Recommend Inexpensive Pistol for Bear

[Blacksmith]

...Shame there isn't a system that lets you effectively use both at the same time.

The buddy system does.

So....exactly how you you carry your buddy when you go hiking? IWB or do you just keep him ready in your hands the whole time?


The buddy system requires at least 2 things to work properly-
1) A buddy, which means your SOL if you've gone hiking or camping solo.
2) That you have both trained together to respond to the threat as a team. Individual training without an equal amount of training as a team won't do you as much good as you might think. This applies to bear attacks as much as it does "tactical" encounters. Thinking otherwise is a good way to be shot by you buddy while you're getting mauled by a bear.

You are over thinking this. You don't have to be faster than the bear you know....

[DJH]

...Shame there isn't a system that lets you effectively use both at the same time.

The buddy system does.

So....exactly how you you carry your buddy when you go hiking? IWB or do you just keep him ready in your hands the whole time?


The buddy system requires at least 2 things to work properly-
1) A buddy, which means your SOL if you've gone hiking or camping solo.
2) That you have both trained together to respond to the threat as a team. Individual training without an equal amount of training as a team won't do you as much good as you might think. This applies to bear attacks as much as it does "tactical" encounters. Thinking otherwise is a good way to be shot by you buddy while you're getting mauled by a bear.

You are over thinking this. You don't have to be faster than the bear you know....

DING.

[Maverick299]

Some people (I may fall into this category on occasion) spend massive amounts of money to shave ounces off their gear when backpacking. Lugging a 12 gauge defeats the purpose of the backcountry camper that doesn't want to go on a forced march up the mountain while humping a 90lb back breaker. The solution:

25.5 ounces of wrist breaking .44 magnum terror! The S&W 329pd, this is on my hip at all times in bear country loaded with Buffalo Bore 255 grain keith style hardcast bullets. Pleasant to shoot? No it's not, but neither is getting eaten by a bear!

[LowKey]

...Shame there isn't a system that lets you effectively use both at the same time.

The buddy system does.

So....exactly how you you carry your buddy when you go hiking? IWB or do you just keep him ready in your hands the whole time?


The buddy system requires at least 2 things to work properly-
1) A buddy, which means your SOL if you've gone hiking or camping solo.
2) That you have both trained together to respond to the threat as a team. Individual training without an equal amount of training as a team won't do you as much good as you might think. This applies to bear attacks as much as it does "tactical" encounters. Thinking otherwise is a good way to be shot by you buddy while you're getting mauled by a bear.

You are over thinking this. You don't have to be faster than the bear you know....

.....you just have to be faster than....

You're an evil man, Blacksmith. I like that about you.

[Paladin1]

Bear spray is consistently advocated by rangers and park employees. They typically know what they're talking about. And, take it for what it's worth, the old dude in Montana on that show Mountain Men seemed fairly content with having bear spray on him. I know it's just a TV show, but he appears to know a thing or two.

Regardless, I still carry a 10mm (with DT hardcasts) when hiking/backpacking for that 0.01% chance I come across a sociopathic black bear (or meth-head).

I suspect this is pretty much the company line. I can't see them recommending park visitors heavily arm themselves.

While nothing is going to be full proof, I think spray has more limitations. High winds, being in tall brush, limited range and just a few of the issues that would prevent me from relying on it as the sole means of defense.

[Rob Van]

On the issue of carrying a long gun while hiking, Kifaru has a solution. Their gunbearer system allows you to carry a long gun at the ready while having both hands free. They make it for pals webbing and for commercial backpacks. It takes a bit of practice to us, just like any other holster or retention device. I own one and have used it while hunting. I have never had to deploy said weapon for bear defense so I cannot fully comment on its effectiveness under stress, but it was designed for backpack hunting and the military by someone who knows their stuff.

It's worth checking out at Kifaru.net it does require you wear a pack with shoulder straps and a seatbelt.
Cheers,
Ron Van.

[LowKey]

On the issue of carrying a long gun while hiking, Kifaru has a solution. Their gunbearer system allows you to carry a long gun at the ready while having both hands free. They make it for pals webbing and for commercial backpacks. It takes a bit of practice to us, just like any other holster or retention device. I own one and have used it while hunting. I have never had to deploy said weapon for bear defense so I cannot fully comment on its effectiveness under stress, but it was designed for backpack hunting and the military by someone who knows their stuff.

It's worth checking out at Kifaru.net it does require you wear a pack with shoulder straps and a seatbelt.
Cheers,
Ron Van.

According to most accounts, if you have a hostile close encounter of the ursine kind in the backwoods there isn't much time to react....bears can move fast.
Hope it's condusive to you deploying the long arm in nano-seconds!

[Doctorr Fabulous]

The Eberlestock Gunslinger system (pack series or modular add-on) is pretty quick.

[smokestack]

im just glad that your taking a gun into bear country, i will never understand the idea of going unarmed....you know,... people are time and time again killed or injured by a bear or big cat because they were only armed with spray or sometimes less...morons. as far as keeping it inexpensive and in my case, ease of carry. a bulldog pug in .44 special, full of Hornady Critical Defense would be better than a stick....

[Kutter_0311]

On the issue of carrying a long gun while hiking, Kifaru has a solution. Their gunbearer system allows you to carry a long gun at the ready while having both hands free. They make it for pals webbing and for commercial backpacks. It takes a bit of practice to us, just like any other holster or retention device.

Actually, there is a device like this in pretty common use with long guns, invented like 300 years ago, and updated as needed.

We call it a sling.

Modern slidey 2-point slings like the Ares, VTAC, and (my fave) VCAS make long arms really easy to drape over yourself and adjust really fast for wear over a ruck. Never put the sling on before the ruck, it will prevent rapid deployment of your long gun.

This boot PFC is doing it WRONG with his M16/M203. Don't worry, he figures it out.

[Rob Van]

We call it a sling.

Modern slidey 2-point slings like the Ares, VTAC, and (my fave) VCAS make long arms really easy to drape over yourself and adjust really fast for wear over a ruck. Never put the sling on before the ruck, it will prevent rapid deployment of your long gun.

This boot PFC is doing it WRONG with his M16/M203. Don't worry, he figures it out.

Thank you for reminding us about that particular piece of historical kit. While the sling has its uses, it is not the easiest way to carry a rifle in many situations. The Kifaru gunbearer adds another tool to the proverbial box to best fit the situation. I use and like the gunbearer when carrying a pack hiking. I also have slings on my rifles for when I'm not carrying a pack.
Choices for all (I'm also a huge fan of Kifaru kit. Their packs are awesome. I currently own 3 and my wife has 2)

Cheers,
Rob V.

[theotherryan]

A shotgun with slugs or 30 caliber rifle is ideal for black bear which is the predominant threat in Idaho. Keep one handy if you can. However they are cumbersome and tend to be left in a car or camp. A shotgun 30 feet away isn't very useful if you need it right now. That is why a pistol is a good thing to have.

A double action .357 mag with good bullets (probably a heavy, fast soft point) is solid medicine for your need. They can be had for $300ish depending if you are picky about brand and model (aside from not buying junk).

[mr.trooper]

I like spray.

Working in corrections, I've been hit with OC streamers and foggers that are orders of magnitude stronger than the kind typically sold in retail stores. It sucks bad.

That said - people that have been hit with the stuff before, and are mentally prepared for exposure, can more or less continue to function; they may not be as dangerous due to the uncontrollable biological effects, but it is not wise at all to count them out of the fight.

Now imagine that you are talking about a 1,000+ pound bear instead of a 200 pound human. Any animal will multiple times the strength of a man will still be many times more dangerous, and that is when you will need a real weapon in your hands.

Carrying a long arm around everywhere sucks. Humans need their hands for things, and even a tactical style sling still gets in a the way when you are trying to do mundane chores. A handgun with some decent power on your hip is a much more practical solution in my opinion.

I've only had one bear encounter, but from what I've experienced with shotguns, handguns, and chemical deterrents, my personal choice would certainly be a handgun and a spray fogger stowed in belt holsters.

[northernxposure]

I've encountered black bears more than a few times. Even had one come up the tree to get a better look at what I was - it received a full 12oz aluminum can to it's head for it's troubles. In almost all the instances I've encountered black bears, they've taken off before I got to them, or took off shortly after a stick was lobbed into their general direction. I've carried a 357M for years around them and never felt worried enough to draw down on one - even the big (350+ pound) ones.

Remember that bear spray is not people spray. It's bad, bad stuff. Also bears have crazy sensitive noses, in the order of 1000x what we have. What do you think lets them smell out that sliver of sugar doughnut you forgot you left in your bag that's been wrapped up inside a tent (why were you eating doughnuts in bed again?) that results in a shredded everything. A blast of "ohmygoshmyfaceismelting" to a nose that's already hyped up usually results in getting me the heck out of here.

Of course, if it doesn't - well... hope for a sense of humor from the FSM.

NXP

[LowKey]

I've encountered black bears more than a few times. Even had one come up the tree to get a better look at what I was - it received a full 12oz aluminum can to it's head for it's troubles. In almost all the instances I've encountered black bears, they've taken off before I got to them, or took off shortly after a stick was lobbed into their general direction. I've carried a 357M for years around them and never felt worried enough to draw down on one - even the big (350+ pound) ones.

Remember that bear spray is not people spray. It's bad, bad stuff. Also bears have crazy sensitive noses, in the order of 1000x what we have. What do you think lets them smell out that sliver of sugar doughnut you forgot you left in your bag that's been wrapped up inside a tent (why were you eating doughnuts in bed again?) that results in a shredded everything. A blast of "ohmygoshmyfaceismelting" to a nose that's already hyped up usually results in getting me the heck out of here.

Of course, if it doesn't - well... hope for a sense of humor from the FSM.

NXP

Good and valid points, but....
For some folks (Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, parts of Washington, ect) there is the issue of running into a brown bear. Yes, black bears are more likely but that's not going to be a comfort to the poor SOB who meets a brown bear while hiking,camping, or hunting. It's probable that the bear spray would do the trick but if I was involved in such an encounter I'd rather have both options.
Also, I seem to recall watching a video made by a hiker that was stalked by a black bear somewhere in the NE. It's been a long while since I saw the video online, but it was shot (very shakily) on digital camera. the hiker had started wading out into a body of water to get away from the bear. which had continued to advance on him through the brush despite the hiker yelling, throwing sticks, rocks, ect. at the bear. Bear spray would have been a real good idea for this but the hiker IIRC hadn't carried any with him (don't be that guy). I bring this up to remind people that it isn't safe to assume that black bears can be driven off easily.

As an added note, before going out into areas where there are bears do a little research into how abundant the bears food supply has been in the area, both at present and (if you're headed out in the early spring) the previous fall. Some bear attacks have been attributed to the bears normal food supply being insufficient...if they didn't feed well and build up ample fat reserves before hibernating they wake up much hungrier than normal and desperate for food, causing them to be more aggressive towards humans than the norm. If the spring food supply is poor the same applies. Poor fall food supply and a poor spring food supply...best bet is don't go in the woods!

[Ryder358]

I don't know if I can, in good conscience, recommend which pistol you should get for a bear.



Man, some of these questions are getting weird

[Rev]

[squinty]

Fact is you gotta two fist it...bear spray on one hip, pistol on the other, arms akimbo waiting to draw down on the ursine foe if he so much as twitches...(Ennio Morricone music)

[Gaston]

Just an anecdote to help you decide.

My local gun shop was run by a guy with two older brothers who went to Alaska hunting every year. The older brothers carried .375 H&H rifles, and Bobby figured that a heavy bullet in .300 WM in his Browning bolt action was good enough.

While he and his guide were following a bear track along a narrow trail in thick alders, apparently they got between the bear and his den, which frightened and enraged the bear. Bobby shot it 15 times with the .300 WM before it went to sleep. Upon skinning, the guide's skinner said that 11 of the hits should have been instantly fatal, and the other four were still solid hits. Bobby skipped the next two years' hunts, and when he returned he was carrying a .378 Weatherby.

Now, that was a brown bear, which is little more than an overgrown grizzly, but it shows you what kind of punishment a bear can take without going down when it's pumping adrenaline. I don't want to face one or those or even a grizzly with only bear spray or a handgun.

Choose wisely, it's your ass-ets.

[RickOShea]

Just an anecdote to help you decide.

My local gun shop was run by a guy with two older brothers who went to Alaska hunting every year. The older brothers carried .375 H&H rifles, and Bobby figured that a heavy bullet in .300 WM in his Browning bolt action was good enough.

While he and his guide were following a bear track along a narrow trail in thick alders, apparently they got between the bear and his den, which frightened and enraged the bear. Bobby shot it 15 times with the .300 WM before it went to sleep. Upon skinning, the guide's skinner said that 11 of the hits should have been instantly fatal, and the other four were still solid hits. Bobby skipped the next two years' hunts, and when he returned he was carrying a .378 Weatherby.

Now, that was a brown bear, which is little more than an overgrown grizzly, but it shows you what kind of punishment a bear can take without going down when it's pumping adrenaline. I don't want to face one or those or even a grizzly with only bear spray or a handgun.

Choose wisely, it's your ass-ets.

Soooo.....Bobby had the time and/or distance to shoot FIFTEEN TIMES (and with a 3 to 4 round capacity in Browning bolt-actions, he had to reload the gun at least three times) ???

I wonder how many "Texas neck shots" that bear had in him?

[PistolPete]

Just an anecdote to help you decide.

My local gun shop was run by a guy with two older brothers who went to Alaska hunting every year. The older brothers carried .375 H&H rifles, and Bobby figured that a heavy bullet in .300 WM in his Browning bolt action was good enough.

While he and his guide were following a bear track along a narrow trail in thick alders, apparently they got between the bear and his den, which frightened and enraged the bear. Bobby shot it 15 times with the .300 WM before it went to sleep. Upon skinning, the guide's skinner said that 11 of the hits should have been instantly fatal, and the other four were still solid hits. Bobby skipped the next two years' hunts, and when he returned he was carrying a .378 Weatherby.

Now, that was a brown bear, which is little more than an overgrown grizzly, but it shows you what kind of punishment a bear can take without going down when it's pumping adrenaline. I don't want to face one or those or even a grizzly with only bear spray or a handgun.

Choose wisely, it's your ass-ets.

Color me skeptical. Perhaps that story has been exaggerated over time.

One suggestion I haven't seen here is the Ruger Blackhawk. If you find one used you can get a solid 44 magnum for less than $400. They hold up to use well, are durable and are pretty affordable. Anything else chambered in 44 magnum is going to be more expensive.

[flsgear]

Draco Pistol, IMO.
Why mess around? It's like 350 dollars, shoots a rifle round on par with a 30-30, and can hold 20-30 rounds. Using a single point sling, it's even relatively easy to shoot (push forward while on the sling).

Load it with some copper jacketed softpoints... then look at this picture:

http://www.alphatrilogy.com/wp-content/uploads/Hunting_Equipment_052707_107.JPG is the link since that's such a titanic picture :/

[quazi]

Maybe a surplus pistol in 7.62x25mm? Bigger, slower bullets are generally preferred, but if you're on a tight budget 7.62 Tok might do.

The problem with the commonly recommended "bear" handguns is that they're expensive, the ammo for them is expensive and they're hard to learn to shoot well. That's why when I'm not carrying my rifle I generally carry bear spray.

My brother on the other hand will not carry bear spray after his experience with it working for the state park. He carries a rifle or shotgun with him all the time. I'm way too lazy for that.

[Gaston]

Color me skeptical. Perhaps that story has been exaggerated over time.

I really doubt it. Bobby wouldn't talk about it, but I talked to both his brothers separately. If it was exaggerated it was carefully planned, because they agreed on detail. Yes, he did reload twice and shot dry three times, he knocked it down several times but it would get up after a brief moment and advance on him again. The guide was carrying a .375 H&H but at his first snap shot his new scope cut and blinded him with blood in one eye, and due to the alders he couldn't get another shot off before it was over. That wasn't Bobby's first rodeo, either, he'd already killed a Kodiak that was in full body mount in his gun shop, plus at least two brown bears. He and his two brothers were prosperous, and they went to Alaska for a "full ticket" hunt almost every year. And, I've shot and varmint hunted with him and he is very good with a rifle, quick and accurate.

Even if it's been embellished by double (which I do very much doubt as it wasn't told to me as "a story", just a rendition as brief as I just related, and only after I pressed the issue of Bobby skipping a year or two hunting Alaska), it gives you an idea of what it takes to stop a big bear when he's not in the mood to stop.