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Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:54 am
by MacAttack
MacWa77ace wrote:
ineffableone wrote:
majorhavoc wrote:Can anyone tell me what that 'maze of death' was between Madison and Susan's house? Very effective for setting up a dramatic escape, but what the hell? I've seen elaborate trellises before, but that one reminded me not so much of a garden but of Carcosa's twig maze from True Detective.
I had similar thoughts, and can only come up with that they had to up the drama a bit so made the trellis into some sort of maze. I don't think any rational backyard garden trellis system would ever be designed like that.
Me too, when I first saw that when they jumped over the fence I was thinking, 'what the hell, who has that and why?'. Then my rationalization was that they must make a killer Halloween Haunted House each year for the neighborhood kids. 'Cause they seemed to be able to navigate straight thru it like they'd been there before.
MacAttack wrote:Ok here is a question.

Since they obviously have no morals and in the first day or two of the outbreak decided that breaking into a school and their own neighbors house and stealing things was fine....... Why didn't they walk across the street and take the neighbors obviously better truck and what looks like a load of provisions he left behind.

Instead they are driving that crappy truck with almost nothing but a few canned goods and a shotgun.

If you have reduced yourself to scavenging from the dead or steeling then why not get the best you can find?

And I hope, no I pray that this group since it has resorted to theft stops passing up every obviously dead cop and solder out there and starts to grab some equipment off of them.


Good gracious just how much military equipment has the WD crew passed up in the last few years?
It may not be a great idea to be driving a 'borrowed' vehicle when there are military/police check points going up and Law and Order may still be in existence. In other words it'd be too soon to start commandeering stuff, give it another week. Plus Salazar may need something to bug out with in the next episode.


You seriously think that with 20 millioin people driving out of LA the cops and especially the solders are going to be checking IDs and vehicle registrations?
Do you have any idea what would happen to a cop who tried to stop, inspect and ID every vehicle leaving Florida while a hurricane was coming in? He would be fired before he could get the words "I was just looking for stolen vehicles" out.
During Hurricane Katrina Jabbar Gibson stole a BUS and drove to Houston. He stopped for gas three times and was never pulled over by the cops. On a 7 hour drive. In a school bus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabbar_Gibson

Not one cop is going to think twice about a cheap pickup loaded with a family.

As for body armor just remove any identifying tags and it looks like anything you can buy from any online retailer. As for any "found" guns. hide the military looking ones under a blanket or something and keep the civilian looking ones down.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:34 am
by Red Tamarillo
raistlin wrote:
CarolinaPeach wrote:Also, I don't see Travis as being necessarily weak but he is very clearly having trouble adjusting to how he is going to have to act in order to survive and help his family survive. His character is in much the same position as that of Noah Wyle's Tom Mason in Falling Skies in that he's educated and knowledgeable but hasn't really had to step out of his comfort zone of being a husband/father/teacher but now that Things Are Happening and, Danger, he's going to have to adjust. I expect we'll see Travis's instincts and ingenuity stepping up the game.
Yep. I think maybe the writers are interested in showing him transform. Look at TWD. Carol obviously changed dramatically due to the apocalypse. She was an abused wife to begin with. During the flashbacks, Michonne definitely was a character who was shown to be more normal by societal standards prior to the tragedy that struck her.
My point was a transformation can still happen from a zero to hero, that is (more) believable. You don't need to start at sub zero to show a transformation.
The writers feeling the need to do that implies they think their audience is stupid. Even stupid people have pride.

A civilian with a baseball bat or butcher knife vs a zombie breaking into their house can at this stage of the story be scripted to not be 100% effective and that tells us where they are in the story, but also gives them some brain.

After watching redlettermedia's digital star wars movies reviews (and how George Lucas effed them up) I really noticed RLM's point about protaganists and identifying with the main character/s in this series. To identify with a character you have to feel they are believable.
Local knowledge from New Zealand make's Cliffs maori character unbelievable (to me). The writers aren't New Zealanders.

And like I said the effective guy with the shotgun has shown he's a hero (fierce, focused, desensitised and prepared to act), but then does nothing about gathering weapons/supplies to protect his family- unbelievable again. He transforms backwards.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:38 am
by dogbane
Red Tamarillo wrote:
raistlin wrote:
CarolinaPeach wrote:Also, I don't see Travis as being necessarily weak but he is very clearly having trouble adjusting to how he is going to have to act in order to survive and help his family survive. His character is in much the same position as that of Noah Wyle's Tom Mason in Falling Skies in that he's educated and knowledgeable but hasn't really had to step out of his comfort zone of being a husband/father/teacher but now that Things Are Happening and, Danger, he's going to have to adjust. I expect we'll see Travis's instincts and ingenuity stepping up the game.
Yep. I think maybe the writers are interested in showing him transform. Look at TWD. Carol obviously changed dramatically due to the apocalypse. She was an abused wife to begin with. During the flashbacks, Michonne definitely was a character who was shown to be more normal by societal standards prior to the tragedy that struck her.
My point was a transformation can still happen from a zero to hero, that is (more) believable. You don't need to start at sub zero to show a transformation.
The writers feeling the need to do that implies they think their audience is stupid. Even stupid people have pride.
After watching redlettermedia's digital star wars movies reviews (and how George Lucas effed them up) I really noticed RLM's point about protaganists and identifying with the main character/s in this series. To identify with a character you have to feel they are believable.
Local knowledge from New Zealand make's Cliffs maori character unbelievable (to me). The writers aren't New Zealanders.
All good points.

I had my kid watch the RLM Plinkett Reviews of the Star Wars movies (despite the inappropriate-for-kids content) because it did the best job I have ever seen of explaining the elements of storytelling. You are right that Travis' personality seems divorced from his heritage. His character is just another assimilated Angelino.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:52 am
by Red Tamarillo
Aren't they awesome reviews on storytelling. I only found them recently.

Re just another assimilated Angelino, I completely agree.
Until someone pointed out his Maori surname and him talking in an interview about being a Maori character I thought he'd been cast as Hispanic (and found that racist- that they really couldn't find a good Hispanic actor, come on).
What I'm saying is the scriptwriters have done such a good job of Starbucks-ing his character that I didn't know he was meant to be Maori.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:06 am
by wee drop o' bush
Cliff Curtis looks unmistakably Māori though, ok I'm prone to watching Rugby Union matches with Ireland vs the All Blacks. But I agree that so far Travis does not overtly resemble anything other than an Angelino and I'm left wondering if Travis grew up in the U.S. or N.Z.?

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:05 am
by majorhavoc
Red Tamarillo wrote: Re just another assimilated Angelino, I completely agree.
Until someone pointed out his Maori surname and him talking in an interview about being a Maori character I thought he'd been cast as Hispanic (and found that racist- that they really couldn't find a good Hispanic actor, come on).
What I'm saying is the scriptwriters have done such a good job of Starbucks-ing his character that I didn't know he was meant to be Maori.
Pretty much my reaction as well. Except for the racist part. They simply liked the actor. He looks vaguely Hispanic, even though he happens to be Maori. I really think that's what the show's producers were going for, a multi-cultural cast populated with character archetypes the general viewing audience would expect to see in Los Angeles. I get the sense that it's the actor putting the Maori spin on what the writers initially envisioned as a simply a hispanic stepfather. Either way, it's all good.

Also agree with you and Raistlin that Travis' character arc will likely follow the classic Walking Dead tradition of transformation from civilized, even pacifist refugee to hard core survivor who, should the need arise, will quickly visit violence upon the both the dead and the living.

This show, set in a sprawling metropolis during the first days of the outbreak, appears to be focusing on the deconstruction of humanity writ large. I expect the individual character's psyches to follow suit.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:51 am
by DFWMTX
MacWa77ace wrote:I'm hoping the razors show up again, one possibly in the hands of the addict/hustler Nick who was eyeballing 'em and may have palmed it.
It wasn't Nick eye-balling the razor, it was Travis' son Chris. Salazar pretty much killed that opportunity though. If the razor is going to show up again, it'll be in Salazar's hands
And am thinking Salazar will end up with a nicely stocked neighbor's pickup, weapons and all.
Well, he did say the good people die first.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:19 am
by Asymetryczna
Wee,

I too am a union fan and former player and coach. All of the positions are good and nice and worthy of love but I prefer loose-head, lock, and especially back row. All of the numbers in this world are good numbers and worthy of mention anywhere, but I mostly wore 8. Due to the rules of this forum, I will not mention nations or nationalities or “who had the better score” or “descriptions that may imply a competitive edge.” What’s more, I am doing my best to assimilate so I will also do my best not to categorize or classify or sort, assort, identify, rank, class, group, tab, button down or pigeonhole anyone except by species, which keeps it fairly broad and should not be offensive to anyone.

In November last year, I was present to watch a sports entity of humans chant “Ka Mate, Ka Mate” before playing on a rainy pitch against another sports entity wearing a white shirt with a red rose. (All colors and flowers and plants are good and nice and worthy of love). Members of a species can make any sounds they want; this is the sound I heard. When it was over, one of the entities of humans had 3 more points than the other group. I know deep down that this is not fair but I had to add a bit of specificity. These things take place all over the world but I was at a place that I will not name because it has a story behind it that could be taken by some as offensive, having been so named through governance by a ruling body. I will allow that it rhymes with “stickenstam.” All words compiled and often used along with music are good and nice and worth of love but on this date I was present and sang "swing low sweet chariot."

All of the sports entities of the world are good and nice and worthy of love. I have stronger feelings for these [ number > 1 but < 3] because of back row play and this is why I attended. I hope to be at [ rhymes with bluecastle] to see them on the pitch with humans that travelled from smaller portions of land in an ocean that is not the Atlantic or Indian, Southern or Arctic. All of the Earth’s oceans are good and nice and worthy of love, and it would probably be appropriate to add that these smaller portions of land were once referred to as the Friendly Islands. I do not think that will offend any species. This event is on 10 October and I add this only because it is specified in my plans, not because I think that one month is better than another or that any particular season of the year should be regarded as better than or worse than another.

Some of our species like to talk about sport entities and best ever games and such but I try to refrain from emphasizing any particular person or entity or situations where one number is compared to another at the end of a competition. All of the human species are deserving of a trophy. Some of our species like to remember where they were when a favorite event took place but I try to refrain because of implied favoritism or bias. Wee bit o’, because of your listed location on the Earth, I will share that older members of my clan once resided not so far from yours. And I remember where I was (all places are good) on 27May95 (all dates are good dates) when Gary Halpin extended a finger from each hand (all our fingers are good and nice and worthy of love) to salute another sports entity representing a place and people that one of the cast members of Fear the Walking Dead may also hail from…

Every event is good and should not be valued as better or more, worse or lesser.

I chose this one event because my clan is much like the clan that Mr. Halpin and the clan that the character representing Travis represents. We are survivors and all survivors have one trait in common.

We are defiant.

TRAVIS WILL RISE.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:22 am
by DFWMTX
hope so. It always feels a bit weird when you watch the protagonist of a story die.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:26 am
by wee drop o' bush
DFWMTX wrote:hope so. It always feels a bit weird when you watch the protagonist of a story die.
Yeah :oh:

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:28 am
by wee drop o' bush
Asymetryczna I do think Travis will step up to the mark, just like the All Blacks probably will during this World Cup :lol:

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:40 am
by DFWMTX
Did anyone notice if Travis & family hung onto the shotgun, or was it Salazar?

Props on Madison for saying the Salazars and Ortiz were part of their household when the military asked.

Here's a graphic on how to read those symbols the military guy was spraying on the house.
Image

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:50 am
by RickOShea
DFWMTX wrote:
Props on Madison for saying the Salazars and Ortiz were part of their household when the military asked.
That was Travis who told the soldier that there were nine people in the house and then named them all......while Madison followed the other two soldiers into the backyard and asked about what happened to Patrick.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:35 pm
by DFWMTX
My mistake. Still, props for including them on the house roster.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:46 pm
by RickOShea
Welp, if anyone sorely needs some "props" at the moment it would be Travis......especially after the grief he's getting for not conforming to the cultural stereotype. :clownshoes:

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:02 pm
by DFWMTX
I guess some people think anyone described as Maori should automatically have facial tattoos and a war club stashed somewhere in the house in case of burglars or zombies.

(I really need to sit down and watch "The Dead Lands")

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:24 pm
by MacWa77ace
MacAttack wrote: ...
You seriously think that with 20 million people driving out of LA the cops and especially the solders are going to be checking IDs and vehicle registrations?
...
Yeah that may be a moot point.

Image

I do think that the government knows more than the citizens at this point and if its an epidemic they may quarantine areas with road blocks etc.

Image

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:38 pm
by jor-el
When Travis puts on his war face:

Image

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:19 pm
by DFWMTX
Plus I get the idea that some routes that use surface streets/side streets/don't use the freeway go through areas that may be no-go areas in regular times.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:06 pm
by raistlin
Red Tamarillo wrote:
raistlin wrote: Yep. I think maybe the writers are interested in showing him transform. Look at TWD. Carol obviously changed dramatically due to the apocalypse. She was an abused wife to begin with. During the flashbacks, Michonne definitely was a character who was shown to be more normal by societal standards prior to the tragedy that struck her.
My point was a transformation can still happen from a zero to hero, that is (more) believable. You don't need to start at sub zero to show a transformation.
The writers feeling the need to do that implies they think their audience is stupid. Even stupid people have pride.

A civilian with a baseball bat or butcher knife vs a zombie breaking into their house can at this stage of the story be scripted to not be 100% effective and that tells us where they are in the story, but also gives them some brain.

After watching redlettermedia's digital star wars movies reviews (and how George Lucas effed them up) I really noticed RLM's point about protaganists and identifying with the main character/s in this series. To identify with a character you have to feel they are believable.
Local knowledge from New Zealand make's Cliffs maori character unbelievable (to me). The writers aren't New Zealanders.

And like I said the effective guy with the shotgun has shown he's a hero (fierce, focused, desensitised and prepared to act), but then does nothing about gathering weapons/supplies to protect his family- unbelievable again. He transforms backwards.
I'm not certain, but I think you just called me stupid because I think Travis's character is fine as depicted at the moment ;) (I reserve the right to wait on judgement on Travis's heritage)

Note that building identity with a protagonist is not the only--nor necessarily most effective--story telling technique. Creating tension in the audience is an important one, and this can happen when the audience does not like characters or what they do. Tension can be built through plot as well. Now tension has to eventually be resolved, but if we know anything about Kirkman from TWD, he loves to drag things out slowly sometimes. It's not out of character of the writer (lol)

Also, keep in mind how protagonists were "grown" through the story telling in TWD. Rick was obviously handed to the audience on a silver platter as a sheriff's deputy. But consider Daryl? He was his brother's lackey, and Merle was not a likable character. Daryl had to come out from under his brother's shadow--and indeed open up to the audience--to become the popular character that he did later in the series. Now he has a huge fan base.

Finally, I find this fixation on Travis's flaws interesting because Madison seems to me to be the primary protagonist at this point. Who knows who else will transform to become another by being shaped upon the anvil of the apocalypse? Travis might be dead in few episodes. (lol)

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:15 pm
by raistlin
majorhavoc wrote:
Red Tamarillo wrote:Also agree with you and Raistlin that Travis' character arc will likely follow the classic Walking Dead tradition of transformation from civilized, even pacifist refugee to hard core survivor who, should the need arise, will quickly visit violence upon the both the dead and the living.

This show, set in a sprawling metropolis during the first days of the outbreak, appears to be focusing on the deconstruction of humanity writ large. I expect the individual character's psyches to follow suit.
That's a good way to describe that. That transformation is what will make the show more meaningful than if it was just about survivor types and how they battled zombies, collected supplies, and survived.

I wonder if Travis will survive 30 days into the apocalypse? I am convinced that Kim Dickens was probably hired to be the lead. I think some of her immediate family has to die as part of whatever her transformation involves. TWD hasn't hesitated to kill of main characters.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:51 pm
by CarolinaPeach
Hmm, Madison as the main character? I'll allow that but it would be more enjoyable for me to see both her and Travis rising to the challenge being an effective team ( :awesome: ) and pulling everyone together. I'm sure there is a lot more coming that will bring out the grit in both of them.

The dynamics with the ex-wife being in the group might cause issues but that may be handled with an unfortunate event and her subsequent death that will cause even more tension between Chris and his dad.

Peach

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:27 am
by BadLands_Shooter
The gun doesn't care how you feel about it, Travis.

Re: Fear The Walking Dead

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:54 am
by raistlin
CarolinaPeach wrote:Hmm, Madison as the main character? I'll allow that but it would be more enjoyable for me to see both her and Travis rising to the challenge being an effective team ( :awesome: ) and pulling everyone together. I'm sure there is a lot more coming that will bring out the grit in both of them.

The dynamics with the ex-wife being in the group might cause issues but that may be handled with an unfortunate event and her subsequent death that will cause even more tension between Chris and his dad.

Peach
Might not be good to kill her off. Liza is a nurse. She might be more useful to the "team" over the long run than Travis, whose main demonstrated "skill" so far has been pickup truck driving. (lol)