How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by huntingohio » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:36 pm

It is also important that you know the laws of your municipality not just the state, for instance my town dosnt allow you to carry a gun within so many feet of the mayors office.

Heres a tip from being pulled over many many times, DON'T be a dick to the police! They poor cat is just doing there job. They most likely dont make a lot of money, and put there life on the line to protect ALL OF US, every single day.

I myself would just say "hi i'm..., i am a CHL holder and am carrying a weapon, anything i can help you with officer?" and attempt to shake their hand.
There usally gonna say well we got a complaint of a guy carrying a gun, at that point inform them that you are doing it legally.
They prolly got a call from the creepy guy or old lady that sits and stares out thier window all day, and most likely not the first time this week.

There gonna ask well why are you carrying a gun. again there just doing thier JOB like you or I do everyday. Try and diffuse the situation with humor, tell em its because the cop wont fit in the holster and they cant be everywhere at one and also its your right your legally allowed to.

If they ask to safety check your gun and they are allowed to LET THEM dont be a dick about it, if by law there not allowed to then just say your legally not obligated and dont feel comforatble with it.
Fact Is most cops I have meant are FOR concealed carry, as they damn well know they can't be everywhere at once and save everyone. I even had a sheriff pull me over for a suspicious vehicle call [drove a flat black sports car with tinted windows, I was asking for it] asked if he could search and I let him after letting him know there was a shotgun in the back and ammo in a bag in the back seat. Then he asked why in the hell i didnt have a concealed weapons permit! I thought he was trying to railroad me, no he meant why the fuck hadnt I gone and got one yet! and gave me the card to a friend of his that teaches the CCW classes. I had to wait 6 months to be age eligeable but i took the class just out of respect and got my CCW.

begin rant...Now on to another thing that I feel very very strongly about... I dont know why in the fuck anyone would OC there weapon! The whole point of carrying a handgun is to keep yourself and others around you safer. If a bad guy sees you carrying a gun on you hip, and your not a cop hes gonna wait till you walk buy shoot you in the back and take your damn gun. That dosnt make you any safer! Your just trying to make a political statement that "hey I'm armed, we are here, get used to it" Now if its at a gun rights gathering, hell yeah I'm all for that several people OC'ing at a gathering makes a statement, walking down the street with a gun on your hip without a badge on you makes you a target of opportunity. If you want to be one of the fucking morons on youtube hassling the cops be my guest, I cant stop you. But know this your actions reflect upon ALL other carriers open or concealed, Giving the police a hard time, scaring people, and generally having a chip on YOUR sholder makes ME look bad and can cause MY rights to be limited, all because you had a statement YOU thought had to be made. If you want to be a responsible armed citizen, carry everyday concealed, respect the law, and if worse comes to worse protect those around you. Thats what your obligated to do, thats what you signed up for when you got the damn liscence... rant over

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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Phoenix David » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:18 pm

huntingohio wrote: begin rant...Now on to another thing that I feel very very strongly about... I dont know why in the fuck anyone would OC there weapon! The whole point of carrying a handgun is to keep yourself and others around you safer. If a bad guy sees you carrying a gun on you hip, and your not a cop hes gonna wait till you walk buy shoot you in the back and take your damn gun.
Can you provide a citation to where this has happened?
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Phoenix David » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:22 pm

huntingohio wrote:....SNIP.....

If you want to be a responsible armed citizen, carry everyday concealed, respect the law, and if worse comes to worse protect those around you. Thats what your obligated to do, thats what you signed up for when you got the damn liscence... rant over
I don't believe I signed up to protect other people and I have no legal obligation to do so.

Just because you don't like OC doesn't mean that someone that does is not a responsible armed citizen.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by huntingohio » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:25 pm

Phoenix David wrote:
huntingohio wrote:....SNIP.....

If you want to be a responsible armed citizen, carry everyday concealed, respect the law, and if worse comes to worse protect those around you. Thats what your obligated to do, thats what you signed up for when you got the damn liscence... rant over
I don't believe I signed up to protect other people and I have no legal obligation to do so.

Just because you don't like OC doesn't mean that someone that does is not a responsible armed citizen.

You want a citation? in a 30 second search I didnt turn up anything yet but will continue looking. However for you viewing pleasure lets show where COPS, the supposed good guys beat the living tar out of and threatened a mans life for having a concealed firearm
http://apocalypsecometh.com/keep-weapons-concealed/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc about 7 mins in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pjXKCKyP44

Now if the guys who are supposed to be protecting us do that to two legal ccw holders, what the hell do you think a person who dont believe they have to go along with the law would do?
Again i"m not against open carry if in the woods, range, a gathering of like minded people suchs as an NRA event, but doing it to make a statement is idiotic imho. Your giving up the one element that gives you an advantage, surprise. Standing there with a criminal unaware you are packing heat makes you look like joe public, having your weapon out in the open makes you look like a threat. Turn your back to him and you go from threat to target.

Now as far as it not being your job to protect those around you, friends, family, or what have you, thats your opinion. If you one of the lone wolf types fine by me.

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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Stercutus » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:53 pm

Phoenix David wrote:
huntingohio wrote: begin rant...Now on to another thing that I feel very very strongly about... I dont know why in the fuck anyone would OC there weapon! The whole point of carrying a handgun is to keep yourself and others around you safer. If a bad guy sees you carrying a gun on you hip, and your not a cop hes gonna wait till you walk buy shoot you in the back and take your damn gun.
Can you provide a citation to where this has happened?
Here is one where the OC guy had his gun grabbed and was shot in the chest by the attacker with it.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news ... r-1510369/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Dasho101 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:19 pm

hunt... begin rant...i open carry, and i only open carry. i have yet to be shot in the back. now its only been 7 or so years seance i started. If some one intends to shoot you and steal what you have they will do it if they see a gun or not. if they dont intend to shoot you they will move along. i have carried in to a drunken party were one of my youth was being held (she wanted to leave the guy she came with dident and when i came to pick her up they dident want to let her go) no one went for my open side arm, no one tried to act tought towards me, and not one of the wanna be thugs there pulled a weapon (even thought i saw a few knives and a one of they guys you could tell was carrying something concealed in the group). I believe the fact they know i would be a hard target was about the only reason i walked in and out of there with out at least one of them trying to kick my ass. so just cause you thank concealed carry is the only way dosent mean it is. so its highly appreciated if you dont make assumptions about people or acts you cant or dont understand. and if any one wants to know about the out come of party, i anonymously called in a noise complaint after i left so i assume it was broken up, the young lady i pulled out has had no further contact with any of the people from the party. now in regards to my actions, i admit it is not the best choice to be made but the youth i work with i treat as i would imagine my own children, and if things started to get out of hand i would have called the police insted of escalating beyond were its was. the only thing i have changed sense hearing about a story were some one had there gun stolen from them and was shot by there own weapon is i use and active retention holder (one of the new 5.11 ones) and still feel perfectly safe carrying as i do.... end rant
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:13 pm

huntingohio wrote:Fudd-like OC hate.
I'm not understanding it. IF Florida had OC, I would OC in Florida. As it is, I OC in NC when I can (not near the base) and have never been threatened. I use a retention holster when carrying open, which prevents people from try the gun-grab. I learned that move from all the police officers who've been OCing for the last few hundred years.

The few interactions I've had with LEOs ranged from "What make model is that?" to "Someone bitched. Can you go in the men's room and conceal it, or do you need to walk it out to your car?" I don't do it to "make a statement." I do it because it's more comfortable, more accessible, and now I look like less of a target to a criminal.

Next: You really want to compare the two beatings you linked (and Blacksmith's one gun grab) against everyone in the US that CC's or OC's every day without being beaten by the police or shot in the back? That's short sighted. Remember that your situation is not our situation, but when strip away the weak 'evil cops' argument, you're left with the age old argument of under-cover vs. force projection.

TL:DR You're more likely to shoot yourself by accident than get beaten up by cops or shot with a grabbed gun. Also: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Dasho101 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:04 am

thank you doc for putting it better than me. what he said times 10
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:21 am

TL:DR You're more likely to shoot yourself by accident than get beaten up by cops or shot with a grabbed gun. Also: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I don't know about that. Some people get beat up by the police quite often. Most never do.
I use a retention holster when carrying open, which prevents people from try the gun-grab.
I OC on occasion where legal. I suffer under no illusion that my holster is magically only operable by me. If you are going to OC you need to practice retention techniques and be extra aware that people might see your weapon as a solution to their problems.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:13 am

Blacksmith wrote:
TL:DR You're more likely to shoot yourself by accident than get beaten up by cops or shot with a grabbed gun. Also: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I don't know about that. Some people get beat up by the police quite often. Most never do.
Good point. That only applies if you're normally a law abiding citizen with a retention holster and some retention training. Cops are also far more likely to be sufferers of the "gun grab" than OCers, based on some preliminary research.
Blacksmith wrote:
I use a retention holster when carrying open, which prevents people from trying the gun-grab.
I OC on occasion where legal. I suffer under no illusion that my holster is magically only operable by me. If you are going to OC you need to practice retention techniques and be extra aware that people might see your weapon as a solution to their problems.
Also well put. I should have caveated with "helps prevent the gun grab, as does the retention training." This is what I get for posting after staying up three hours to watch the UEFA finals.

Overall, the three best take-aways from this thread, IMO:
1. Retention holster+situational awareness+retention training
2.
huntingohio wrote:DON'T be a dick to the police!
3. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by TN-Shooter » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:53 am

OC is for George Zimmermans. If you want to show your gun off on your hip, then go through the police academy. If you practice, you can draw just as fast in your shorts as you can outside. There's really no excuse to OC. Just my opinion.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:10 am

interesting thread, lots of good responses.
I'm saving up for starting my CCL here in NYS, and a part of that is starting to collect the pertinent laws regarding it. I like the suggestion on carrying a "cheat sheet" with those laws on it, I think I'll make one. Currently, OC isn't allowed here 'in public', but for hiking, camping, etc, it's allowed. I beleive that the 'treat them courteously and professionally' advice is about the best there is- treat them as the professionals they are, don't try to come off like you are one, unless of course you happen to BE holding a badge.

In construction, often in places I'm new to, I've always found the easiest way to have the building inspector become a friend is to simply ask them at the start of the job what THEY want to see done, and then DO IT. As a result of this personal policy, I've never failed an inspection, ever. I would think that taking the same approach to an encounter with law enforcement could only have beneficial results. I often have to deal with local PO's at my job, and asking them how they want to handle a situation makes everything go so much smoother. Getting loud and belligerent with them never goes well for the belligerent guy- I've certainly waved 'bye-bye' to enough of them as they go for "the ride", sometimes after THEY called the police in the first place! :clap: :lol:
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Maverick299 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:22 am

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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:28 am

iStandAlone wrote:OC is for George Zimmermans. If you want to show your gun off on your hip, then go through the police academy. If you practice, you can draw just as fast in your shorts as you can outside. There's really no excuse to OC. Just my opinion.
So, the faster draw, increased "I am not a victim" aura, and increased convenience is all a myth, and it's just because we all want to show off? Well thank you for clearing that up for me. Have you ever drawn from concealment? What about while in a car? Sitting in a restaurant?

Can you draw faster from concealment than OC, assuming equal practice time on both?

OT-ish: I'm surprised how many "cowboys not tactical" guys are not fans of OC. Most "cowboys" OC'd daily.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by squinty » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:54 pm

iStandAlone wrote:OC is for George Zimmermans. If you want to show your gun off on your hip, then go through the police academy. If you practice, you can draw just as fast in your shorts as you can outside. There's really no excuse to OC. Just my opinion.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by BattleVersion » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:55 pm

iStandAlone wrote:OC is for George Zimmermans.
I belive he was CC with a permit leading up to the events that made his existance known to you... Squinty beat me.

My employer requires that I wear a tie, dress shirt, slacks. and somtimes I have to go in places I cannot CC.
untucking my shirt and undoing my belt everytime I had to leave my Pistol is a PITA and attention grabbing.
On those days I OC, taking out my gun is much easier and a Visible empty holster is visably empty.
This isn't force projection, it is ease of use for a common every day tool.
The same as the defferent ways I carry a pocket knife or cell phone based on that days requirements.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Dasho101 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:33 pm

iStandAlone wrote:OC is for George Zimmermans. If you want to show your gun off on your hip, then go through the police academy. If you practice, you can draw just as fast in your shorts as you can outside. There's really no excuse to OC. Just my opinion.
you know, assuming that you know why people carry how they carry proly will mean you stand alone. i open carry, not to show of but because real world shows its quicker to draw from open position than concealed. also as has been pointed out, not zimmerman style. but thank you for your opinion it was of little help to the thread.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by huntingohio » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:12 pm

Doc Torr wrote:
iStandAlone wrote:OC is for George Zimmermans. If you want to show your gun off on your hip, then go through the police academy. If you practice, you can draw just as fast in your shorts as you can outside. There's really no excuse to OC. Just my opinion.
So, the faster draw, increased "I am not a victim" aura, and increased convenience is all a myth, and it's just because we all want to show off? Well thank you for clearing that up for me. Have you ever drawn from concealment? What about while in a car? Sitting in a restaurant?

Can you draw faster from concealment than OC, assuming equal practice time on both?

OT-ish: I'm surprised how many "cowboys not tactical" guys are not fans of OC. Most "cowboys" OC'd daily.
You actually just made a statement I can tie in
While you doc might night OC for political reasons way too many people are, making us look like nutters even to me, and I love guns. Go on youtube and watch the OC guys torment and tease the cops, who have a hard enough job already.
Yes I also understand that OC is more confortable, quicker to draw, and generally just better. I like times when im in the woods and I can OC. Your right OC'ing is awesome!
.. to a point
What you have to understand is this isnt the "cowboy days" anymore. People arent used to seeing a guy with a gun on his hip [whos not wearing a uni and badge], walking down the street with his dog, or going to pay for his gas. It makes them panic, the panic makes them call the police and bother them for no good reason what so ever. Now the cops have to do there job, that is keep the peace and check on you wasting there time and ALL of our tax money. While it may be in our homes or friends homes, having guns around isnt as common as having a hammer or ratchet anymore, hell even people having ratchets and hammers isn't all to common anymore. Regaurdless of what you or I think of that [yeah its idiotic I know], we have to take it for what it is, It is what is, maybe not what we want it to be. Events like the zimmerman shooting, fort hood, and columbine being pimped like a 5c hooker by the media do nothing to ease there fears. We have to accept how we are generally viewed, and that is with negativity.

Now as far as bad guys maybe you havent had a problem, and thats a great thing. However your example is lacking, your talking bout a few rowdy teens, I was reffering to real hardened criminals. The kind of guy that has spent 10+ years in the federal pen, has no workable job skills that are legal, and is out on the street with nothing. To those types of guys your nothing but a meal ticket, the free pistol just sweetens the pot. There are more and more of these type of people being created by our federal prison system.

Now if the USA where to change to where guns were accepted, and everyone who had one open carried I'd feel more secure in it. I feel in the pit of my stomach that the day would never come though.

and as far as fudd like being used as an insult.. really? Because i catch, kill and process my own food, I'm some backwoods idiot? Walk a mile in my moccassins before you go judging me. I have lived in Pittsburgh, El paso, and Raliegh. I moved back to the sticks because i much prefer the peace and quiet over highly opinionated, keeping up with the Jonses types that are bred in the smog, noise, and generrally drug infested cess pools. Just because i own more shotguns than I do black guns dosnt make me some bumbling moron. It makes me a person who truly understands that guns are a tools, not a cool toy to show off, and well versed in there many many uses, not just shooting "tactically". I respect you guys for what you do, but its not all that there is. Maybe one day youll break out and realize that.

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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:03 pm

huntingohio wrote:
Something about the image of the gun community that was hard to read and understand.

And

Something about a stupid convict being tougher and smarter than a Marine serving in Afghanistan having to fight insurgents on a regular basis

And

Something defensive about being woodsy
Look, if you really think that having guns hidden away is going to make people certain people change their minds about guns.... I think you know that is not true. People are going to be terrified of what they don't understand. OC can be quite helpful to those that are curious. I occasionally get people that have never held a gun before ask me some polite questions about it. Polite, honest, correct answers can do more to inform people then not doing anything at all.

By your logic women should not wear jewelry or carry purses or even go outside because someone "could" take advantage of them. That is the wrong attitude to take. You train, you prepare, you go out into the world.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by TN-Shooter » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:43 pm

I think I made my statement wrong so let me try again. I have no problem with someone having a gun on there hip. IF they are on there own property, fishing, hunting or camping. But If I was a betting man, based off what I've read. Most people have one on there hip to make a statement only. Yes of course, protection is always reason number1. But to show off and give LEO a hardtime because you want to showcase your 2nd amendment is a little silly to me. The attitude of " I can, so I will" is a little ridiculous. Again, just my opinion.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Grey Mann » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:52 pm

iStandAlone wrote:The attitude of " I can, so I will" is a little ridiculous.
iStandAlone's Sig wrote:where at least I know I'm free.
Anyone see the irony here? (and possibly crossing the politics line? :ohdear: )
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:56 pm

to show off and give LEO a hardtime because you want to showcase your 2nd amendment is a little silly to me.
It is political activism of a sort. Some people are more activist about their rights than others so they go out and do those things. So yeah they are trying to make a statement.
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Einher » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:58 pm

Auslander wrote:
iStandAlone wrote:The attitude of " I can, so I will" is a little ridiculous.
iStandAlone's Sig wrote:where at least I know I'm free.
Anyone see the irony here? (and possibly crossing the politics line? :ohdear: )
His sig contains the lyrics to a song, and I haven't found many posts in this thread devoid of some sort of strong opinion.

I, at least, did not find that comment to be of a particularly political nature or even to be the most potentially inflammatory comment in this thread.
I mean, have you read my sig?
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Re: How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:55 pm

huntingohio wrote: While you doc might night OC for political reasons way too many people are, making us look like nutters even to me, and I love guns. Go on youtube and watch the OC guys torment and tease the cops, who have a hard enough job already.
The vocal hyperminority is usually nuts. I can counter-act their crazy by being a calm, level-headed gentlemen who happens to have a gun on his hip.
What you have to understand is this isnt the "cowboy days" anymore. People arent used to seeing a guy with a gun on his hip I disagree. Depends on the area, but how else will they get used to seeing the gun is if people wear them on the regular.[whos not wearing a uni and badge], walking down the street with his dog, or going to pay for his gas. It makes them panicCITATION REQUIRED, the panic makes them call the policenot usually and bother them for no good reason what so ever. Now the cops have to do there job, that is keep the peace and check on you wasting there time and ALL of our tax money. While it may be in our homes or friends homes, having guns around isnt as common as having a hammer or ratchet anymore, hell even people having ratchets and hammers isn't all to common anymore. Regaurdless of what you or I think of that [yeah its idiotic I know], we have to take it for what it is, It is what is, maybe not what we want it to be. Events like the zimmerman shooting, fort hood, and columbine being pimped like a 5c hooker by the media do nothing to ease there fears. We have to accept how we are generally viewed, and that is with negativity.So openly carrying a gun and being a normal, well adjusted friendly person wouldn't help the public perception, at least in your area?

Now as far as bad guys maybe you havent had a problem, and thats a great thing. However your example is lacking, your talking bout a few rowdy teens, I was reffering to real hardened criminals. The kind of guy that has spent 10+ years in the federal pen, has no workable job skills that are legal, and is out on the street with nothing. To those types of guys your nothing but a meal ticket, the free pistol just sweetens the pot. There are more and more of these type of people being created by our federal prison system. CITATION RQUIRED- show where OCers with rwetention holsters were gun-grabbed and killed. Is this a .5% or less occurence, or does it happen enough that I should worry? $5 says it's more of the latter, and that you're equally likely to get stabbed with your CCW.

:words:

You seem to have some very strong, very wrong perceptions about the public opinion on OC areas, the safety of OCing, and the attitudes of people who own ARs and practice using them, as well as how one goes about changing public awareness. You're saying that I will die because I have a gun exposed, everyone will call the cops on me, and everyone will think I'm crazy. I've not found this to be the case.
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
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