Does anyone here believe they can...

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Yortus Mugwortus
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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by Yortus Mugwortus » Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:27 am

"Nature provides...", is more or less true depending on what wilds we are talking about, and I ultimately believe that knowledge, ingenuity, and attitude are much more important than any gear, which I believe are ultimately luxuries that we only think we need, and that are the result of our fear of uncertainty, and that rob us little by little of the true challenge and joy of living. We were all brought up to value comfort and convenience here in the US, but I think that all of us desire to be much more than society will encourage by default. Instead of living in small communities in harmony with nature and each other, relying on the wilds as well as our gardens, we enslave ourselves to our irrational fears of the dark, the cold, the animals, and even each other. We isolate ourselves from the things we say we love. At the slightest cool breeze we throw on a sweater, at the lightest rain we break out the umbrella or take refuge indoors and watch TV, and at the slightest stomach growl we drive to McDonald's. We are losing our ancestries, our heritages, our self-respect, and as a result, we are losing the ability to exist in what wilds we were once at one with that remain. What we should fear the most is our ability to join together in our weaknesses and tell each other we are right to be motivated by fear, but we all know we aren't. We should instead be motivated by concern for the well-being of our natural planet AND for each other, and ways in which to truly live our lives. We have all lost touch with wilderness, we have all lost touch with community, and we have all lost touch with ourselves. We all know we have lost touch with what it means to be truly alive, but we all pretend, because we are all lost, that we are not alone, and that that means that we are ok. But we aren't. We are all infected by industrial disease and we continuously infect each other with our disease. We revel in the vileness that is our downfall, all the while laughing, mocking, and scoffing at any attempt to make life better. The disease is stupidity and fear and complacency. We are substituting nature with cement, at an ever increasing rate. We are all turning our Earth into a place where it is increasingly impossible to feel at home in the wilds, or even to find them, and we all know better, but who actually cares? Humans are pathetic in that they are the only ones who destroy natural habitat. Q: For what? A: So that our great grandchildren will have no wilds to go to, no clean water to drink, no clean air to breathe, and no dignity. They will blame us, and they will hate us, and rightly so, for we are weak and stupid and afraid to pass on to them what it truly means to be alive. But they will be smarter than us, and they will find a way, or so we tell ourselves, in our weakness, and in our vileness. As long as we continue to revel in being motivated by stupidity and fear, the past will always be a better time to be alive.
That's enough out of me for now.

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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by goblin » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:24 am

OoooKaaaaay then!!... Next! :?
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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by the_alias » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:36 pm

Yortus Mugwortus wrote:"Nature provides...", is more or less true depending on what wilds we are talking about, and I ultimately believe that knowledge, ingenuity, and attitude are much more important than any gear, which I believe are ultimately luxuries that we only think we need, and that are the result of our fear of uncertainty, and that rob us little by little of the true challenge and joy of living. We were all brought up to value comfort and convenience here in the US, but I think that all of us desire to be much more than society will encourage by default. Instead of living in small communities in harmony with nature and each other, relying on the wilds as well as our gardens, we enslave ourselves to our irrational fears of the dark, the cold, the animals, and even each other. We isolate ourselves from the things we say we love. At the slightest cool breeze we throw on a sweater, at the lightest rain we break out the umbrella or take refuge indoors and watch TV, and at the slightest stomach growl we drive to McDonald's. We are losing our ancestries, our heritages, our self-respect, and as a result, we are losing the ability to exist in what wilds we were once at one with that remain. What we should fear the most is our ability to join together in our weaknesses and tell each other we are right to be motivated by fear, but we all know we aren't. We should instead be motivated by concern for the well-being of our natural planet AND for each other, and ways in which to truly live our lives. We have all lost touch with wilderness, we have all lost touch with community, and we have all lost touch with ourselves. We all know we have lost touch with what it means to be truly alive, but we all pretend, because we are all lost, that we are not alone, and that that means that we are ok. But we aren't. We are all infected by industrial disease and we continuously infect each other with our disease. We revel in the vileness that is our downfall, all the while laughing, mocking, and scoffing at any attempt to make life better. The disease is stupidity and fear and complacency. We are substituting nature with cement, at an ever increasing rate. We are all turning our Earth into a place where it is increasingly impossible to feel at home in the wilds, or even to find them, and we all know better, but who actually cares? Humans are pathetic in that they are the only ones who destroy natural habitat. Q: For what? A: So that our great grandchildren will have no wilds to go to, no clean water to drink, no clean air to breathe, and no dignity. They will blame us, and they will hate us, and rightly so, for we are weak and stupid and afraid to pass on to them what it truly means to be alive. But they will be smarter than us, and they will find a way, or so we tell ourselves, in our weakness, and in our vileness. As long as we continue to revel in being motivated by stupidity and fear, the past will always be a better time to be alive.
That's enough out of me for now.
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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by dani monster » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:25 pm

Shouldn't this be moved to a more appropriate location. Like, say... the "What Would You Do?" Forum?

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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by Blast » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:34 pm

Humans are pathetic in that they are the only ones who destroy natural habitat.
BZZZT!! Wrong! Yeast reproduces until it kills itself off with it own urine (Mmmm beer/wine...). Rabbits will strip an island down to rock. Heck, Earth's original bacteria killed itself off when they converted the planet over to an oxygen atmosphere. There are many instances where a species other than man killed itself off by ruining it's environment.

We aren't the only ones and to think so shows a definate lack of understanding biology, ecology, and history.

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p.s. A lot of the younger members on this forum may not realize it, but the USA is a lot cleaner than it was thirty years ago.

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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by Ad'lan » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:40 pm

Even our Hunter Gatherer Ancestors changed the landscape. Some theories suggest wea re in part responsible for the extinction of several kinds of megafauna. We Know They were in some cases.

The Important thing is to try and preserve as much as possible, to adapt the modern world so that wilderness remains.

And Terraform mars, into fresh wilderness. :D
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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by Blast » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:19 pm

+1 on terraforming Mars. There's a couple of Jovian satellites that might also be made habitable! I'd go, given the chance.

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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by Paragon » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:40 pm

Blast wrote:
Yortus Mugwortus wrote:Humans are pathetic in that they are the only ones who destroy natural habitat.
BZZZT!! Wrong! There are many instances where a species other than man killed itself off by ruining it's environment.

We aren't the only ones and to think so shows a definate lack of understanding biology, ecology, and history.
Yortus,

I would go one step further and point out that you'd have a very difficult time citing any species other than humans that could be considered environmentally responsible, or exercise any form of conservation of nature.

Jim

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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by Yortus Mugwortus » Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:47 pm

Blast wrote:
BZZZT!! Wrong! Yeast reproduces until it kills itself off with it own urine (Mmmm beer/wine...). Rabbits will strip an island down to rock. Heck, Earth's original bacteria killed itself off when they converted the planet over to an oxygen atmosphere. There are many instances where a species other than man killed itself off by ruining it's environment.

We aren't the only ones and to think so shows a definate lack of understanding biology, ecology, and history.

-Blast

p.s. A lot of the younger members on this forum may not realize it, but the USA is a lot cleaner than it was thirty years ago.
I did not say that only or all humans..., but:
Yeast that does that is confined by man in containers. Yeast lives its complete life cycle in nature. The only rabbits that strip lands are those invasive species introduced by man (Example: Australia's rabbit-proof fence). Native rabbits do not strip land. Same goes for cattle, which man is responsible for introducing into places where all they do is turn grassland into desert. Cattle companies slash and burn forests so that cattle can graze on one season of herbage. Vast tracts of tropical rainforest (once prime wilderness survival territory) are being turned into deserts. I'm not talking about something that happened last century, I'm talking about what is happening right now, just so we can have a cheese burger at McDonald's. In my opinion it's not worth it, so I don't eat there anymore. I only eat local beef. That way, if you want to live indefinitely in the wilderness in South America, you won't blame me when you realize that in many places you can't anymore because of the beef industry. Point being, that if all humans were worth there salt, all humans would still be hunter-gatherers. I wish we were all hunter-gatherers, but we all need to get involved in PERMACULTURE to make a positive change on this planet.
The bacteria you are talking about had survivors that adapted to the new environment.
Man is destroying the planet with habitat destruction, pollution, globalization, urbanization, and you know it. Maybe my words are a bit pessimistic though. But in any case, to say that along with having opposable thumbs does not carry along a sense of responsibility to wilderness, is ridiculous and is not worth arguing.
I can appeal to the reason of an already reasonable man, and I can appeal to sensibilities already in place, hell... I can even appeal to his fear of not being a part of whatever majority exists, but I cannot turn an idiot into a genius. I'm not implying that you are an idiot, it's just a saying.

If by a lot cleaner you mean cleaner then I will agree that air quality seems to have gotten somewhat better. Other than that, I don't think so.
Ad'lan wrote:Even our Hunter Gatherer Ancestors changed the landscape. Some theories suggest wea re in part responsible for the extinction of several kinds of megafauna. We Know They were in some cases.

The Important thing is to try and preserve as much as possible, to adapt the modern world so that wilderness remains.

And Terraform mars, into fresh wilderness. :D
Spot on! Except that our hunter-gatherer ancestors changed the landscape in ways harmonious with wilderness. They did not destroy it, and even if some did in some small way, it was not enough that wilderness could not recover. The destruction today is unprecedented and probably irreversible. There is no comparison. The north of Africa was deforested by the Roman Empire. The Middle East was deforested by the Mesopotamians. But the hunter-gatherers left us no such destruction. Why do humans have such a hard time learning from their mistakes? Are they too proud for their own good?
Paragon wrote:
Blast wrote:
Yortus Mugwortus wrote:Humans are pathetic in that they are the only ones who destroy natural habitat.
BZZZT!! Wrong! There are many instances where a species other than man killed itself off by ruining it's environment.

We aren't the only ones and to think so shows a definate lack of understanding biology, ecology, and history.
Yortus,

I would go one step further and point out that you'd have a very difficult time citing any species other than humans that could be considered environmentally responsible, or exercise any form of conservation of nature.

Jim
So you agree we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
Besides, I don't believe that anybody who really loves the idea of surviving in the wilderness indefinitely really disagrees with the gist of what I said, so get off it already, guys.
That said, I will only appologize for not being concise. Think I'm an idiot if you want to, but the shit has already hit the fan, and some of us just don't realize yet that its to time to clean up the mess. :D
I agree that this thread should be moved to an appropriate place.

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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:50 pm

Blast wrote:
Humans are pathetic in that they are the only ones who destroy natural habitat.
BZZZT!! Wrong! Yeast reproduces until it kills itself off with it own urine (Mmmm beer/wine...). Rabbits will strip an island down to rock. Heck, Earth's original bacteria killed itself off when they converted the planet over to an oxygen atmosphere. There are many instances where a species other than man killed itself off by ruining it's environment.

We aren't the only ones and to think so shows a definate lack of understanding biology, ecology, and history.

-Blast

p.s. A lot of the younger members on this forum may not realize it, but the USA is a lot cleaner than it was thirty years ago.
I am old enough to know that the USA is a ton cleaner today. :D
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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by NWmountaineer » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:18 am

Indefinitely? No. There's a reason ancient tribes formed hunter/gatherer societies. There's just a limit on how long you can reasonably make it without back up from your fellow humans.

However, 3-6 months, and maybe one entire season (year) no problem.

Longer than that, I'd push it at 1-2 years, tops. Even the mountain men came in from the cold and traded at rendevous from time to time. Not only for the sustenance factor, but the social factor. Loneliness is a real psychological factor and it is not good for people. The "real" Robinson Carusoe, Alexander Selkirk,survived over four years, completely on his own in the wild, without modern technology or any kind of human contact. However, he nearly wept after being rescued due to the psychological factor of being left in such an isolated state. BTW, he actually ended up feeding the guys who rescued him, which just goes to show, if you've got the right mindset, you can eat better than the guys who aren't prepared.

So basically, I'd say a year. After that, any normal healthy human being is going to need other people to at least replenish their resources or provide social contact.

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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by Ringo » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:18 am

I am of the shared opinion that the outcome of a situation like this, for me, depends largely on what I'm "allowed" to do by circumstance. If the situation would let me get to a point and "settle down," as in, build a semi-permanent structure that largely shelters me from the elements, then yea, I think I could pack up some gear and live pretty much indefinitely. But this goes back to, "well, do I get my truck to go with me as far as it will," and "if this is a 'real' situation, I'm not alone," and etc. But if the question is "can you grab a pack, strike off, stay on the move, and live indefinitely," then no - I don't have the experience for that. It all depends.

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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by spchtr » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:36 am

I dare say that at some time in the past, some animal did in fact kill the last of some other animal species. There were a lot of species that were gone, long before we became any kind of problem for them.
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Re: Does anyone here believe they can...

Post by Ringo Redux » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:37 am

JollyRoger762 wrote:Ab-so-frickin-lutely. I can definitely live the rest of my life out of my backpack.
So can everyone else here.

The real question is: How long would your life be?
This is a great point.

I think another largely dependent issue is this - do you KNOW you are going to be out there for the rest of your life? If someone is put into a "survival" situation that you think will end with you being back in civilization, then your priorities are different - water, a direction to travel, food, temporary shelter (to say nothing of first aid, etc). if you know that "alright, I'm here, and here is where I'll stay," then things get a lot different. If I have the appropriate equipment (and no, not a back-hoe, starbucks, and central air/heating) then its possible. To "survive," I think i'd need the means to create a permanent shelter, a source of water, and the ability to bring food to the hastily-constructed table. All of this is old-hat info on these forums, but what I'm getting at is this; if you KNOW you are out in it forever, then your methods of approach to survival will be different.

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