Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

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ODA 226
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Re: Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

Post by ODA 226 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:44 pm

Aikibiker wrote:
Gingerbread Man wrote:There is no "team" in "private military contractors".

Which is what it is.
Absolute bullshit is spewing from your keyboard man, you may want to look into that.
I agree with Aikibiker. Some of the best trained and reliable guys I've ever met were PMC's that worked with me. Loyal to the end.
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Re: Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

Post by Apathy » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:39 pm

ODA 226 wrote:
Apathy wrote:
. He ran away from his vehicle 14 seconds into the contact, leaving 2 comrades (one critically wounded) exposed to enemy fire. (NOT in the vehicle. Thanks for the correction. It's been 9 years since this incident occurred.)
Wait, I thought that you should move to cover as soon as possible. Aren't you? I am not trying to defend anyone, but I after reading the reports I think it seemed like the best thing to do. Never been in that kind of situation, and hopefully never will be. But It has been drilled into most Preppers heads that you should get behind cover as soon as possible.
Apathy, I never called him a coward. I did state that his actions caused the vehicle to stall. As a driver on a PSD, your primary job is to DRIVE the vehicle out of the kill zone, NOT to return fire and certainly NOT to jump out of the vehicle immediately upon taking fire. Doing so practically GUARANTEES that you'll never get out of the kill zone.

What is your background? Are you ex-military? Have you ever been on a PSD team?
Never been in that kind of situation,
I guess you didn't look too hard at that statement. But no. Never had any experience doing anything like that.


You never said the word coward, but if you would re read my last post I said
I don't think the title of "runaway Yeager is particularly deserved as it implies his actions were cowardly.
Can't you see that giving a guy the name "runaway Yeager" is the same as calling someone a coward? Why not "can't drive a stick shift Yeager"? Or "Didn't do his job right Yeager"?

I understand that Yeager not moving the car made the problem much worse. But I don't think we should give him any harder of a time than the pilots who screwed up Operation Eagle claw.

I have absolutely no background in combat, or anything neat. But I do go climbing with my friends a lot. If one of my friends made a mistake that got me killed, I wouldn't want anyone giving him the name "drop the rope Kasey" or "let him fall Hermanson" I would want him to move on with his life. And if he got really good at climbing I would not mind him starting a climbing school. If he felt he had the best school, I would not mind him advertising it as such. I haven't read anything from the people who were there that day that was overly critical of Yeager, it seems that the people who weren't there are the ones giving him the hardest time about it.


By the way, I think I used to live by you. I would drive through Etzenricht every week.
Liebe läßt sich suchen, finden,
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Re: Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

Post by woodsghost » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:00 pm

This is 20/20 hindsight, but the armored vehicle did actually get killed (vehicle #2). I believe the ERSM AAR said it took rounds to the transmission. So even if Yeager had got his vehicle moving and kept moving he would have been leaving 5 comrades behind. Otherwise, I guess he would have to follow whatever SOP was for 1 vehicle in the convoy going down while the rest were operational.

As it was, his mistake meant everyone stayed together and were able to support each other through the ambush. For better or for worse.

But I have a hard time judging others with 20/20 hindsight. If he remained in the ditch for 3 minuets after the shooting stopped, well, that leaves more room for judgement. I guess I just can't claim to have the background and skills necessary to pass judgement in this case.
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Re: Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

Post by Apathy » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:08 pm

This is 20/20 hindsight, but the armored vehicle did actually get killed (vehicle #2). I believe the ERSM AAR said it took rounds to the transmission. So even if Yeager had got his vehicle moving and kept moving he would have been leaving 5 comrades behind. Otherwise, I guess he would have to follow whatever SOP was for 1 vehicle in the convoy going down while the rest were operational.
If that is true, that is an important tidbit that should not be left out of the saga.

Source?
But I have a hard time judging others with 20/20 hindsight. If he remained in the ditch for 3 minuets after the shooting stopped, well, that leaves more room for judgement. I guess I just can't claim to have the background and skills necessary to pass judgement in this case.
I was given a ranger handbook recently, in it they talk a bunch about security elements. Is it possible that Yeager was staying in his firing position as some kind of security?
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Re: Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

Post by woodsghost » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:50 pm

Apathy wrote:
If that is true, that is an important tidbit that should not be left out of the saga.

Source?
See this:
woodsghost wrote: I believe the ERSM AAR said it took rounds to the transmission.
I should re-read the ERSM AAR just to be sure. I know both Yeager's account and the ERSM account mention the second vehicle failing. My memory says the ERSM account said it was the transmission that took rounds. Yeager's account only mentions the vehicle pooped out trying to move.

EDIT:
ERSM AAR wrote: Concurrently vehicle two, the armored sedan attempted to first maneuver to its front in
order to provide cover to vehicle one. Simon Merry, driver of vehicle two, reported that
the car was unresponsive as it had suffered damage during the initial burst of GPMG fire
which caused catastrophic damage to the transmission.
(Pg 4)

http://mercenarymum.com/wp-content/uplo ... Report.pdf
Apathy wrote: I was given a ranger handbook recently, in it they talk a bunch about security elements. Is it possible that Yeager was staying in his firing position as some kind of security?
Yeager's account says that is exactly what he was trying to do. He says he was trying to watch the rear while the others were handling the front. On the surface, this seems pretty smart. Urban environments are 360 degree battlefields. Both horizontally and vertically. The problem here is that if you were going to run away, or stay away from bullets, the rear is a great place to be while others do the fighting.

If BGs had popped out trying to hit from the rear and he had engaged them, it would be clear his actions were smart or necessary. With no BGs popping up on the rear, it is less clear what his motivations were, even if his stated motivations seem smart.... to me.

The part where he stayed in a ditch for 3 minuets after the enemy ceased firing comes from ODA 226. I have no information to support or refute. There are any number of hypothetical reasons this could have been good or bad:

1) Why leave cover when the BGs could start shooting as soon as the second element sets up? Or maybe the vehicle(s) that ran off is/are just moving to an alternate location?
2) Why move? The medics are taking care of the wounded. What good am I going to do anyone? Might as well keep an eye out.
3) I could maybe drive the wounded out, but there are coalition forces who are still manning that roadblock (clearing debris, one of the reasons for this event in the first place) and still have that predilection for shooting cars which get too close. I might as well sit tight till they arrive on scene and give us clearance to get to the hospital or better yet, call a helicopter for us.
4) I am really freaked out right now, trying to maintain a grip on reality, and not interested in attracting bullets.
5) I just passed out from fear and now I came to and better get moving before someone realizes what I did.

I don't have a clue what was going through his head, except what he wrote. Humans have a tendency to either cast their actions in the best possible light, or simply mis-remember things. So first hand accounts are not the most reliable. In fact, they tend to be very unreliable. In this case these are the only accounts I could find during my search. I could maybe search again some time and see if there are other accounts. But basically, there is a limit to how much we can trust his accounts.

To be clear, I am not trying to paint him as a hero or villain. I am simply pointing out shades of grey in what many of us are treating as a black and white situation.
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*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

Post by ODA 226 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:25 am

Apathy wrote:
I was given a ranger handbook recently, in it they talk a bunch about security elements. Is it possible that Yeager was staying in his firing position as some kind of security?
Nope.
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Re: Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

Post by Aikibiker » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:14 am

I think it is more likely it was Yeager's first big boy gunfight (war is different from the LEO shootings he may or may not have been involved with before becoming a contractor in Iraq) and he fucked up. It happens and it really sucks people got killed in that contact. However while his actions did not help the situation I am not convinced they contributed to any deaths. After all it was impossible for the team to get out of the ambush zone due to traffic behind them and US military in front. I haven't traveled Route Irish as much as some folks here, but I vaguely remember Jersey Barriers or similar on most of the route that would have kept their vehicles from making a uturn and goin gout using the oncoming traffic lanes.
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Re: Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

Post by Aikibiker » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:29 am

After rewatching the ambush it seems Yeager was not that familiar with small unit tactics (not surprising for a cop) and with only the minimal training/practice he would have gotten with ER he was moving to fast. Seems like he thought his part was to fire a couple rounds and then move. He did not know that prior to moving he should be communicating with his team to ensure the enemy was properly suppressed and everyone was ready for the movement to take place. Getting some feed back from the TL about where to move to would have been a pretty smart idea too. Easy mistake for a rookie to make.

All though I will admit that one of the random thoughts that ran through my mind the first time I was anywhere near explosions and gunfire was; "Please don't let me fuck up like Yeager". And that was only observing an attack on an IP station from a guard tower.
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Yes a Spartan hoplite trained for battle since he could walk, backed by 299 other Spartans, and lead by a military genius can hold off any number of zombies armed with spear, shield, and sword. However your couch-potato, asthmatic, gets in a car to drive to the corner store lazy ass can't. Deal with it.

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Re: Daylight's End zombie move. Releasing....????

Post by Stercutus » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:05 am

Ah so as it turns out the movie has been out a while and is now available on Amazon Prime. The guy they were bitching about dies an ignoble death in the first ten minutes of the movie.

The plot is a bunch of cops, a few commando types and criminals are bunkered down in a police station in the Dallas ZPAW. The Zombies are more like We are Legend Type Zombie/ Vampires. The group is trying to escape to Mexico.

Johnny Strong and Lance Henrickson are the protagonists and turn in a decent performance each. Most of the rest of the cast is filler for Zombie Chow. As soon as you start to get to know them they get eaten.

The few gun fight scenes in the movie are for the most part pretty good. They have the usual unlimited ammo power up and the concealment is often cover factor working for them but they are much better than most low budget action flicks. Also a respectable array of weaponry is employed that is appropriate for the Texas ZPAW environment.

Essentially just another Zombie Movie. But better than most low budget offerings.
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