Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by DrJack » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:02 am

Any links to those threads about PVC frames?

@Murph, we are on a website for emergency preparedness that uses a Zombie Apocalypse as a metaphor for what we do.... and you say Dragon*Con requires a suspension of disbelief?

@TacAir, Where can you find a Pack and frame for $25? I see them more like $60-$80 around Ft Stewart. Also, REI is not where you want to go for low budget items.

Check out
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___90343" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/vaude- ... rFamily=02" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For an internal and external option that is in the 60-80 price range. (And also NIB)

I've not used those packs specifically but have used others by those brands. I Prefer them to my Alice in comfort and usability. Not as bombproof as my alice, but can easily stand up to rugged use.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by TacAir » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:00 pm

DrJack wrote:
@TacAir, Where can you find a Pack and frame for $25? I see them more like $60-$80 around Ft Stewart. Also, REI is not where you want to go for low budget items.
Ah - Craigslist. Just checked, there are 3 ALICE rucks for $30 - OBO.

Another 'military ruck' is listed on post for $60 (LOL) with extra pouches - I suspect it is a MOLLE ruck.

REI isn't low budget, but they back their gear 100% - even if the user does something...well. stupid.

I do get some good deals around here, I picked up an almost new ECWs (Arctic) sleeping bag for 20 bucks at a GROJ sale on post. One of these days I just know I'm going to find a down CASEVAC bag for my very own...still in the plastic bag.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by DrJack » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:25 pm

Oh, I'm a HUGE fan of REI, but I'm more into spending money and crying once.

Also, as the drawdown continues, I'll see if a casevac bag can make it back to the states tucked in some Cubby hole.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Zombiefever » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:07 am

Dr Jack. Here is the link I first came across that gave me the idea for a pvc frame.
http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthrea ... rame-for-3
Also found a thread here at ZS about the frame and a couple youtube vids as well.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Murph » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:56 pm

I don't know why everyone is pointing their fingers at me... I wasn't the first to say anything anyones' personal body dimensions.
Reread this:
Murph wrote:Or the option no one likes to talk about...
If you ASSUME this meant something about being over weight, well...
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by slannesh » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:16 am

Murph wrote:I don't know why everyone is pointing their fingers at me... I wasn't the first to say anything anyones' personal body dimensions.
Reread this:
Murph wrote:Or the option no one likes to talk about...
If you ASSUME this meant something about being over weight, well...

Really? Well if it looks like a Murph and walks like a Murph and quacks like a Murph it's probably a Murph. Seriously dude, past history on any thread you've been involved in where someone's weight is brought up means it's a pretty safe guess. If you were referring to something else please enlighten us, I'd love to be wrong in this instance.

I was serious before when I was asking you to explain your obvious disdain, feel free to tell me to pound sand but I'm curious since it seems to be a recurring theme, and not a particularly helpful one in most of the threads I've come across it in.

Back on topic, OP: Did you decide what you're doing? Getting the cheap ALICE for now or saving up for something more suitable?
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Zombiefever » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:06 am

Well Already have the Medium Alice. Without the frame it feels pretty good with the exception of my crap in the bag poking my back. :gonk: I started cutting the pieces of PVP to size and hope to start getting the pieces fit the way I want them and ready for assembly on Sunday. Working 3rd shift for the hospital throws all my plans in the shitter most of the time so we shall see. Only good thing about working late at the hospital is that IF the dead start walking, Ill probably hear about it before most and get the hell out. :clap:
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by ghost792 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:54 pm

If you use a closed cell sleeping pad, you can loosely roll it up, then put it vertically into the ALICE pack. Let the sleeping pad unroll inside and it will act as a sort of internal frame for the pack. Put all of your gear on the inside of the sleeping pad and it won't poke you in the back anymore.

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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Murph » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:36 am

slannesh wrote:
Murph wrote:I don't know why everyone is pointing their fingers at me... I wasn't the first to say anything anyones' personal body dimensions.
Reread this:
Murph wrote:Or the option no one likes to talk about...
If you ASSUME this meant something about being over weight, well...

Really? Well if it looks like a Murph and walks like a Murph and quacks like a Murph it's probably a Murph. Seriously dude, past history on any thread you've been involved in where someone's weight is brought up means it's a pretty safe guess. If you were referring to something else please enlighten us, I'd love to be wrong in this instance.

I was serious before when I was asking you to explain your obvious disdain, feel free to tell me to pound sand but I'm curious since it seems to be a recurring theme, and not a particularly helpful one in most of the threads I've come across it in.

Back on topic, OP: Did you decide what you're doing? Getting the cheap ALICE for now or saving up for something more suitable?
...save up some money and buy a pack that fits and can carry the gear you have instead of buying some busted piece of $5 surplus that you have to tailor what gear you can carry around.

So if you have a sand pit near you...
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
"When planning, prepare for the most likely, and then the most catastrophic."
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Zombiefever » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:27 am

Jesus Murph. I've been lurking on here for a while and I must say, helpfull your not. I HAVE a $5 backpack, it is not busted, in fact it's in pretty friggin good shape. I have seen many many many people on this site and others that rock the Alice and love it. It DOES have the room I need and works pretty damn good as it is. I started this post for HELPFULL information on the topic I started, not to A) get your idiotic comments on my weight, B) get your ideas on what worth the ALICE has, or C) listen to any of your stupid comments that have NOTHING to do with my question. So PLEASE shove off and try to make a VALUBLE contribution instead of the BS you've been spouting so far. I must say, IF we were being chased by zombies, I wouldn't have to think very hard about who I would shoot in the leg. Have a nice day.
Last edited by Zombiefever on Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Zombiefever » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:29 am

ghost792, thanks for the idea. I will need to try that. :-)
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by slannesh » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:33 pm

Ok then. I do happen to have a sand pit nearby. ;)

Murphy, you obviously get off on being an asshole about the weight thing, so I'll kindly invite you to add me to your foe list. I've already done the same.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Nutpantz » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:08 pm

I have to say I had an Alice pack with frame for years.I stand 6'3 and a few extra pounds.I loved that pack.it felt good worked good and was as durable as you can get. It's hard for me to find a pack that fits good and I have spent hours at various stores looking at packs and buying a few,but I went back to the Alice pack time and again.
I finally retired it a few years ago.
Never did a thing to it other than change the belt.

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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Zombiefever » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:26 am

ok, So I promised pix. I took a few photos while working on the frame. I am not completly finished with it yet but here is what I have so far.

Here I have the sections laid out before I filled them with expanding foam for a little extra rigidity.
Image
IMAG1602 by zombiefever78, on Flickr

Here it is after I filled it with foam, put it together and painted it.
Image
IMAG1635 by zombiefever78, on Flickr
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IMAG1638 by zombiefever78, on Flickr
Next I'm going to wrap part of it in duct tape and the rest in paracord. I tried it out with the pack on and it is pretty damn comfortable. More pix to follow.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by ninja-elbow » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:20 am

OP, sorry to use this as my soapbox for what I am about to type...

To all that posted in this thread regarding bodyweight and why you can't bring it up:
None of you can bring it up because from my experience you are all assholes about it. Did you know that none of you, in this thread, has posted in a lose weight thread a "good job" or some support to the person losing weight? You only point your fingers and then argue why you should be able to call people "fatty". Did you know you do this? I'll tell you right off that it makes you look like an asshole.

Phil, how does this sound to you?:
Did you ever think that, though you lost 60 pounds 10 years ago, that your heart attack was from your shitty genetics?
Did that sound friendly or respectful? I know you have a following here on ZS and in life and such so a lot of people won't say that to you. When you talk to people about weight loss you sound like a jerk though. Like you are angry and stressed out about it. You should learn to react differently maybe.

All of you who've posted in this thread about the OP needing to lose weight need to go take a lesson in how to communicate that fact without sounding like a big fucking asshole. I don't know if anyone has ever told you that before so here I am doing it (and risking quite a lot actually). How do I know this? I got to Weight Watcher meetings and this is what is said in those meetings.

Calling someone out on being fat in a rude manner (like you all do) is failure. You all have failed. It makes you look like a poor human being too. If you are going to type stuff for people to read on a nationally open forum board you should be a better person and learn to do it in a nicer manner. Many other people are successful at it so now you should choose whether you'd like to be successful at it too.

Murph, I typically stay away from you, mod or not, as we got beef in the past (remember when you called me a homo in a PM?). This is a warning from me now. If you cannot communicate on this forum without sounding like a useless asshole than I will take this further. Got it?
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by ninja-elbow » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:27 am

OP, again I apologize fro using your thread as a soapbox.

All advise in this thread regarding the ALICE pack is good and you should heed it and mess around with that $5 pack of yours. I'm doing the same with some Large ALICE stuff I have here.

Check out this thread:
http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... 4&t=106048" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No judgment there (or I'll delete the post) regardless if you want to lose weight or not.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Gingerbread Man » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:17 am

Damn Elbow! Well put, eloquent word smithing my good man.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by jamoni » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:16 am

Did the foam help appreciably with rigidity? I would think the difference would be small compared to the weight added. the tubular section of PVC is already well designed for rigidity and bending resistance, and adding material to the middle is adding it to the least useful area. Especially when the material added has low bending strength itself. Just curious.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:51 am

ninja-elbow wrote:OP, sorry to use this as my soapbox for what I am about to type...

To all that posted in this thread regarding bodyweight and why you can't bring it up:
None of you can bring it up because from my experience you are all assholes about it. Did you know that none of you, in this thread, has posted in a lose weight thread a "good job" or some support to the person losing weight? You only point your fingers and then argue why you should be able to call people "fatty". Did you know you do this? I'll tell you right off that it makes you look like an asshole.

Phil, how does this sound to you?:
Did you ever think that, though you lost 60 pounds 10 years ago, that your heart attack was from your shitty genetics?
Did that sound friendly or respectful? I know you have a following here on ZS and in life and such so a lot of people won't say that to you. When you talk to people about weight loss you sound like a jerk though. Like you are angry and stressed out about it. You should learn to react differently maybe.

All of you who've posted in this thread about the OP needing to lose weight need to go take a lesson in how to communicate that fact without sounding like a big fucking asshole. I don't know if anyone has ever told you that before so here I am doing it (and risking quite a lot actually). How do I know this? I got to Weight Watcher meetings and this is what is said in those meetings.

Calling someone out on being fat in a rude manner (like you all do) is failure. You all have failed. It makes you look like a poor human being too. If you are going to type stuff for people to read on a nationally open forum board you should be a better person and learn to do it in a nicer manner. Many other people are successful at it so now you should choose whether you'd like to be successful at it too.

Murph, I typically stay away from you, mod or not, as we got beef in the past (remember when you called me a homo in a PM?). This is a warning from me now. If you cannot communicate on this forum without sounding like a useless asshole than I will take this further. Got it?
I have a history of being an asshole, but not about weight. Mind if I give this a try?

Weight is a big nasty elephant in the room. It's also somewhat subjective, but when it comes right down to it, losing weight can only help you in the long run. Most gear is not cut for fat, so even if you do find a 3XL pack, it's going to be sized for a fit 3XL. I won't claim to be Skinny McFitpants. IF I worked out 1/10th as much as I shoot, practice shooting, or working on guns then I'd be a crossfit champ, but I keep looking at my genetics and realizing that I can either prepare now and try to minimize my chances of diabetes, HPB, stroke, cancer, and heart attack, or I can ignore it.

The PVC frame pack has been tried before. In one instance I recall, it didn't work. In the other, I don't remember the poster completing it and coming back, but that may have been on another forum. Regardless, when you're having trouble finding gear sized for you, it may be a sign to re-evaluate a bit. It's not 100%, and I know a handful of very in shape guys who couldn't wear anything short of a custom frame due to Dwayne Johnson shoulders, but I do think when discussion bug out gear it's important to note that fitness is rule one if you're planning an on-foot bugout, and the ancillary benefits are numerous.

Forgive me for not posting "hurray" in weight loss threads. It seems a bit hypocritical of me to do so until I get to where I'm comfortable with my own weight, and frankly it's not my style to congratulate someone for losing weight. Saying things like "Okay, that's a start, now lets work on cardio" and the like seems more dickish on the internet form a stranger than it does from your workout buddy over a bottle of gatorade. I'm of the mind that the second you're happy with the way you look, satisfied with the amount you lift, or content with your run time you stop improving noticeably. I believe in pushing someone to improve, not congratulating them for achieving the first in what should be a long line of goals. I'm starting to sound a bit dickish, but I assure you it comes from a spirit of helpful competition and not one of superiority or superciliousness.

Lastly: shit genetics are something you can't change. Weight loss and diet are things you can. Not to pick on phil, but would he have been any less likely to have a heart attack if he'd not lost the weight? The answer is no, he would not, and in a case like his I'm willing to wager money that the weight loss and exercise did more to stave it off and help him survive. At least, that's what the doctor keeps telling my dad with regards to weight loss.

I don't think weight loss should be a taboo subject. We can tell someone to ditch shit gear, to get a better plan, tell them that they aren't going to be able to walk 115mi in 3 days with just a nalgene and a half an MRE, but the second someone says "Well, I just mathed your BMI in the range of 34-38 (don't start that, there are maybe 4 motherfuckers on this board for whom BMI is not a good baseline metric) and you're wearing a 2XL (not picking on you OP I swear, it's a common trope) shirt, are you sure you can hike that far that fast? Have you considered improving your physical health before buying that nuclear missile silo?" everybody gets upset. Personally I think it's a valid point to make, even though nobody likes to say it. Physical fitness is the least expensive prep to make and the most overlooked. Obviously the old 1/8 battalion motto applies (Don't be an asshole) but I don't think it's fair for someone to ask for advice regarding a piece of gear, particularly in regards to sizing and then get upset when someone suggest the best option there is for getting a better pack fit.

I too will step off my soapbox. OP: I think the Alice system is the Mosin Nagant of the pack wold. IT's everywhere because it survived a bunch of wars, it's cheap, and it does function as a basic ruck. IT's uncomfortable, heavy, and severely outdated. Some people make it work, others jsut claim to, but no matter what it will never serve you as well as a nicer ruck will if you intend to put any serious mileage on it. In my experience, the frames are the first thing to go. I recommend focusing on some weight loss, as even my mild love handles will chafe like a motherfucker when I start packing on the miles, and the ALICE will only make it worse. I also recommend starting a pack piggy bank for a nicer ruck. Like a rifle, take your time, research, try on a few, and do a lot of reading while you save some pennies. getting your first truly great pack is like the first time you buy your own car; you never forget it and you'll cherish it until you buy something even cooler. The comfort difference is phenomenal. Trust me, I carried an Alice medium on my first Afghan tour and an Eberlestock Gunslinger II on my second.

Hopefully I've handled that as best I can and articulated without being a dick why weight control and fitness is more important than just about anything else. And I promise not to call anyone a homo.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by jnathan » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:49 am

If I were building an BOB on a very limited budget and got an ALICE pack in good condition for $5, I'd do a happy dance.

One issue I'd be paying attention to is whether or not the suspension is long enough to accommodate you, this isn't the same thing as whether or not the frame itself is. You can wear the frame in the proper position and if the shoulder straps are long enough, you may be fine.

When I read people talking about where the lumbar pad will hit you, I wonder why they're talking about carrying the pack high rather than low (so that it's in the proper position relative to your anatomy).

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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by crypto » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:22 am

I will offer some cautionary advice on the PVC alice pack frame replacement:

PVC is brittle. I know that sounds odd because you can flex it so easily, but there is a big difference in materials science between flexibility and ductility. It is very poor at handling shock loads.

Without boring you with the details, PVC will flex until it reaches its limit, then break. And I guarantee you that the first time you drop a fully loaded ruck on the corner of the frame, you will exceed its limit and then some, and be a sad panda. I would recommend filling it full of bricks or full gallon jugs of water, holding it up at shoulder level, and dropping it on concrete a few times to see what happens. You will very likely change your mind on its suitability to task.
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by SpookStrickland » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:55 pm

I like this Ninja Elbow guy.

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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by maldon007 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:12 pm

PVC is also degraded quickly by sunlight, and becomes MORE brittle... As far as loosing weight to hike better/fit gear better/etc. I have done it, just finished getting to my goal weight of 200lb down from 258lb, so yeah in 7 months I lost 58 lb. it is REALLY COOL!!! To be a size that works better for EVERYTHING, that is all I will say about that, unless I am asked (pm).

As far as ALICE, I love mine attached to a gen 4 MOLE frame and stripped down a bit for weight savings... I also have another gen 4 I have ultralighted by trimming and hole drilling, to about half the regular weight & I have attached a 55ltr VERY light pack to it for my dad, not tested in the field yet, but feels great under weight!
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Re: Alice Pack on a 3XL Guy

Post by BigDaddyTX » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:00 am

Ooooh.. I was going to post this in the BMI thread that got locked, but since we're doing that to this one..

6'4", 235# BMI? 28.6 = Overweight. 1.3 pts from Obese. Yay to be 1 of 4!

I'm higher up right now, but I've still lost 50# in a year and I'm more slowly still continuing down.

2 different versions of it though. In the crappy pic, I worked out, ran, etc., the second is pretty much just weight loss without working out.

http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/mjprize/library/Mark" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OT:
Consider finding an aluminum frame from another backpack that fits you better, and trying to fit the pack on it. I use one from Academy that kinda sucks, but fits on my 6'3" frame well. YMMV since the frame doesn't claim to be large or anything, but the weight rests well on my hips.

http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/store ... rt&Ntk=All" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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