Falling Skies

Zombie and/or other Post-Apocalyptic related movies for us to study and know what not to do.

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Re: Falling Skies

Post by basm » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:16 pm

Wrangler wrote:So what did you guys hate about this weeks episode?
One of the biggest irritations is that nobody was guarding the prisoner, and it was free to be abused/killed by anyone with a bone to grind, before they could get a chance to learn about it. I did not like that that became a contrived plot device by making it convenient for the kid's dad to shove a gun down its throat so that they could find it had a weak spot.

Still chafing that the prisoner is even in the middle of the place where all the survivors/fighters are holed up. Especially now that they have seen that it is affecting radio equipment somehow.

But also, why was the kid left alone with the prisoner, to recover from surgery, and the alien device they took off him was left with them? Lazy writing, yet another plot device.

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Re: Falling Skies

Post by yale » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:24 am

I also was frustrated by the gapping plot holes in this and last weeks episodes. Last week the guy sees his son, freaks out and rushes into the crowd to grab him. Screw planning anything or worrying about the mechs blasting the heck out of you. Just start running and shouting at your son and almost getting everyone killed. Then this week the same guy assaults the prisoner, WHICH THEY LEFT UN GUARDED and THEN the same guy rips the harness off the kid JUST AS THEY WERE STARTING TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE PRISONER!!! AAAGGGGG!!!!!. This guy should be put in a cage of his own. What the Frack is wrong with these people? There are 300 of them hanging around the old school? Shouldn't the kid be in a makeshift infirmery/sickbay being watched 24/7 by anyone with Nurses Aid or even First Aid training? Shouldn't the harness be locked up in a lab of some sort? Forgive me as I'm just an old tank driver from the Desert Storm days who really doesn't have all sorts of superduper skills in leading or organizing a mob in a Post-alien invasion world but ddaaammmnnn.... I'd like to think that I wouldn't be messing up like these guys are.
As for the We have learned something about them comments, I really don't think so. OK, they sleep when they can, hanging upside down. They communicate via short range radio with the kids. Why do they harness kids and not adults? Why are they using the kids to pick through buildings? Why are they on Earth in the first place? Why send a wall of armed kids to attack the motorcycle shop instead of a armored mech or two? The skidders may be controling the kids but who controls the skiders because they don't strike me as a creature capable of building complex machines such as interstellar ships or even mechs. No opposable thumbs and the such. Also, where are the skidders weapons? As I said, no thumbs so does that mean no holding rifles? I think the skidders are the field hands, the crew drivers and there are others we havn't seen yet controlling them and their actions.
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by Paladin1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:08 am

Lazy writing is my problem with it.

Everyone lives around there but only Pope knows where the motorcycle shop is? and they don't tie his hands, send him into the back room with only one guard, and that idiot turns his back on him?

Did I miss something or didn't Pope's people attack and kill one of the milita? did he not take the rest prisoner and blackmail them for food and weapons? Did he not engage in a fire fight with them?

If they wanted him to escape, which you saw coming when they took him with them to look for bikes/gas, they could have done it without it being silly.

I could go one but I would just be repeating 'lazy writing".

Insofar as the skitters go, I do think they are the grunts and the Mechs house the primary aliens.

I'm going to guess the skitters are another conquered race and are being used by the "mechs" The humans learn to communicate with them and some defect or help the humans to over throw the mechs. You read it here first folks.
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by Rugger » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:31 am

The mechs are going to end up being humans or a conquered species. The doc made the comment about the harnesses sprouting tendrils and them spreading throughout the body, plus the kid's CF was cured. The Cystic Fibrosis is the big one. CF is a genetic disease and can only be truly cured by altering DNA.
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by Murph » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:22 am

Maybe they'll figure out that after you remove the harness you have to wrap the kid's head in tinfoil.

:lol:
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by Lucretius » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:31 am

The only positive thing I have to say about this show, is that it is postapocalyptic. 8)

What's up with the main character walking around with a large untreated wound on his face? They do serious, experimental surgery on alien machinery attached to innocent childrens central nervous systems, and they can't find a bandaid to stop this "hero" guy from dying of gangrene in the brain?

How did these people survive the initial attack, when they do their "missions" loudly talking soap opera nonsense, while looking at their feet? Strolling along, totally relaxed, talking about their feelings. To me, a little more paranoia would be sensible, while walking through an alien-invaded terrain. :|



Oh, and hanging a few hand grenades from carabiners on the bottom of your back pack? WTF???
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by basm » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:12 am

Yeah, I think they just mis-pegged this one. They sold it as an end of the world desperate survival of the last scattered members of the human race. What it actually turns out to be is a family drama that is more about family-building and interpersonal relationships. This could have taken place at any time and did not necessarily need an alien invasion as the backdrop.

While it is definitely not the worst thing I have ever seen, there are other issues besides, such as some plot holes and a bit lazy writing. I have seen shows do better with the PAW theme even without the famous name and budget behind them. It is possible for this show to get better so I have not completely written it off just yet. But it needs to dive deeper than just being a family drama. It needs to dive a lot deeper to justify playing out in the landscape it is set in. But if we are halfway into the season, I am not hopeful that the season will suddenly shift gears.

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Re: Falling Skies

Post by silversnake » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:01 am

You know, I can forgive a little bit of lazy writing (like sending the prisoner on the recon mission to get motorcycles) but this thing has really, REALLY lazy writing. Come on, the motorcycle shop is in a suburb of Boston (I think they said Medford or Everett) and no one has a road atlas such that they could find it with just a street name.

Also, my wife keeps pointing out that they didn't even bother to learn the geography of the area for the show. They act like it's just a day hike to get from Acton (which is where I think the resistance is based now if I caught that correctly) to Everett and back. That's 23 miles one way by Google Maps figuring the shortest driving distances! Did they just grab random Boston-area names?


I'm still hanging in there, but it's getting hard to suspend disbelief and it's becoming more about catching the inconsistencies in production than it is about watching the story/action.

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Re: Falling Skies

Post by mr_slappy75 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:30 pm

silversnake wrote:You know, I can forgive a little bit of lazy writing (like sending the prisoner on the recon mission to get motorcycles) but this thing has really, REALLY lazy writing. Come on, the motorcycle shop is in a suburb of Boston (I think they said Medford or Everett) and no one has a road atlas such that they could find it with just a street name


IDK guys, the (seriously) lazy writing is beginning to grind on me b/c they really do not seem to be trying to drive home that it is supposed to primarily be a fight for survival of the human race and about a nascent resistance movement. It is like you both said: Family drama 1st everything else 2nd.

I’d like to make an off the cuff comparison with a Sc- Fi show which first and second season I really got into even though it is not entirely on the same wavelength as FS: Star Gate Universe (SGU).

Granted the Star Gate franchise is very well established and greatly loved, but please bear with me b/c I want to point out the few plot elements that both shows have in common and how SGU has done a pretty good job of getting the audience to understand how utterly precarious the main characters situation is.
So a bunch of humans get stuck on a decrepit (think hundreds of millennia old) alien ship, the thing is on autopilot and just about anything that can be wrong with it is: No food, water, dry goods, weapons or ammo, other than what our heroes brought with them, no means to control the vessel, life support is iffy at best, and the stupid ship jumps out of Faster Than Light (FTL) travel at random intervals whenever it damn well feels like it and there is a world with a Star Gate on it.

Ok so it is not Post Apocalyptic but it is still a very grim survival situation, if you have a chance watch the first season either on demand or on line. Every episode packs, along with all the interpersonal drama –which there is plenty of- a very large amount of time and exposition of just how screwed these people are and what they are trying to do to help their situation, survival is the driving force of several of the first episodes of that series: From trying to coax the ship’s life support systems to continue working, to scavenging for food and water at any plausibly inhabitable world they stop at, trying to maximize perishables on hand, manage ammo and even mend the few clothes they have; Add to all that encounters with aliens that want to take the ship from them, a lot of backroom politics and rivalries between several factions within the ship’s fragmented human groups: Military vs. Civilians, even divisions within both groups…I think that FS should take some pointers.
Also, my wife keeps pointing out that they didn't even bother to learn the geography of the area for the show. They act like it's just a day hike to get from Acton (which is where I think the resistance is based now if I caught that correctly) to Everett and back. That's 23 miles one way by Google Maps figuring the shortest driving distances! Did they just grab random Boston-area names?
That seems to be the case, plus y'know it is perfectly acceptable to bring along a socipathic former leader of a biker gang as long as he bakes the entire 300 people strong settlement fresh bread...oh wait did anyone see either the powdered eggs or live chickens they would've needed for that much bread? Just curious, b/c he didn't just bake pita or other 'non egg' bread, those looked like old fashioned rustic loaves. :mrgreen:
I'm still hanging in there, but it's getting hard to suspend disbelief and it's becoming more about catching the inconsistencies in production than it is about watching the story/action.
I guess that inaccuracies and (mayor) plot wholes aside, FS doesn’t do much in the way to try and give us a more rounded big picture, Hell even the ‘little picture’ we are getting is rife with missing perspectives, the writing team seems so driven to shove Mason, his family and clique down our throats often times rather unsubtly that it is just creating apathy in me; Yes his situation sucks but so does everyone else it is bothersome that everything is basically ‘the world according to Mason’ or for Mason or around Mason without getting more engaged with other characters.

Whew. Sorry I guess I had all that pent up. :lol:
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by angrydrunkard » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:54 pm

i have 2 main gripes about this show firstly no one seems to use the little bumps on the top of thier rifles and secondly i know that there must be limited weapons and ammo available but you would think they would strive for magazine commonality within patrols.

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Re: Falling Skies

Post by oldsoldier » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:00 pm

yale wrote:I went to the networks website and watched the behind the scenes and the previews there. Looks good but like so many other End of the World/Invasion movies or tv shows I kept asking myself, "Where the heck are they getting all the ammo and weapons from?" It's 6 months after a major alien invasion and you live in one of the most restrictive states when it comes to firearms ownership, Mass., and you have people running around with AKs and other full auto "assault weapons" and handing out ammo. Come on. I could see a few rifles or pistols pilfered from NG or police armories and even if you have the guns it's a sure bet that ammo would be almost completely used up. Sure we'd be a bit better off than in places with outright bans of military style firearms and little to no civilian ownership of guns (thinking India or China) but still, you'd expect that most of the supplies would be used up in the initial fighting and after 6 months any ammo factories would be long distroyed.
This, sadly, is fact. If aliens were to take over the US, MA would go quickly. But, regardless of this....
There is no bike dealership in Somerville (Slummerville).
WALKING to Acton from Boston is 20 miles, by highway. You also cross 2 major bodies of water-that arent navigable by swimming.
There is NO armory in Acton-if there was, there wouldnt be any weapons, as it would be either medical, or transportation-neither of which have firearms on site. For that, they would need to go to Gardner, Worcester, or Hudson. Which, Hudson is merely 10 minutes away....
Acton CAN be reached by Rt 2, but not directly from Boston-and, its neither the shortest, nor easiest way to get there. Acton is directly of Rt 2, but there are 2 other major roads that make it a little easier to travel.
If they were looking for weapons, they would go another 10 miles west, to Devens, which houses active duty & reserve units-and firearms.
I found it interesting that they had both dirt bikes & Harleys at the bike dealer-last I checked, Harley dealers sell exclusively Harleys...and, again, there aint a harley dealer in Somerville. Besides, they just outlawed motorbikes in a couple of suburbs around boston, because criminals use them for committing crimes.
The show is entertaining, for a Sunday night. But, honestly, I see it as a stand in for TWD for me. I was hoping that they did shoot some of it here-I havent checked the website, but I dont recognize anything yet-there are probably 200 JFK schools in this state....every other town has a JFK junior high, high school, or elementary school-that didnt narrow it down.
I think they purposely avoid towns they cannot pronounce such as Leominster, Worcester, Westminster, Haverhill, etc-those are easy to pick up on if they arent pronounced correctly.
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by azstinger » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:35 pm

@mr_slappy - to bad SGU was canceled after the 2nd season.

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Re: Falling Skies

Post by gelgoog » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:49 pm

I had high hopes for this show but I can barely stand to watch it after 3 episodes. It is worse then V and that also had terrible writing.

What's up with all these seemingly awesome looking sci-fi shows turning into utter dribble? Heros, V, and now this? Yet the fantastic shows like Firefly and SGU get canceled.....I give up on life.

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Re: Falling Skies

Post by Murph » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:59 pm

oldsoldier wrote:This, sadly, is fact. If aliens were to take over the US, MA would go quickly. But, regardless of this....
There is no bike dealership in Somerville (Slummerville).
WALKING to Acton from Boston is 20 miles, by highway. You also cross 2 major bodies of water-that arent navigable by swimming.
*snip*
I think they purposely avoid towns they cannot pronounce such as Leominster, Worcester, Westminster, Haverhill, etc-those are easy to pick up on if they arent pronounced correctly.
YEAH, BUT IT'S IN THE FUTURE! :lol:
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by mr_slappy75 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:59 pm

gelgoog wrote:I had high hopes for this show but I can barely stand to watch it after 3 episodes. It is worse then V and that also had terrible writing.

What's up with all these seemingly awesome looking sci-fi shows turning into utter dribble? Heros, V, and now this? Yet the fantastic shows like Firefly and SGU get canceled.....I give up on life.
Yet hope springs ethernal gelgoog. Although I was unaware that SGU had gotten the ax...bastards. Well at least they still kept Eurka.

I do agree about sci-fi shows that don't deserve the time of day being sent to production without anyone questioning the quality/continuity of the writing. To be honest I didn't even have much in the way of hopes for V and was done with it long before the end of the first episode.

Hey, at least FS is kinda/sorta limping along. I read the webcomics, damn if we could get that kind of action and grit on the TV show this thing might actually be worth keeping around.
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by Murph » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:00 pm

yale wrote:I also was frustrated by the gapping plot holes in this and last weeks episodes. Last week the guy sees his son, freaks out and rushes into the crowd to grab him. Screw planning anything or worrying about the mechs blasting the heck out of you. Just start running and shouting at your son and almost getting everyone killed.
*snip*
No opposable thumbs and the such. Also, where are the skidders weapons? As I said, no thumbs so does that mean no holding rifles? I think the skidders are the field hands, the crew drivers and there are others we havn't seen yet controlling them and their actions.
Well, at least everyone is open carrying, right? :lol:
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
"When planning, prepare for the most likely, and then the most catastrophic."
raptor wrote: Being a gun collector does not make you a prepper.
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by basm » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:27 pm

Here, this article sums up exactly what I've been trying to say but haven't figured out how to:
Cinema Blend wrote: There's a lot I like about Falling Skies -- the central characters and the actors who play them, the suspenseful action scenes, the mystery of the Skitters, and the alien creature design to name a few – but, so far, the show has one glaring flaw: It just looks too damn clean. Too "TV." You know what I mean?

The show is supposed to depict life after the world has crumbled, after most of humanity has been wiped out by killer alien monsters and darkness has fallen over the Earth. But its hard to buy that premise when every scene is so brightly lit and all of the "rag tag survivors" look perfectly clean and happy and healthy. It's hard to believe that they're fighting for their lives in a post-apocalyptic living hell. How are we supposed to become emotionally involved in the characters' struggle when they don't really look like they're struggling?

Everyone still seems to have easy access to makeup and hair product and hair dryers – not to mention bright, unblemished, fully stocked places to "hide out" from the evil alien overlords. Even the scars and bruises on the soldiers' faces look phony, like they were painted on for a school play.
I guess this is part of what's been nagging on me that I couldn't put my finger on.

Part of also what is at odds for me is that nobody is flipping out. There are no emotional issues at hand that I can discern apart from moderate stress, and family and parenting issues. Why again did they set this against an alien apocalypse?

The article goes on:
Maybe I'm just spoiled by four years of Battlestar Galactica, where the characters' levels of desperation, fear, and anxiety were reflected in every aspect of the show, from the scripts and the performances to the lighting, wardrobe, makeup, and the set design.
You see one word used often to describe the PAW world of BSG: gritty. Believe me when I say that that one word sums up everything. These people were desperate. They have just seen their homes, families, friends, pets, all their memories, all their lives disintegrate and they come unglued, understandably. They drink, fight, curse each other out, screw each other, kill each other, kill themselves, cry and blubber, are paranoid, hopeless, hungry, and mentally and emotionally worn out to within an inch of their lives. People were forced to do things they would have never done before, because it was a desperate situation. It showed all the mean, fucked-up behaviors adults get up to when they feel afraid, or feel like they can get away with it because no-one's there to stop them anymore.

I guess that is what I would like to see out of FS, grit.
silversnake wrote:You know, I can forgive a little bit of lazy writing (like sending the prisoner on the recon mission to get motorcycles) but this thing has really, REALLY lazy writing. Come on, the motorcycle shop is in a suburb of Boston (I think they said Medford or Everett) and no one has a road atlas such that they could find it with just a street name

Somerville, wasn't it?

Image

I wasn't paying very close attention to the TV during the whole motorcycle/gasoline scenes but it seems like I remember the motorcycle shop being kind out of out of town. Hello, Somerville is wedged between Boston and Cambridge and is so congested.

And let's see, what'd they do? Acton to Somerville, on foot, in one afternoon? :lol:

Another thing about traveling in Boston and its suburbs: you really "can't get there from here." If you see people that live here having a hard time describing how to get somewhere that is literally just 1 mile down the road, welcome to our nightmare. Roads turn, twist, stop, turn back around, disappear, jump, change names, change directions, change towns, change numbering, have no numbering, have no signage, turn into rotaries, don't connect, don't go anywhere, suddenly turn into 2 or 3 roads, suddenly turn into an alley, go around where you're trying to get to, and just generally don't go there from here. Even the locals who were born here, don't know where the hell they are half the time. They even made an SNL skit many years ago about how impossible it is to get where you're going.

So if the characters are easily jogging down to Somerville right to the motorcycle shop, then they deserve a medal or something. :wink:

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Re: Falling Skies

Post by Paladin1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:52 pm

I can understand them wanting to focus on the drama and interpersonal relationships and strife. They are trying to attract as wide an audience as possible.

But I keep getting distracted by the bullshit.

When Pope got away and blew up the skitters, the mushroom cloud looked to be a freaking mile away, and they even commented that it would attract attention.

And they were right, the mechs (which they had said were present), skitters, etc. would have gone to the scene of the explosion

Instead a grand total of 1 skitter attacks the bike shop with a bunch of harnessed kids? If the shop was being watched they would have been attacked as soon as they went inside.

So I want to enjoy it, but the holes in the writing and plot keeps getting in the way as I go WTF!? every 10 min.

And there is one particular plot line that pisses me off, I won't go into details, but right when people should be looking towards themselves for answers, they look to others.

So I hope it gets better because I so want to like it.
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by Electricity » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:14 am

Having spend the last 6 months of my life in Sommerville, I can tell you, there isn't a damn thing worth salvaging there, except maybe the gardening shop by Union square, but of course, our intrepid bad of survivors in Falling Skies has no interest in creating a reusable food source. They seem so intent on raiding food supplies that are guarded by ..unarmed, easily killed 6 legged monsters that somehow wiped out the entire world's supply of military forces. :roll:
I just don't get the show. Who exactly was it written for? You could take the entire dialog, change a few words here and there, and have the dad driving his kids to soccer practice, and get basically the same thing you're getting now, minus all the frustration from the seemingly ENDLESS supply of lazy, poorly thought out scenes.
Except of course, you'd get better, more realistic action from a soccer match.
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by basm » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:02 am

I don't know if any of you read the Television Without Pity recap/reviews. You should. They are hilarious.
http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/sh ... /grace.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some excerpts:
TWoP wrote:Dr. Anne shows the Skitter some pictures of outer space as a communication tool, and it just sort of breathes heavily in response. Dr. Wings continues to be a dick as Anne wonders what's in the mind of the Skitter. Uncle Scott fashions a radio out of spare parts, and assigns Matt to be the radio monitor / communications officer. It's about time that kid got a job.

Back at the school, Dr. Anne offers the Skitter some water, which she places in the cage through the largest opening ever. As Chekhov always said, if you show a giant Skitter cage opening in the first act, someone is going to get his head eaten in the third.

Meanwhile, Tom and Hal talk about Ben's love for Harry Potter. Hal says that Ben might be a little different now that he's a mind-controlled alien zombie slave.

And then everyone finds that Pope has left a parting gift -- fresh baked bread. Oh Lord, and then fucking Lourdes is saying grace all over the place and everyone becomes inspired to talk about what they're thankful for. Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but it makes me want to cockpunch everyone at the table.
:lol:

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Re: Falling Skies

Post by silversnake » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:00 am

basm wrote:
silversnake wrote:You know, I can forgive a little bit of lazy writing (like sending the prisoner on the recon mission to get motorcycles) but this thing has really, REALLY lazy writing. Come on, the motorcycle shop is in a suburb of Boston (I think they said Medford or Everett) and no one has a road atlas such that they could find it with just a street name

Somerville, wasn't it?

Image

I wasn't paying very close attention to the TV during the whole motorcycle/gasoline scenes but it seems like I remember the motorcycle shop being kind out of out of town. Hello, Somerville is wedged between Boston and Cambridge and is so congested.

And let's see, what'd they do? Acton to Somerville, on foot, in one afternoon? :lol:

Another thing about traveling in Boston and its suburbs: you really "can't get there from here." If you see people that live here having a hard time describing how to get somewhere that is literally just 1 mile down the road, welcome to our nightmare. Roads turn, twist, stop, turn back around, disappear, jump, change names, change directions, change towns, change numbering, have no numbering, have no signage, turn into rotaries, don't connect, don't go anywhere, suddenly turn into 2 or 3 roads, suddenly turn into an alley, go around where you're trying to get to, and just generally don't go there from here. Even the locals who were born here, don't know where the hell they are half the time. They even made an SNL skit many years ago about how impossible it is to get where you're going.

So if the characters are easily jogging down to Somerville right to the motorcycle shop, then they deserve a medal or something. :wink:
+100000000000000000000000000!

It was Slummerville! I can get past the writers putting a bike shop there, even one apparently surrounded by wild green space. After all, that's just slightly jarring to those of us who know the area. My big problem is that none of these locals seem to be able to find the place without the loose cannon "bad guy" (I swear to god I'll probably puke and throw a brick through my TV at the same time when he has some sort of epiphany/redeeming event in another episode or two) along for the ride yet they seem to be able to make Acton to Somerville a quick morning hike. Don't the writers even own a road atlas of the Boston area or know how to use Google Maps?

I completely know what you mean about the lack of grit too. It really does make it rub the wrong way even if you take out the other inconsistencies. I'm just still watching because I get more enjoyment out of the week of criticizing/picking apart that goes on between episodes online. ;)

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oldsoldier
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by oldsoldier » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:06 am

Basm, you go to the motorcycle shop there???? :)
I REALLY want to see them walk to Acton from Somerville...I dont think there are ANY rural routes out of the city. And, I am STILL looking for the armory in Acton-no luck yet....
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by basm » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:27 pm

oldsoldier wrote:Basm, you go to the motorcycle shop there???? :)
Whaaat, I go there every day! I love looking at the Kawasakis and Harleys all together like that. Plus Somerville is basically in a big field, it feels like being in Canada. When I'm done there I like to walk over to Acton for snacks at the armory. It's great, you should join us, we have some chef from Lynn gonna bake us some bread later :D

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oldsoldier
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Re: Falling Skies

Post by oldsoldier » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:38 pm

We can head over to Springfield in the afternoon too-they have some great views out there of the Blackstone Valley...
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