A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

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A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Dave_M » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:42 am

Saw this on another forum, If you are trained, you will get mad at the guys in the video (who caused their own destruction). If you aren't trained.. well, you should be. I hope that this isn't common practice for counter-Narco's in Columbia--otherwise, they are all screwed.

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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by aus.templar » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:56 am

Wow... Who the fuck is training these guys. I've seen better tactics and procedures from kids playing BF3
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by TDW586 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:04 am

Wow, that was painful.

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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Kutter_0311 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:23 am

1: Oh, hey! Look! Bad guys! Should we get the MG and maybe get it ready to fire?

2: No, they'll just run away. That's what I would do!

1: We need reinforcements! We're surrounded!

2: They're crossing the path! Those bastards are cheating! Ref! Those guys are cheating! Oh, fuck, they killed me...

3: Fuck you guys, I'm hidden. If they see me, they'll shoot at me!

1: Hey, news guy, take #2's rifle and point it over there.

News Guy: Fuck you! Then I'd be a target!

1: Well, throw me his gear then. Maybe if I throw a grenade, it'll scare them away!

(#1 throws a grenade, to no effect, and the BG's return the favor)

1: Oh, look, they have better grenades than us! Well, that seems consistent with their better tactics and training! (BANG!) Fuck, I'm dead...

3: Ha! Looks like I'll get promoted for hiding while everyone else gets killed!

(Rustling in bushes, then gunfire.)

3: AH! THEY'RE SHOOTING ME! DAMNABLE INSTANT KARMA!
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Yeah, this sounds mean, but those guys fight like 12yo airsofters, and bitch like 30-year union laborers.
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Brock Meatstone » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:41 am

Geez... it's no secret I have no mil/police experience but even I was shocked at the sheer incompetence of that squad; they were good as dead when they first laid eyes on the other guys. :(
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by RugbyFire » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:04 am

Dave_M wrote:Saw this on another forum, If you are trained, you will get mad at the guys in the video (who caused their own destruction). If you aren't trained.. well, you should be. I hope that this isn't common practice for counter-Narco's in Columbia--otherwise, they are all screwed.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=197_1362339682" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's going to buzz a lot of thoughts. I'm sure you will respond to the posts. My first understanding of it was... Columbia has nice hills and grass. Then I remembered what the op was looking at. I found a few things that they did wrong; Were not in the right place; Did not conceal the camera right; Used un-crypted radios; Backed themselves in a corner.
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Brock Meatstone » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:20 am

RugbyFire wrote:
Dave_M wrote:Saw this on another forum, If you are trained, you will get mad at the guys in the video (who caused their own destruction). If you aren't trained.. well, you should be. I hope that this isn't common practice for counter-Narco's in Columbia--otherwise, they are all screwed.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=197_1362339682" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's going to buzz a lot of thoughts. I'm sure you will respond to the posts. My first understanding of it was... Columbia has nice hills and grass. Then I remembered what the op was looking at. I found a few things that they did wrong; Were not in the right place; Did not conceal the camera right; Used un-crypted radios; Backed themselves in a corner.
The most glaring thing that jumped out at me was they just sat there. I'm sure there's a ton of other shit I didn't see go wrong, but that just blew me away...
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by williaty » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:28 am

As an utter civilian, can you elucidate for me what they did wrong? The things I caught were that they utterly failed to realize the severity of the situation they were in until far too late which let the bad guys dictate the terms of the fight and they failed to have any sort of unified response where the bad guys would have been facing a unified resistance rather than a bunch of individuals doing stupid things on their own.

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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Sworbeyegib » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:53 am

Just a dumb civy here, but it seems their plan to stay in one spot with minimal cover and not shoot, didn't seem to work.
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Chris@MTCT » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:49 am

Wow..

So I guess the Narco's are paying more for training then the .gov, did they start paying in something other then blow and hookers?

After all I am in the job market.
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Kutter_0311 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:07 am

I'd heard the cartels do some cherry picking of quality .mil personnel. Like, even more aggressively than PMC's did back in the day. Of course, they have small mountains of ill-gotten cash to buy the best troops and gear, and awesome bonus/promotional systems, so I'm surprised they didn't also own the support pilots the gov troops were calling in. Sadly, our own war on drugs is what makes this such a hot market. If we'd legalize and industrialize ourselves, I'm pretty sure we could make a far better product for less. Look at our tobacco and booze industries, for gawd sakes!
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:09 am

Most ineffective use of a belt fed machinegun ever. Really, 3 guys standing up firing off someones shoulder. I laughed when they started firing and they all looked at each other like this is a dumb idea and sucks. Then received fire for their efforts. They get down but do not displace. When they're down and receiving fire they do not respond with the MG. Fail. It's like they started firing the MG, saw the way they were using it wasn't working and thought, didn't work we better leave it alone. They had a few yards of belt, why didn't they open that fucker up and break that ambush. Seems their plan to conserve ammo lead to their demise. Sarge is going to be mad if we shoot up all this ammo, better save it. :|

Hey, people are shooting at us. Let's do nothing about it and talk about our feelings. Why are they discussing the situation with a colonel? Why wasn't the captain getting his troops moving?
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Browning 35 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:11 am

Mostly I was struck by how little they moved to better their firing positions and how little they shot back.

Isn't part of establishing fire superiority...like, umm..actually shooting at the enemy and maneuvering to better their position?

I also counted the shots fired in close proximity to the journalist. Not counting the shots fired by the chopper it was less than 100 vs hundreds of shots fired by the FARC guerrillas. That M60 fired 17 rds when the 3 soldiers were holding it up over the foliage and then two other long bursts later on accompanied by approximately 30 shots around the journalist with what sounded like M4's. One soldier also threw one grenade. They also weren't really moving either. Compare this to how much the guerrillas were firing.

If the machine gun isn't in the best vantage point to actually engage the enemy and you're having to hold it up over the brush in some weird and wonderful way using three guys why not move it to a spot where it is effective?

Also instead of calling the others over to watch in amazement at the guerrillas 150 meters away why not shoot at them, spread out and actually start trying to move towards them or at least get in decent defensive positions?

If 'Group A' outmaneuvers 'Group B' and fires three times as much then 'Group A's' going to kill then enemy and win. Seems like simple math to me. Even at the beginning FARC was shooting enough to make them take cover and make statements like...

'If I move I'll be shot at, so I'm staying here with the machine gun'. Then they don't even move the MG to a position where it would do the most good. A soldier that's scared enough to not even come out of hiding because of the suppressive fire to shoot back is almost as good as inflicting a casualty.

Seems like they were counting on their air support a little too much and they didn't really want to actually kill the enemy because they were scared of getting shot at.

That's how it seemed to me anyway. :Shrug
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by ZH10950 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:53 am

How to get killed in a firefight? Acting like you can't get hurt.

Who trained these guys?! And, why the hell would anyone fire the 60 off someone's back?!?!?!? Who does that?
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by RepoMan73 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:19 pm

ZH10950 wrote:How to get killed in a firefight? Acting like you can't get hurt.

Who trained these guys?! And, why the hell would anyone fire the 60 off someone's back?!?!?!? Who does that?
That's actually in US Army field manuals as a way to use a M-60 against aircraft or other elevated targets. At least it was in the 90s anyway.
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Kutter_0311 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:35 pm

Shoot. Move. Communicate.

They did one of those. Badly.
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by spanningtree » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:40 pm

I found it sad that they had some air support a the beginning that they failed to use well. They kinda lounged around almost expecting the air support to kill all of the baddies or scare them off. Maybe communicate with the support better, pin the baddies down with the MG and act like a team (the support was probably as confused as the ground lot). Meh...

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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Ad'lan » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:51 pm

Those in the know will see what a sorry state they are in when I say my OTC has done better drills than that.
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Browning 35 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:36 pm

RepoMan73 wrote:
ZH10950 wrote:Who trained these guys?! And, why the hell would anyone fire the 60 off someone's back?!?!?!? Who does that?
That's actually in US Army field manuals as a way to use a M-60 against aircraft or other elevated targets. At least it was in the 90s anyway.
Yeah, but check it out. This is a view from where they saw the ten guerrillas.

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Looks like it's on a slight downward slope right?

They go and get the M60 and cut loose a couple bursts and it looks like it's pointed at an elevated position right?

Image

So what were they shooting at? I didn't see any hills in that direction and that's where they're pointed at.

They just trying to make noise or what?

Hoping that the guerrillas will be the equivalent of whatever 'OHMYGAWD...They've got a fucking machinegun, lets get outa here!!!' is in Spanish.

I've seen plenty of pics from WWII to know what they were trying to do.

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It just didn't look like they were accomplishing much.
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It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by ZH10950 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:43 pm

Browning 35 wrote:
RepoMan73 wrote:
ZH10950 wrote:Who trained these guys?! And, why the hell would anyone fire the 60 off someone's back?!?!?!? Who does that?
That's actually in US Army field manuals as a way to use a M-60 against aircraft or other elevated targets. At least it was in the 90s anyway.
Yeah, but check it out. This is a view from where they saw the ten guerrillas.

Image

Looks like it's on a slight downward slope right?

They go and get the M60 and cut loose a couple bursts and it looks like it's pointed at an elevated position right?

Image

So what were they shooting at? I didn't see any hills in that direction and that's where they're pointed at.

They just trying to make noise or what?

Hoping that the guerrillas will be the equivalent of whatever 'OHMYGAWD...They've got a fucking machinegun, lets get outa here!!!' is in Spanish.
In MCT we were taught not to do that.

That was a total mess.
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Browning 35 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:06 pm

ZH10950 wrote:In MCT we were taught not to do that.

That was a total mess.
I'm sure that the Columbian Army is taught all kinds of outdated techniques.

Just saying, I'm betting that's where they got the idea from.
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Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by ZH10950 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:09 pm

Browning 35 wrote:
ZH10950 wrote:In MCT we were taught not to do that.

That was a total mess.
I'm sure that the Columbian Army is taught all kinds of outdated techniques.

Just saying, I'm betting that's where they got the idea from.
And what's with all the standing up and peeking through the brush? It's like they were playing I Spy with My Eye...
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by AKFTW » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:09 pm

The most shocking thing to me was that they didn't move, take cover, or shoot! They were just like "Hey, we're in an ambush. That's cool..."

Seriously- far ambush- get cover, put down a base of fire, and attempt to maneuver your asses out of there. Not sit in the middle of a grassy field and chat with the camera while the enemy gets in a position to wipe you off the face of the earth. I don't think these guys got any training at all to be honest.
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Re: A New How To: Get Killed in a Fire Fight.

Post by Mikeyboy » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:12 pm

Its sad to watch. They are sitting out in the open, in the middle of the clearing, haming it up of the journalist with the camera and wonder why the other guys are shooting from cover.

Even the sergeant, had so-so cover, but decided to stand up. He gets shot at, ducks down and was like "wow" the turns towards the journalist to continue the interview and talk about what his family thinks about what he does. He is just looking at the camera and "Blah, Blah, blah away" not even paying attention to where the shot came from. Even a noob badguy with no military training would realize that I just took a shot at a standing soldier who flopped back down in a lone patch of bushes, would think, " Hey I can hear him still talking. I should signal my buddies to flank these poor putzes

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