EricinMaryland's BOB, formerly "Yet Another BOB by a Noobie"

[EricinVirginia]

I don't think using 10 pound weights over 2 miles has much of a + or - effect. What should sink in is that your pack weighs too much for you right now if your intent is to carry it any distance.

3 possible solutions:

1. Dump some of the load and/or make it lighter by replacing the heavy stuff with lighter choices. If you are forced to carry this any distance there is a good chance you are going to be ditching stuff right and left anyway.

2. Develop the ability to haul what you have.

3. Really the best solution in my opinion is some combination of the first 2.

So... Rule #1: Cardio... sorry had to say it.

There must be 20+ ankle weight references scattered across different threads on ZS. It wasn't my intent to have my BOB turn into an ankle weight discussion. May I propose moving this to a new thread in the Contingency/Planning discussion? I'll start a poll. Y.T. and other long time members of ZS and those in the know can post about ankle weights there. I'm wearing them right now as I sit at my desk. In an hour, I'll walk down 4 stories of stairs and drive to a meeting in DC.

Posts forward on BOB commentary only please. Edited to put in poll link.

[sigboy40]

One thing about having a change of underwear and socks, nothing feels better after your first day in the bush than clean socks. You have to rely on your feet and a clean, dry pair of socks are priceless.

[Finch]

One thing about having a change of underwear and socks, nothing feels better after your first day in the bush than clean socks. You have to rely on your feet and a clean, dry pair of socks are priceless.

exactly

and just to fuck with the word filter

+1

[Woods Walker]

This thread is great. Thank you so much for the feedback. I love the posts about fishing... the auto reels are those yo-yo devices that you mount to a stick and when a fish snags them, they slowly reel the fish in. Kind of a set and forget device. So, I can dump the poles easily. Both poles are collapsibe to 18", but I also have a collapsible hiking stick in the bag. The hiking sticks would work well for a longer hike, but I see a higher probability of wanting to keep my hands free or to be holding a long arm.

I did not know about the issues with cooking and will look for a small mess kit. Hammock does not have a mosquito net, but I have a boonie hat that does. Since I'd be sleeping in my clothes, I think I might be okay from mosquitos, and maybe the gods will smile on me and keep me free of ticks.

The ankle weight discussion is interesting. I have three boots... converse tactical boots, steel toe tactical boots, and warm/winter/waterproof. All are pretty heavy and are nowhere close to what I normally wear during normal life. In bug out, I'd pick and choose which boots very carefully. Given all the ankle accessories you can get from wallets, to pistol/knife holsters, to baton holsters... I have to think that if you think you MIGHT be using such a device, you need to train and be familiar with it. My prefered sidearm - loaded - weighs about 5.2 lbs. With a steel toe boot and heavy socks, I'm going to have some weight right? The ankle weights were to simulate a fuller level of gear load than what I can do in the forest I went hiking in. Am I the only one that thinks training with a approximate gear loads is a good idea? What do police do when they have an ankle pistol or boot knife? I doubt they counter-balance it by putting an equally heavy object in their other boot. It was a warm day and I didn't have my jeans on loaded up with gear, nor did I want to, and thought - what the heck.

I'll switch out the LED hat light with the Gerber Carnivore headlight... it's brighter and takes the same batteries as other stuff I have. The Surefire is an LED and is mounted as part of a vertical forend grip for either the shotgun or rifle. I'll look at other food options... as I'd like to free up some space for a CR123A/AA/AAA battery charger and flexible solar panels. Compass is a good idea, but I haven't seen one that I like yet... either too bulky, too technical, or too fragile.

I'm Never Coming Home... ouch.

Foot and ball protection makes sense and appropriately - I suppose - explains the ZS fixation on underwear and socks.

In bug out, I'm assuming I'm going out on my own with wife and kids camped at the Silent Hill/Racoon City fork in the road. Kids are too young right now and 1 of us has to be with them. I suppose I'm a bit more disposable to the family than wife just due to the whole shelf life thing... once my epilepsy meds run out, a lot of things will change for me.

If the bugs are bad you will suffer some with just clothing and a head net. A campfire is good to keep some of them away. Just make certain your clothing is dry and made of synthetic or wool materials if sleeping in them. Wet cotton clothing is worse than nothing as water transfers heat 25+ times faster than air. They don’t need to be dripping wet to transfer your body heat. Sweat from a hard day is often enough.

The Suunto M2 would be my recommendation.

http://www.suunto.com/suunto/Worlds/out ... 7190770427

Not that expensive at around 20 bucks and not too complicated. A map without a compass is trouble if you can’t identify landmarks 100% and it is overcast as the sun will not help you determine direction. There are many ways to use a compass but my advice it to practice the basics first with a map.

[Stormrider]

Now would be a good time to learn orienteering, map reading and all that. Deffinately get some topo maps of your area and a good compass. I have been using an older Silva Ranger for quite some time, but a compass is a personal preference.

[Blackdog]

I don't think using 10 pound weights over 2 miles has much of a + or - effect. What should sink in is that your pack weighs too much for you right now if your intent is to carry it any distance.

3 possible solutions:

1. Dump some of the load and/or make it lighter by replacing the heavy stuff with lighter choices. If you are forced to carry this any distance there is a good chance you are going to be ditching stuff right and left anyway.

2. Develop the ability to haul what you have.

3. Really the best solution in my opinion is some combination of the first 2.

So... Rule #1: Cardio... sorry had to say it.

I think Cardio is kind of a overworked term. Much like Woods Walker was aiming at with the comment about squats and weight lifting, Cardio can't hurt and in fact would help but it is no substitution for carrying a pack. The guy pounding in railroad spikes all day may or may not have exceptional Cardio ability (treadmill, running, elliptical or what ever), but he can in fact pound in railroad spikes all day. Hauling around a pack on a regular basis will build "Cardio" but more important to the goal of hauling a pack, it will improve your ability (and skill) to haul around a pack.

[jnathan]

This time I'm actually responding to the subject of the post.

If you go the route of using the poncho as shelter, you're probably going to want some stakes to along with your paracord to setup an improvised shelter. Though I still prefer the tent or bivvy sack option.

Despite labeleing your post as a BOB by a Noobie (Newbie), I think you've done a pretty good job.

In terms of what to remove and what to add, I'm in agreement with most of what has already been said.

-Jeff

[Y.T.]

ooh, creepy. I just came on to same the same thing jnathan did. and right after him, again. sp00ky.

I was trying to make dinner and posting between timer tasks last night, so I didn't get to finish addressing the BOB itself. and I think by now anything I'd comment on has already been posted -- socks, underwear, stove/fuel, fishing, food, cup to boil in. I have to say that your sense of nutrition frightens me, but as long as that works for you.

ETA:
some tools you may want to add:
duct tape
zip ties
whistle
signaling mirror
compass
(maybe those are all in the generic survival kit)
I didn't see any stakes for the shelter
saw a towel but no kind of hygiene: soap, hand sanitizer, toothbrush, tooth paste, nail clipper


re: INCH bag.
it stands for I'm Never Coming Home, but that's a bit of a misnomer as people here often use it. It's more about an extended bugout and as such it has tools to help you provide for yourself (such as hunting and trapping materials vs. carrying canned or freezedried food). the idea of a BOB is to get you to safety in 3-5 days, where you can then resupply or return home. the idea of an INCH is more about self-sufficiency for an extended period of time. You can't possibly carry a month's worth of food or water, so instead you carry the tools to obtain both. the wiki link in my sig should have more on that.

[EricinVirginia]

Thanks Jeff and Y.T. and everyone else for your comments. I've always enjoyed picking apart a good zombie flick with my wife often marvelling at their equipment selections. Last New Years, someone smashed and vandalized my work car in front of the house. It started a chain reaction of what ifs and what should we if that put us on the slippery slope of prepping along basic to more advanced levels. What started out as securing our home and family, almost immediately turned into a "Well if we're doing this, then logically this other thing could come into play..." When I'm walking in the forest with our 1 year old German Shepherd with all the weight loaded up, I often look back at that and wonder/marvel at the steps that started when I realized what had happened to the car could have extended to the family and then step by step here I am. In our case, the zombies used a blunt object about 50 times on the car's exterior, slashed tires, slashed interior seats/paneling/trim/and ceiling, doused interior with fuel, put sugar in gas tank, and then spray painted the interior with black and red paint. Stupid zombies... they brained my car, but moved our entire neighborhood into an elevated sense of security awareness.

We thought... what if they had tried to come into the house? So, we armed ourselves.
We thought... what if they are also armed? So we armored ourselves.
We thought... what if we had to retreat to a safe location? So we began looking at ways to quickly remove gear that would be vital to a retreat and confrontation.
We thought... what other things could trigger zombie like behavior? And so here we are on ZS!



I have maps of my area and have wandered around the back trails and roads enough that I'm good. Problem with Maryland is that, at least in the wooded areas, you can't see landmarks. I'll keep my eyes out for that Suunto compass next time I'm in a sports shop. I love duct tape and have it handy in most places I do work and the cars. I've read up on the waxxed paper folder over for duct tape and will add that to the BOB as well. I have about 8x 6" zip ties in my IFAk, but after thinking about it, am going to add some of the longer thicker ones to the BOB.

I put in an order for a backpacker mess kit, wool base layer, and will look at stakes but for the weight and space, I'd rather figure out a tie down method and save room/weight allowance for ammunition. These are the items I don't see in other ZS BOBs... they're good, they work, I've tested them out.
- Tarp Clips...
- Survival Kit... I put this in a water proof bag with some storm matches a laminated family picture.
- Fishing Auto Reels...
- Any Fuel Lighters... these are fun. If you have a combustible fuel (gas, kero, prop/but, melted fat, diesel, rubbing alcohol, high proof liquor, etc) it'll work in these. They're about 3" long by 0.5" wide and barely weigh anything. Just keep in mind that they're not leak proof, but they'll give you enough of a flame to heat sterilize, light tinder, etc.
- Mini Knife Sharpener... this is about 1 oz weight and about the size of a normal car key. I used it on one of my folder blades that had gotten dull from whitling and after about 5 minutes could shave my arm hair with the blade. For the size and what it does, this is worth putting in a BOB.
- Field Dressing Knife Kit... that I described earlier, in case I catch a squirrel.

[Fenris]

Hey, in addition to your 550cord and tarp clips, you could add maybe 4 bungee cords for fast tarp placement (or would it be 6.... I forget) Like when the rains really come in fast and unpredictable and such.

-fenris-

[Stormrider]

For some reason when you said just "survival kit" I pictured some cheap thing in a can, but the Ultimate Survival Tech stuff there is awesome.

The auto reels too are pretty neat, I'll have to look for some of those to try out.

[Woods Walker]

I have maps of my area and have wandered around the back trails and roads enough that I'm good. Problem with Maryland is that, at least in the wooded areas, you can't see landmarks. I'll keep my eyes out for that Suunto compass next time I'm in a sports shop

You don't always need to see landmarks as they are on the map. These include artifacts like elevation lines and or roads/rivers. I was a bit uncertain as to my location a few weeks ago. Not lost but didn’t know what mountain I was on and it was getting past 6pm. One hill had a spine along the top and the terrain matched the elevation lines and compass heading so got a bearing on my locations. The trick is to keep an open mind. Don’t force yourself into a belief in a location just because you want it to be true. Trust the compass and map. A major landmark like a stream would be hard to miss with a map and compass but still you could be wrong at first. Again keep an open mind. This is the most basic compass navigation skill and often works well. There are other more advance skills but often I don’t need them. On big pro of the compass is if you keep track of the direction you are walking turning around is easy. Never attempt a so-called short cut to make-up for lost time. If you feel turned around go back the way you came. The faster this decision is reached the better off you will be. Walking 2 miles off course means 4-miles total in your return to known terrain. Most of all don’t be in a rush, best to take things slow.

[Fenris]

Sweet hokey mokey! Are we talking some D+D here, WW:

These include artifacts like levitation lines

?

-fenris-

[Woods Walker]

Sweet hokey mokey! Are we talking some D+D here, WW:

These include artifacts like levitation lines

?

-fenris-

Topographical maps will have lines that indicate elevation changes within the terrain. The steeper the elevation change the closer the lines are. So if you just hiked up a steep hill the lines will be near to each other. If there are no hills in the area that are very steep and the compass matches than there is a good chance the location can be determined with varying degrees of accuracy. A larger landmark like a ridgeline will be very clear on a topographical map and the same apples to the direction of the ridge. So in this case you maybe spot on. But as stated there is a possibility of being wrong if you have lost all bearings. You need to take all available factors into consideration with an open mind that has no preconceptions as to your current location. In short trust the evidence available and not what you want to be true. Also I am no expert on navigation so naturally a master might disagree. Expertise in any discipline can take a life time.

[Woods Walker]

Another big pro to a topographic map is that if I establish my location I can avoid certain impassable geographical features before hiking to the location. For example if I see the lines packed so near they are almost a smug on the map than I can with some degree of certainty access that this is a cliff. I can go around this feature in advance without hiking to the location only to be forced to backtrack. Some features like a narrow spine on a Mt. are so obvious and more so if there are no other spines in the area as to be strong evidence as to your location and more so if the spine runs in the same direction as the compass is indicating. This trick allowed me to determine what mountain I was on during my trip. Still I had a night hike to look forward too. But sure felt nice to know what to expect.

[Fenris]

So didn't you mean "elevation" rather than "levitation?"

*nudges you with an elbow* Y'know I'm messing with ya, right?

-fenris-

[Y.T.]

everything WW said. and my maps always levitate, don't yours?

Another nice thing about a compass is that it allows you to set up your camp according to sunrise or prevailing winds. So you can position the tent in a way that gives it the most shade (or sun). Or in a way that causes the least wind resistance and therefore makes you better able to fare storms. Depending on where the site is and what time you arrive, you can't always guess this just by the sun or by landmarks.

[Woods Walker]

So didn't you mean "elevation" rather than "levitation?"

*nudges you with an elbow* Y'know I'm messing with ya, right?

-fenris-

Yea. I used the correct word in my other posts so guessing it was a spell checking thing. I got the grammar of spelling skills of a 5-year old. Think I will go back and find the error.

[Y.T.]

oh, and gees, I forgot to say sorry to hear about the extreme vandalism! that's some crazy, out-there stuff. Was this personal or were you just the unlucky recipient of their New Years Eve funtime?

[Woods Walker]

everything WW said. and my maps always levitate, don't yours?

Another nice thing about a compass is that it allows you to set up your camp according to sunrise or prevailing winds. So you can position the tent in a way that gives it the most shade (or sun). Or in a way that causes the least wind resistance and therefore makes you better able to fare storms. Depending on where the site is and what time you arrive, you can't always guess this just by the sun or by landmarks.

The sun works great but sometimes it is MIA as stated. The best way to determine prevailing winds is by smoke from a camp fire. But keep in mind that if the smoke is going north than it is being pushed by a southern air mass. So in fact what we have is a southern front if my memory is correct. It is easier to determine these things in the field rather than next to my lap top. Warmer temps in my area but could mean a change in weather and if there is other evidence such as a ring around the moon this assumption could be reinforced. Sounds like witch craft but sometimes it works

[Fenris]

hey, WW, do you happen to remember what that ring around the sun's called, offchance?

-fenris-

[Woods Walker]

hey, WW, do you happen to remember what that ring around the sun's called, offchance?

-fenris-

I believe the ring around the moon is a result of ice crystals high in the atmosphere but got no clue what it is called. It has worked for me in the past to sort of predict somekinda change in the weather.

edit.

Betting there is a ring around the sun too but it would not be visible. I only use the sun for direction which as stated is sometimes MIA but guessing it is still in the solar system.

EricinMaryland

I hope you don't mind all these side discussions involving weather and maps. On topic I would still suggest two hiking poles considering the pack's weight but you could also cut a walking stick on the fly. Maybe consider some athletic wrap to reinforce an injured knee etc..

[Squirrley]

How the heck does a compass help you with figuring out the prevailing wind? The only way I've found is to sit down for a couple minutes and observe the wind direction, and which way the clouds are moving.

[EricinVirginia]

Hey, this is awesome. I never thought about orienting my shelter to max/min sun exposure but it makes sense. The topo maps help... I've been looking for one to mark railroad routes on. My own personal PAW belief is that railroads become the only stable and surviving overland route, with the exception of bridges. I've never seen an apocalypse movie based on this, but a Larry Niven book called Lucifer's Hammer talked about survivors following railroad tracks because of flooding and congestion along major roadways. As I've thought about that, it kind of makes sense. My BOL is accessible via rail lines.

I always thought that camp fire smoke blew wherever your face happened to be. But if you have a compass and see the wind direction trending in a certain direction, it makes sense that would tell you something as well. In my case, I'm at the level of... "Okay, so it's trending in that direction

The halo around the sun/moon is called the corona. In the case of the sun, it's ignited plasma from the sun's surface. In the case of the moon, it's indicative of high level stuff way up in the atmosphere and usually means you're on the edge of a high pressure - hp - zone. Stuff could be smoke, ice, and other things that will lead to weather. Problem is that unless you've been charting wind (another use for a compass?) it'd be impossible to tell which side of a HP zone you're in. Ground wind doesn't necessarily blow in the same direction as a HP zone's movement. Nice thing about HP is that they usually equal bright and clear weather. Bad thing is that they're chased by stormy weather. I'm remembering this stuff from college... so I'm probably full of bullshit.

Auto-reels are fun. I highly recommend them. Fishing itself is a bit boring for me, but my kids love it. I love the idea of set and forget. If you get them, you'll want to treat the really low quality waxxed thread on the reels as just that. I tied kite hooks to them for quick detach of actual fishing line. If you dry the thread out, it's good but otherwise it mildews up pretty fast. As I use them, I plan on respooling with actual fishing line. We're just doing catch and release, but having a few of these ensures that the kids go fishing and see an actual fish get caught. It's harder than you think when they're also tossing rocks and sticks in the water... and your dog is retrieving sticks from the water nearby.

I think the car was vandalized by stupid kids in the neighborhood being stupid. The police think it was someone I may have fired. I'm not sure. In the case of a terminated employee, I think they would have done my other car, or done it a lot sooner, and would have left some kind of (not so) subtle message. We were out walking our dog that night at 11:30 pm and he started freaking out along the forest trail in this one spot. I'm guessing he smelled/sensed kids up to shennanigans.

Find me a levitation BOB... that'd be worth it's price in gold!