BullOnParade Goes Grey (pictures)

[BullOnParade]

Hello, My name is Rory, and I'm a tactiholic. It's been too long since I bought something tactical, but I'm trying to stay strong.

I've sorted through some of my gear recently and put together a grey bag. A lot of it is old gear, stuff that I've acquired since starting to prepare, some of it from before then. Since moving to a large city, I've put an effort in to blend into the crowd a little more, and that's something I just couldn't do with my tac vest.

I would consider this bag my "second line" as far as going grey, the first being this running belt. The clothing and gear is intended for an urban environment, with the intent of needing to leave my apartment rather quickly, but not such a disaster that I would want to leave the city. Such an event might be anything from an apartment fire to family or friend being hospitalized and me wanting to spend the night. There are enough provisions in the bag that if leaving the city were decided upon, it could be done.

So without further adieu ... the pictures! For some reason, my pictures are coming in too big, so I used clickable thumbnails.



The bag was free. I got it as part of a school trip to England through EF tours. One large compartment, a small pocket inside big enough to slip a walkman cd player in, and a slim pocket on the front under the shock cord. I'm not crazy about the colours, and the construction isn't the best, so this is likely the first thing I will be replacing out of this bag.



Clothing in this picture is pretty basic, a lot of cotton, some polyester, starting from 12 o'clock, clockwise rotation; Cotton, long sleeved, 1/4 button shirt. Under Armour golf shirt. Ribbed, cotton undershirt. Nike compression shorts. One pair, athletic socks. One pair, thermal socks. Cotton, zip off pants/shorts. Under Armour ball cap.



This is a rain suit, free as part of a work uniform when I was in highschool. While putting them back in the bag I realized the pants were torn. I feel like I had a second set at my parents house which I will look for next time I'm visiting, if not I will have to look for something else.



Survival items, left to right, top to bottom; First aid kit, Bandana, Waterbottle, TP, LED glowstick/flashlight, Sea to Summit pocket soap, Fox 40 Classic, Matches, Monster "Hit-Man" Energy Shot, Lighter, Scissors (these scissors come apart leaving a surprisingly good clip point knife). Ninja edit - JUST realized as I was about to hit "submit" that I had missed the 25' length of paracord when I took this picture.



A few things I feel I'd have more use for within city limits; Box of change, Roll of two dollar coins ($50), Headphones with in-line mic and volume, pad lock, battery booster for phone, Memory card with important information. The box of coins has the required coins to make change for any purchase up too $11.29, and four subway tokens. Along with the $50 roll of coins this gives me plenty of money to navigate the city, and even enough to buy a bus out of town if need be.





Food! Pre-cooked pasta dish (600cal.) - NTS Replace before December. Nature Valley Granola Bar (170cal.), half cup-ish of almonds (~250cal.). I am looking around at lifeboat rations, but at this time, there's plenty of food here for the allocated time for this pack.



Toiletries; Toothbrush, deodorant/body spray (read: Blowtorch ) I'll dig out a travel tube of toothpaste once this is posted, not much to explain here.

Things I know need work;
The bag will get me by for now, but should be fairly top priority to replace with something more durable and with less orange.
Shelter isn't necessarily a MUST in this kit, but I still wouldn't hate to see an emergency bivy or something make the list.
I had a small address book floating around with my gear for a long time. It now needs to be updated, and it will stay with this kit.
The food is still somewhat bulky, a 1200 cal. mainstay or comparable bar would be much nicer than the pasta dish.
The Scissors are cool, but I would like to swap them out for a neck knife eventually. I'm thinking along the lines of CS Double Agent II.

[Kutter_0311]

Nice rig! I've not managed to get far from my .mil roots, yet, and I may never

Since you're looking for a new ruck check this out and this.

All available in fairly civ colors like black and tan!

[BullOnParade]

Jeeze. I figured I could live with this set up for at least a few days before I was tempted to upgrade it. I guess that's what I get for posting kit, but first response? Really?

Do you have any experience with either of those bags? I have one friend who swears by their gear, and I don't remember ever hearing a bad review from anyone, just curious though. The removable bag is about 50 cubic inches smaller than the one I have now, but it's molle. I can't go adding too much to it if I want to maintain the grey look.

The larger bag is about 500 ci larger, of course if I cut the food back I wont need much room.
Thanks for the suggestion, now I've got a new piece of kit to roll around in my head for the next couple months.

[Kutter_0311]

I've used a ton of their gear(TT covers my Eagle CIRAS) and they make great stuff.

No personal XP with these(yet) because my wife is pissed at how much $$$ I've spent on .mil gear...

[smokinbunta]

this is definitely on the grey .. no weapon or flash light tho?

I've used a ton of their gear(TT covers my Eagle CIRAS) and they make great stuff.

No personal XP with these(yet) because my wife is pissed at how much $$$ I've spent on .mil gear...

Ahhh... the joys of being single!! no woman to yell at me for buying cool stuff!! i just look at my bank account afterwards and sigh... but its a good sigh...

but i also have a slight addiction to mil spec/ tacticoolness!

[BullOnParade]

this is definitely on the grey .. no weapon or flash light tho?

Well, I'm in Canada, so any real weapon is out of the question. But the LED glow stick is a flashlight as well. I should have a REAL flashlight in here, but I'm playing with the electric glow sticks right now to see if it's a good enough piece of gear to be in all of my kits.

EDIT! Can't believe I forgot duct tape *facepalm*

Just put in a duct tape business card. I think I have duct tape wrapped around so many things in my other kits I feel like it just instantly gets included now.

[rat-a-tat-tat]

Do you have any experience with either of those bags? I have one friend who swears by their gear, and I don't remember ever hearing a bad review from anyone, just curious though. The removable bag is about 50 cubic inches smaller than the one I have now, but it's molle. I can't go adding too much to it if I want to maintain the grey look.

The larger bag is about 500 ci larger, of course if I cut the food back I wont need much room.
Thanks for the suggestion, now I've got a new piece of kit to roll around in my head for the next couple months.

I have the Urban Operator pack and posted a review (that's dated, as I reorganized the bag and changed a few things) in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=79065

ETA:
The changes I made were to change the CC pocket organizer attached the the 3x3 MOLLE grid into a small FAK/admin pouch:


And to get rid of the sleeping bag and attach a Thermarest pad in a 5.11 pouch instead:

[BullOnParade]

Well, I thank you. My bank account, does not. I'll wait until TT runs a discount to order the bag though. Am I reading the website right? The bag comes with two sets of mounting hardware for a tac vest or larger backpack?

[rat-a-tat-tat]

Well, I thank you. My bank account, does not. I'll wait until TT runs a discount to order the bag though. Am I reading the website right? The bag comes with two sets of mounting hardware for a tac vest or larger backpack?

Ahhh, maybe for the Removable Operator Pack?
I have the Urban Operator pack. It's standalone.
I've seen the one I have elsewhere on the 'nets for 80-90 bucks.
I paid about 115, including shipping, direct from TT.
Unsure on the other one. Too much MOLLE for what I was going for.

[BullOnParade]

Oops sorry, I was mistaken as to which one you had. The removable operator is the one I'm looking at. It would allow me to attach it to my lbv if society shit a brick.

[Dawgboy]

So... Where is the water?

[BullOnParade]

So... Where is the water?

Survival items, left to right, top to bottom; First aid kit, Bandana, Waterbottle, TP, LED glowstick/flashlight, Sea to Summit pocket soap, Fox 40 Classic, Matches, Monster "Hit-Man" Energy Shot, Lighter, Scissors (these scissors come apart leaving a surprisingly good clip point knife). Ninja edit - JUST realized as I was about to hit "submit" that I had missed the 25' length of paracord when I took this picture...

[rat-a-tat-tat]

Oops sorry, I was mistaken as to which one you had. The removable operator is the one I'm looking at. It would allow me to attach it to my lbv if society shit a brick.

Having less straps to clutter you up or dig into your shoulders is a good thing, sure, but having a pack attached to your rig is time consuming as hell to get into, so unless you have a buddy to help you out, or you have the time to take off your entire rig, you might want to stick to standalone packs. With a standalone pack with straps, you can ditch it a lot faster if you need to move more quickly, get into a vehicle or other confined space, etc. without having to ditch your rig or take all the time to detach/reattach the pack.

[OperationThor]

this is definitely on the grey .. no weapon or flash light tho?

Well, I'm in Canada, so any real weapon is out of the question. But the LED glow stick is a flashlight as well. I should have a REAL flashlight in here, but I'm playing with the electric glow sticks right now to see if it's a good enough piece of gear to be in all of my kits.

You're joking right? I hope mean that in terms of CCW cuz yeah, we can't have that... but if you meant we can't have guns here you are wrong. We pretty much can have anything they have in the states cept for AK's and AK type weapons, FN Fals and some random stuff like that. They are prohibited, even though you can get prohibited licenses, different types for really small pistols, Full autos etc. (mostly for collectors, museaums, grandfather clauses etc.). You might want to brush up on the firearms act, get licensed and pick up a couple handguns a shotgun and an AR. If you want something you can carry on you legally the closest we can do here in Canada is a non-restricted gun in the car. So go with, mini-14, m-14, shotgun, cz-858, sks. Non restricteds (long guns) don't need to be locked, or in a case while in transportation. They can be in plain sight if you are in the car with it. As long as the car is locked and its out of sight (under a blanket) or its in the locked trunk while you are away from the car and unloaded at all times in transport. 'In transportation' doesn't just mean it has to go from home, to the range and back. Thats for restricted arms (AR's , Handguns etc). If you want to become familiar with the laws read our firearms act. and become a member on the Canadian Gun nutz forum. I go with an 870 or m-14 (cheaper knock off). Just take it in the house every night because if it stays in the vehicle all the time thats not transportation thats storage.

[Kutter_0311]

Good info! Thanks! (Not that it applies to me, but I like to know, anyway...)

[OperationThor]

yeah man there are a lot of guns here. All of them are registered but soon our conservative majority government is supposed to eliminate the non-restricted (long guns) registry . Which is a big step. But since everything is registered here are the stats ht tp://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/facts- ... ec-eng.htm

To add there is a huge number of unregistered non-res guns. some estimate the same amount as there are registered. There are many people that have no license but do own guns here. So... 7 and a half million guns here plus however million unregisterd for a country of 30 something million. Not bad

Oh and Technically legally you can get an ATC (authorization to carry) but they are rarely givin. Mostly issued to Armed guards and people that work in the deep bush like geologists and I'm sure high profile bodyguards etc.

Since on the topic of Canadian gun laws.
5 round mag limit for semi rifles. We have the exact same 30round mag with a chinsy little rivet to stop it to 5 rounds. Do the math (open to interpretaion)
10 rounds for pistols.
No limit for manual repeating arms I.E pump, bolt, lever.
No limit for semi rim fires

Theres more but you can search the firearms act if you want. This is the basics! We are pretty similar to California and Newyork from what I understand.

[BullOnParade]

this is definitely on the grey .. no weapon or flash light tho?

Well, I'm in Canada, so any real weapon is out of the question. But the LED glow stick is a flashlight as well. I should have a REAL flashlight in here, but I'm playing with the electric glow sticks right now to see if it's a good enough piece of gear to be in all of my kits.

You're joking right? I hope mean that in terms of CCW cuz yeah, we can't have that... but if you meant we can't have guns here you are wrong. We pretty much can have anything they have in the states cept for AK's and AK type weapons, FN Fals and some random stuff like that. They are prohibited, even though you can get prohibited licenses, different types for really small pistols, Full autos etc. (mostly for collectors, museaums, grandfather clauses etc.). You might want to brush up on the firearms act, get licensed and pick up a couple handguns a shotgun and an AR. If you want something you can carry on you legally the closest we can do here in Canada is a non-restricted gun in the car. So go with, mini-14, m-14, shotgun, cz-858, sks. Non restricteds (long guns) don't need to be locked, or in a case while in transportation. They can be in plain sight if you are in the car with it. As long as the car is locked and its out of sight (under a blanket) or its in the locked trunk while you are away from the car and unloaded at all times in transport. 'In transportation' doesn't just mean it has to go from home, to the range and back. Thats for restricted arms (AR's , Handguns etc). If you want to become familiar with the laws read our firearms act. and become a member on the Canadian Gun nutz forum. I go with an 870 or m-14 (cheaper knock off). Just take it in the house every night because if it stays in the vehicle all the time thats not transportation thats storage.

Pick the bag for the mission, not the mission for the bag. I have my PAL (Possession and Acquisition License), haven't bought any firearms yet, but I'm working on paper work to inherit part of my father's collection. An unloaded non restricted gun can be transported in the cab of the car without any case or lock. If you leave the vehicle it is required to be moved to the most secured, out of sight location of the vehicle (read: Trunk, when applicable) Anyone I've talked to about the subject strongly suggests against this. Whenever possible, go above and beyond what the firearms act says (as it is the minimum). Long story short, cops likely don't know the full law, and will question why your firearm doesn't have a secured locking device.

The scenario I envision is thus; ZOMBIES! You're lucky, somehow bug out ahead of the crowd, streets are relatively clear. You were smart, talked about zombies on the internet, and saw the signs before everyone else. You acted quickly and clearly made the right decision, but what if ... what if the virus is already at your BOL? What if you have to fight your way in? With the anxiety of these thoughts you subconsciously press harder on the gas, next thing you notice is flashing lights in your rear view mirror, a quick glance down as you pull your foot off the gas: SHIT! 30 klicks over the limit. The officer who pulls you over knows about the zombies, he's been listening to the radio for the past two hours of calls going off in the city, lucky he just saw you speeding so he can justify himself not being where the real trouble is. He doesn't know the firearms act off by heart like you do, and decides that transporting a firearm in the passenger seat without a case or trigger lock just doesn't seem right, so he'll throw a few charges at you, anything that sounds good at the moment. Followed by hauling your ass to the station (the one on the edge of town, not DT where the zombie population is growing). After a few hours in holding and the officer realizes there's nothing that's going to stick, you've lost your head start on the Bug Out, and are now caught in the mass evacuation of the city.

Remove the zombies from my story, and you have a likely occurrence, replace the zombies with long weekend cottagers or another more likely example.

yeah man there are a lot of guns here. All of them are registered but soon our conservative majority government is supposed to eliminate the non-restricted (long guns) registry . Which is a big step. But since everything is registered here are the stats ht tp://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/facts- ... ec-eng.htm

To add there is a huge number of unregistered non-res guns. some estimate the same amount as there are registered. There are many people that have no license but do own guns here. So... 7 and a half million guns here plus however million unregisterd for a country of 30 something million. Not bad

Oh and Technically legally you can get an ATC (authorization to carry) but they are rarely givin. Mostly issued to Armed guards and people that work in the deep bush like geologists and I'm sure high profile bodyguards etc.

Since on the topic of Canadian gun laws.
5 round mag limit for semi rifles. We have the exact same 30round mag with a chinsy little rivet to stop it to 5 rounds. Do the math (open to interpretaion)
10 rounds for pistols.
No limit for manual repeating arms I.E pump, bolt, lever.
No limit for semi rim fires

Theres more but you can search the firearms act if you want. This is the basics! We are pretty similar to California and Newyork from what I understand.

Authorization to Carry is eligible to someone who has at a minimum of three attempts made on their life, not a likely scenario. I've envisioned people hiring hit men to purposely fail at killing them in order to obtain the license :p

And the limitation to 5 rounds for long guns applies to all long guns, regardless of action, except rim fire. When hunting, limit of 3 rounds are to be loaded, so if you go Dick Cheney on your hunting buddy you can only do it three times legally.

I hope you don't feel like I'm picking on you Thor, just wanted to clear a few things up. Welcome to the boards, have you been by the Introduction area yet?

[BullOnParade]

Just got in from a 23KM trek through town with this BOB. I set up an account on [url=mapmyrun.com/url]Map My Run[/url] which allows me to map out what I intend to run (or walk/hike/cycle/climb) either ahead of time, or I can track a work out on my iPhone while I do it. By tracking it on my phone, I was able to find out that the first half of my hike, I traveled roughly 6 kilometers per hour, and (obviously) about a 10 minute kilometer, though I was slightly slower on the way home (11 minute kilometer).

Things I learned about my set up:
I'll start with the "first line belt" which is linked too in my OP of this thread. I think I will replace the clips on this in the future, or at least add a tensioning dewhickey as it consistently worked its way loose, and started to sit on my waist rather than my hips. The added weight on my hips would become uncomfortable, particularly where my Leatherman and cellphone holster sit.

The backpack sat well through the majority of the trek. I kept it high, tried letting it sit a little lower, but the straps started to dig into my shoulders in this position (they don't have great padding). The only problem I had with the pack was that it sat flat against my back. When I stopped for lunch, I took my shirt off to let the sweat dry in the sun. I was wearing an UA compression shirt underneath the grey waffle one that I keep in the bag, and I doubt the grey shirt would have been as soaked through had I worn a cotton undershirt, but I feel the UA did a better job of keeping me cool today. I'm going to look for a different long sleeved shirt though, maybe rotate the waffle print one out for the summer as it's a bit thicker than may be comfortable on some of our hotter summer days.

The food I had packed was alright, I diluted the sauce a little too much that goes on the noodles, but it was still enjoyable. The almonds will be replaced with new almonds, and the nature valley bar will be replaced with a clif bar. I stopped in to the store where I picked up the noodle bowls originally, and they didn't seem to be carrying them anymore, but I will try other stores in the area before I give up. I need to bite the bullet and just order some lifeboat rations to improve the quality of the food.

One thing I need to upgrade on this kit is fluids, especially if the foods I have packed are thirst provoking. I had added a 710ml bottle of Powerade a few weeks ago, I went through both the 750ml bottle of water faster than I had expected, the Powerade was about what I expected. I'm thinking if I go with the removable operator pack, I can add a 1L bottle carrier to (at least) one side, throw a 1L bottle of Gatorade in there, and a hydration bladder on the back.

I didn't get a chance to use any of the real "survival" equipment, It was just a four hour hike and lunch in a park, but I was able to walk from my apartment to my friends, see the route, and examine a few alternatives and detours (canals, rail tracks, cutting through city parks).

While a sleep system isn't a requirement to me in this kit, if I could find something I liked and was compact enough, I would like to give this kit a kick at the can for the Summer But Out Contest, but there's just too many things I want to do with this kit before I start investing in things I don't feel are necessary.

[Kutter_0311]

Sounds like a good hump! Good on ya for getting out there!

[BullOnParade]

My last update got eaten up in the Blackout, so I'll try and remember what all I had added then, but for now I've made some changes due to progress I made after the forgotten post.

Previous update and additional information:
Hard map of the city. The map is a little bit shy of my neighbourhood, but since this bag can be used for a situation that would require me to go into the city as well as away from it, I felt it was worth the addition. I also picked up a few free tourist maps a couple of weekends ago, ones that highlight on the important buildings and tourist sites of the city. One of these maps had a map of Toronto's underground walkway known as The P.A.T.H. (linky). I was originally going to copy the P.A.T.H. map onto my hardcopy, but decided to just cut it out and fold it in with the full city map. I was warned by Kutter of the dangers of underground walkways, and though I knew the Path was there, I'd never spent any real time in it besides when a few friends were staying in one of the hotels located over top of a section. Last week I was meeting a friend at Union station and found myself waiting near one of the most northern access points to the walkway, I decided I would risk it.

It turns out, the whole walkway is pretty well upbeat and clean. at least one section of a few city blocks is owned by Cadillac Fairview shopping centers, and nearly the entire walkway is full of boutiques and up scaled stores. I came across two Automated Bank Machines for my own bank, as well as a few from other banks (good to know they're there in the event I need money). While it was after 21:00 when I walked through and all of the stores were closed, there were a few suits walking through from their connected offices, and janitorial staff were found every few minutes. There were lots of maps of the area showing both the underground walkway and stores, as well as street level access and stores. The one thing I would be worried about, is what an area like this could turn into in the event of inter-city riots. With so many access points from the streets and popular buildings (including Air Canada Center and Rogers Center). I also added a cheap compass to the bag for basic orientation in the event I come up from the P.A.T.H. or a subway station. Sometimes it is easy to get turned around when you come from underground, and you cannot always see the CN Tower right away to get orientation. Toronto is a grid system, so it's easy to figure out where you are, its only a matter of figuring out which way is North on a North/South street.

I swapped out the waffle knit long sleeved for a polyester quick dry Reebok long sleeve, and added a shemagh (coyote/black, might switch to OD/black later on). Also picked up a very cheap pair of sunglasses which I realized recently are fail as far as bug out shades. While the construction is great considering I only paid a dollar, for some reason I bought mirrored lenses. While I don't mind these in a situation where it's okay to be flashy, they don't suit the Grey Man approach. I will be swapping these out for a pair of sportier black wrap arounds (I think I've found a set with interchangeable lenses).

All of the items listed "survival items" above have been put inside of a slim toiletry bag, along with the actual toiletries. The deodorant/body spray was replaced with a sample sized deodorant stick, and lip balm and dental floss were added.

I was able to replace the precooked noodles that I ate on my hike (the last visible update), I still want to replace these with lifeboat rations, but these are about 2/3 the price and I don't have to pay shipping. Baby steps.

I just placed an order for the TT Removable Operator pack and two 5.11 waterbottle pouches. These will take a while to come in as the pack is on back order from LA Police Gear.

I think that's everything, I'm trying to work in some time to throw together a mock bugout for the Summer Bugout contest, but I start a new job on Monday and the deadline is only a week and a half away. Also, I'd have to put together some form of shelter before I do that. I'll either do another update after a MBO, or when I get the new bag.

[DurzoBlint38]

I like the padlock, that's a good idea for an urban area. Heck it could even be used as a weapon if you were so inclined. I think I saw a show on the History channel about outlaw bikers who explained they use a padlock as a weapon. They take a length of chain and attach the padlock, instant flail. They also said that a bandana and the padlock would work in the same way. If they get stopped by the cops they say that they have it just to lock up the motorcycle. It's not very nice but I throw it out there as one more way to use that piece of kit you have.

[BullOnParade]

I think someone in the EDC thread said they carry the padlock and bandana. Just loop it through and drop it in your back pocket. You can grab an end of the bandana and pull it out without the lock as well for non-weapon bandana purposes. I wouldn't choose to do this in my neighborhood for the fear of representing the wrong gang at the wrong time.

[BullOnParade]

So the Tactical Tailor pack came in last Friday, of course it was a busy weekend, and lots of overtime at work the week I want to play with my new toys.

Everything transferred over fine, I've also added a few things to the line up, which will get pictured in this post.

Here's all the packins


The MSR Dromedary was purchased for this kit, but I can't find the hydration connector. If I have to I'll pick up the MSR Dromlite, but in the meantime I have a 2L Camelbak in place.
I replaced the cap with something a little more subdued, and added a light that fits on the beak. I like this light as it can also be hooked to the carry handle on the top of the pack, facing backwards, so people can see where you are.
I put the clothes into a compression sack, it's cheap, and it sucks. I want to break these things down into smaller bags still.

Food + dish


Nothing new here, I'd still like to pick up some ration bars, I could fit a 3600cal. bar into the space of this bowl easily.

Urban Survival stuffs, fits into black toiletry bag.


The firesteel and compass pictured below the bag, is inside of the Nalgene now, just to make this kit a little more urban oriented. I made a duct tape sheath for the scissors, just to reduce the odds of them stabbing through the cheap pouch, or scratching me while I dig around for things in the dark.

Toiletry stuff, fits into small pencil case


Nothing fantastic, added the Shamwow, haven't had a chance to use it as a towel yet, but we'll see how they work out, it was only $1

Nalgene and some stuff inside of it.


The stuff in the Nalgene is just things I don't need all that often within city limits.

And of course, the backpack itself




I have a 5.11 bottle carrier on each side, and a 5.11 6x6 med pouch on the front. The med kit is something I want to work on, right now it's mostly minor bumps and scrapes, a few OTC meds, nothing fancy.

Still to come besides what's listed above, is a neck knife. I've sourced what I want, just waiting for a few extra shifts to justify the order.

I just realized that since I didn't unpack the compression sack with the clothes, I didn't get a picture of the sea to summit sleeping bag liner or emergency bivy bag. If you really need to see this set up, take a look at my entry in the summer mock bug out, but it's nothing worth writing home about.

[Canadian Guy]

Great "Grey man" bag, Tactical Tailor bag looks really nice. Good choices on kit although if "bugging out" you could always stop at MEC or Bass Pro if bugging out to the North

this is definitely on the grey .. no weapon or flash light tho?

Well, I'm in Canada, so any real weapon is out of the question. But the LED glow stick is a flashlight as well. I should have a REAL flashlight in here, but I'm playing with the electric glow sticks right now to see if it's a good enough piece of gear to be in all of my kits.

You're joking right? I hope mean that in terms of CCW cuz yeah, we can't have that... but if you meant we can't have guns here you are wrong. We pretty much can have anything they have in the states cept for AK's and AK type weapons, FN Fals and some random stuff like that. They are prohibited, even though you can get prohibited licenses, different types for really small pistols, Full autos etc. (mostly for collectors, museaums, grandfather clauses etc.). You might want to brush up on the firearms act, get licensed and pick up a couple handguns a shotgun and an AR. If you want something you can carry on you legally the closest we can do here in Canada is a non-restricted gun in the car. So go with, mini-14, m-14, shotgun, cz-858, sks. Non restricteds (long guns) don't need to be locked, or in a case while in transportation. They can be in plain sight if you are in the car with it. As long as the car is locked and its out of sight (under a blanket) or its in the locked trunk while you are away from the car and unloaded at all times in transport. 'In transportation' doesn't just mean it has to go from home, to the range and back. Thats for restricted arms (AR's , Handguns etc). If you want to become familiar with the laws read our firearms act. and become a member on the Canadian Gun nutz forum. I go with an 870 or m-14 (cheaper knock off). Just take it in the house every night because if it stays in the vehicle all the time thats not transportation thats storage.

Most economical choice is the SKS, you can get a brand new Chinese Type 56 still in cosmoline packing grease for $200, they're everywhere up here but the best deal is the CZ 858 (VZ 58). $700 brand new with 4 mags, cleaning kit, sling and ammo for it (and the) SKS is dirt cheap. I would recommend the non-restricted CZ 858 which allows you to essentially walk around in the woods (on crown land) with the equivalent of an AK 47 to hunt or just plink I have the restricted one and its a range gun only.