How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by TDW586 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:12 am

I disagree on allowing a search, you can decline politely. Most of the time, if an officer has probable cause for a warrant, he'd just detain (or arrest) you and get the warrant. If they're asking to search something, they're fishing, and you should feel free to politely and reasonably decline consent.

Failing to present ID when asked is another matter, and since it's easy, I highly suggest doing so. The only way presenting ID will get you arrested is if there is a warrant (or an OFA, whatever terms your state uses) for you. If that's the case, it's best to go ahead and get arrested so the matter can be taken care of.
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How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Recon101 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:17 am

TDW586 wrote:I disagree on allowing a search, you can decline politely. Most of the time, if an officer has probable cause for a warrant, he'd just detain (or arrest) you and get the warrant. If they're asking to search something, they're fishing, and you should feel free to politely and reasonably decline consent.

Failing to present ID when asked is another matter, and since it's easy, I highly suggest doing so. The only way presenting ID will get you arrested is if there is a warrant (or an OFA, whatever terms your state uses) for you. If that's the case, it's best to go ahead and get arrested so the matter can be taken care of.
I was merely using the car trunk search as an example of, they think on the opposite end of the spectrum. I wasn't necessarily saying let them do everything they ask. But it could be misconstrued as such a statement. Comply within reason I guess are the better words for that post. If you were presented with a situation of a cop just out looking for a bust politely denying access I agree with.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Tribunal Power » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:02 am

I spent a few years OCing every day in Kentucky. I still OC here in Missouri when I'm camping in the sticks, where legal. Here's my advice:

ALWAYS:
--Be polite and professional, and look polite and professional. If this means leaving behind the Megadeth shirt and buying a polo or button-up, suck it up and enjoy not getting profiled
--Be cooperative, lest you give the officer a real reason to detain you. This means showing the cop your ID, even if not legally required, and even if it irks you. It's worth avoiding trouble, and it's not that bad a compromise.
--Be upfront. If the officer has not seen your weapon (e.g., traffic stop or somesuch) and you're OCing, assume he's going to see it and just tell him you have it, where it is, and that it's loaded. Any attempt to conceal your OC'd weapon is... Well, concealing, and that's trouble if you don't have a permit. CCing laws are often very different than OCing laws, so it's better not to mix the bag unless you really know what you're doing. When OCing,
--Keep your hands on the wheel at all times if pulled over; if you have to make a movement, say so (e.g., "My wallet is in the glove box. I'm going to reach for it with my right hand, okay?"). The cop may think your crazy, but the one time you don't do it is the time you get shot by the jumpy LEO who thinks you were making a move.
--Have a voice recorder discreetly running. Can't stress this enough. Iphone memos work just fine, but a real VR is better (and often smaller). If you get hassled, you need proof.
--Be prepared for all shades of LEO, from the rage-a-holic with an authority complex to the bonehead with something to prove, but never assume anything about the officer you're speaking with. This means, for the love of JMB, KNOW YOUR LAWS, or else you will not know if your rights are being violated.
--Be quick with the question, "Am I being detained?" If the answer is yes, ask what you have done to be detained (and be prepared for a bullshit reason, it happens people). If the answer is no, your next question is "Then may I please go?" to which the cop will either have to say yes, or be a bullheaded clown and say no, clearly detaining you. Remember, BE POLITE and HAVE A VOICE RECORDER.

NEVER:
--Lose your temper. Calm, cool, and collected; that cop needs to think you've got it all together if he's ever going to let go of the feeling that something about you is suspicious.
--Consent to a search. Ever. For any reason. Period. If they're searching your car, either they have a warrant or you're a jackass. They're fishing and you're begging for a nice shiny hook to chew on. If you've followed the other tenets, the cops have no reason to suspect that you've got a dead hooker bleeding through the tarp in your trunk.
--Reach for your weapon, for the love of all that is good and holy. Unless YOU like being... good and hole-y. *rimshot*
--Disagree too fervently with the cop. If the officer says or does something that violates your rights, say so right away calmly and professionally, but if he persists, cooperate. If he demands your weapon, see above point-- DO NOT reach for it. Tell him POLITELY that he has to reach for it himself because you are not about to pull a gun out in front of an officer. I have done this myself, and I can't stress how important it is that you do NOT reach for the weapon yourself. All of this should, naturally, be recorded on your VR.
--Admit to anything. Answer questions when asked, try to be a nice guy, maybe make an innocent little witty quip, but don't offer unnecessary information.

So here's what you do if you're pulled over while OCing. You pull the car to a stop, get your license and registration (and CCW permit if you've got one) ready to hand to the cop, you click on your VR and put it somewhere out of sight/mind (shirt pockets work great). You set your info somewhere in plain sight (I usually put it on my dash above the steering wheel) and you plant your grubby mits at 10 and 2. When the officer approaches, he'll ask for your crap. You say, "I have it right here, but I wanted to let you know in advance that I am legally and openly carrying a firearm. It is loaded, and holstered on my right hip." Let him know you're reaching for your info and hand it to him. From then on out, the ball is in his court, and you've done everything right.

CCing is a whole different ballgame, so don't try to apply these rules, because not all of them translate. But these guidelines have always kept me in the green when dealing with LEOs while I'm OCing. Hope it helps!

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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by TDW586 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:30 am

Good post, Tribunal Power, I agree. You seem to have found a reasonable method of protecting yourself from possible harassment while not going out of your way to make the officer's job harder.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Phoenix David » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:32 am

Recon101 wrote:..snip..
Just comply... If you're a law abiding citizen with nothing criminal to hide your time will go much smoother letting them do their job and move on.
That is a line often used by people that want to give away others Constitutional rights. You really should read the Constitution and understand the concepts behind it and understand your rights.

So where do you draw the line? If the Police show up at your door and ask to search your house will you let them in? If the Police start questioning you about something are you just going to answer?
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by TDW586 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:36 am

Phoenix David wrote:
Recon101 wrote:..snip..
Just comply... If you're a law abiding citizen with nothing criminal to hide your time will go much smoother letting them do their job and move on.
That is a line often used by people that want to give away others Constitutional rights. You really should read the Constitution and understand the concepts behind it and understand your rights.

So where do you draw the line? If the Police show up at your door and ask to search your house will you let them in? If the Police start questioning you about something are you just going to answer?
Well, that's not really an issue of protecting your rights, because we're talking about a consent search. If you consent to it, your rights are not being violated, because you have the option not to. I agree, I would not consent to a search of my vehicle, for the reasons I outlined in my response to that post. But if someone else chooses to consent, they're justified in doing so.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Phoenix David » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:42 am

TDW586 wrote:
Phoenix David wrote:
Recon101 wrote:..snip..
Just comply... If you're a law abiding citizen with nothing criminal to hide your time will go much smoother letting them do their job and move on.
That is a line often used by people that want to give away others Constitutional rights. You really should read the Constitution and understand the concepts behind it and understand your rights.

So where do you draw the line? If the Police show up at your door and ask to search your house will you let them in? If the Police start questioning you about something are you just going to answer?
Well, that's not really an issue of protecting your rights, because we're talking about a consent search. If you consent to it, your rights are not being violated, because you have the option not to. I agree, I would not consent to a search of my vehicle, for the reasons I outlined in my response to that post. But if someone else chooses to consent, they're justified in doing so.
Correct once you give consent all bets are off. I just find it annoying the old line, well if your not hiding anything you should consent.

I will never ever give consent to anything and yet I do nothing illegal, well maybe the occasional traffic infraction but still never ever consent to anything. Oh remember last week when you gave that coworker a ride to 7-11 during lunch, what if he dropped something in your truck and you didn't notice it? Think that only happens in the movies? Your rights are there for a reason, not only to protect the guilty but also the innocent.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by TDW586 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:45 am

No disagreement here, probable cause searches and warrants exist for good reason, and in general provide plenty of room for police to get their job done. It's amazing how often people will consent to searches knowing they've got something illegal in the area to be searched, though.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by JesterODX » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:55 am

Doc Torr wrote: 3. Shouldn't be a normal reaction. Nervous without apparent cause is a definite profile of someone doing something wrong.
People that dont deal with police, often have anxiety dealing with them. First thing that pops in most peoples head is, "Uh oh, what did I do?" A slight nervousness isnt totally out of place. Might be a little irrational but its there for a lot of people, especially if they dont deal with police often or ever.

TDW586 wrote:No disagreement here, probable cause searches and warrants exist for good reason, and in general provide plenty of room for police to get their job done. It's amazing how often people will consent to searches knowing they've got something illegal in the area to be searched, though.
Dumbest thing ever. First thing they taught me at the police department was never admit to anything, because we probably dont have any proof. Never consent to a search if you have something to hide. They're gonna find it. I wonder if its just total ignorance of what an officer can and cant do.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by TDW586 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:26 am

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Some people think that refusing a search gives PC for a search. :lol:

If a person can't be bothered to spend 20 minutes on Google learning what their rights are, I for one am not too concerned about protecting that person's rights.
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How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Spd164 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:54 am

JesterODX wrote: People that dont deal with police, often have anxiety dealing with them. First thing that pops in most peoples head is, "Uh oh, what did I do?" A slight nervousness isnt totally out of place. Might be a little irrational but its there for a lot of people, especially if they dont deal with police often or ever.
Just a quick aside on the nervousness angle; there's a big difference between a person who is nervous because they got pulled over, and a person who is nervous because they have fifteen dead bodies in the trunk. I've used the phrase "move nervous than a reasonable person would be under similar circumstances" to describe the state of some of the (eventually found to be) guilty parties I've dealt with over the years. What I'm saying here is a good cop will account for some level of nervousness on the part of the citizen, but combined with other factors it can be another piece of the puzzle when investigating someone's involvement in a crime.

A little nervousness I can understand, even if I don't appreciate where it comes from (we are just people after all, same reason I never get nervous around celebrities) but shaking uncontrollably, sweating profusely, difficulty breathing, difficulty speaking, stammering, stuttering, all these things can be included in the totality of the circumstances to strengthen my reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot (assuming such activities aren't normal for that person).

I guess I just don't see what all the fuss is about. It's not like there's an Army of cops out there just waiting for you to not pay attention for one second so that they can steal your constitutional rights away. The vast majority of cops are patriotic, hard working, citizens who wouldn't knowingly violate your rights intentionally if someone attempted to force them to. But there seems to be such a large segment of society who view the police as "out to get them" or as jack booted thugs just waiting to pounce on their next victim at the first opportunity. I just hate the "us vs them" mentality because if we all work together and cooperate with one another we may actually be able to make a difference in some of the more depressed communities in the nation, instead of bickering and playing semantics games all day at the internet courthouse.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Gingerbread Man » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:55 am

Tribunal Power wrote:I spent a few years OCing every day in Kentucky. I still OC here in Missouri when I'm camping in the sticks, where legal. Here's my advice:

ALWAYS:
--Be polite and professional, and look polite and professional. If this means leaving behind the Megadeth shirt and buying a polo or button-up, suck it up and enjoy not getting profiled
--Be cooperative, lest you give the officer a real reason to detain you. This means showing the cop your ID, even if not legally required, and even if it irks you. It's worth avoiding trouble, and it's not that bad a compromise.
--Be upfront. If the officer has not seen your weapon (e.g., traffic stop or somesuch) and you're OCing, assume he's going to see it and just tell him you have it, where it is, and that it's loaded. Any attempt to conceal your OC'd weapon is... Well, concealing, and that's trouble if you don't have a permit. CCing laws are often very different than OCing laws, so it's better not to mix the bag unless you really know what you're doing. When OCing,
--Keep your hands on the wheel at all times if pulled over; if you have to make a movement, say so (e.g., "My wallet is in the glove box. I'm going to reach for it with my right hand, okay?"). The cop may think your crazy, but the one time you don't do it is the time you get shot by the jumpy LEO who thinks you were making a move.
--Have a voice recorder discreetly running. Can't stress this enough. Iphone memos work just fine, but a real VR is better (and often smaller). If you get hassled, you need proof.
--Be prepared for all shades of LEO, from the rage-a-holic with an authority complex to the bonehead with something to prove, but never assume anything about the officer you're speaking with. This means, for the love of JMB, KNOW YOUR LAWS, or else you will not know if your rights are being violated.
--Be quick with the question, "Am I being detained?" If the answer is yes, ask what you have done to be detained (and be prepared for a bullshit reason, it happens people). If the answer is no, your next question is "Then may I please go?" to which the cop will either have to say yes, or be a bullheaded clown and say no, clearly detaining you. Remember, BE POLITE and HAVE A VOICE RECORDER.

NEVER:
--Lose your temper. Calm, cool, and collected; that cop needs to think you've got it all together if he's ever going to let go of the feeling that something about you is suspicious.
--Consent to a search. Ever. For any reason. Period. If they're searching your car, either they have a warrant or you're a jackass. They're fishing and you're begging for a nice shiny hook to chew on. If you've followed the other tenets, the cops have no reason to suspect that you've got a dead hooker bleeding through the tarp in your trunk.
--Reach for your weapon, for the love of all that is good and holy. Unless YOU like being... good and hole-y. *rimshot*
--Disagree too fervently with the cop. If the officer says or does something that violates your rights, say so right away calmly and professionally, but if he persists, cooperate. If he demands your weapon, see above point-- DO NOT reach for it. Tell him POLITELY that he has to reach for it himself because you are not about to pull a gun out in front of an officer. I have done this myself, and I can't stress how important it is that you do NOT reach for the weapon yourself. All of this should, naturally, be recorded on your VR.
--Admit to anything. Answer questions when asked, try to be a nice guy, maybe make an innocent little witty quip, but don't offer unnecessary information.

So here's what you do if you're pulled over while OCing. You pull the car to a stop, get your license and registration (and CCW permit if you've got one) ready to hand to the cop, you click on your VR and put it somewhere out of sight/mind (shirt pockets work great). You set your info somewhere in plain sight (I usually put it on my dash above the steering wheel) and you plant your grubby mits at 10 and 2. When the officer approaches, he'll ask for your crap. You say, "I have it right here, but I wanted to let you know in advance that I am legally and openly carrying a firearm. It is loaded, and holstered on my right hip." Let him know you're reaching for your info and hand it to him. From then on out, the ball is in his court, and you've done everything right.

CCing is a whole different ballgame, so don't try to apply these rules, because not all of them translate. But these guidelines have always kept me in the green when dealing with LEOs while I'm OCing. Hope it helps!
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How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Recon101 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:27 pm

Phoenix David wrote:
Recon101 wrote:..snip..
Just comply... If you're a law abiding citizen with nothing criminal to hide your time will go much smoother letting them do their job and move on.
That is a line often used by people that want to give away others Constitutional rights. You really should read the Constitution and understand the concepts behind it and understand your rights.

So where do you draw the line? If the Police show up at your door and ask to search your house will you let them in? If the Police start questioning you about something are you just going to answer?
If you read my post following, the search was an example of, they think on the opposite end of the spectrum. I wasn't saying comply and consent to everything on the planet. Yes, the statement can be misconstrued as such, I understand that.

My following post says to comply within reason is the better statement for that post. And in the event the cops ever showed up at my door step just asking to search probably means they have a reason or suspicion on my dwelling in the first place. Yeah, I'll politely decline, then get served with a warrant to search later on. Yes I have read the constitution and do understand what rights I do and do not have. To further answer, personally I draw the line at searching my person. I will answer questions, show ID, and be respectful. Anything else if they have a good reason to be there and conduct said activity they'll get the warrant.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Phoenix David » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:00 pm

Spd164 wrote:...Snip...

I guess I just don't see what all the fuss is about. It's not like there's an Army of cops out there just waiting for you to not pay attention for one second so that they can steal your constitutional rights away. The vast majority of cops are patriotic, hard working, citizens who wouldn't knowingly violate your rights intentionally if someone attempted to force them to. But there seems to be such a large segment of society who view the police as "out to get them" or as jack booted thugs just waiting to pounce on their next victim at the first opportunity. I just hate the "us vs them" mentality because if we all work together and cooperate with one another we may actually be able to make a difference in some of the more depressed communities in the nation, instead of bickering and playing semantics games all day at the internet courthouse.
Very true, however it's the very very few that do borderline/illegal things that gets all the attention and you have to be ready for. In the internet/YouTube/Twitter/whateverthehellapp age it makes them seem like they are everywhere and the ones you see are so over the top. And there are people out there that just look to provoke the police right off the bat.

Be courteous but also know your rights and when to assert them.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Phoenix David » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:02 pm

Recon101 wrote:
Phoenix David wrote:
Recon101 wrote:..snip..
Just comply... If you're a law abiding citizen with nothing criminal to hide your time will go much smoother letting them do their job and move on.
That is a line often used by people that want to give away others Constitutional rights. You really should read the Constitution and understand the concepts behind it and understand your rights.

So where do you draw the line? If the Police show up at your door and ask to search your house will you let them in? If the Police start questioning you about something are you just going to answer?
If you read my post following, the search was an example of, they think on the opposite end of the spectrum. I wasn't saying comply and consent to everything on the planet. Yes, the statement can be misconstrued as such, I understand that.

My following post says to comply within reason is the better statement for that post. And in the event the cops ever showed up at my door step just asking to search probably means they have a reason or suspicion on my dwelling in the first place. Yeah, I'll politely decline, then get served with a warrant to search later on. Yes I have read the constitution and do understand what rights I do and do not have. To further answer, personally I draw the line at searching my person. I will answer questions, show ID, and be respectful. Anything else if they have a good reason to be there and conduct said activity they'll get the warrant.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Tribunal Power » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:31 pm

Tribunal Power wrote:I spent a few years OCing every day in Kentucky. I still OC here in Missouri when I'm camping in the sticks, where legal. Here's my advice:

ALWAYS:
--Be polite and professional, and look polite and professional. If this means leaving behind the Megadeth shirt and buying a polo or button-up, suck it up and enjoy not getting profiled
--Be cooperative, lest you give the officer a real reason to detain you. This means showing the cop your ID, even if not legally required, and even if it irks you. It's worth avoiding trouble, and it's not that bad a compromise.
--Be upfront. If the officer has not seen your weapon (e.g., traffic stop or somesuch) and you're OCing, assume he's going to see it and just tell him you have it, where it is, and that it's loaded. Any attempt to conceal your OC'd weapon is... Well, concealing, and that's trouble if you don't have a permit. CCing laws are often very different than OCing laws, so it's better not to mix the bag unless you really know what you're doing. When OCing,
--Keep your hands on the wheel at all times if pulled over; if you have to make a movement, say so (e.g., "My wallet is in the glove box. I'm going to reach for it with my right hand, okay?"). The cop may think your crazy, but the one time you don't do it is the time you get shot by the jumpy LEO who thinks you were making a move.
--Have a voice recorder discreetly running. Can't stress this enough. Iphone memos work just fine, but a real VR is better (and often smaller). If you get hassled, you need proof.
--Be prepared for all shades of LEO, from the rage-a-holic with an authority complex to the bonehead with something to prove, but never assume anything about the officer you're speaking with. This means, for the love of JMB, KNOW YOUR LAWS, or else you will not know if your rights are being violated.
--Be quick with the question, "Am I being detained?" If the answer is yes, ask what you have done to be detained (and be prepared for a bullshit reason, it happens people). If the answer is no, your next question is "Then may I please go?" to which the cop will either have to say yes, or be a bullheaded clown and say no, clearly detaining you. Remember, BE POLITE and HAVE A VOICE RECORDER.

NEVER:
--Lose your temper. Calm, cool, and collected; that cop needs to think you've got it all together if he's ever going to let go of the feeling that something about you is suspicious.
--Consent to a search. Ever. For any reason. Period. If they're searching your car, either they have a warrant or you're a jackass. They're fishing and you're begging for a nice shiny hook to chew on. If you've followed the other tenets, the cops have no reason to suspect that you've got a dead hooker bleeding through the tarp in your trunk.
--Reach for your weapon, for the love of all that is good and holy. Unless YOU like being... good and hole-y. *rimshot*
--Disagree too fervently with the cop. If the officer says or does something that violates your rights, say so right away calmly and professionally, but if he persists, cooperate. If he demands your weapon, see above point-- DO NOT reach for it. Tell him POLITELY that he has to reach for it himself because you are not about to pull a gun out in front of an officer. I have done this myself, and I can't stress how important it is that you do NOT reach for the weapon yourself. All of this should, naturally, be recorded on your VR.
--Admit to anything. Answer questions when asked, try to be a nice guy, maybe make an innocent little witty quip, but don't offer unnecessary information.

So here's what you do if you're pulled over while OCing. You pull the car to a stop, get your license and registration (and CCW permit if you've got one) ready to hand to the cop, you click on your VR and put it somewhere out of sight/mind (shirt pockets work great). You set your info somewhere in plain sight (I usually put it on my dash above the steering wheel) and you plant your grubby mits at 10 and 2. When the officer approaches, he'll ask for your crap. You say, "I have it right here, but I wanted to let you know in advance that I am legally and openly carrying a firearm. It is loaded, and holstered on my right hip." Let him know you're reaching for your info and hand it to him. From then on out, the ball is in his court, and you've done everything right.

CCing is a whole different ballgame, so don't try to apply these rules, because not all of them translate. But these guidelines have always kept me in the green when dealing with LEOs while I'm OCing. Hope it helps!
I want to clarify that my post is not meant to make all cops seem like assholes who want to snatch our rights. But this I'd ZS, and we have to be prepared for the worst of the worst. In actuality, if you're getting hassled by LEOs for OCing, it's probably just because they don't know the laws. OCing is atypical in most places.

But, in addition to exercising our rights, OCing should also be used to educate. When you OC, you are working to normalize guns in today's society. That doesn't just mean showing the guy at Walmart that it's legal-- sometimes, cops need that education too, although much more difficult for the OCer. My guidelines will help you deal with the bonehead cops and CYA while you do it, but it will also help you educate in innocently-ignorant LEO who has never encountered OCing before.

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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:40 pm

Rule #1 for Open Carry: If you have a chip on your shoulder or something to prove, don't OC.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Dasho101 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:48 pm

Doc Torr wrote:Rule #1 for Open Carry: If you have a chip on your shoulder or something to prove, don't OC.
well worded doc. ill add rule number two: dont be a dick. (to cops or any one else, you represent gun owners and how u act when OC can affect peoples views of all gun owners positively or negatively depending on how you act.)
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by JesterODX » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:52 am

Spd164 wrote:
But there seems to be such a large segment of society who view the police as "out to get them" or as jack booted thugs just waiting to pounce on their next victim at the first opportunity.
a lot of it is how their raised. I mean as a kid I've heard my dad say see that man over there, he'll come get you if your bad, and point at a police officer. There is a lot of that. So off the get go its engrained in their mind. And that is the ones that were taught to respect authority. Then there are those that just hate the police for what ever reason and teach their kids the same thing. Kids might be good people and so forth, but stuff you pick up at an early age is hard to shake. Its just like racism being passed down to the next generation. You learn what your taught.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Rev » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:45 pm

Is it unusual to refuse searches? I always have. Nothings ever comes of it. I also drive a terrible car and look awful but I can speak perfect American Standard English or in a very refined Appalachian twang if necessary.

In a police stop I sound educated, calm, and very polite. In other words I react to police the same as I do everyone else. The last one to ticket me seemed absolutely relieved at how I treated him.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by SeerSavant » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:03 pm

The general consensus seems to be, be polite, more eloquently stated by others, but I think the reason why the thread continues it that there seems to be a disconnect between LEOs and the general public, with faults able to be laid at both sides feet.


In many ways, simply behaving in a polite and respectful manner will solve a great many of the issues that crop up from any LEO/Civilian meeting...


Perhaps the better question should be more along the lines of how can we repair the vast divide between LEOs and the Public...



It seems to me that LEOs view of their own responsibilities is often reflected or adjusted in their constant interaction with the public... The public being us, so as Open Carry, or members of a organization that can appear to be militant or missleading in any other way, each of us need to behave in a manner that represents the best in us, and if we are having a shitty day and feel like biting the head off of anyone who crosses our path,
Then we should stay the fuck home...
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Vash the Stampede » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:54 pm

I just hate the "us vs them" mentality because if we all work together and cooperate with one another we may actually be able to make a difference in some of the more depressed communities in the nation, instead of bickering and playing semantics games all day at the internet courthouse.
Had a buddy who got hired on at the sheriff's department. First thing his sheriff told him... "My best advice to you, Son, is to go out and get a dozen friends who aren't cops."

Sheriff explained that he had so many personnel that hung out together exclusively that they developed this "us vs. them" mentality, and after awhile, anyone not uniformed and in a cruiser was a perp. He lamented that, as it eventually turned the public perception into a "they are out to get us" situation.... exactly the opposite of the perception he worked years (unsuccessfully) to build with his public.

"Us vs Them" isn't fostered solely in the general public. Sorry to break it to you, officer.

Doc is right as well. If you have a chip on your shoulder or something to prove, don't OC.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Phoenix David » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:25 pm

SeerSavant wrote:...snip.. .


Perhaps the better question should be more along the lines of how can we repair the vast divide between LEOs and the Public...
Demilitarize the police
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by TDW586 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:47 am

Which is a simple answer with extremely complex implications. The "militarization" of modern police forces took place as a result of broad changes in society and law, not as a result of a whim of police departments.

Note that I am not disagreeing with you, I am simply pointing out that accomplishing that goal requires changes beyond the police, changes to the laws they enforce, how they are enforced, and what society expects of police in general.

Any further would be blatantly political, and this thread is already skirting that line, so if anyone would like.clarification, feel free to PM me.

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