Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Chris@MTCT » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:51 pm

http://s1350.photobucket.com/user/Movem ... t=3&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pics
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by RTF_Squared » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:43 pm

Hey, I spotted a couple of holsters that looked really familiar in there. Can I have permission to repost them for my personal/business use? I can black out faces if needed. The drill with the two folding chairs right together looks freaking intense for both people, but especially for the one getting brass dumped right in their face!
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by DannusMaximus » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:12 am

Good format and good pics! Thanks for posting.
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Watson: "Yes, I thought it as well to take them."
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Chris@MTCT » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:50 am

Ill upload some more as I get them processed.
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Dave_M » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:15 am

New video
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Braxton » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:51 am

Image
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Jeriah wrote: you are NEVER completely certain of any other human being: not your parents, not your brother, not your wife, nobody.
Actually I think under some circumstances people sometimes don't even know themselves, but that's a bit existential for this thread. :lol:

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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Ten Eight » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:36 am

Dave_M wrote:New video

Image
"You don't understand! I coulda' had class. I coulda' been a contender. I coulda' been somebody instead of a bum, which is what I am."

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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Matt E. » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:00 am

Ten 8's post above has prompted a question that I've had for a while. However, I didn't (and still don't) know how to ask and not sound like I'm being a jerk.
I was looking at MilCCopp as an additional option not only because I'm a forum member, but they are a little closer geographically and the price seems to be good. I've read the AARs so I'm tracking (at least as much as I can glean from an AAR) what they are bringing to the party.
I have been fortunate to train with several former and even current members of those units. This doesn't mean that I'm a great or even good shooter. However, I have a pretty good lock on what they teach, why they teach it, and the common threads across the board. I made a comment last year about a particular TTP that was common with all 4 of the training events I had recently attended, two were taught by members of active duty. I was argued with, which was interesting.

My Question- I will only ask that unless you are part of MILCOPP's training staff or have had experience training with the instructors/units members in question, please do not engage as it will cloud the issue.

What does MC teach differently than Pat MacNamarra, Larry Vickers, Mike Pennone, Mid South and the like? I've hit a significant plateau and am in search of training that will take me to the next level.
Thanks in advance.

Mod's/Milcop staff- If you want me to post this is it's own topic, that's fine. It just fell in line with the last post.
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Chris@MTCT » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:32 pm

Matt E. wrote:Ten 8's post above has prompted a question that I've had for a while. However, I didn't (and still don't) know how to ask and not sound like I'm being a jerk.
I was looking at MilCCopp as an additional option not only because I'm a forum member, but they are a little closer geographically and the price seems to be good. I've read the AARs so I'm tracking (at least as much as I can glean from an AAR) what they are bringing to the party.
I have been fortunate to train with several former and even current members of those units. This doesn't mean that I'm a great or even good shooter. However, I have a pretty good lock on what they teach, why they teach it, and the common threads across the board. I made a comment last year about a particular TTP that was common with all 4 of the training events I had recently attended, two were taught by members of active duty. I was argued with, which was interesting.

My Question- I will only ask that unless you are part of MILCOPP's training staff or have had experience training with the instructors/units members in question, please do not engage as it will cloud the issue.

What does MC teach differently than Pat MacNamarra, Larry Vickers, Mike Pennone, Mid South and the like? I've hit a significant plateau and am in search of training that will take me to the next level.
Thanks in advance.

Mod's/Milcop staff- If you want me to post this is it's own topic, that's fine. It just fell in line with the last post.
Ill take a stab at it Matt E.

First of all at no time do we claim to be teaching our students to be Tier One operators ( Thats aimed at 10-8's post)

What we bring to the table is knowledge and training rooted from our various background's ( Marine, Army and LEO) and the training that we all have received from various other sources.

We don't set out to reinvent the wheel as some out there in the training world do, we use standard practical teaching methods and TTP's for 99% of our instruction.

Besides the various backgrounds of each instructor we also offer a great student to teacher ratio which you wont find in a lot of other open enrollment courses.

Being able to constantly watch and evaluate the level at which the students are preforming during various drills and exercise allows us to tailor the course to fit the students.

Most of the time during a block of instruction we offer two, three, or even four ways of accomplishing a certain task then we allow the student to decide which way is best by analyzing the feed back they are getting. Pointing out short comings of one technique or the other along with the strengths of doing it a certain way.

Unless it's for safety reasons your not likely to hear one of us say "You have to do it our way.".
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Dave_M » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:33 pm

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Image
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Vicarious_Lee » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:50 pm

All y'all look Operator As Fuck in the pics.

I imagine the car shoots, room clearing, and team drills shooting over and across one another proceeded at a comfortable and reasonable pace so that everyone was safe and up to speed firing in such close quarters, but.....


Shit looks nerve-wracking when you're in front of your computer in your underwear seeing the snapshots on the Internet as they're happening.

I can see how the baby snake drill was the backbone of the whole weekend.
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by TheLastOne » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:08 am

gravediggerfour wrote:
Matt E. wrote:Ten 8's post above has prompted a question that I've had for a while. However, I didn't (and still don't) know how to ask and not sound like I'm being a jerk.
I was looking at MilCCopp as an additional option not only because I'm a forum member, but they are a little closer geographically and the price seems to be good. I've read the AARs so I'm tracking (at least as much as I can glean from an AAR) what they are bringing to the party.
I have been fortunate to train with several former and even current members of those units. This doesn't mean that I'm a great or even good shooter. However, I have a pretty good lock on what they teach, why they teach it, and the common threads across the board. I made a comment last year about a particular TTP that was common with all 4 of the training events I had recently attended, two were taught by members of active duty. I was argued with, which was interesting.

My Question- I will only ask that unless you are part of MILCOPP's training staff or have had experience training with the instructors/units members in question, please do not engage as it will cloud the issue.

What does MC teach differently than Pat MacNamarra, Larry Vickers, Mike Pennone, Mid South and the like? I've hit a significant plateau and am in search of training that will take me to the next level.
Thanks in advance.

Mod's/Milcop staff- If you want me to post this is it's own topic, that's fine. It just fell in line with the last post.
Ill take a stab at it Matt E.

First of all at no time do we claim to be teaching our students to be Tier One operators ( Thats aimed at 10-8's post)

What we bring to the table is knowledge and training rooted from our various background's ( Marine, Army and LEO) and the training that we all have received from various other sources.

We don't set out to reinvent the wheel as some out there in the training world do, we use standard practical teaching methods and TTP's for 99% of our instruction.

Besides the various backgrounds of each instructor we also offer a great student to teacher ratio which you wont find in a lot of other open enrollment courses.

Being able to constantly watch and evaluate the level at which the students are preforming during various drills and exercise allows us to tailor the course to fit the students.

Most of the time during a block of instruction we offer two, three, or even four ways of accomplishing a certain task then we allow the student to decide which way is best by analyzing the feed back they are getting. Pointing out short comings of one technique or the other along with the strengths of doing it a certain way.

Unless it's for safety reasons your not likely to hear one of us say "You have to do it our way.".
All this, and I'll add it was only $200 a day. I'm sure that will have to change at some point, but this depth of training for that price is another checkmark in the pro column.

E makes a good point. It's good to be a critically thinking student and seek out training that expands your ability and knowledge. There will be a lot of similarities between training companies up to a certain level I think. I don't think it's a bad thing that there are universally accepted ways of being the 'best ways' in most situations (it means to me that somewhere someone already learned shit the hard way for me), and I also like hearing alternatives. Things like class to teacher ratio, personalities, service around the transaction, attention and reaction to student ability etc all then become pretty important to the consumer.

If you get to the point or plateau where all of these trainers and programs seem conventional, you are going to have to look harder for that next level. Since I'm not anywhere near there yet I don't have any advice on that :lol: Or it's time to become an instructor yourself and create that next level :wink:
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by crypto » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:14 am

Vicarious_Lee wrote:All y'all look Operator As Fuck in the pics.

Start working on your beard now.
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Chris@MTCT » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:36 pm

full run of the night shoot house.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNYrocGrIe0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Braxton » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:43 pm

Keep the vids coming!
Image
Jeriah wrote: you are NEVER completely certain of any other human being: not your parents, not your brother, not your wife, nobody.
Actually I think under some circumstances people sometimes don't even know themselves, but that's a bit existential for this thread. :lol:

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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Chris@MTCT » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:49 pm

Well shit I can not get it to link right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nha-5kY ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
sigboy40 wrote: I carry around magical kit faeries that keep all my stuff in place. This way I dont lose anything.
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by DannusMaximus » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:07 pm

crypto wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:All y'all look Operator As Fuck in the pics.
Start working on your beard now.
Or ask to borrow some of Redeyes beard. Dude's got beard enough for four men.
Vicarious_Lee wrote:I imagine the car shoots, room clearing, and team drills shooting over and across one another proceeded at a comfortable and reasonable pace so that everyone was safe and up to speed firing in such close quarters, but.....


Shit looks nerve-wracking when you're in front of your computer in your underwear seeing the snapshots on the Internet as they're happening.

I can see how the baby snake drill was the backbone of the whole weekend.
It was actually kind of remarkable how quickly I got used to having muzzles going off right next to me and how little it seemed weird to have guys moving and shooting all around me. Prior military experience probably helped with this, but it had been a long time since I did anything the equivalent of a military live-fire range.

Dave and GD4 did the crawl, walk, run system of ramping up the shooting and moving, but we ramped up really quickly. A combination of small class size and guys who were obviously comfortable with their skills and safety conscious made it progress really fast. I gelled really well with my partner, but I honestly think I would have felt fine partnering up with anybody in the class. Great group of dudes to train with!
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Watson: "Yes, I thought it as well to take them."
Holmes: "Most certainly! Keep your revolver near you night and day, and never relax your precautions..."

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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Chris@MTCT » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:08 pm

I really wish we had pics and video from day one that way it wouldn't look like we just threw you boys into the close proximity stuff so fast.




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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by doc66 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:05 pm

I was going to PM this to everyone, but that turned into a pain in the ass; those of you who took the class this year, please take the time to write an AAR. We use these as ways to critique our instruction and improve the classes. Don't worry about trying to be cool and such, give us your impressions and what you thought worked and didn't. MilCopp Tactical strives to put together the best class we can, and we want to make the class for you as a student what you want to shoot while giving a challenging and rewarding course.
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Braxton » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:40 pm

working on my aar, Its going to be a bit.. This thing is looking like a novel.
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Jeriah wrote: you are NEVER completely certain of any other human being: not your parents, not your brother, not your wife, nobody.
Actually I think under some circumstances people sometimes don't even know themselves, but that's a bit existential for this thread. :lol:

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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by crypto » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:56 pm

I didn't get to put this in my AAR, but I really appreciated there not being a Top Shot this year or a final assessment drill at the end of class. I don't know about the other guys, but I was running on fumes at the end of the third day, and I'm glad I didn't feel the urge to push hard to win another T-shirt.

Rather, the final 4-man drill in the car required absolute concentration and situational awareness, which I felt was a great note to end the class on.
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by DannusMaximus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:43 pm

doc66 wrote:I was going to PM this to everyone, but that turned into a pain in the ass; those of you who took the class this year, please take the time to write an AAR. We use these as ways to critique our instruction and improve the classes. Don't worry about trying to be cool and such, give us your impressions and what you thought worked and didn't. MilCopp Tactical strives to put together the best class we can, and we want to make the class for you as a student what you want to shoot while giving a challenging and rewarding course.
Who is this guy to demand that we write up an AAR? Does anybody know this dude? I don't remember anybody named 'doc66' even being present at the 2013 Houston, MO class. Seriously, the nerve of some people... 8-)
Holmes: "You have arms, I suppose?
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Holmes: "Most certainly! Keep your revolver near you night and day, and never relax your precautions..."

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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by doc66 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:02 pm

LOL. If we had charged what the class was worth, I would have been there! You can't get that training for $200 bucks a day anywhere else.
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Re: Official MilCopp June 7-9 2013 AAR thread

Post by Braxton » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:52 pm

Not the AAR This class deserves, But the one it needs.


Bar none, this class was the best money I have ever spent on firearms. I acquired skills above and beyond anything that I could have learned on my own. Lots of students have posted the play by play of what happened in class, so I will not do another rundown. What I will talk about, is something that I have run into after class. People that do not understand WHY I chose to train like this.


Lets face it. MilCopp is expensive for many students. Factor in that this was an advanced class that you needed to have training just to show up on day one, and the cost of the training really starts to hit multiple thousands of dollars. This puts it out of range for the every day shooter. The guy that takes his SKS to the range once a month and bench shoots from 25 yards is not going to get anything from this class. The retards that clog up gun boards, sitting behind there computer screaming about how there Mosin is the best thing that was ever made... They are not going to get anything from this class. If you are not willing to make a substantial investment in equipment and time, You will gain NOTHING from this class. But if you are one of the people that has both the means and the drive, you should seriously consider training.

If you can afford it, what is stopping you? If it is some notion that you will never need the training, you are most likely right. But that is an argument for another place. This is ZOMBIE SQUAD. We live to prep and we prep to live. We stock Years of food and water, make plans to BUG out from disasters that are uncommon. This is the worst of the worst case scenario that you will ever be called upon to use this training. But if that need should arrive, You will have it on tap.

But BRAXTON. I am never gonna have to deal with more than one attacker! Its just not gonna happen!



If someone comes into my home, I will just shoot him with my Mosin! I don't have anything that home invaders want! It will just be the one guy right! And bad guys only use crappy HIPOINTS!



You guys where shooting from a car, That is just stupid. I would keep my foot in it and run them over. My car is new, its not gonna crap out, and I would never let myself get boxed in.




OMG why in teh name of god do you guys have on that Gear? Its like full on chest rigs and war belts! What? Where you to scared to join the Army? You are just playing solderer. No Citizen has ever needed that.




That's stupid, I would just leave. I would get in my car and just go.

Image

Well what about all that night shooting you did? What practical use is that? I would never be outside after dark, and its stupid to have a light on your gun.

Really? Its fucking dark half the time. That is a stupid question. You don't even get a video. If you are going to use a gun in self defense, you better be dam sure of what you are shooting. Is that a hardcore ex con? Or Becky sneaking cookies behind moms back at three am? One quick flash is all it takes to find out.


House clearing? You guys think you are the cops? There is no reason you as a civilian would ever need to clear a house.

Good point. I never want to clear a house. But some day you may be forced to. You wake up, and hear strange sounds from your 8 year old daughters room. You hear two men talking. You hear glass breaking. You gonna sit back and call 911? Let the pros deal with that? NO? Well then guess what. You just decided to clear a house. If only you had some training to fall back on.


God, who is that fat fuck in the yellow? Does he not know that he is everything that is wrong with gun owners? He is so fat.. and he looks awful in that war belt. He really thinks that he is gonna use that shit? He needs a salad.

First off, that is what I wear to work every day. I have dozens of those shirts. I don't like getting hit by cars. Also since that is what I have on most of the time, I figured that it what I would train it. Train like you live. I have that exact war belt hanging up, ready to go. I can have it on in a moments notice. It gives me reloads to my primary HD gun and pistol.
Second. Fuck off. You Moms liked me just fine.


What is all this ESU shit? If the SHTF I would load up all my friends, not just one. We would roll in 30 deep! I have over a thousand Facebook friends ! They are hard core! Training with just two man units is unrealistic.

I challenge you to get more than three people to help move a shed on short notice. Real friends that will show up to help are far and few between. And that is with the lights on and no riots. Friends that will show up when the world is ending are fewer still.


In closing to this long rambling bastard of an AAR. There are three kinds of gun owners. Those that can not afford to train, those that can, but for there own reasons choose not to. Then there are those of us that Do have the money, the time, and the desire to learn how to use our tools the best that we can.

I unfortunately have heard lots of people question the NEED to train. I have heard all of the questions posed to me in this AAR. Some online.. some in real life. Most are from people that will never train. People that will sit on the internet, or at the counter at a gunshop and go on for hours about how the M1 is the best thing ever invented. How JOHN MOSES BROWNING was sent the plans of the 1911 by god. Guys that will shoot about a hundred rounds a year, and are more likely to blow there foot off than get a gun into a fight.

I don't even want to train with those people. They can eat all the dicks.

But the guys that honestly are on the fence about it. Men and Women that are serious about protecting themselves and there loved ones. I hope I have influenced there decision.

And that Decision should be Milcopp. You will not get more training for the money.
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Jeriah wrote: you are NEVER completely certain of any other human being: not your parents, not your brother, not your wife, nobody.
Actually I think under some circumstances people sometimes don't even know themselves, but that's a bit existential for this thread. :lol:

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