Do you have Body Armor?

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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MPMalloy
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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:19 pm

ManInBlack316 wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:Is there armor for some of us, how do you say...'portly' preppers?
Define portly. A big problem of the armor occasion is that it tends to be heavy, which requires a level of fitness to be able to move. I'm working on this myself.
However, there are larger plate, soft armor, and carrier sizes available, may be more expensive though because of supply and demand.
I was just curious. Armor is not on any of my lists. Never has been. Same with night-vision, thermal-imaging, & .50 cals.

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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by Dabster » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:45 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
ManInBlack316 wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:Is there armor for some of us, how do you say...'portly' preppers?
Define portly. A big problem of the armor occasion is that it tends to be heavy, which requires a level of fitness to be able to move. I'm working on this myself.
However, there are larger plate, soft armor, and carrier sizes available, may be more expensive though because of supply and demand.
I was just curious. Armor is not on any of my lists. Never has been. Same with night-vision, thermal-imaging, & .50 cals.
Don't let the naysayers get you down. I am not as svelte as I'd like but I can walk, jog, jump and get up (This is my entire suite of dance moves) and shoot in armor. I have a TAG banshee and Highcom Guardian 4S17M shooter-cut plates. It isn't comfortable but it is more comfortable than you'd expect.

I bought it all from these guys: https://highcomsecurity.com/. No affiliation -just a satisfied customer.
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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:17 pm

Dabster wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
ManInBlack316 wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:Is there armor for some of us, how do you say...'portly' preppers?
Define portly. A big problem of the armor occasion is that it tends to be heavy, which requires a level of fitness to be able to move. I'm working on this myself.
However, there are larger plate, soft armor, and carrier sizes available, may be more expensive though because of supply and demand.
I was just curious. Armor is not on any of my lists. Never has been. Same with night-vision, thermal-imaging, & .50 cals.
Don't let the naysayers get you down. I am not as svelte as I'd like but I can walk, jog, jump and get up (This is my entire suite of dance moves) and shoot in armor. I have a TAG banshee and Highcom Guardian 4S17M shooter-cut plates. It isn't comfortable but it is more comfortable than you'd expect.

I bought it all from these guys: https://highcomsecurity.com/. No affiliation -just a satisfied customer.
I just looked them up. Armor would be nice to have, it's just that there are so many other things that I need right now. Armor is cool. No doubt. 2XL was only $579.00. I could afford that.

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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:50 pm

MPMalloy wrote: I just looked them up. Armor would be nice to have, it's just that there are so many other things that I need right now. Armor is cool. No doubt. 2XL was only $579.00. I could afford that.
Way to much unless you are talking Level IV stuff. You should be able to get a plate and carrier in big man sizes for half that these days.
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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by Dabster » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:17 am

Stercutus wrote:
MPMalloy wrote: I just looked them up. Armor would be nice to have, it's just that there are so many other things that I need right now. Armor is cool. No doubt. 2XL was only $579.00. I could afford that.
Way to much unless you are talking Level IV stuff. You should be able to get a plate and carrier in big man sizes for half that these days.
With the falling prices of LVL IV armor, why get anything less?

Thanks,
I am not a 'gray man'. I am a brown man, coyote brown. With FDE highlights, of course.

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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:48 pm

Dabster wrote:With the falling prices of LVL IV armor, why get anything less?
Agreed.

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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by RonnyRonin » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:14 pm

Dabster wrote:
With the falling prices of LVL IV armor, why get anything less?

Thanks,
While I will concede that any armor at all is a bit paranoid, when I assess what I am most likely going to be shot at with I come up with .55grain .223 ball (every tom dick and harry with an AR these days) 7.62x39 (the holdouts from the days of cheap AKs) or soft point hunting bullets from any number of bolt action calibers (the holdouts that don't need one of them newfangled "assault rifles").

bullets that defeat LV III+ are hard to come by and often work worse then easily found options on soft tissue, I just could not justify the extra weight of level IV armor when I thought about it.

Even those worried about being able to defeat armor I think are more likely to rely on a "hips and head" technique rather then trying to source expensive, exotic bullets of dubious legality or effectiveness.

Just like the stockpiling/ammo sourcing discussions, statistically 5.56 is the pertinent threat and everything else pales by comparison.
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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by ManInBlack316 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:46 pm

For those of you who do have plate carriers,
Cumberbund or side buckles?

Looking at getting my carrier, I like the quick and easy side buckles, but somebody said a cumberbund makes it more comfortable and is a lot quicker to adjust.

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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by Stercutus » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:55 pm

I fond the cummerbund is the one that is best adjustable to your body, providing a more snug and secure fit. It is easier to adjust and does not take that much longer to don, not enough to make a difference.
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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by RonnyRonin » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:33 pm

side buckles are maybe a bit faster, quieter and perhaps more robust (all velcro wears out eventually) but in general I think the standard velcro cummerbund is more practical and comfortable. I dislike the style of PC with a flap that goes over the cummerbund (either for a MOLLE panel or for a pouch) as this just adds a lot of velcro to deal with every time you want to don or doff, I prefer either having a panel that clips in front of the closure or having the mags/pouches under the flaps of the cummerbund so you don't have to futz with one more thing, as I've mostly run slick PCs I've gotten used to just ripping off one side and leaving the other attached at all times.
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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by Aikibiker » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:07 am

I wear concealable armor for work and have worn various plate carriers overseas.

All armor sucks to wear long term. It actually puts a strain on your body systems that can be seen in your vital signs (I work at a hospital and sometimes we play around with the equipment when we are bored).

For a SHTF scenario I do not see myself wearing armor all day every day. However there are some times it would be very useful.

1. Standing guard around the sub division. Let's use the example of "Lights Out" by David Crawford. If you haven't read the book the protagonist organizes his neighborhood after a SHTF event. One of the things they do is build a fence and place guards at the front gate and in make shift guard towers. If you had to pull a guard shift a plate carrier might be a nice thing to have.

2. When venturing out to buy/trade for supplies. Fernando (Ferfal) Aguire in his famous posts on frugal squirrels (now archived on his own site) wrote about buying from black marketeers in Argentina during their economic collapse there and how relieved he was to get some concealable body armor to wear to the market they had set up. He also said it was good have if he was forced to travel or run an errand after dark since your chance of getting mugged/kidnapped/robbed/etc. was so much higher at night.

3. If you are ever in a position where you have to provide protection to someone that cannot protect themselves. One of the things that has stuck with me from a PSD course I took was the instructor saying that your job was to put your body armor between the principle and any threats. The reasoning was two fold. A. because rounds could go through you and hit the principle without armor to stop them and B. because if you are protecting someone and you get killed or injured then you cannot protect them any longer. Now imagine instead of being a bodyguard for some bigwig you are protecting your kid. If you die how will your kid survive in SHTF?

In summation you need a mix of concealable armor for when you don't want to stand out and heavy rifle armor for when circumstances force you to stand out.
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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by LowKey » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:26 am

Aikibiker wrote: All armor sucks to wear long term. It actually puts a strain on your body systems that can be seen in your vital signs (I work at a hospital and sometimes we play around with the equipment when we are bored).
Can you share any data on that?
It's been a few years since I've worn plates on the job, but without a doubt we ran ourselves down faster while wearing our plate carriers. I'd be interested in which vitals were effected, and how.
Ditto if any of the medical folks care to conjecture on long term effects.
Not expecting a double blind and peer reviewed study, just a good solid "If I was a betting man..." sort of assessment.


BTW, I think I still owe you dinner and a beer the next time we're both within driving distance of each other. :lol:
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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by Aikibiker » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:11 pm

LowKey wrote:
Aikibiker wrote: All armor sucks to wear long term. It actually puts a strain on your body systems that can be seen in your vital signs (I work at a hospital and sometimes we play around with the equipment when we are bored).
Can you share any data on that?
It's been a few years since I've worn plates on the job, but without a doubt we ran ourselves down faster while wearing our plate carriers. I'd be interested in which vitals were effected, and how.
Ditto if any of the medical folks care to conjecture on long term effects.
Not expecting a double blind and peer reviewed study, just a good solid "If I was a betting man..." sort of assessment.


BTW, I think I still owe you dinner and a beer the next time we're both within driving distance of each other. :lol:
Only thing I have is anecdotal right now. But my resting pulse with armor is 90-100 BPM and around 75 BPM without. SPO2 is also down a few points. Haven't tracked RR rates, but when itissnugged down correctly I have to work abit harder to breathe.

My armor was professionally fitted by a Safariland factory sales rep and custom tailored to my body.

A study was conducted with Indian soldiers back in the 90's wearing armor that seems to confirm what I am seeing.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4196000571

I also found a collection of body armor studies, but most of them did not track physiological effects. Of the two that did (the previously mentioned Indian Army study and one from the USMC) both found that wearing armor caused cardiovascular strain, pulmonary strain, and increased heart rate. The USMC study showed it to be insignificant. However the purpose of the USMC study was to see if performing an exercise program in armor would yield better results then without.

https://aoemj.biomedcentral.com/article ... 017-0169-9
Physiological studies
For those studies investigating the physiological effects of wearing body armour, no clear consensus on the independent impacts of wearing body armour emerged from the quantitative data presented in the reports of these studies, as no objective measures were uniformly utilized across all six studies. Nevertheless, the related measures of cardiovascular strain [33], pulmonary strain [37] and heart rate [36, 37] were all reported as elevated beyond control levels in participants wearing body armour suggesting that workload increased when wearing body armour. The study by Swain, et. al. [29] was unique from the others, in that it considered the potential for wearing body armour during training to increase the benefit of training. After 6 weeks of an United States Marine Corps (USMC) style program, the study showed small improvements to the respiratory exchange ratio (RER) (p = 0.01), and maximal heart rate (HRmax) (p = 0.01) in both the experimental group, which wore body armour during training, and the control group. Likewise, maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max) increased in both groups, however, whilst mean VO2max increased approximately twice as much in the vest group as in the control group, this difference between groups did not reach statistical significance (p = 0.16).
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Yes a Spartan hoplite trained for battle since he could walk, backed by 299 other Spartans, and lead by a military genius can hold off any number of zombies armed with spear, shield, and sword. However your couch-potato, asthmatic, gets in a car to drive to the corner store lazy ass can't. Deal with it.

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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by ManInBlack316 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:45 pm

Aikibiker wrote:I wear concealable armor for work and have worn various plate carriers overseas.

All armor sucks to wear long term. It actually puts a strain on your body systems that can be seen in your vital signs (I work at a hospital and sometimes we play around with the equipment when we are bored).

For a SHTF scenario I do not see myself wearing armor all day every day. However there are some times it would be very useful.

1. Standing guard around the sub division. Let's use the example of "Lights Out" by David Crawford. If you haven't read the book the protagonist organizes his neighborhood after a SHTF event. One of the things they do is build a fence and place guards at the front gate and in make shift guard towers. If you had to pull a guard shift a plate carrier might be a nice thing to have.

2. When venturing out to buy/trade for supplies. Fernando (Ferfal) Aguire in his famous posts on frugal squirrels (now archived on his own site) wrote about buying from black marketeers in Argentina during their economic collapse there and how relieved he was to get some concealable body armor to wear to the market they had set up. He also said it was good have if he was forced to travel or run an errand after dark since your chance of getting mugged/kidnapped/robbed/etc. was so much higher at night.

3. If you are ever in a position where you have to provide protection to someone that cannot protect themselves. One of the things that has stuck with me from a PSD course I took was the instructor saying that your job was to put your body armor between the principle and any threats. The reasoning was two fold. A. because rounds could go through you and hit the principle without armor to stop them and B. because if you are protecting someone and you get killed or injured then you cannot protect them any longer. Now imagine instead of being a bodyguard for some bigwig you are protecting your kid. If you die how will your kid survive in SHTF?

In summation you need a mix of concealable armor for when you don't want to stand out and heavy rifle armor for when circumstances force you to stand out.
Which would you suggest to get first, concealable or heavy rifle? And couldn't you get rifle armor that fulfills both roles?

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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:40 pm

I'd start with the light concealable stuff. It would be more useful in most cases. It is lighter so you are more likely to wear it. It will defeat most handgun rounds and shotgun pellets which is what most of threats are. If things get out of whack like in South America with a murder rate 10X current US, you could wear it every day. Later get a plate carrier that you can throw on top if things go Mogadishu.
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You go over and under
I go through

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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by ManInBlack316 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:06 pm

Stercutus wrote:I'd start with the light concealable stuff. It would be more useful in most cases. It is lighter so you are more likely to wear it. It will defeat most handgun rounds and shotgun pellets which is what most of threats are. If things get out of whack like in South America with a murder rate 10X current US, you could wear it every day. Later get a plate carrier that you can throw on top if things go Mogadishu.
I was thinking about getting the Ferro Concepts Slickster:
https://trex-arms.com/store/ferro-concepts-slickster/
Pairing it with their triple turnover: https://trex-arms.com/store/ferro-conce ... -turnover/
And then adding IIIa soft armor: http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-b ... -iiia.html
While also having the option for III+ plates: http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-b ... armor.html

I was thinking this way I have the option for soft armor first, can add a way to carry three rifle mags, while also having the ability to throw in rifle plates if needed.
Is this a good idea or does everyone think it'd be better to go for separate soft armor and hard armor carriers?

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Re: Do you have Body Armor?

Post by Aikibiker » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:23 pm

ManInBlack316 wrote:
Aikibiker wrote:Snip for space
Which would you suggest to get first, concealable or heavy rifle? And couldn't you get rifle armor that fulfills both roles?
From my experience rifle armor sucks even more and the concealable forms require much heavier clothing to conceal.

Whatever you get, if it is for SHTF I would go with some type of concealable armor first. My preference is for lvl IIa or IIIa that will work under a regular button down or polo shirt instead of "concealable" rifle armor that I need to have a turtle neck or jacket to hide.

Remember that your concealable armor can still be worn if a situation where you would prefer a plate carrier, but the reverse is not true. It may not provide the same level of protection, but it is more useable in multiple situations.

Sort of like how a handgun can be taken many more places then a rifle making your CCW pistol a lot more useful for defense then the AR15 in your trunk. I would never advise you not to have a trunk gun, but I would tell you to get a CCW piece first.
___________________

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Yes a Spartan hoplite trained for battle since he could walk, backed by 299 other Spartans, and lead by a military genius can hold off any number of zombies armed with spear, shield, and sword. However your couch-potato, asthmatic, gets in a car to drive to the corner store lazy ass can't. Deal with it.

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