AT trip/gear report. 56k warning.

[Woods Walker]

I don’t actually go into any of my sleeping bags unless it gets below 10ish. The bag makes for a great quilt as it zippers down the center. I keep the feet in the lower section and unzip ¾ as a quilt. If you have good insulation between you and the ground this works in winter too. I also hate to sleep like a mummy. I have been spending time reorganizing all my BOBs to update my original BOB post. Got my weights below 30 lbs for winter including food and water. After that I will work on the stove project but must have 4 packable wood stoves on hand right now.

[northernxposure]

30# including food/water for a bomb-proof winter BOB? That's amazing. I think the combination of my shelter and bag/clothes would easily hit 30# out of the gate, not to mention a heating utility, food, and all the extras that add up.

I think I'll chase down that overstuffed LL bag for a quilt. It's about 10oz heavier than I'd like it to be, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think it'll be a hindrance when compared to my current syn bag (4+# for 15deg). I was looking at the pulk you and Mags use for winter travel and I'm definitely going to pursue something like them for this winter's hunting trips, should make transport much easier. Now to find an extra hundred dollars in the midst of all the holiday purchasing...

[jealous] 4 fancy collapsible woodstoves. [/jealous]

NXP

[Woods Walker]

30# including food/water for a bomb-proof winter BOB? That's amazing. I think the combination of my shelter and bag/clothes would easily hit 30# out of the gate, not to mention a heating utility, food, and all the extras that add up.

I think I'll chase down that overstuffed LL bag for a quilt. It's about 10oz heavier than I'd like it to be, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think it'll be a hindrance when compared to my current syn bag (4+# for 15deg). I was looking at the pulk you and Mags use for winter travel and I'm definitely going to pursue something like them for this winter's hunting trips, should make transport much easier. Now to find an extra hundred dollars in the midst of all the holiday purchasing...

[jealous] 4 fancy collapsible woodstoves. [/jealous]

NXP

To drop the weight I took much of the lesions learned on the AT/ winter camping trips and applied it to the BOB. Going to update my BOB thread with all my BOBs soon. As for the bag the extra 10 oz will only be a good thing as it means more insulation and is well worth the weight.

[Woods Walker]

Packing up right now for another trip. The darn pack is getting heavy as once again looking to hump shelter and food for two. Gotta give the old man a break. Looking at only maybe 10-15 miles but somehow feel I am going to pay for this heavy pack.

[91xlt]

i am already looking forward to the trip report

i am asking santa for a camera this year, i NEED to start documenting my outings much more along the lines you do WOODS!
always a pleasure reading your posts/threads...and looking at the pics

[Woods Walker]

Part 8.

After reviewing the map I discovered that 4.5 miles of the AT in my state were missed. So hiked out late around 2ish pm. The weather was overcast and seasonable. Hiked to the blue trail junction point which meant an additional ½ mile to the camping area indicated on the map. No real overlooks and most of the leaves have fallen.



The trail map indicated something called the Giant’s Thumb. So expected some kinda hump or mountain but discovered this freak rock and clearly an accent was not in order. Looks like a giant’s thumb to me. I got no clue as to the geological forces that created this. We speculated everything from an upside down glacial erratic to a weathered limestone feature but still unsure.





Took along the Kifaru 4-man tipi, Downmat 9DLX and small stove. The pack was a bit on the heavy side for pure hiking. Still the stove worked great. Covered up the gaps on the ground with leaf litter to keep the wind out as it was blowing at a good clip and judging from the direction of the smoke it was coming from the south.



Always dry my socks during the night.



Gear used:

It was dark by the time we made it to the blue trail going into the campsite/lean-too area not that I considered sleeping in that as packed my Kifaru 4-man tipi/small stove. There is nothing better in cooler weather in my view. We had a night hike and the trail was covered in leaf litter with markers few and far between. Added to that was an accent down a steep ledge. With the overcast conditions some headlamps and flashlights were in order. The headlamps worked great around camp but needed the greater throw from the flashlight to keep from getting turned around. We emptied the packs and clearly had plenty.



I was packing the Olight T10, ZLH501w headlamp, E01 and iTP 3-mode EOS. The T10 puts out 190 lumens using 1XCR123. The E01 was used with a diffuser for a tipi light and the iTP is my EDC so was inside the pocket. My uncle had a Fenix LD20, PT Quad headlamp, Petzl E-lite and an E01. The PT Quad is a good regulated headlamp using 3XAAA. My Rebel EOS is better but he wanted one that used 4x5mm LEDs. It has a battery power indicator and puts out 45 lumens. The LD20 lights up the woods with 180 lumens using 2XAA. I gave him all the lights for gifts minus the E-lite and I never owned one so can’t comment on it. We were packing a few lights too many but it was fun messing around with them and darn right useful hiking in the pitch black.

Bushcraft tricks.



It is getting late in the season for forage but found some more Tinder fungus and nuts from the Pignut Hickory tree. These differ from other species I normally pick as the nuts are smaller but like their larger counterparts are edible. When ripe the husk turns black and the nut falls free. Avoid green husks as these are very bitter.

http://www.sfrc.ufl.edu/4h/Pignut_hickory/pignhick.htm

That is about it for this trip. The pack was overloaded as I carried shelter and food for two people but always give the old guy a break. It was just an overnighter/10-mile round trip.

[Woods Walker]

Setting off tomorrow for another trip. The weather looks like it’s going to be evil. My EMR is up to my gut with snow collar extended. It must be 60 lbs and this is going to hurt. Packing a heated shelter with more airtight stove and food for two guys/two days is hard but can’t expect someone nearly 70 years to hump his share. Layering the clothing and cracking out the winter boots and micro spikes just in case.

[Woods Walker]

I am back. What the heck was up with that crazy storm? It stated off with snow turned to cold evil nasty rain and got all spooky ending with a bizarre thunder storm mixed into a 40 degree mist. There were 6-inches of slush under foot that froze up the 2nd day with wind and colder temps but at least it was dry that night. I would have preferred -20F over that BS. Despite all of that we still managed 11 miles which doesn’t sound all that impressive for two days but sure seemed more like 25. I have a pile of photos for the last two trips with gear reports and will update.

Edit.

Working on part 9 and part 10 right now.

[cg3006]

How well does that 4-man pack? What size stove do you use in it? I have thinking about getting a paratarp and the small stove for when I solo. And maybe the 4 man and using the small stove in it for when I can convince the wife to go along. I know I would need to get a bigger pipe for it. Just wondering what combo you were running with the 4 man and what you thought of running a 4man/small stove combo if that's not what you are using. Sorry for the rambling and thanx for the info.

[Woods Walker]

How well does that 4-man pack? What size stove do you use in it? I have thinking about getting a paratarp and the small stove for when I solo. And maybe the 4 man and using the small stove in it for when I can convince the wife to go along. I know I would need to get a bigger pipe for it. Just wondering what combo you were running with the 4 man and what you thought of running a 4man/small stove combo if that's not what you are using. Sorry for the rambling and thanx for the info.

It packs down good given the floor space. I use the small stove with both the 4-man and Paratipi. This time I was using a homemade stove.

[Tony13]

Wonderful write up Woods Walker, im incredibly jealous, I have such an urge to take a few days off and do the whole AT up here in Mass now. Thanks again for the great gear review and scenery photos.

[Woods Walker]

Part 9.

A few weeks before my last trip did a 7-mile dayhike on the AT. It gets dark fast so walked the last few miles at night. The higher elevations are covered in softwood and Chestnut Oak which is my favorite woodland. I was able to get a good lay of the land.



Pigmy Pitch pine. It doesn’t look like much but this tree has probably been there for a long time.



Gear used.

What’s in my pockets? EDC woodland addition.



1. Trail map.
2. iTP EOS 3-mode 1XAAA flashlight.
3. Nitecore EX10 1XCR123 flashlight.
4. Kershaw Leek pocket knife.
5. AMT .380 pistol.
6. Red Bic lighter.

Most of this is my EDC so just because I am in the woods is no reason to leave this stuff home. They don’t call it Every Day Carry for nothing. I don’t normally walk around with two flashlights but being in the woods at night is a bit more serious than walking down a dark driveway. Pack two you have one, pack one you may have none. I did have a headlamp in the pack as depend on these more than flashlights. I also had a small knife in the daypack. The .380 was taken along for protection against mice, red squirrels and other rodents. The red Bic lighter is easy to find if dropped. I have 3 ways to start a fire in my green Bag-O-Survival or BOS. Like we need another term This is not the best possible combo of gear to have inside my pockets but the point is to have someone thing on your person incase separated from the pack. The cell phone, truck keys and wallet are inside my pack to ensure they will not get dropped.

UM21 patrol pack.



This came with my UM21 system and is a fair daypack. I added a Molle side pocket to back webbing. This makes the pack work so much better. The glass jar of peanuts isn’t mine but wasn’t going to turn them down.

Pocket Rocket with 4-season iso/pro canister and larger MSR Ti pot.



I was hiking with two people so the little MSR Ti kettle wouldn’t cut it. Cooked up some rice and tossed in the remaining pepperoni.

Going to work on part 10 right now

[Woods Walker]

Part 10.

Pushed off mid week for a 2-day trip and once again my uncle came along. I was a bit worried about this as he is older but the guy sure impressed me. I was taking on the majority of the load. The EMR turned into a monster, must have been 60+ pounds.



We mixed it up this time. First parked the car and day hiked for a few hours in the opposite direction as wanted to check out this area too.



Returned to the car for the larger packs and headed out. This meant we setup in the dark. Still it was only 5pm and decided to do a night hike.



No way would I want to venture off trail into the mountain laurels. Once made that mistake and got trapped for hours. With the storm predicted to hit around 1am a night hike was a bit risky but started off early enough. I did screw one thing up. Normally I can use the ankle high insulated hiking shoes, gaiters and warm wool socks late Fall at elevation but forgot the gaiters and paid the price. Still the wool socks kept my feet warm despite being wet. It was a screw up and should have known better.

At lower elevation there wasn’t any snow the first night. Mountains make their own weather so conditions at the base and summit maybe very different and it doesn’t have to be Mount Everest. In any case having the camp setup was pure gold. Just needed to get wood and fire up the homemade stove.




Wet wood and still air makes for a big column of smoke.



The weather moving in.



It was a crazy night. High winds, heavy snow, freezing rain and cold hard rain to top it off. The combo was so heavy that despite attempts to police the shelter the pole got driven into the ground 5-inches and the sides compressed under the load. I must have lost 30% of my floor space.



Looks like the tipi is under 3 feet of snow but this is 6-inches of pure New England slush. There was windblown woodland litter all over the place. No question in my mind that a properly made Silnyon tipi can take a pounding. It is important to dig out any shelter ASAP. If the temperatures drop the shelter could become frozen in place. The air was heavy and wood wet so like the previous night the stove pumped out the smoke.



Weather turned a bit funky with a 40 degree misty thunder storm ending in cold windy conditions. The slush froze up so limited the hiking. Spent the night in an AT lean-to shelter.



Gear used.

1. Kifaru EMR.

https://www.kifaru.net/EMR.html

This was the only pack I own that has the capacity to handle the bulk. Worked out well but a heavy pack is still heavy.

2. Kifaru E&E.

https://www.kifaru.net/escape-evade.html



Worked well for a daypack. I was able to pack a Naglene, Golite poncho and Green Bag-O-Survival aka BOS. Yea there I go again. Just don’t overload this little pack with too many pockets.

3. Kahtoola Micro spike.

Here is my ZS review. Super human traction.

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=39599

That is about it. We covered 11 miles in two days. Given the weather that was enough.

[thegrinninfin]

I have nothing that I could possibly add, except that I hate missing your posts so much that I need to add a message, just so I can keep tabs on them!

[Flint]

Great pics, good report.
Thanks for sharing.

Flint

[aa1pr]

Since I am a newbie what is a 56K warning? I always try to read the excellent post Woods Walker provides but somehow fail to see the correlation.

[joekaveh]

Since I am a newbie what is a 56K warning? I always try to read the excellent post Woods Walker provides but somehow fail to see the correlation.

As hard as it is to believe, there are some people who still use internet connections from 10~ years ago (or more). So if they were to open a post up with lots of pictures on it, they would have to spend....hours? waiting for pictures to load in some cases. So anytime you see someone warning 56k users, its to alert them to the pictures that lie ahead.

[northernxposure]

Not only that, but some of us also use the mobile internet on our phones, and large pictures can bring the scaled down browser software to it's knees. It's a great heads up to get your rear to a land-line so you can enjoy the items inside...

Once again WW, fantastic trip. Glad to see you had as much fun with the weather as we did over here...

NXP

[aa1pr]

Since I am a newbie what is a 56K warning? I always try to read the excellent post Woods Walker provides but somehow fail to see the correlation.

As hard as it is to believe, there are some people who still use internet connections from 10~ years ago (or more). So if they were to open a post up with lots of pictures on it, they would have to spend....hours? waiting for pictures to load in some cases. So anytime you see someone warning 56k users, its to alert them to the pictures that lie ahead.

Thank you as that never crossed my mind, DUh

[Woods Walker]

Glad to see you had as much fun with the weather as we did over here...

I was camped in the Hemlocks so felt at home. Softwoods will drop the occasional wake me up pile-o-snow but like them best in the winter for many reasons. Still I would rather deal with dry sub zero then that crap.

[CLEAR CUT]

Awesome thread, Woods. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: You've got some of the best gear I've seen posted on these forums and you actually use it.

[Woods Walker]

Thanks for the remarks Clear Cut.

Part 11:

New Year’s Eve hike/camping overnighter.

I had to work New Year's Day but not New Year's Eve. Got offers to go out and drink like a fool but wanted to send the decade out in style. I got a late start after dinner with family/friends. Headed off trail into the dark woods.



There wasn’t much snow on deck do to some melt but the temps fell and snow was moving in. It was maybe in the upper 20’s with light snow which is ok weather in my book. The shelter was up with stove running by 11:30 pm. Timing was good.



Gear used.

Down vs. synthetic sleeping bag has been hashed over like AK vs. AR. How about down and synthetic? Not saying this is mixing chocolate and peanut butter but worked for me. I used a USGI green patrol outer bag with a UL down V-bag. For these temps the combo was almost too warm so ended up using them like a quilt.



Fenix HP20 headlamp with PT headband.

I did a review of this new headlamp here:

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=56834

But the review lacked a true overnight field test so took it along. I am depended on headlamps for hiking or setting up in the dark. The headlamp worked perfectly. The 4-lumen low was enough to setup a Paratipi/small stove camp and the 48 lumen medium was more than enough for the off trail night hike. Didn’t use the 105 high much as it was overkill for this application.



Had to hike out fast at day break. A good way to ring in the New Year.

[zippoxiii]

Nice thread. Someone on here (I forget who) said that your threads and trips/pictures are inspiring, I just have to completely agree with that. Your trips would make anyone want to get out and experience the great outdoors.

Also excellent choice of not blowing your brains out with alcohol on new year's eve. You instead chose to go out and make an adventure for yourself, and that's admirable.

[Woods Walker]

Part 12:

Pulk sled on the AT.

I took off Sunday for a few days on the AT with the pulk. It was a bit colder than expected but still a good time.

Pulk loaded and ready.



I have my EMR and USGI medium ALICE pack on the sled. For traction I used Micro spikes and Atlas snow shoe hiking poles. The waterproof insulated winter boots are mandatory. I used a Molle 1 vest and belt system for a pulk harness.



One of the advantages of a Molle belt/vest is pockets can be attached and offers easy access to gear such as my wide mouth Nalgene. I don’t much care for the Molle pack system but for this application it works very well.



There as a pile-o-gear in this camp and normally without a sled wouldn’t attempt to pack in so much. I intended to stay for a few days so the longer than normal setup time wasn’t a big issue. The sled is unpacked and starting to cut wood for the stove. Unfortunately there wasn’t that much dead fall or standing deadwood in the area. There was some heavy rain just before the cold snap and some of the wood was frozen. I paid for this an hour after taking the photo.



The wood was a bitch to get going as the stove was forced to boil out the water content and this reduced the total BTU output. Once going it was acceptable but still it was hard to get the tipi up to T-shirt temperatures.



The homemade robber should have been 100% cherry red but this was about it.



I took my Thermarest, Multi Mat and poncho liner for the hang out/cooking area as weight wasn’t an issue.



For a sleep system it was a -15ish fluffy down bag, Downmat 9DLX and EMS nylon ground cloth. Oh man that sleeping bag was warm.



Winter meal:



1. Beans & Rice mix.
2. Packet of pepperoni, this is not the time for low calories.
3. Hot chocolate mix and marshmallows just for fun.
4. Trail bar.
5. High calorie cookie snack.

It cooked up good on the homemade wood stove.



For extra warmth and light I used a candle lantern. Normally avoid unvented flame inside a tent but this is the exception. All the same care should be taken. The lantern should be hung up rather than standing and some air intake for the flame should be taken into consideration in my view.



Breaking camp took some time due to the extra gear. The tipi has been fitted with a liner for reduced condensation and drafts.



Back country winter comfort and survival issues:

Here is a mostly frozen river.





My advice is to avoid this at all costs. We have all seen Man vs. Wild and watched Bear put himself in unnecessary danger messing around with crap like this but keep in mind that is pure entertainment within a controlled situation. If you go out on that and the ice gives way the river will suck you under. I guarantee death.

Here is something that has gotten the better of me in the past. Rather than melting snow I took water from frozen streams like this.



It‘s easy to slip and flop right though the ice. It has happened to me before and even a foot of water will soak a person more than you might expect. Don’t think there is any control once balance is lost. So take extra care when crossing or getting water from streams like these. Given the right set of circumstances even a little accident can put the hurt on.

Understanding why some areas can be colder than the weather forecast:

I expected temperatures to be around 5F in this area but it got colder. Why? I am no expert on the weather so the factors listed are based on field experience.

1. Snow and ice on the ground. This will reflect the sun’s warm and less heat is absorbed by the ground. There wasn’t a deep base but just the same I had snow cover.
2. Cold air mass. The area was under the influence of a large northern air mass on Sunday night. This let up some on Monday but was a factor for the bottom falling out Sunday.
3. No cloud cover. It was crystal clear Sunday night so any warmth that didn’t get reflected by the snow cover simply evaporated.
4. Local geology. A valley surrounded by hills.



Cold air settles into places like this as it drifts down the hills. During the day it’s colder and this doesn’t get any better at night. To add injury to insult often there is less direct sunlight.

Given that all four of these factors were met the temperatures dropped in this local area by more than forecasted. There are a few things that can be done to mitigate some of this but at times you just need to roll with it.

1. Get out of lower areas that the cold will settle into. I know it’s counterintuitive to think being a bit higher up can be warmer however this has been my experience.
2. Setup camp in a location that receives the most sunlight. The sun rises in the east and is in the south at mid day. Having the sun hit your camp in the AM and afternoon is a big help. Look for areas that shows greater snow melt such as dry rocks etc. Places that don’t get enough sunlight will often have more snow as even the correct orientation may not help if the light is blocked.

Winter camping tricks:

1. If using tent stakes on frozen ground don’t drive them in too deep. Leave a few inches exposed like this.



Often stakes will get frozen into the ground. To free them take a hatchet, hammer or whatever and give a few taps to drive them an inch more. This will break the ice.



2. Get a larger stuff sack for your shelter. Here is an old sleeping bag stuff sack that is sometimes used for my Tipi/liner combo.



Why? Most stuff sacks are hard enough in summer to work with as often people buy shelters based on weight and pack size so there is an incentive for manufactures to get the smallest sack possible. But once a shelter gets iced over from either weather or condensation it’s very hard to stuff into the small factory sack and gloved hands often lack the dexterity.

3. For the most part insulation of any sleep system is based on loft. There is no loft under a sleeping bag so get a ground pad. Many people ask if wearing a jacket inside the bag will increase its rating. Saying yes would seem like a no brainer but don’t be so sure. If the jacket is damp from the day this will come back to haunt you as even if it doesn’t feel wet or damp, in the cold sometimes this is harder to determine. As stated gear makers are looking to reduce weight and pack size. Some bags are tighter fitting as a result. Toss too much extra clothing items like a jacket and you risk compressing the insulation of both. My advice it is pack a bag rated lower than expected. My personal preference is for a hat, warm socks and sometimes a base layer.

Gear used.

Exped Multi Mat. This is not to be used as a ground pad alone for winter but makes a good insulated ground cover.

http://www.rei.com/product/748726

UCO candle lantern. One of the few things that works better in the cold.

http://candlelantern.com/

Paris expedition sled. A good sled made in the USA. The poles and attachment hardware are by Skipulk.

http://www.rei.com/product/609482

http://www.skipulk.com/

Atlas snow shoe hiking poles. These are made for Cabelas and at 29.99 hard to beat.

http://www.cabelas.com/p-0022494.shtml

I am swamped with work and will have to stay in for the next few weeks.