Accepting Reality

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Stercutus
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Stercutus » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:34 pm

This thread has gotten downright silly with the naysaying.



My XVIII Airborne Corps Handbook Circa 1992 Says:
12 Miles road march with 35 pound rucksack, LCE, Kevlar and individual weapon within 3 hours. This must be completed as a unit.
And we did it too. Guys going to SFAS and other schools often did a double (24 miles within 6 hours). That is because you needed to do 24/6 to pass SFAS back then. I think it is the same today.


By 1999 it read:
Annual 20km (12.5 mile) road march < 4 hours (with 15 to 72 lb. rucksack, Kevlar, individual weapon, BDUs and boots).
I do recall that prior to that time some units would conduct marches in PT gear and boots. That was pretty lame. The increase was inrecognition that not everyone was in the infantry. Infantry units (and others) kept the 12/3.

Minimum standard. Often done faster.

In 2010 it read:
Running and Foot Marches on Roadways.
One of the greatest dangers on Fort Bragg is Soldiers conducting foot marches during hours of limited visibility. Preventive measures must be taken to ensure the safety of everyone involved in these events. FB Reg. 385-10 lists the measures that must occur when Soldiers are running or marching on roadways.
Composite risk assessment (DA Form 7566) work sheets will be completed on all foot marches
and large formation runs and be reviewed at the unit’s next higher level.
I believe the 82d Standard is still 12 miles within 3 hours with full kit. Anyone with some source documents feel free to correct me.

The reason for the 12 miles in three hours is because that is the minimum standard for the EIB. The road march is considered the easiest part of the EIB. It is done with 72lbs of pack and gear. It is done last after most have already walked at least 30 miles in the previous 24 hours doing day and night and nav and other tasks. Recently (this year) they added a weapons proficiency task after the march. This means you have to be able to fight at the end.

Clearly the idea that these things can't be done is crazy. There is no reason to think that any civilian in good health can't train themselves to similar standards.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by grumpyviking » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:36 pm

this is getting boring now.
not everybody is forces or ex forces, some of us are regular people(I was going to say "normal" but I've never been normal in my life) :rofl:
Survive, Adapt & Evolve .

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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:47 pm

It's not "can't be done" but "aren't likely target goals for family groups, particularly those with young, old, or otherwise not in military condition."

This is Zombie Squad not Military Squad.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by moab » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:57 pm

MacWa77ace wrote:
Boondock wrote:
Stercutus wrote:I have always been confused by the "on foot" BO.
Too many people think this is the ultimate fantasy:

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The Road: this is 10 years after the 'event' which was either a solar or nuclear EMP event. Either would have knocked out most powered transportation. After 10 years, most survivors would be walking. But they are not bugging out. They are essentially nomads at this point, scavenging for food and water.

The Book of Eli had vehicles still working 35-40 years after a nuclear exchange. I always had trouble with that because even if you could find some fuel, the rubber in tires would decay enough to make them extremely unreliable.

moab wrote:Yes. I don't think anyone feels bugging out on foot is a first tier bug out strategy. It's for if your BIL has failed, your BOL has failed, your car has failed, your boat has failed, and you've got no other choice. Or any number of other bad things. Like staying out on the roads is not safe anymore. Or some other such scenario.
Exactly,
If an EMP event caused by a nuclear pulse followed by surface and subsurface bursts near your AO, then an immediate bug out of 60 miles to evacuate the 'hot zone' would be advised. If powered transportation were not available you'd have to hoof it.

But even if vehicles were available, a bug out of that type, life or death, would most certainly gridlock all escape arteries.

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Contingency ZZ: Bug out on foot.
Good points, MacWa77ace.

And if we're talking movie metaphors here. I think the walking dead is a good example of movement. (If you can ignore the zombie outbreak possibilities. And simply observe it as a movement exercise after a continent wide disaster has killed off many of us. And we're simply left with good guys and bad guys. Kind of like society is already set up today. ;) ) Limited resources. Clogged major highways. And some form of danger complicating your movement. You try to use vehicles as much as possible. While you try to find a safe BOL. Force marching would only serve to wear everyone out, use up your water supply, and most likely put you in greater danger. As your hurrying everywhere so your not going to be as observant. And less likely to be able to avoid danger as your going to be worn out all the time. Not to mention (like grumpy brings up) the physical state of everyone in your party. Including children and maybe even babies.

I'm not sure how we got on the subject of fast movement. But it doesn't seem like a good idea. Unless your avoiding immediate danger.

I just find it quite plausible that BIL's and BOL's can be overrun by any manner of disaster. You may think walking on foot is a fantasy. But no more so than thinking that your magical BIL or BOL is immune to things like disease, fallout, earthquake, etc. etc. etc. They're not immune. And most BOL I've heard and read about are not that far from peoples homes. 3 or 4 hour drive without traffic on average? IDK. I've never taken a poll. Or seen one taken.

The funny thing is the only thing that separates a BOB from an INCH is probably 10lbs of extra stuff. Not that much in the grand scheme of things. You're packing for all four seasons. And bringing more food, ammo and tools is all. Your simply prepared to move if you have to. Which I think is not that unlikely in a larger disaster. With a planned BOL or not.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:02 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:It's not "can't be done" but "aren't likely target goals for family groups, particularly those with young, old, or otherwise not in military condition."

This is Zombie Squad not Military Squad.
Lots of past glory in this thread. :lol: Yea know what's really going to kill people? Zombies, solar storm, earthquake or gamma ray burst? No it's probably going to be obesity, hypertension, heart disease and diabetes. So if people really want to increase their survivability go for a walk. Raise that heart rate 35 minutes a day, 5 days a week and don't worry about thru hikers and those in "military condition". Right now I am putting on my daypack for a 5-mile run in the November rain. Guessing some people are faster and others slower than myself. Both mean nothing to me.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by MacWa77ace » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:12 pm

Woods Walker wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:It's not "can't be done" but "aren't likely target goals for family groups, particularly those with young, old, or otherwise not in military condition."

This is Zombie Squad not Military Squad.
Lots of past glory in this thread. :lol: Yea know what's really going to kill people? Zombies, solar storm, earthquake or gamma ray burst? No it's probably going to be obesity, hypertension, heart disease and diabetes. So if people really want to increase their survivability go for a walk. Raise that heart rate 35 minutes a day, 5 days a week and don't worry about thru hikers and those in "military condition". Right now I am putting on my daypack for a 5-mile run in the November rain. Guessing some people are faster and others slower than myself. Both mean nothing to me.
"When being pursued by Zombies or aliens or bears or whatever. I don't have to be fast or strong, I just have to be a little faster than the slowest guy I'm with. And if he's not slow enough, I can always shoot him in the leg." ~ Shane Walsh

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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by moab » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:36 pm

MacWa77ace wrote:
Woods Walker wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:It's not "can't be done" but "aren't likely target goals for family groups, particularly those with young, old, or otherwise not in military condition."

This is Zombie Squad not Military Squad.
Lots of past glory in this thread. :lol: Yea know what's really going to kill people? Zombies, solar storm, earthquake or gamma ray burst? No it's probably going to be obesity, hypertension, heart disease and diabetes. So if people really want to increase their survivability go for a walk. Raise that heart rate 35 minutes a day, 5 days a week and don't worry about thru hikers and those in "military condition". Right now I am putting on my daypack for a 5-mile run in the November rain. Guessing some people are faster and others slower than myself. Both mean nothing to me.
"When being pursued by Zombies or aliens or bears or whatever. I don't have to be fast or strong, I just have to be a little faster than the slowest guy I'm with. And if he's not slow enough, I can always shoot him in the leg." ~ Shane Walsh

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LOL! Good one.

I think the point here is that some naysayers were doubting what a military trained person could accomplish on a hike. It's doable. Enough said.

But probably not a good idea in a PAW. As number one it will probably put you in greater danger. And number two not nearly enough people are going to be in that kind of shape. Probably a very small percentage.

So like WW says. Let's all get off our asses and hit the road or hill or treadmill or whatever you have to get your ass in better shape and health. It's a no brainer. And probably the number one overlooked or not worked on prep there is - your own physical health.

(I for one am appalled at how not taken care of my teeth are. I've needed a few root canals for a while now. But I can't get back to the reservation (where I get free healthcare including dental) to get the root canals I need. (It takes several weeks. You can't get them done all at once.) That's on the top of my list. Getting my teeth fixed! I do get my blood work done regularly. And stay on top of everything else that I can with local insurance. And am on the treadmill or outside 6-7 days a week. But dental is a "B". The price of dental work has gotten out of control in this nation. You need the price of a used car just to get work done. If it wasn't for my Indian Healthcare I don't know what our family would do. I guess go in debt over some cavities. I don't know how other families do it. The cost is truly prohibitive. Even if you have coverage. We've had local coverage before and it sucked. I've got other family members that just have them all pulled and get dentures. Cause they can't afford the upkeep on their original teeth. I don't know what the price difference is there. But it's got to be great. I guess you'd have to pack a whole lot of Polygrip in your BOB. lol! I know not funny. But there are so many important physical preps that we never seem to talk about as much.)
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Kilo147 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:01 pm

Walking is fine. Even fully loaded I can make it to my secondary and tertiary locations in under an hour, including setup. My primary location relies on my secondary or tertiary location being used for a few days anyway. It'd be stupid to run off without assessing the situation, consulting with friends and family, and carefully plotting routes, depending on the disaster. There's only a few things that can realistically go wrong, after all.

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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:16 pm

MacWa77ace wrote:
Woods Walker wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:It's not "can't be done" but "aren't likely target goals for family groups, particularly those with young, old, or otherwise not in military condition."

This is Zombie Squad not Military Squad.
Lots of past glory in this thread. :lol: Yea know what's really going to kill people? Zombies, solar storm, earthquake or gamma ray burst? No it's probably going to be obesity, hypertension, heart disease and diabetes. So if people really want to increase their survivability go for a walk. Raise that heart rate 35 minutes a day, 5 days a week and don't worry about thru hikers and those in "military condition". Right now I am putting on my daypack for a 5-mile run in the November rain. Guessing some people are faster and others slower than myself. Both mean nothing to me.
"When being pursued by Zombies or aliens or bears or whatever. I don't have to be fast or strong, I just have to be a little faster than the slowest guy I'm with. And if he's not slow enough, I can always shoot him in the leg." ~ Shane Walsh

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So here is what I did. Jogged up a dirt road trail with 2 inches of soaked leaves for 2.5 miles. Then went off that to a narrow path crossing the river on a questionable foot bridge. The path was covered in roots & rocks with the ever present wet leaves. Still jogged but had hills and it was so slippery. Did see someone with a mountain bike that had extra wide wheels. Always wanted one of those. Ran down this path for 1 mile then took off my shoes to cross the river which was actually high. The best spot was calf deep. Moving water is powerful, even when shallow plus it was cold but made it across. Then ran up the valley to return to the dirt road. Flew down the remaining 1.5 miles on the wing of eagles or rather much faster than when on the footpath.

As for Shawn Walsh his statement clashes with my observations of predators in action. They don't always go for the slowest. I have seen it first hand multiple times, going after one and seemingly ignoring the rest even passing them. Also it's just foolish as now that person has added to his problems with starting a fight. Shoot someone in the leg and they're liable to blow a hole right through your back. Call me a killjoy. :P

Edit. I just placed that picture. :lol:
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by MacWa77ace » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:22 pm




Shane and Rick, both leaving a guy hogtied on the ground. Another way to do it. Bait.


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Shane eventually got his.

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Yep, this looks about right!

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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:13 pm

MacWa77ace wrote:

Take back everything I said.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by ZombieGranny » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:30 pm

Stercutus wrote:This thread has gotten downright silly with the naysaying.
It's gotten "downright silly" because it has gone FAR away from the original post.
Does anyone remember it?
I have quoted it below...
MPMalloy wrote:Hey Everyone:

Having developed Chronic Bronchitis & COPD, I've faced the reality that I am not bugging out by foot. I emptied my BOB and I am now cleaning out the BOV as well. I am putting the basic in a sterlite-type tub and I will put that in the BOV. Vans may look big from the outside, but once you look at living in them (VanDwelling); they are seriously cramped.
I would have assumed the thread would have gone the direction of the best way to pack a vehicle, not discussing military conditioning.
In my day, we didn't have virtual reality.
If a one-eyed razorback barbarian warrior was chasing you with an ax, you just had to hope you could outrun him.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:39 pm

ZombieGranny wrote:
Stercutus wrote:This thread has gotten downright silly with the naysaying.
It's gotten "downright silly" because it has gone FAR away from the original post.
Does anyone remember it?
I have quoted it below...
MPMalloy wrote:Hey Everyone:

Having developed Chronic Bronchitis & COPD, I've faced the reality that I am not bugging out by foot. I emptied my BOB and I am now cleaning out the BOV as well. I am putting the basic in a sterlite-type tub and I will put that in the BOV. Vans may look big from the outside, but once you look at living in them (VanDwelling); they are seriously cramped.
I would have assumed the thread would have gone the direction of the best way to pack a vehicle, not discussing military conditioning.
The internet is like a river. One never knows the exact course over time. There are rules against being off topic however because the topic does include the physical ability to bug out on foot conditioning IMHO is sorta on topic and with the Off Topic rule IMHO sorta is good enough unless it's blatant trolling.

Van talk is cool as well.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by ZombieGranny » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:56 pm

Yeah, I figured it was a lost cause after what happened when I tried to get people back to the original point before.
Thought I'd give it a try once again anyway, as that was something I was interested in.
Oh well, I'll just ignore the thread from now on when it pops up on my list.
In my day, we didn't have virtual reality.
If a one-eyed razorback barbarian warrior was chasing you with an ax, you just had to hope you could outrun him.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:00 pm

ZombieGranny wrote:Yeah, I figured it was a lost cause after what happened when I tried to get people back to the original point before.
Thought I'd give it a try once again anyway, as that was something I was interested in.
Oh well, I'll just ignore the thread from now on when it pops up on my list.
Maybe start a thread on the topic. If it goes to shit send me a PM and I will kill the thread for you. We are good like that. :)
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by moab » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:27 pm

The OP obviously bailed. At least we made something constructive out of it. lol! ;) I kind of like the idea of a free flowing "what's everybody up to thread?". I've enjoyed almost "chatting" with all of you on this topic. But I think there's a place for that already. Isn't it called the Winchester or something?

Anyway. Anybody want to talk vans? :)
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:43 pm

moab wrote:
Anyway. Anybody want to talk vans? :)
I spent a good amount of time as a kid camping out of a VW camper van with pop up top. It was really nice! I wish it wasn't sold a few years ago.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Stercutus » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:56 pm

moab wrote:The OP obviously bailed. At least we made something constructive out of it. lol! ;) I kind of like the idea of a free flowing "what's everybody up to thread?". I've enjoyed almost "chatting" with all of you on this topic. But I think there's a place for that already. Isn't it called the Winchester or something?

Anyway. Anybody want to talk vans? :)

Didn't Dawgboy have a nice van? I doubt he could have walked far carrying it.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:16 am

Hey Everyone:

I have been beset by computer problems. Again.

Does anyone know of a mattress between a Twin & a Twin XL?

I am just screwed with respects to how little space I have in my van.

(her name is Lucy)



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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Stercutus » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:29 am

Some of the bunk beds come in odd sizes. You might go to a furniture store and see what they have in bunk mattresses. Futon mattresses come in odd sizes too.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:35 am

Thank you.


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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by NamelessStain » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:16 am

Plus you can customize the size of memory foam if you don't mind sleeping on it.
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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by Close_enough » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:37 am

A twin XL is 6 inches longer then a regular twin at 39" wide x 80" long

http://www.sleeptrain.com/mattress-size ... chart.html

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Re: Accepting Reality

Post by moab » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:29 pm

You might try IKEA too. They have a lot of different mattress and beds. They have thinner lighter ones too. That might actually roll up or fold in half. But memory foam works too. I used to have a cheap supplier. Let me see if I can find it.

EDIT - Can't find it. Dig on google. There are places that sell it for less. For a mattress I would get at least 4 inches. We have it on all of our beds. It wouldn't be that uncomfortable.

I would also consider something that is movable. Like a mattress that can roll up. And a bed that folds up or can be used as a table during the day? You should try to think multiuse in such a small space. Glad your back! This has been a very popular thread. Unfortunately little about van's though. lol.
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