Has sleeping bag tech changed?

[moab]

I noticed Kelty carrying more synthetic bags and less down. Has there been a shift in the industry?

[RonnyRonin]

the major shift is price pressure.

Most consumers aren't smart enough to know how inflation works, or that it even exists, so they expect to pay the same price year after year after year. To keep prices consistent most consumer grade outdoor gear does get steadily worse; Kelty in particular seems to be cutting more corners than many.

Part of my job is to repair and inspect hundreds of sleeping bags, and the kelty bags I'm seeing come through now are a far cry from the amazing value I found even just a few years ago (say 5 years or so). Cheaper fabrics, cheaper insulations, much simpler construction, less effort to finish seams, lower fill power down when it is used, and off brand zippers that poop the bed far faster than a YKK one.

Its a mixed bag of course, many companies have budget lines and higher end stuff, so I always warn against generalizing by brand. North Face is a great example of this; if you buy a TNF item at dick's sporting goods it is probably only a small upgrade from walmart gear, but if you buy something from a high-end specialty shop or directly online you might be getting the very cutting edge of textile and construction technology.


The long and short of it is that unless you are buying used, there is almost no reason to buy anything but a domestic sleeping bag or quilt; they can even be price competitive with the higher end asian stuff that is actually worth buying, but often with custom options and customer support. Hammock Gear, Enlightened Equipment, and a dozen other places I can't even remember are using high quality down and good shell fabrics, and far better synthetic insulations than most all the imports.


As for actual sleeping bag tech, yes newer and better synthetics do come out fairly often but most improvements are incremental at best, and very few companies really use the good stuff. Most of the tech pushes lately have been for more recycled content rather than more performance, and since almost no one posts their actual lab tests its pretty hard to even say how insulations compare. Safest recommendation is climashield apex; its not the very warmest per weight but it does not require quilting so the end product is warmer and far cheaper than an insulation that requires shingling or offset quilting.

Down is still king of course, and higher fill power is still generally better up to a point. I suspect 800 fill is still the sweet spot, as 900 and 1000 fill power are veeeery moisture sensitive, and even just relative humidity might be enough to drop them back down to 800 fill performance. REI has some pretty nice 850 fill products (both bags and quilts, under the Magma name) that while not cheap are very easy to find used; and use good zippers and shell fabrics. I have one of their 30 degree quilts and it fits in my butt pack for lightfighter trips.

[Lettuce Pray]

the major shift is price pressure.

Most consumers aren't smart enough to know how inflation works, or that it even exists, so they expect to pay the same price year after year after year. To keep prices consistent most consumer grade outdoor gear does get steadily worse; Kelty in particular seems to be cutting more corners than many.

Part of my job is to repair and inspect hundreds of sleeping bags, and the kelty bags I'm seeing come through now are a far cry from the amazing value I found even just a few years ago (say 5 years or so). Cheaper fabrics, cheaper insulations, much simpler construction, less effort to finish seams, lower fill power down when it is used, and off brand zippers that poop the bed far faster than a YKK one.

Its a mixed bag of course, many companies have budget lines and higher end stuff, so I always warn against generalizing by brand. North Face is a great example of this; if you buy a TNF item at dick's sporting goods it is probably only a small upgrade from walmart gear, but if you buy something from a high-end specialty shop or directly online you might be getting the very cutting edge of textile and construction technology.


The long and short of it is that unless you are buying used, there is almost no reason to buy anything but a domestic sleeping bag or quilt; they can even be price competitive with the higher end asian stuff that is actually worth buying, but often with custom options and customer support. Hammock Gear, Enlightened Equipment, and a dozen other places I can't even remember are using high quality down and good shell fabrics, and far better synthetic insulations than most all the imports.


As for actual sleeping bag tech, yes newer and better synthetics do come out fairly often but most improvements are incremental at best, and very few companies really use the good stuff. Most of the tech pushes lately have been for more recycled content rather than more performance, and since almost no one posts their actual lab tests its pretty hard to even say how insulations compare. Safest recommendation is climashield apex; its not the very warmest per weight but it does not require quilting so the end product is warmer and far cheaper than an insulation that requires shingling or offset quilting.

Down is still king of course, and higher fill power is still generally better up to a point. I suspect 800 fill is still the sweet spot, as 900 and 1000 fill power are veeeery moisture sensitive, and even just relative humidity might be enough to drop them back down to 800 fill performance. REI has some pretty nice 850 fill products (both bags and quilts, under the Magma name) that while not cheap are very easy to find used; and use good zippers and shell fabrics. I have one of their 30 degree quilts and it fits in my butt pack for lightfighter trips.

Thanks. That was quite educational. I will keep it in mind. I knew that you did quite a bit on your own projects that you have posted here. Are you self employed in this line of work?

[RonnyRonin]

No, I currently work for a company that does cleaning for a couple big outdoor brands, I run the repair department. Before that I worked for a small outdoor gear repair shop that had warranty contracts with a fair number of outdoor brands. Before that I developed backpacks and tents for a cottage outdoor company.

[Lettuce Pray]

No, I currently work for a company that does cleaning for a couple big outdoor brands, I run the repair department. Before that I worked for a small outdoor gear repair shop that had warranty contracts with a fair number of outdoor brands. Before that I developed backpacks and tents for a cottage outdoor company.

Thanks for the reply and the info!

[MPMalloy]

No, I currently work for a company that does cleaning for a couple big outdoor brands, I run the repair department. Before that I worked for a small outdoor gear repair shop that had warranty contracts with a fair number of outdoor brands. Before that I developed backpacks and tents for a cottage outdoor company.

Wow

[raptor2]

the major shift is price pressure.

Most consumers aren't smart enough to know how inflation works, or that it even exists, so they expect to pay the same price year after year after year. To keep prices consistent most consumer grade outdoor gear does get steadily worse; Kelty in particular seems to be cutting more corners than many.

Part of my job is to repair and inspect hundreds of sleeping bags, and the kelty bags I'm seeing come through now are a far cry from the amazing value I found even just a few years ago (say 5 years or so). Cheaper fabrics, cheaper insulations, much simpler construction, less effort to finish seams, lower fill power down when it is used, and off brand zippers that poop the bed far faster than a YKK one.

Its a mixed bag of course, many companies have budget lines and higher end stuff, so I always warn against generalizing by brand. North Face is a great example of this; if you buy a TNF item at dick's sporting goods it is probably only a small upgrade from walmart gear, but if you buy something from a high-end specialty shop or directly online you might be getting the very cutting edge of textile and construction technology.


The long and short of it is that unless you are buying used, there is almost no reason to buy anything but a domestic sleeping bag or quilt; they can even be price competitive with the higher end asian stuff that is actually worth buying, but often with custom options and customer support. Hammock Gear, Enlightened Equipment, and a dozen other places I can't even remember are using high quality down and good shell fabrics, and far better synthetic insulations than most all the imports.


As for actual sleeping bag tech, yes newer and better synthetics do come out fairly often but most improvements are incremental at best, and very few companies really use the good stuff. Most of the tech pushes lately have been for more recycled content rather than more performance, and since almost no one posts their actual lab tests its pretty hard to even say how insulations compare. Safest recommendation is climashield apex; its not the very warmest per weight but it does not require quilting so the end product is warmer and far cheaper than an insulation that requires shingling or offset quilting.

Down is still king of course, and higher fill power is still generally better up to a point. I suspect 800 fill is still the sweet spot, as 900 and 1000 fill power are veeeery moisture sensitive, and even just relative humidity might be enough to drop them back down to 800 fill performance. REI has some pretty nice 850 fill products (both bags and quilts, under the Magma name) that while not cheap are very easy to find used; and use good zippers and shell fabrics. I have one of their 30 degree quilts and it fits in my butt pack for lightfighter trips.

Great info...Thank you!
In depth knowledge from people with real experience on subject matters like this is why I enjoy this site.

[MPMalloy]

I used a .mil Extended-CW sleeping bag during a Team Spirit in '88. I recommend the shell, & ground mat.

It worked.

[tony d tiger]

Iused a .mil Extended-CW sleeping bag during a Team Spirit in '88. I recommend the shell, & ground mat.

It worked.

Seconded. It took me years to figure out that the sleeping mat goes INSIDE the bivvy bag. Otherwise, you slide off.

[moab]

I used a .mil Extended-CW sleeping bag during a Team Spirit in '88. I recommend the shell, & ground mat.

It worked.

Which bag is that?

I got out in 85. And all we had were vietnam era canvas down cold weather bags. The old heavy ones. I dont remember a bivy. I could be mistaken. Or the USMC was just that cheap.

I did cold weather training at Bridgeport CA. At 13 or 14k ft. We actually got into it with a company commander. Our entire sniper unit of 12 guys walked off the mountain. Stopped at a local restaurant of sorts up in the hills and had burgers. Then walked the rest of the way back to camp. It was many miles. But we knew what we were doing.

[tony d tiger]

I used a .mil Extended-CW sleeping bag during a Team Spirit in '88. I recommend the shell, & ground mat.

It worked.

Which bag is that?

I got out in 85. And all we had were vietnam era canvas down cold weather bags. The old heavy ones. I dont remember a bivy. I could be mistaken. Or the USMC was just that cheap.

I did cold weather training at Bridgeport CA. At 13 or 14k ft. We actually got into it with a company commander. Our entire sniper unit of 12 guys walked off the mountain. Stopped at a local restaurant of sorts up in the hills and had burgers. Then walked the rest of the way back to camp. It was many miles. But we knew what we were doing.

Outer bivvy sack is a goretex shell; inner layer is the heavy black bag; then the light green bag. Fourth piece was the black compression bag to squeeze it all down for movement. I like to toss a woobie in there and just zip the bivvy sack closed for winter camping like so:
https://theprepperjournal.com/2013/08/1 ... iew/?amp=1

[MPMalloy]

I used a .mil Extended-CW sleeping bag during a Team Spirit in '88. I recommend the shell, & ground mat. It worked.

Which bag is that?

I got out in 85. And all we had were vietnam era canvas down cold weather bags. The old heavy ones. I dont remember a bivy. I could be mistaken. Or the USMC was just that cheap.

I did cold weather training at Bridgeport CA. At 13 or 14k ft. We actually got into it with a company commander. Our entire sniper unit of 12 guys walked off the mountain. Stopped at a local restaurant of sorts up in the hills and had burgers. Then walked the rest of the way back to camp. It was many miles. But we knew what we were doing.

Those kind. We didn't have the new stuff either. It had an outer canvas shell you could throw on it.

[moab]

I used a .mil Extended-CW sleeping bag during a Team Spirit in '88. I recommend the shell, & ground mat.

It worked.

Which bag is that?

I got out in 85. And all we had were vietnam era canvas down cold weather bags. The old heavy ones. I dont remember a bivy. I could be mistaken. Or the USMC was just that cheap.

I did cold weather training at Bridgeport CA. At 13 or 14k ft. We actually got into it with a company commander. Our entire sniper unit of 12 guys walked off the mountain. Stopped at a local restaurant of sorts up in the hills and had burgers. Then walked the rest of the way back to camp. It was many miles. But we knew what we were doing.

Outer bivvy sack is a goretex shell; inner layer is the heavy black bag; then the light green bag. Fourth piece was the black compression bag to squeeze it all down for movement. I like to toss a woobie in there and just zip the bivvy sack closed for winter camping like so:
https://theprepperjournal.com/2013/08/1 ... iew/?amp=1

Oh. An MMS. I gotcha. Ya. I was in before thwy issued those. In like 83 or 84 we were still using the old canvas duck bags? I think they called them. We only had to use them in cold weather training. You can still find them surplus. Only good as a spare bag for your cabin or something. You wouldnt want to carry one far.

[MPMalloy]

Only good as a spare bag for your cabin or something. You wouldnt want to carry one far.

Amen

[tony d tiger]

I used a .mil Extended-CW sleeping bag during a Team Spirit in '88. I recommend the shell, & ground mat.

It worked.

Which bag is that?

I got out in 85. And all we had were vietnam era canvas down cold weather bags. The old heavy ones. I dont remember a bivy. I could be mistaken. Or the USMC was just that cheap.

I did cold weather training at Bridgeport CA. At 13 or 14k ft. We actually got into it with a company commander. Our entire sniper unit of 12 guys walked off the mountain. Stopped at a local restaurant of sorts up in the hills and had burgers. Then walked the rest of the way back to camp. It was many miles. But we knew what we were doing.

Outer bivvy sack is a goretex shell; inner layer is the heavy black bag; then the light green bag. Fourth piece was the black compression bag to squeeze it all down for movement. I like to toss a woobie in there and just zip the bivvy sack closed for winter camping like so:
https://theprepperjournal.com/2013/08/1 ... iew/?amp=1

Oh. An MMS. I gotcha. Ya. I was in before thwy issued those. In like 83 or 84 we were still using the old canvas duck bags? I think they called them. We only had to use them in cold weather training. You can still find them surplus. Only good as a spare bag for your cabin or something. You wouldnt want to carry one far.

I was issued on of those as well. Best thing about the down-filled bags was the heavy brass zipper.
The MSS is nice in that each successive layer has zipper snaps to facilitate using only the outer-most zipper should you so choose... provided the will snap into each other (on mine, some do not). It is a big, bulky sleeping bag though, and can be more weight than some would like, compared to,say, a hammock, underquilt, top quilt and tarp system. To each their own, right?

[moab]

Which bag is that?

I got out in 85. And all we had were vietnam era canvas down cold weather bags. The old heavy ones. I dont remember a bivy. I could be mistaken. Or the USMC was just that cheap.

I did cold weather training at Bridgeport CA. At 13 or 14k ft. We actually got into it with a company commander. Our entire sniper unit of 12 guys walked off the mountain. Stopped at a local restaurant of sorts up in the hills and had burgers. Then walked the rest of the way back to camp. It was many miles. But we knew what we were doing.

Outer bivvy sack is a goretex shell; inner layer is the heavy black bag; then the light green bag. Fourth piece was the black compression bag to squeeze it all down for movement. I like to toss a woobie in there and just zip the bivvy sack closed for winter camping like so:
https://theprepperjournal.com/2013/08/1 ... iew/?amp=1

Oh. An MMS. I gotcha. Ya. I was in before thwy issued those. In like 83 or 84 we were still using the old canvas duck bags? I think they called them. We only had to use them in cold weather training. You can still find them surplus. Only good as a spare bag for your cabin or something. You wouldnt want to carry one far.

I was issued on of those as well. Best thing about the down-filled bags was the heavy brass zipper.
The MSS is nice in that each successive layer has zipper snaps to facilitate using only the outer-most zipper should you so choose... provided the will snap into each other (on mine, some do not). It is a big, bulky sleeping bag though, and can be more weight than some would like, compared to,say, a hammock, underquilt, top quilt and tarp system. To each their own, right?

Ya. The MSS is a beast too. 10lbs. I have no idea what the canvas one was. 15lbs? 12 at least. And it got wet really easily. Which just added to it.

I bought my current kelty down 0f bags several years ago. Before dridown. I should upgrade. But until they come up with a generally waterproof lightweight bag. Ill stick with the mss bivy for protection. I think that bivy is one of the finest pieces of kit to come out of the military procurement process. Lol. Of all the things tjey could have fixed. All they could figure out was a waterproof bag for a sleeping bag. Lol.

[Rustystud]

Outer bivvy sack is a goretex shell; inner layer is the heavy black bag; then the light green bag. Fourth piece was the black compression bag to squeeze it all down for movement. I like to toss a woobie in there and just zip the bivvy sack closed for winter camping like so:
https://theprepperjournal.com/2013/08/1 ... iew/?amp=1

Oh. An MMS. I gotcha. Ya. I was in before thwy issued those. In like 83 or 84 we were still using the old canvas duck bags? I think they called them. We only had to use them in cold weather training. You can still find them surplus. Only good as a spare bag for your cabin or something. You wouldnt want to carry one far.

I was issued on of those as well. Best thing about the down-filled bags was the heavy brass zipper.
The MSS is nice in that each successive layer has zipper snaps to facilitate using only the outer-most zipper should you so choose... provided the will snap into each other (on mine, some do not). It is a big, bulky sleeping bag though, and can be more weight than some would like, compared to,say, a hammock, underquilt, top quilt and tarp system. To each their own, right?

Ya. The MSS is a beast too. 10lbs. I have no idea what the canvas one was. 15lbs? 12 at least. And it got wet really easily. Which just added to it.

I bought my current kelty down 0f bags several years ago. Before dridown. I should upgrade. But until they come up with a generally waterproof lightweight bag. Ill stick with the mss bivy for protection. I think that bivy is one of the finest pieces of kit to come out of the military procurement process. Lol. Of all the things tjey could have fixed. All they could figure out was a waterproof bag for a sleeping bag. Lol.

So "moab" your an old Marine ? I was in there from 80 to 84 myself.Tanker (M60A1 Raise Passive) then did a lateral move into "landing support motor pool" repairing vehicles. I remember those old sleeping bags. Extremely bulky, but very warm. Since I was always on a vehicle ( either a Tank or Duece or even a 5 ton) I didn't have to carry it. I own several bags now mostly ex-military . The latest being the new 4 piece modular system. Very tight for my old fat body, but unbelievably warm !

[moab]

Oh. An MMS. I gotcha. Ya. I was in before thwy issued those. In like 83 or 84 we were still using the old canvas duck bags? I think they called them. We only had to use them in cold weather training. You can still find them surplus. Only good as a spare bag for your cabin or something. You wouldnt want to carry one far.

I was issued on of those as well. Best thing about the down-filled bags was the heavy brass zipper.
The MSS is nice in that each successive layer has zipper snaps to facilitate using only the outer-most zipper should you so choose... provided the will snap into each other (on mine, some do not). It is a big, bulky sleeping bag though, and can be more weight than some would like, compared to,say, a hammock, underquilt, top quilt and tarp system. To each their own, right?

Ya. The MSS is a beast too. 10lbs. I have no idea what the canvas one was. 15lbs? 12 at least. And it got wet really easily. Which just added to it.

I bought my current kelty down 0f bags several years ago. Before dridown. I should upgrade. But until they come up with a generally waterproof lightweight bag. Ill stick with the mss bivy for protection. I think that bivy is one of the finest pieces of kit to come out of the military procurement process. Lol. Of all the things tjey could have fixed. All they could figure out was a waterproof bag for a sleeping bag. Lol.

So "moab" your an old Marine ? I was in there from 80 to 84 myself.Tanker (M60A1 Raise Passive) then did a lateral move into "landing support motor pool" repairing vehicles. I remember those old sleeping bags. Extremely bulky, but very warm. Since I was always on a vehicle ( either a Tank or Duece or even a 5 ton) I didn't have to carry it. I own several bags now mostly ex-military . The latest being the new 4 piece modular system. Very tight for my old fat body, but unbelievably warm !

Ya. I was in 81 to 85. San mateo at camp pendleton. Then overseas to okinawa at camp hansen. Hong kong. Phillipines. I was in a STA platoon. Snipers and radar/night vision/ground sensor operators. I never got the mss. We only had the old canvas sleeping bags. Heavy as shit. And got wet fast. Lol.

[Rustystud]

I was issued on of those as well. Best thing about the down-filled bags was the heavy brass zipper.
The MSS is nice in that each successive layer has zipper snaps to facilitate using only the outer-most zipper should you so choose... provided the will snap into each other (on mine, some do not). It is a big, bulky sleeping bag though, and can be more weight than some would like, compared to,say, a hammock, underquilt, top quilt and tarp system. To each their own, right?

Ya. The MSS is a beast too. 10lbs. I have no idea what the canvas one was. 15lbs? 12 at least. And it got wet really easily. Which just added to it.

I bought my current kelty down 0f bags several years ago. Before dridown. I should upgrade. But until they come up with a generally waterproof lightweight bag. Ill stick with the mss bivy for protection. I think that bivy is one of the finest pieces of kit to come out of the military procurement process. Lol. Of all the things tjey could have fixed. All they could figure out was a waterproof bag for a sleeping bag. Lol.

So "moab" your an old Marine ? I was in there from 80 to 84 myself.Tanker (M60A1 Raise Passive) then did a lateral move into "landing support motor pool" repairing vehicles. I remember those old sleeping bags. Extremely bulky, but very warm. Since I was always on a vehicle ( either a Tank or Duece or even a 5 ton) I didn't have to carry it. I own several bags now mostly ex-military . The latest being the new 4 piece modular system. Very tight for my old fat body, but unbelievably warm !

Ya. I was in 81 to 85. San mateo at camp pendleton. Then overseas to okinawa at camp hansen. Hong kong. Phillipines. I was in a STA platoon. Snipers and radar/night vision/ground sensor operators. I never got the mss. We only had the old canvas sleeping bags. Heavy as shit. And got wet fast. Lol.

Sounds like you got to have a few stories to tell ! Hong Kong, Phillipines. A friend went to the Phillipines and ended up with a wife ! Then she divorced him a year later !
I just was on a float in the Atlantic. Lots of ocean to look at !
I remember those old canvas bags would get really damp in the field. Smelled bad too. Maybe that was just me !
I recently bought a really good used Dutch extreme cold weather bag from "Colemans" military supply. After washing it, it is a really nice bag ! Really two bags and a cover. The Gore-Tex outer covering is not the greatest ( really doesn't seal around your head very well) so I ordered a US New Improved Gore-Tex cover from Colemans. See how that works out.

[Rustystud]

Ya. The MSS is a beast too. 10lbs. I have no idea what the canvas one was. 15lbs? 12 at least. And it got wet really easily. Which just added to it.

I bought my current kelty down 0f bags several years ago. Before dridown. I should upgrade. But until they come up with a generally waterproof lightweight bag. Ill stick with the mss bivy for protection. I think that bivy is one of the finest pieces of kit to come out of the military procurement process. Lol. Of all the things tjey could have fixed. All they could figure out was a waterproof bag for a sleeping bag. Lol.

So "moab" your an old Marine ? I was in there from 80 to 84 myself.Tanker (M60A1 Raise Passive) then did a lateral move into "landing support motor pool" repairing vehicles. I remember those old sleeping bags. Extremely bulky, but very warm. Since I was always on a vehicle ( either a Tank or Duece or even a 5 ton) I didn't have to carry it. I own several bags now mostly ex-military . The latest being the new 4 piece modular system. Very tight for my old fat body, but unbelievably warm !

Ya. I was in 81 to 85. San mateo at camp pendleton. Then overseas to okinawa at camp hansen. Hong kong. Phillipines. I was in a STA platoon. Snipers and radar/night vision/ground sensor operators. I never got the mss. We only had the old canvas sleeping bags. Heavy as shit. And got wet fast. Lol.

Sounds like you got to have a few stories to tell ! Hong Kong, Phillipines. A friend went to the Phillipines and ended up with a wife ! Then she divorced him a year later !
I just was on a float in the Atlantic. Lots of ocean to look at !
I remember those old canvas bags would get really damp in the field. Smelled bad too. Maybe that was just me !
I recently bought a really good used Dutch extreme cold weather bag from "Colemans" military supply. After washing it, it is a really nice bag ! Really two bags and a cover. The Gore-Tex outer covering is not the greatest ( really doesn't seal around your head very well) so I ordered a US New Improved Gore-Tex cover from Colemans. See how that works out.

I forgot to ask. Is there any way to give a post a "thumbs up" here ? Many times I just want to acknowledge a post made by someone without writing out a story. Kind of a "hey great idea" thing. So you just give them a "thumbs up" .

[CrossCut]

I forgot to ask. Is there any way to give a post a "thumbs up" here ? Many times I just want to acknowledge a post made by someone without writing out a story. Kind of a "hey great idea" thing. So you just give them a "thumbs up" .

Had it at one time, but had to back out of the software upgrade due to problems with that version is my understanding. I miss it as well for the same reason and this thread would have gotten a few from me.

[MPMalloy]

I forgot to ask. Is there any way to give a post a "thumbs up" here ? Many times I just want to acknowledge a post made by someone without writing out a story. Kind of a "hey great idea" thing. So you just give them a "thumbs up".

Had it at one time, but had to back out of the software upgrade due to problems with that version is my understanding. I miss it as well for the same reason and this thread would have gotten a few from me.

We *all* miss that feature

Sorely missed...sorely needed.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I forgot to ask. Is there any way to give a post a "thumbs up" here ? Many times I just want to acknowledge a post made by someone without writing out a story. Kind of a "hey great idea" thing. So you just give them a "thumbs up".

Had it at one time, but had to back out of the software upgrade due to problems with that version is my understanding. I miss it as well for the same reason and this thread would have gotten a few from me.

We *all* miss that feature

Sorely missed...sorely needed.

Yeah, the feature did exist on ZS at one point, but due to a forum upgrade, it got left behind because it didn't work with the new software for some reason.

It was a nice feature and hopefully it may come back at some point in the future.

[moab]

I forgot to ask. Is there any way to give a post a "thumbs up" here ? Many times I just want to acknowledge a post made by someone without writing out a story. Kind of a "hey great idea" thing. So you just give them a "thumbs up".

Had it at one time, but had to back out of the software upgrade due to problems with that version is my understanding. I miss it as well for the same reason and this thread would have gotten a few from me.

We *all* miss that feature

Sorely missed...sorely needed.

Yeah, the feature did exist on ZS at one point, but due to a forum upgrade, it got left behind because it didn't work with the new software for some reason.

It was a nice feature and hopefully it may come back at some point in the future.

So your saying this is "new" software?! Lol!