Lithium rechargeable aa's?

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moab
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Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by moab » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:22 pm

I bought a lithium battery charger. With 8 bays. And a set of what i thought were 8 rechargeable aa's. Turns out they were single use.

Now that I'm looking for replacements. I see that they are about $5 each. Not sure i want to spend that much on batteries for around the house. Anyone know of a more economical source?

Also what are the pros and cons of them for use with a solar charger? VS nimh's? For bob etc?

I may stick with these for my bob etc. But may go back to nimhs for around the house. We seem to lose a lot of these throughout the year. At 5 bucks each i think nimhs would be better for that no?
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by raptor2 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:02 pm

IMO alkaline AA's are so cheap that I limit the use of re-chargeable AA's to high use items like, game cameras that need 8 batteries and go through them like popcorn. I also use lithium single use batteries in flashlights that sit around for infrequent use for instance in my car. They do not leak in the light and they can be stored in the light for 10 years and they will work even if you ignore them.

The good news is that the rechargeable do not leak but the bad news is that loose power faster than alkaline/single lithium.


I have found these 3 to be the best re-chargeable AA for my use in game cameras.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JH ... UTF8&psc=1

These are cheaper but store less power.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003D ... UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CW ... UTF8&psc=1


BTW this guy is boring but he does a good AA test.
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by majorhavoc » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:57 pm

I second Raptor's recommendation of the Enloops (they seem to have the best reputation) and Amazon Basics. I also have four GoalZero AAs that came with the Guide 10 charger/battery bank. They seem OK but I don't think they have the same capacity as the Enloops or even the Amazon Basics. I also tried some LSD batteries made by Tenergy which is supposedly a good brand. But one of those failed after only about 10 recharge cycles.

I also have some plastic adapters so I can use those LSD AA's to run a SW radio that takes "C" size batteries, and a LED lantern that runs off of "D" batteries. The "D" size adaptors accommodate two AAs wired in parallel to get longer runtime. I also have numerous LSD's in the AAA size, as most of my other LED lights run off of those.

I agree that disposable alkaline AA/AAAs are stupid cheap (especially when purchased in quantity). But the doomsday side of my prepping personality likes the idea nearly infinite rechargeability should the S ever really HTF. :wink:

ETA: just realized you're specifically asking about Lithium AAs, Moab. Sorry, I have no experience with those. The only thing I know about them is many come with a built in USB charging port and thus don't require a dedicated charger. Can this 8 bay charger you purchased only handle lithium batteries?

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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by boskone » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:23 pm

I'll third the suggestion of Eneloops. I have a bunch, they've served me well.

I believe that lithium "AA" batteries are actually 14500s and output 3.7V; AA batteries should be 1.5V or so. So lithium cells--absent an internal converter--may damage electronics. YMMV, check your manuals.

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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by moab » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:37 pm

Man! I am screwed! Lmao! Guess i have a lithium charger and no need for it. Lol. I don't know what else it charges. And I'm to lazy at the moment to get up and go look.

Gotta link to those adapters that convert aa to c or d? Those sound slick. And if they don't take up to much space - why not?

I normally run tenergy nimh aa's in my 10 bay nimh charger. As they are cheaper, hold a good charge, and we lose them so much i don't mind it. As they are so cheap. Especially compared to even alkalines. I am running tenergys from somewhere between 5 and 10 years old? A long time anyway. So im a big fan of them.

But my supply of tenergys dropped low. Due to loss.. (who f-ing knows where? Right?!). And all the remotes take them. Which are like two or three per room. So i thought i had looked into lithiums enough that i bought the charger. And 20 bats. But i didnt realize all the bats i was looking at were one time use. Lol. So now that i know rechargeable lithiums are $5 each. It will take some time to think of a good use.

So now i know.

I bought the charger to long ago to return it. So maybe ill think of a good use for some rechargeable's that would be dedicated to a certain device. Something expensive enough you wouldnt lose the batteries to it. Maybe a scanner? Idk. Lol.
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by majorhavoc » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:49 am

moab wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:37 pm
Man! I am screwed! Lmao! Guess i have a lithium charger and no need for it. Lol. I don't know what else it charges. And I'm to lazy at the moment to get up and go look.

Gotta link to those adapters that convert aa to c or d? Those sound slick. And if they don't take up to much space - why not?

I normally run tenergy nimh aa's in my 10 bay nimh charger. As they are cheaper, hold a good charge, and we lose them so much i don't mind it. As they are so cheap. Especially compared to even alkalines. I am running tenergys from somewhere between 5 and 10 years old? A long time anyway. So im a big fan of them.

But my supply of tenergys dropped low. Due to loss.. (who f-ing knows where? Right?!). And all the remotes take them. Which are like two or three per room. So i thought i had looked into lithiums enough that i bought the charger. And 20 bats. But i didnt realize all the bats i was looking at were one time use. Lol. So now that i know rechargeable lithiums are $5 each. It will take some time to think of a good use.

So now i know.

I bought the charger to long ago to return it. So maybe ill think of a good use for some rechargeable's that would be dedicated to a certain device. Something expensive enough you wouldnt lose the batteries to it. Maybe a scanner? Idk. Lol.
I dunno; lithium batteries supposedly can handle 1000 recharge cycles, while NiMh batteries like the Enloops apparently are only good for 500. So there's an argument that they're worth the price premium if you're prepping for the truly long term.

My "D" cell adaptors take two AA's and are a little fussy with a flimsy trap door mechanism. They work, but you need to take care inserting them into your device or those trap doors pop open and you don't get good contact. These look much better and accommodate three AAs, not two (longer runtime). I would have gone this route had they been available at the time. https://smile.amazon.com/DSLRKIT-Parall ... 696&sr=8-4

Not the same exact brand, but these are pretty much what my "C" cell adaptors are. Since all they are are spacers for a single AA cell, they're pretty much idiot proof. https://smile.amazon.com/LAMPVPATH-Batt ... 099&sr=8-4

There are other options available on Amazon. Just search "D cell adaptor" and "C cell adaptor".

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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by EBuff75 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:48 am

There are quite a few rebranded Eneloops out there if you do a bit of searching. I've had good luck with the Ladda rechargeable batteries from Ikea, which are $6.99 / 4pack. Those are believed to be rewrapped Eneloop Pros.

Moab, what charger did you buy? A lot of the Li-ion chargers are smart chargers and can handle Li-ion, NiMH, NiCd, and LiFePO4, either automatically or by scrolling through options. We actually had a fairly lengthy thread about Eneloops just recently that you might want to check out: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=124667

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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by moab » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:18 pm

EBuff75 wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:48 am
There are quite a few rebranded Eneloops out there if you do a bit of searching. I've had good luck with the Ladda rechargeable batteries from Ikea, which are $6.99 / 4pack. Those are believed to be rewrapped Eneloop Pros.

Moab, what charger did you buy? A lot of the Li-ion chargers are smart chargers and can handle Li-ion, NiMH, NiCd, and LiFePO4, either automatically or by scrolling through options. We actually had a fairly lengthy thread about Eneloops just recently that you might want to check out: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=124667
I stick with the tenergys as like i said we lose so damn many of them. I replace more bats than ones that go bad. In fact i replace them long before that. As they just get lost and not returned to my charger. Lol.

But i like the comments above concerning recharge numbers. Maybe they would be good for my bug out and inch bag only. Given they recharge twice as many times. And i can keep those bats from getting lost.

The lithium charger is probably good for nimhs too. But i have a larger 10 bay for nimhs already. But i guess it could be a double charger for nimhs and lion in my long term bags.

Ill check out that other thread.
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by eugene » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:58 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:49 am

I dunno; lithium batteries supposedly can handle 1000 recharge cycles, while NiMh batteries like the Enloops apparently are only good for 500. So there's an argument that they're worth the price premium if you're prepping for the truly long term.
I think you got that backwards. I've always seen Eneloops rated at 1000 cycles and Lithium Ion at 300-500. That longevity is one reason to stay with NiMH.

I've been using Eneloops since 2006, still have those originals. Have some pre-eneloop Sanyo 1650mAH from 1999 that are still useable, they just test less than the standard 80% capacity (though last I checked they were still over 70%). I don't have any Lithium Ion even near 1/2 that age.
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by moab » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:34 pm

eugene wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:58 pm
majorhavoc wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:49 am

I dunno; lithium batteries supposedly can handle 1000 recharge cycles, while NiMh batteries like the Enloops apparently are only good for 500. So there's an argument that they're worth the price premium if you're prepping for the truly long term.
I think you got that backwards. I've always seen Eneloops rated at 1000 cycles and Lithium Ion at 300-500. That longevity is one reason to stay with NiMH.

I've been using Eneloops since 2006, still have those originals. Have some pre-eneloop Sanyo 1650mAH from 1999 that are still useable, they just test less than the standard 80% capacity (though last I checked they were still over 70%). I don't have any Lithium Ion even near 1/2 that age.
Then whats the advantage? And why do they cost 5 dollars each?
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by EBuff75 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:28 pm

I think there's some confusion here about terminology.

Lithium AA and AAA (and CR123a, which is 3v) batteries are single use disposable batteries and are not rechargeable. Their main advantages are that they don't leak and that they have a very long shelf life. Standard voltage for AA and AAA is 1.5v.

Lithium ion batteries are rechargeable. They're usually rated at 3.7v and aren't a direct replacement for normal AA, AAA, C, or D cell batteries. There is an AA-sized lithium ion battery known as a 14500, but it can't be used as an AA-replacement unless specifically noted by the device due to the difference in voltage. There are some flashlights which can use both AA and 14500 batteries, which usually results in different peak output (lumens) which are battery-dependant due to the increased voltage from 14500 batteries. Li-ion batteries are frequently used in high-output flashlights and other devices (like vape sticks) which need higher voltage to function. These batteries are named according to their dimensions, with an 18650 battery being 18mm wide and 65mm long. Other common batteries are 16430, 26650, 18350, etc.

Eneloops are NiMH rechargeable batteries which are direct replacements for AA and AAA batteries. They are rated at slightly lower voltage than normal AA / AAA batteries though, usually around 1.2v instead of 1.5v. This can be an issue in some devices, like trail cameras, which use a large number of batteries in series, as the overall voltage may be too low for the device to function correctly. There are no C or D cell versions of these, but there are spacers which allow AA Eneloops to be used in C/D cell applications.

Most lithium ion batteries are (as noted by euguene) rated at 300-500 cycles before their peak charge drops below a pre-set level, usually in the 60 - 80% range.

Eneloops have different ratings for charge cycles based on whether they are regular or Pro models. The latest generation of regular Eneloops state they are good for 2100 charge cycles before they are less than 60% of capacity. The Eneloop Pro is only rated for 500 cycles. The Pro has faster recovery rates for things like flash photography, higher capacity, but also a higher rate of discharge when not being used.

If you feel like doing a ton of reading, check out the Eneloop101 website. They have as much info as you could ever want!

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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by RonnyRonin » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:01 pm

I have eneloops from when Costco had a good deal on them, but since then I've mostly added Ikea Ladda's to my collection. As others have mentioned the reviews of the ikea batteries have been quite good, and while I'm not battery geek I've been happy enough with them. Most all my Bug Out gear runs on AA so having a light and compact charger (olite UC) and a solar panel means I can keep most all my electronics going for quite some time.
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by moab » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:15 am

RonnyRonin wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:01 pm
I have eneloops from when Costco had a good deal on them, but since then I've mostly added Ikea Ladda's to my collection. As others have mentioned the reviews of the ikea batteries have been quite good, and while I'm not battery geek I've been happy enough with them. Most all my Bug Out gear runs on AA so having a light and compact charger (olite UC) and a solar panel means I can keep most all my electronics going for quite some time.
All my stuff used to run all AA. But i added 18650(?) Flashlights. So i know what you mean. Thats why i thought the lithium ions would be a good idea. But they don't have an aa.

Guess ill be carrying two chargers. One nimh aa charger and one lithium ion 18650.

But i will invest in some eneloop nimh aa's though. Instead of the tenergy. For my bugout stuff.
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by moab » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:16 am

EBuff75 wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:28 pm
I think there's some confusion here about terminology.

Lithium AA and AAA (and CR123a, which is 3v) batteries are single use disposable batteries and are not rechargeable. Their main advantages are that they don't leak and that they have a very long shelf life. Standard voltage for AA and AAA is 1.5v.

Lithium ion batteries are rechargeable. They're usually rated at 3.7v and aren't a direct replacement for normal AA, AAA, C, or D cell batteries. There is an AA-sized lithium ion battery known as a 14500, but it can't be used as an AA-replacement unless specifically noted by the device due to the difference in voltage. There are some flashlights which can use both AA and 14500 batteries, which usually results in different peak output (lumens) which are battery-dependant due to the increased voltage from 14500 batteries. Li-ion batteries are frequently used in high-output flashlights and other devices (like vape sticks) which need higher voltage to function. These batteries are named according to their dimensions, with an 18650 battery being 18mm wide and 65mm long. Other common batteries are 16430, 26650, 18350, etc.

Eneloops are NiMH rechargeable batteries which are direct replacements for AA and AAA batteries. They are rated at slightly lower voltage than normal AA / AAA batteries though, usually around 1.2v instead of 1.5v. This can be an issue in some devices, like trail cameras, which use a large number of batteries in series, as the overall voltage may be too low for the device to function correctly. There are no C or D cell versions of these, but there are spacers which allow AA Eneloops to be used in C/D cell applications.

Most lithium ion batteries are (as noted by euguene) rated at 300-500 cycles before their peak charge drops below a pre-set level, usually in the 60 - 80% range.

Eneloops have different ratings for charge cycles based on whether they are regular or Pro models. The latest generation of regular Eneloops state they are good for 2100 charge cycles before they are less than 60% of capacity. The Eneloop Pro is only rated for 500 cycles. The Pro has faster recovery rates for things like flash photography, higher capacity, but also a higher rate of discharge when not being used.

If you feel like doing a ton of reading, check out the Eneloop101 website. They have as much info as you could ever want!
Thank you. This cleared up a lot for me. Straight dope. Much appreciated.
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:38 am

moab wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:16 am
EBuff75 wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:28 pm
I think there's some confusion here about terminology.

Lithium AA and AAA (and CR123a, which is 3v) batteries are single use disposable batteries and are not rechargeable. Their main advantages are that they don't leak and that they have a very long shelf life. Standard voltage for AA and AAA is 1.5v.

Lithium ion batteries are rechargeable. They're usually rated at 3.7v and aren't a direct replacement for normal AA, AAA, C, or D cell batteries. There is an AA-sized lithium ion battery known as a 14500, but it can't be used as an AA-replacement unless specifically noted by the device due to the difference in voltage. There are some flashlights which can use both AA and 14500 batteries, which usually results in different peak output (lumens) which are battery-dependant due to the increased voltage from 14500 batteries. Li-ion batteries are frequently used in high-output flashlights and other devices (like vape sticks) which need higher voltage to function. These batteries are named according to their dimensions, with an 18650 battery being 18mm wide and 65mm long. Other common batteries are 16430, 26650, 18350, etc.

Eneloops are NiMH rechargeable batteries which are direct replacements for AA and AAA batteries. They are rated at slightly lower voltage than normal AA / AAA batteries though, usually around 1.2v instead of 1.5v. This can be an issue in some devices, like trail cameras, which use a large number of batteries in series, as the overall voltage may be too low for the device to function correctly. There are no C or D cell versions of these, but there are spacers which allow AA Eneloops to be used in C/D cell applications.

Most lithium ion batteries are (as noted by euguene) rated at 300-500 cycles before their peak charge drops below a pre-set level, usually in the 60 - 80% range.

Eneloops have different ratings for charge cycles based on whether they are regular or Pro models. The latest generation of regular Eneloops state they are good for 2100 charge cycles before they are less than 60% of capacity. The Eneloop Pro is only rated for 500 cycles. The Pro has faster recovery rates for things like flash photography, higher capacity, but also a higher rate of discharge when not being used.

If you feel like doing a ton of reading, check out the Eneloop101 website. They have as much info as you could ever want!
Thank you. This cleared up a lot for me. Straight dope. Much appreciated.
Yes! Thanks EBuff!

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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by RonnyRonin » Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:26 am

moab wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:15 am

Guess ill be carrying two chargers. One nimh aa charger and one lithium ion 18650.
any particular reason? plenty of chargers out there that will do both
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by moab » Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:24 pm

RonnyRonin wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:26 am
moab wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:15 am

Guess ill be carrying two chargers. One nimh aa charger and one lithium ion 18650.
any particular reason? plenty of chargers out there that will do both
Maybe mine does. Very little markings on unit. Ill have to contact seller.
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Re: Lithium rechargeable aa's?

Post by eugene » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:19 pm

moab wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:34 pm
eugene wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:58 pm
majorhavoc wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:49 am

I dunno; lithium batteries supposedly can handle 1000 recharge cycles, while NiMh batteries like the Enloops apparently are only good for 500. So there's an argument that they're worth the price premium if you're prepping for the truly long term.
I think you got that backwards. I've always seen Eneloops rated at 1000 cycles and Lithium Ion at 300-500. That longevity is one reason to stay with NiMH.

I've been using Eneloops since 2006, still have those originals. Have some pre-eneloop Sanyo 1650mAH from 1999 that are still useable, they just test less than the standard 80% capacity (though last I checked they were still over 70%). I don't have any Lithium Ion even near 1/2 that age.
Then whats the advantage? And why do they cost 5 dollars each?
Eneloops should now be costing $5 each, $2-3 at most. The advantage is Eneloops will last > 1000 cycles and >10 years where Lithium Ion will last ~500 cycles and 5 years.

To add more confusion there are some companies that take a small 3.7v lithium ion cell, add a 1.5v regulator and stick it in an AA sized form factor. I'm typically not an early adopter, I'll wait and see if they last before using them.

Nitecore makes some lithium Ion/NiMH/NiCad combo chargers that seem pretty popular.
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