolo81 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:02 am

catalyst wrote:
mmaiolo81 wrote:
catalyst wrote:I'm sill a fan of my kelty map 3500. Those alice packs are horrible. Huge, but horrible.
Not too bad with the MOLLEII straps and belt... Thinking of getting the 1606AC frame...

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but at this point, you've built an entirely new pack. i used my large alice pack w/frame for a 15 mile snowshoe trip, because i wanted the pack space for food, since it was winter. That pack - oh boy, it was horrible. it didnt matter how much i adjusted it, it couldn't be made comfortable. From the weights some of you humped - i certainly didn't overload the pack, it just didn't balance well and the straps and belt were also less than great. I felt like every time I turned, the pack kept wanting to turn, if I stretched, the pack wanted to drop me. It was like a green blob on my back sitting 2 feet out into space behind me. However, it survived the trip. I'm sure it also survived Korea, Vietnam, nuclear blast testing, and I'm pretty sure it'll outlast me - actually if I continue to use it, I'm positive it'll outlast me...

I put my gear through quite a bit of abuse, and take a few trips a year. The alice is cheap. That's about all I can say about it. Like most of us, I've also head they can be good with heavy modification, but the same can be said of anything...

It's no lie when we say that the pack can hold a lot of stuff. If $ is an issue and you need the space, the alice is a backbreaking steal of a deal. Its not my first choice in my personal gear selection. The alice is also NOT a 3 day BOB pack, because I could fit a small child or two inside of it - or potentially 2-3 cases of beer.

With that said, If your mission to to tote along beer, the alice might be a solid choice.
I use a modded medium ALICE, and I have to still be selective of the contents, unless I go Hellcat and use the MSS... in my BOB/WMBO entry thread It is pretty well full with just enough for the 48hour outing...

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Re: Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Kutter_0311 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:16 am

catalyst wrote:but at this point, you've built an entirely new pack. i used my large alice pack w/frame for a 15 mile snowshoe trip, because i wanted the pack space for food, since it was winter. That pack - oh boy, it was horrible. it didnt matter how much i adjusted it, it couldn't be made comfortable. From the weights some of you humped - i certainly didn't overload the pack, it just didn't balance well and the straps and belt were also less than great. I felt like every time I turned, the pack kept wanting to turn, if I stretched, the pack wanted to drop me. It was like a green blob on my back sitting 2 feet out into space behind me. However, it survived the trip. I'm sure it also survived Korea, Vietnam, nuclear blast testing, and I'm pretty sure it'll outlast me - actually if I continue to use it, I'm positive it'll outlast me...
The ALICE system is designed to be used together, in a certain way, by a certain type of person. Outside of these specs, performance can suffer. The user always suffers, but that isn't so much the gear as the lifestyle. The issued aluminum frame is designed to sit on top of a butt-pack attached to the pistol belt, rather than directly on the hips. The kidney pad has a belt, too, but IMO it's best use is to lash the pack to a jeep, tank, APC, humvee, mule, donkey, or anything else going your way. As methods for carrying a fighting load have changed, the old pistol belt/butt-pack/canteens/rifle mags have been replaced with other configurations that allow a hip-supported ruck, and the 1606AC adapts the ALICE ruck to this use very well. It also won't bend and break as I've seen the issued aluminum frame do. The 1606AC is the biggest, best upgrade you can give ALICE, and it will require a MOLLE waist belt to go with it. In this configuration, a Large ALICE will give you huge capacity for very low weight. It may not be fancy, but fancy often has a weight penalty.
JAYNE COBB wrote: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by mmaiolo81 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:05 pm

kutter_0311
so the 1606 actually lowers the kidney belt to turn it more into a hip belt? sweetness... I'm now sold...

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Re: Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by catalyst » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:33 pm

Kutter_0311 wrote:
catalyst wrote:but at this point, you've built an entirely new pack. i used my large alice pack w/frame for a 15 mile snowshoe trip, because i wanted the pack space for food, since it was winter. That pack - oh boy, it was horrible. it didnt matter how much i adjusted it, it couldn't be made comfortable. From the weights some of you humped - i certainly didn't overload the pack, it just didn't balance well and the straps and belt were also less than great. I felt like every time I turned, the pack kept wanting to turn, if I stretched, the pack wanted to drop me. It was like a green blob on my back sitting 2 feet out into space behind me. However, it survived the trip. I'm sure it also survived Korea, Vietnam, nuclear blast testing, and I'm pretty sure it'll outlast me - actually if I continue to use it, I'm positive it'll outlast me...
The ALICE system is designed to be used together, in a certain way, by a certain type of person. Outside of these specs, performance can suffer. The user always suffers, but that isn't so much the gear as the lifestyle. The issued aluminum frame is designed to sit on top of a butt-pack attached to the pistol belt, rather than directly on the hips. The kidney pad has a belt, too, but IMO it's best use is to lash the pack to a jeep, tank, APC, humvee, mule, donkey, or anything else going your way. As methods for carrying a fighting load have changed, the old pistol belt/butt-pack/canteens/rifle mags have been replaced with other configurations that allow a hip-supported ruck, and the 1606AC adapts the ALICE ruck to this use very well. It also won't bend and break as I've seen the issued aluminum frame do. The 1606AC is the biggest, best upgrade you can give ALICE, and it will require a MOLLE waist belt to go with it. In this configuration, a Large ALICE will give you huge capacity for very low weight. It may not be fancy, but fancy often has a weight penalty.
This is a really good explanation. So when all said and done, you're in ~20-30 for the alice pack and another $40-ish for the 1606AC, and $10 for the Molle belt? Do you still upgrade the straps beyond the stock ones?

I've never really thought about changing the frame out on my large alice pack. I havent really considered it because it makes it a $90 pack versus a $35 pack. Still, I rather have a $90 pack that I use instead of a $35 dust magnet. :-)

Is the Large alice pack too large for the 1606AC? Should I instead invest in a Medium?

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Pelagius » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:56 pm

I was under the impression that it would work for both.

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Aikidoka » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:57 pm

Exploriment wrote:Yes, because NutnFancy is the final word.....
Holy Jesus on a pony, I read that and spit water all over my desk.
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Kutter_0311 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:02 pm

mmaiolo81 wrote:so the 1606 actually lowers the kidney belt to turn it more into a hip belt? sweetness... I'm now sold...
Yes, BUT the ALICE belt is crap for any use beyond 'kidney pad.' Buy a MOLLE waistbelt, it works, works very well, is actually comfy, and has PALS webbing on the hips to allow addition of a holster, canteen, knife, etc. in a very handy spot. Not bad for $5-$15 IMO. I carry a GI 2qt on each hip, for what I consider a "free" gallon of water, as well as my LMF II ASEK.
catalyst wrote:This is a really good explanation. So when all said and done, you're in ~20-30 for the alice pack and another $40-ish for the 1606AC, and $10 for the Molle belt? Do you still upgrade the straps beyond the stock ones?
I don't, but that's an individual choice, as there are plenty of ALICE shoulder strap options, and those will keep the ruck pulled close to your body. I wouldn't use MOLLE shoulder straps on the 1606AC when using the ALICE bag because it will push the weight of the ruck too far away from your back. However, if you put a MOLLE bag on it, use the MOLLE straps or there won't be any pad between your back and the frame. Unless you have a set of those uber-long-pad ALICE shoulder straps, you might be able to set those up for minimal-yet-usable padding and high airflow...
catalyst wrote:I've never really thought about changing the frame out on my large alice pack. I havent really considered it because it makes it a $90 pack versus a $35 pack. Still, I rather have a $90 pack that I use instead of a $35 dust magnet. :-)
Totally the best base-upgrade you can give yourself. It also allows you to use various MOLLE II bags, but those are heavier than the ALICE bags. If these were out 10 years ago, I would have pics of me humping them all over the place in the grunts, and I think I would have been selling them out of my barracks room.
catalyst wrote:Is the Large alice pack too large for the 1606AC? Should I instead invest in a Medium?
1606AC will work fine with Med or Lg ALICE, MOLLE Rifleman, or Lg MOLLE rucks, as well as being the proposed frame for USMC's new FILBE ruck(to replace the ILBE, I guess). 1606AC should work with most rucks based on the ALICE ruck, like Tactical Tailor's MALICE bag or HSGI's Trash Bag, among others. I have personally used both Lg and Med ALICE on my 1606AC's, and put both the Lg MOLLE and Rifleman bags on them, though I have not humped the MOLLE like this.

If you want to build MOLLE rucks as stand-alone units, use the Gen4 1603 frames, (heavier but) way cheaper! I got a box of 10 tan 1603 frames shipped for $50.88(Ebay), close to the cost of buying and shipping one 1606AC from DEI. When buying 1606AC's, I encourage buying at least 3 frames, to cut shipping costs. I think I got 3 shipped for about $100, though I wish I'd have ordered 10 of them right off. So far, I've made 2 3-frame orders, sold/gifted/traded half away for a profit, use 3 for my own bags, and have more friends that want one. Hoping the price/availability comes down if USMC starts issuing 1606AC-framed rucks, though that won't happen for 10 years. My unit tested ILBE prototypes in 2002, and those were rushed into production for the war, and prices are still highish there...

ALICE bags and bags based on ALICE are still in pretty regular use all over, but sadly I haven't seen much 1606AC use. I come across plenty of interest, though, as I keep selling them. If you order 3 frames, use 1 on your bag and allow others to check it out, the other 2 frames can be sold for $50 each, covering most of your investment. Your frame was then almost free 8-) Like many illicit drugs, if you give out free tastes, the producy often sells itself :lol:
JAYNE COBB wrote: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by mmaiolo81 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:35 pm

Kutter_0311 wrote:
mmaiolo81 wrote:so the 1606 actually lowers the kidney belt to turn it more into a hip belt? sweetness... I'm now sold...
Yes, BUT the ALICE belt is crap for any use beyond 'kidney pad.' Buy a MOLLE waistbelt, it works, works very well, is actually comfy, and has PALS webbing on the hips to allow addition of a holster, canteen, knife, etc. in a very handy spot. Not bad for $5-$15 IMO. I carry a GI 2qt on each hip, for what I consider a "free" gallon of water, as well as my LMF II ASEK.
I have the MOLLEII belt and shoulder straps... so now to order me a 1606AC...

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by Kutter_0311 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:29 pm

mmaiolo81 wrote:I have the MOLLEII belt and shoulder straps... so now to order me a 1606AC...
Did you get decent ALICE shoulder straps with your ruck?

I much prefer ALICE shoulder straps with the ALICE ruck, they keep the weight close to your back.

The MOLLE shoulder straps are great for use with MOLLE rucks on the 1606AC.
JAYNE COBB wrote: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.

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Re: Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by mmaiolo81 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:33 pm

Kutter_0311 wrote:
mmaiolo81 wrote:I have the MOLLEII belt and shoulder straps... so now to order me a 1606AC...
Did you get decent ALICE shoulder straps with your ruck?

I much prefer ALICE shoulder straps with the ALICE ruck, they keep the weight close to your back.

The MOLLE shoulder straps are great for use with MOLLE rucks on the 1606AC.
Naw I got mine in med alice woodland, molle waist and shoulders, with mss in hellcat on frame... was thinking just 1606 it low like you do on the alluminum frame...

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a good B.O.B.?

Post by PackLemming » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:13 pm

Thought i'd just squawk a short request for some intel here, especially from our American board members.

Im trying to find an Eberlstock Tailhook sold somewhere in Europe right now but its proving fairly troublesome. In the meanwhile as I rifle through multiple webstores in multiple languages I'd like to be know if the Tailhook design pack has been reproduced by another company, or something along its lines (outside bag Rifle stowage, good venting back padding, kidney/hip belt).

Much appreciated PL
"I was only following the cursory instruction of users."

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