Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Keith B » Thu May 20, 2010 11:17 am

We all plan for zombies, after all, if you are prepared for zombies, you are prepared for anything, right? The mythical ultimate disaster, but we have a lot of disasters to prep for. Fires, floods, tornadoes, mudslides, earthquakes, riots, food shortages, civil unrest. The list is long and varied We, as preppers, like to think that we are ready for anything, that not even zombies can stop us from living healthy productive lives in a post apocalyptic world. It’s a daunting task, worrying if we have enough beans and bullets to get thru whatever fate may throw at us. Not to mention first aid supplies, water, and proper clothing. The lists can, and do, go on and on.

Just one slight issue, the reoccurring theme that I see in a lot of Bug Out Bags (BOBs) is that they are packing like they are an Infantry soldier in Afghanistan. Sure, you may have three days worth of food, a water filter, good shelter, maybe even some quality night vision goggles. But if you are packing 14 AR mags in your bag, hundreds of rounds of pistol ammo, smoke grenades, and all you seem to be missing is two frag grenades, and a claymore mine, you may want to rethink your exit strategy.

Bugging out is not going to war! Please take a moment and think about this. What is our Bug Out Bag designed to do? It is nothing more than over glorified 72 hour kit, designed to hold everything we need to keep us alive and comfortable for 72 hours. They are also used to transport us from point A to point B. If you are planning on making the journey between these two points (hopefully to somewhere safer and with more supplies), would it not behoove you to maintain a low profile? I am of the opinion that being able to move quickly and quietly to a safer location is of more value than being able to slug it out in a huge firefight with raiders while your loved ones cower behind a burned out vehicle.
Do you really think that the most likely scenario will be you fighting off hordes of raiders while you race to your super secret bunker outside of town? Throwing rounds over your shoulder as your wife and child races ahead of you, running towards what you hope is safety? Popping smoke grenades to cover you as you flee, knowing that all you have to do is make it to the distant mountains. Once you get there you will be able to build a cabin and live off the land, growing swiss chard and shooting a deer when you need meat? We should probably set aside the masturbatory scenes of us saving the world from all forms of evil as we protect our family. What is the most likely outcome?

The simple fact of the matter is that it won’t be that simple, nor are any of these scenarios very likely. Can society crumble and collapse, of course. Will there be a bad people intent on doing bad things to you and yours? Yes, and they are already here, you walk amongst them every day. Is it possible that you will have to flee your home, taking with you only what you can carry? There is an old adage that says “If you can’t carry it on your back, you don’t own it.” The most likely scenario, if you do have to flee your home, is that you will probably be returning shortly, probably in a few days. There may even be a few looters out taking advantage of the situation. Law Enforcement will also be out, doing their job, nervous and antsy at the desperate situation they are faced with. How is a man going to be greeted, especially if he looks like something that just walked off of a battlefield, covered with body armor, bristling with weapons and ammo. Do you really believe that they are going to ask you to help out? Or even just walk right past them?
Sure, you may have to defend yourself from raiders and looters, maybe even more than once. It is doubtful that they are going to come in droves, more so that they will be organized enough to coordinate any serious assault. But what is a solitary individual to do, or even a small team for that matter? What happens when somebody is wounded? There is no emergency room, no ambulance waiting to take them to the hospital. A pressure dressing and tourniquet is going to stop the bleeding, but it isn’t going to put the damaged muscle and tendons back together. Any wound that damages any of the internal organs will probably be fatal without proper treatment. What then?

We are preppers, we use our brains to game plan out scenarios and stock pile the provisions we need to survive the things that we have envisioned in our minds. Our contingency plans are even more important than our gear, our brains are more valuable than any rifle or any number of bullets. The odds that we are going to be in some grandiose firefight are extremely slim. So why do we prep like we are going to face Armageddon when we are much more likely to have to deal with a flat tire, a natural disaster, or maybe even a house fire?
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by OpelBlitz » Thu May 20, 2010 11:46 am

lol, feel better now? :?
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by dukman » Thu May 20, 2010 11:46 am

I had a disagreement with a coworker some time ago about the ammo hoarding issue. He has a dozen or so classic cars that he has collected over the years. I asked him, "Does anyone really need all those hot rods??" "But that is different" he responded. "What gives you the right to bitch about someone elses collection, when yours make no sense either?" At first that response pissed him off, but he later came to me and said he saw what I was saying and complained less about it later.

To each their own... if someone want to pack a lot of heat, so be it. At least they are thinking about preparedness.
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Stormrider » Thu May 20, 2010 11:51 am

First of all, I think a lot of people just want an excuse to show off their awesome fighting gear in Bug out Bag posts. :lol:

But no, for a natural disaster or whatever generic emergency you probably won't need a rifle and a full combat loadout. Just a sidearm for each able person is probably enough in most cases, and you can conceal that to avoid looking like a threat. (because in many cases even if the cops leave you alone, other people might get some interesting thoughts when they see you walking by geared up and armed, and they might just be the trigger happy types.) Plus assuming you survive all your hypothetical gunfights, I wouldn't want to leave a trail of spent brass and body parts leading right to my BOL, if at all possible. :P

So for your typical 72 hour bug out from a storm or something, my first instinct would be to keep all that stuff out of plain sight. I'd take it with me in a vehicle if I could. (if for no other reason than guns & gear is valuable and one of the first things I'd want to save)

But lets be honest, no matter what we are more likely to face we all love to prepare for that hypothetical total meltdown that hopefully won't happen. IMO that's where the battle rattle comes in...what will actually happen in a total PAW is anyones guess, but it's pretty safe to assume that there will be lots of violence, at least initially.


But besides the point I don't think fighting gear is such a bad thing to have. Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum and all that. And it's a free country and it's not any of my business whether someone needs certain bits of gear or not.

Just my $o.2

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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by bigmattdaddywack » Thu May 20, 2010 11:52 am

Look at your avatar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejd2rsXoQSI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:)
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu May 20, 2010 11:52 am

dukman wrote:To each their own... if someone want to pack a lot of heat, so be it. At least they are thinking about preparedness.

I don't think he's talking about stashes at your house, or your hobbies, or whatever. He's talking about packing your BOB to make an sudden evacuation. How heavy is your BOB, and when's the last time you walked 10 miles carrying that much weight?

Edit to add: for me, under 35lbs including water, and last week.
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Mister Dark » Thu May 20, 2010 11:59 am

Good point, and one I heartily agree with. In a bug-out, I want to be as "grey man" as possible. The less attention I bring on myself, the better. That being said, I am not going completely defenseless - I will at least have my CCW with me. But it would be concealed (ccw, duh) and out of sight unless really really needed. My BOB has some spare ammo, but I strongly recommend against a full chest rig or mil-style vest rig. For that matter, I have leaned pretty far away from military surplus for most of my kit. The more I can look like a harmless lost civilian, (and therefore left alone!) the better. I do have several long arms that can be carried in my BOB, I just dont have them packed all the time. But they can be carried IN the bag, again totally hidden until I need em.

Now, bugging IN, is a different story altogether.




PS: A great read on how things can go badly in a disaster would be Raptors' Responsibility and Accountability in a SHTF Situation thread.


EDIT TO ADD
dukman wrote: How heavy is your BOB, and when's the last time you walked 10 miles carrying that much weight?

Edit to add: for me, under 35lbs including water, and last week.
for me? Just about 30 pounds with food and water, yesterday, but it was only 5.5 miles.
Last edited by Mister Dark on Thu May 20, 2010 12:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by mantis » Thu May 20, 2010 12:00 pm

Well put sigboy40.
"Do you really think that the most likely scenario will be you fighting off hordes of raiders while you race to your super secret bunker outside of town? "
Unfortunately, for some within the survival community (mall ninja types in particular), this is their ultimate fantasy. Tired of the daily grind, they hope and pray for the day when society goes into the toilet so that they can play army and, they hope, rule those who once looked down upon them.

The truth of the matter is that while defensive firearms are a pretty damned good idea in terms of survival prep, they really should be intended for use as a last resort defensive tool. If you go out and get into gunfights, sooner or later you'll get dinged and, in the absense of proper medical facilities, you'll probably die as a result - even in the case of a relatively minor wound.
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by whisk.e.rebellion » Thu May 20, 2010 12:09 pm

sigboy40 wrote: My Rattle
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by elkhills » Thu May 20, 2010 12:18 pm

OP, I agree and my BoB (and strategy) reflect that. However, every persons situation is different, and their strategy will differ as well.
To send the visual message "leave me the fuck alone!" some want to be the "grey man", blending in with the crowd. This would probably be a good strategy in significantly populated areas.
In a sparsely populated area, you are a target simply because you're there. You could make the case that carrying an "evil black rifle", in full fatigues and body armour would send that same message.
That all said, yeah I think some internet folks are just playing army man and showing off their toys.

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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Meat N' Taters » Thu May 20, 2010 12:22 pm

I agree 100%.

Odds of needing 500 rounds of 5.56 in your BOB = slim to none
Odds of running out of water after 1 day because all you packed was ammo = high

I think a scary number of people aren't so much prepping for disaster as they are secretly popping a boner at the idea of being able to go all "Wolverines!" one day.

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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Keith B » Thu May 20, 2010 12:25 pm

whisk.e.rebellion wrote:
sigboy40 wrote: My Rattle
Please note that it does not say 'Rattle and BOB', nor did I say that this stuff did not have it's place. It's simply not needed for 99.9% of the situations that you are going to run into. I would go so far as to say that it would be a detriment 99.9% of the time.
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by whisk.e.rebellion » Thu May 20, 2010 12:34 pm

sigboy40 wrote:
whisk.e.rebellion wrote:
sigboy40 wrote: My Rattle
Please note that it does not say 'Rattle and BOB', nor did I say that this stuff did not have it's place. It's simply not needed for 99.9% of the situations that you are going to run into. I would go so far as to say that it would be a detriment 99.9% of the time.
Fair 'nuff.

The only time I'd be bugging out in full battle rattle is if my house is on fire because looters/raiders/other PAW fantasy character just chucked a bunch of molotovs on my roof. That is a very slim chance worst case scenario, however.

That being said, it's fun to throw an M4gery into a pic of your BoB. I'm sure there are a few people on here who do fantasize about bugging out in battle rattle and blowing away bad guys as they run through the woods, but I'm willing to be a majority of us are just having fun. It doesn't necessarily take away from the seriousness of prepping, unless you're serious about bugging out with a full combat load.
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by ninja-elbow » Thu May 20, 2010 12:37 pm

Meat N' Taters wrote:I agree 100%.

Odds of needing 500 rounds of 5.56 in your BOB = slim to none
Odds of running out of water after 1 day because all you packed was ammo = high

I think a scary number of people aren't so much prepping for disaster as they are secretly popping a boner at the idea of being able to go all "Wolverines!" one day.
+1 also, and always been my rub with the advent of the internet survival web site... and prior. Boon for the tactical market though... all spurred on with the comment, "Well, my life is worth $xx.xx... ra ra ra".

Every disaster I have been in, one we were actually even sparodically getting shot at, water, shelter and food still overshadowed bullets and rifles.

I look at it like this:
Person with a good stock of food, water and shelter with weapons to protect themselves = what you are going for.
Person with really good weapons and tons of ammo and weapon related gear and a few days of food and water = the one to protect yourself from.

Also consider that guns and talking about guns and pictures of guns gets the traffic and the guys that know the most about that stuff get the cool points and the following. Hence, it's going to look like we talk about guns a lot. The whole reason(s) I put up the avatar I have is becasue of that. It's just a shot from a movie I did but people sure have given me more props since I put it up. :D
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by ODA 226 » Thu May 20, 2010 12:44 pm

bigmattdaddywack wrote:Look at your avatar.
And almost every pic of you here or on your blog has you with a weapon, a uniform of some type or both. You really put out some mixed statements here. One, is, "Be the greyman"; Two: Be the guy in blue uniform jumpsuit with a pistol and an AR platform; or Three: Be the greyman walking down the road in a blue uniform jumpsuit, pistol, AR platform with a TAC vest with: (Taken from your thread)
First line gear:
Sig P226R in 40 S&W
3 Mags
Safariland 6005 drop thigh holster and dual mag pouch
Multitool
5" fixed blade knife
IFAK (OD pouch)
E&E kit (coyote pouch) http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 14&t=53433" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2x mag shingle
Flashlight
Small pouch w/ rangefinder
-also includes spare batteries for everything
Ear Protection
1-2x mag shingle
1-2x Kangaroo pouch
1-2x pouch (far left)
PLUS 6=1 loaded mags for the AR = 210 rounds

It was good that you set the bar for walking the walk, so to speak, with your BOB and I really thank you for that report. However, you never once mentioned carrying a weapon of any kind in your report. If you ever had to really bug-out in a civil emergency, I think you would be very disingenuous if you say that you wouldn't be taking your AR, pistol and TAC vest with you. If you would have carried that equipment with you on your test, I think your finding that speed trumps sound tactical off-road movement would change because everyone would be able to see your weapons.

Bugging out is not going to war...but if you think you're going to be able to bug-out in any riot situation and simply walk down a road to home or away from home unaccosted is asking for your life to be put at risk. Never sacrifice security for speed!
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Kabong30 » Thu May 20, 2010 12:54 pm

Modularity is the order of the day! That way you can add to your load out if things escalate. I have my daily carry GHB, then I have my BOB which I would carry with that, and then I have my little pistol belt and suspender setup for any armed carry. I admit that I haven't tried to put that particular piece on with the pack and my day bag, but I think I could make it work.
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Thorne » Thu May 20, 2010 1:05 pm

sigboy40 wrote:We all plan for zombies, after all, if you are prepared for zombies, you are prepared for anything, [...] So why do we prep like we are going to face Armageddon when we are much more likely to have to deal with a flat tire, a natural disaster, or maybe even a house fire?

Blame popular media and the 'zombie' theme. Zombies come in Hoards

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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by bigmattdaddywack » Thu May 20, 2010 1:11 pm

Listen! I do, have an underground bunker on the outskirts of town.

Actually no.
We all fantasize about this shit and that is ok, cause it is not like we want it to happen.
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I see it as turning prepping into a cool, fun, hobby.
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by BobtheBreaker » Thu May 20, 2010 1:14 pm

Kabong30 wrote:Modularity is the order of the day!...
+1

Have a BoB...have battle gear. Keep your ear on the airwaves, pack appropriately.
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Oni » Thu May 20, 2010 1:17 pm

You do your thing, I'll do mine.

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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Glennbo » Thu May 20, 2010 1:31 pm

I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the country, and I CCW two pistols and several extra magazines every day. Why on earth should I think it will be any less necessary to carry them in a disaster situation?
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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Meat N' Taters » Thu May 20, 2010 1:39 pm

I have nothing against stocking guns and ammo. I have a good amount of both, and always want more, believe me.

I am more miffed by the people that are "moar gunz! moar ammoz! I'll buy water and food later!"

It's great to be able to put ten rounds in a dime-sized hole from 300 yards while doing front rolls and wearing shiny new 5.11 pants...but if you don't know how to start a fire without a lighter and gasoline, or if you're relying on a case of Ozarka and two sleeves of saltines to last you a month then you ain't worth a shit as far as survival goes.

Jus' sayin.

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Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by Keith B » Thu May 20, 2010 1:58 pm

BobtheBreaker wrote:
Kabong30 wrote:Modularity is the order of the day!...
+1

Have a BoB...have battle gear. Keep your ear on the airwaves, pack appropriately.
Here is an answer I can get behind! Yes, I have a BOB, I even have some rattle. I even use them on occasion, to make sure that my body can do what my mind tells me that I can. A BOB is not a go to war kit, can the two function together? Sure. But what are the chances? The whole point to my OP is that they are two seperate items, and should be treated as such. I show off my rattle, hell it even got posted before my BOB. You dont use a sledge hammer to pound nails. Bugging out with your battle rattle during a natural disaster will get you killed, Katrina proved that, Raptor did an awesome thread about it a few months ago.
So pack appropriately, just remember that a bug out probably wont call for full body armor and a chest rig full of AR mags.
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Location: Monterey Bay, California

Re: Bugging Out is NOT Going to War!

Post by whisk.e.rebellion » Thu May 20, 2010 2:01 pm

Glennbo wrote:I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the country, and I CCW two pistols and several extra magazines every day. Why on earth should I think it will be any less necessary to carry them in a disaster situation?
In all fairness, walking out of metro Detroit would take waaaaaaaaaay too long if you were wearing full battle rattle and carrying a rifle. I mean, the 8lbs of two pistols and spare mags must take its toll already.
I survived Zombie Con 2011: Full Spectrum Pain
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