Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by squinty » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:22 am

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu147.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:27 am

I asked him what he needed it for and he said, “To hunt bears.”

I asked him, “And just where do you expect to find a bear around here?”

He just stared at me and said, “In the woods……Duh.”
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by RickOShea » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:30 am

Cool, I have .50 cal. smoke pole around here somewhere.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Red Tamarillo » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:53 pm

I read another Kenneth Anderson book. The Indians (from India), may not have had guns (or be able to afford them, which was probably also a good idea as gun education -don't point them at people's backs when walking in a line, and maintenance would have been lacking), but the govt gave them stacks of Methyl Parathion insecticide.
Which they discovered could be used to poison carcasses (and in laws). Voila no more tigers and panthers, and more inheritance money.

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Red Tamarillo » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:39 pm

This talk of old ball guns reminded me of the Volcano pistol, that used rocket ball ammunition. A rocket ball or two would be able to take out a bear you'd think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Ball" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dang, not even equivalent to .25ACP. You'd have to make the rocket ball longer in the back to pack in more powder.

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by squinty » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:59 pm

Hmmm. Apparently the best round is a .22.
http://www.lohud.com/article/20120701/N ... ck_check=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When Wheeler spotted the bear, he got his .22-caliber rifle and killed the animal with one shot, said his brother-in-law, Chris Dabreau.
Apparently it was a real monster of a bear, too, all of 160 - 175 pounds.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by RickOShea » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:14 pm

squinty wrote:Hmmm. Apparently the best round is a .22.
http://www.lohud.com/article/20120701/N ... ck_check=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When Wheeler spotted the bear, he got his .22-caliber rifle and killed the animal with one shot, said his brother-in-law, Chris Dabreau.
Apparently it was a real monster of a bear, too, all of 160 - 175 pounds.
"Timid creatures of the forest", my ass !!!

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Hoot Harrington » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:42 pm

AKFTW wrote:Haven't fought any bears, but I'd take a good hard look at the Glock 20. 10mm shooting a hot 200gr hard-cast projectile is what I would choose. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=219

Glock 20L for maximum effectiveness and style points 8-)
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As someone who owns and loves a G20L I agree with this. Mine's stainless though.

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Gingerbread Man » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:36 pm

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/0 ... ore-148192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The woods are pretty damn safe. I mean, you can spend every weekend hiking through areas “infested” with dangerous wildlife, and see nothing more than a snowshoe hare or a mule deer. But Lady Luck is a fickle bitch and there’s always at least a miniscule chance you will run into something – or someone – that wants to take a peek inside you. There are as many strategies for deep woods self-protection as there are picnic tables in Yellowstone, so the first order of the day is to know your adversary . . .

This is a discussion about hiking and camping, not hunting. Where you choose to commune with nature defines the short list of bad guys you’ll need to concern yourself with. If you aren’t in the Northern Rockies, things get much easier since you don’t have to worry about grizzly bears or Northwest Canada’s brown bears.

Mountain lions are likewise limited almost exclusively to the western US. Eastern adventurers’ biggest worries are black bears, and to a lesser extent, tasty members of the porcine family. Protecting yourself against an angry pig usually involves trying to steal his bacon to begin with; I’ll leave the mechanics of hog-defense to our Texas boys.

Black bears are the wimps of the woods…usually. Most black bear encounters end with the bear asses-and-elbows. My only blackie encounter occurred in the woods of western Massachusetts in the Deerfield River area. I was lugging a 20 pound camera rig down a two mile forest service road when I rounded the corner and came upon a large sow. I knew she was a sow because of the cute little cub nearby.

My first instinct was to film the encounter; my second was to run like hell. But long ago I learned you never run from a predator and my feet stayed planted. I raised the camera to my shoulder, and started shouting “HEY BEAR” while trying to look as big (and in hindsight, as stupid) as possible. It worked. Mama bear dashed into the woods and I never saw her again.

That doesn’t mean that they’re harmlessm though; far from it. Virtually all black bear attacks are predatory in nature (the exception being sows protecting cubs). Bear experts recommend fighting for your life if you’re attacked by a black bear because it wants to eat you. What’s that? You don’t want to be eaten? Then you need to fight back and on this blog that means bringing firepower to bear.

Now let me contradict myself. Your primary weapon against any bear should be a can of bear spray. Not pepper spray, but the 2% Capsaicin stuff specifically for use on bears. Before you guys get all up in a huff, consider your point of aim on a 200 pound black bear that just put his head down and starts charging you from ten yards.

One second later, at about two yards, he will jump and knock you down. How’s your aim under duress? Will your round be strong enough to penetrate its skull? Can you find a heart shot and will the bear drop before it takes some good-sized chunks out of you? All in a couple of seconds?

With bear spray, you can instantly put a big orange cloud of pain between you and the bear which almost always stops the charge. Any good brand of spray will be most effective between 10-30 feet.Use both hands to hold the can, (the pressure is high and the can kicks up), and you want to aim low so the spray doesn’t go over the bear’s head.

What if that hungry black bear isn’t affected by the spray or what if it’s windy and raining, rendering the spray ineffective? Get your damn gun out. Shoot the bear until it’s no longer a threat.

Now, you’re thinking, what gun is the best for bear defense? Of course, one that will stop a bear in its tracks. A .375 H&H Magnum always at the ready will do the trick, but that’s not very practical on a Sunday hike. Let’s look at what features and functions are important in bear defense.

If you have never seen a real bear up close, it can be hard to convey the power and speed the brutes have, especially grizzly bears. I took my dad to Yellowstone this past week, and we had the extremely rare opportunity to observe a big male grizzly up close. He was on the side of the road, just out of the park, and we watched from the safety of the car while he grazed on the low shrubs.

Without warning, he took several steps toward the car; just a drainage ditch separated us. Fingers went to the power window button. His next move revealed raw speed and power. The bear turned and bolted up the hill, easily covering thirty yards in about three leaps. Imagine you’re in the woods, and that griz is thirty yards away. What firearm can you bring to aim in less than two seconds? Forget long guns; unless it’s an SBR, you won’t have time to swing it around to target.

Who wants to hike and carry a long gun anyway? Sure, if you’re hunting, but on a camp & hike trip it’s going to be a burden. The logical conclusion is a handgun in as big a caliber as you can comfortably manage. Internet Forum concensus seems to hold across the board that nothing less powerful than a .357 Magnum for black bears, and for grizzlies, a .44 Magnum is minimum, with .454 Cassull or .500 S&W recommended if you can handle the large frame. When it comes to Canada’s brown bears, forget it. If you don’t have a big bore rifle, you’re on the menu. Accept it.

Grizzly bears are the assholes of the forest. It’s very rare for them to prey on humans, but most grizzles won’t hesitate to bitch slap you and let you know who’s boss. Their aggressive demeanor is readily apparent in their tactics. Grizzlies will bluff charge, and possibly knock you down, even giving a bite. If you are no longer a threat, the bear will usually leave. But if you act like a scared little animal, it could return and eat you.

Just keep your spray at the ready when the line of sight is limited and you’re in grizzly country. If you do have to shoot, put as many big bullets as you can in the area above the lowered skull and below the big, muscular hump. As a last resort, if the bear is on you, shoot inside the mouth, in the eye if you can get it, or in the chest under the neck. If that’s your only strategy left, at least try not to be under the bear when it dies.

The next consideration to bear is your choice of bear ammunition. There are a few manufacturers that make rounds specifically for bear defense. They’re hard ball and non-expanding so they can punch through 8-12 inches of skin, muscle and fat in order to hit a vital.

Now, we’ve covered everyone’s scary nightmare animal. What about the rest? Wolves, mountain lions, rabid badgers, anything not a bear gets treated like a human, which for me means 20+1 rounds of 9mm Hydra Shok 124 grain in a Beretta 92FS. I will likely never have to shoot anything in the woods, but I know that my handgun and a couple of extra mags makes me a bit more prepared to handle the unexpected. Especially when the unexpected has teeth.

My recommendation for the trail is a three-tier approach. First, bear spray in a holster on your pack’s chest strap, strong-side. Any time DefCon bear ramps up, unholster the can to reduce draw time. The spray is also useful against lesser mammals.

If the spray can isn’t an option due to weather or other circumstances, or if you decide the threat requires lethal force, your favorite pistol open-carried in a retention holster is the way to go. I carry my 92FS at 2 o’clock, secured to my pack’s waist strap. It’s a bit worse for wear after a couple of trail spills, and I’ve only had to draw once, when the stench of cat urine filled the air while we were crossing through a tight spot.

The final line of defense is a large caliber revolver as a backup. Carry options are open, but my preference would be a Ruger Alaskan in a weak-side ankle holster, because if you reach the stage where you will need to draw it, you are going to be in a fetal position anyway, putting it within easy reach.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:51 pm

He had me until:
which for me means 20+1 rounds of 9mm Hydra Shok 124 grain in a Beretta 92FS.
That is when I knew he was not really serious.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Stercutus » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:16 am

Grrrr
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by JeeperCreeper » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:51 am

Stercutus wrote:Grrrr
Hmmm... I think I know what happened here... You've been kicking back some of grampa's cough medicine, and you've gotten sentimental, and decided to take a stroll in the past. Just like texting an old ex, you decided to flirt with a thread gone past, hoping to get that old spark rekindled. I see, I've been there... Allow me to help on the necro-binge before you get desperate and curse out the thread for past bygones because its taken too long for her to respond....

My choice that I use: Ruger Blackhawk with 45LC +P. Feather that single action hammer like a true outlaw gunslinger to drop those teddy bears... And panties... In their tracks.

Other:
Stainless Steel EAA Witness in 10mm with pearl grips for sex appeal and a throwback to the classy days of old. Goes best with a 3 piece suit, not included.

Or:
A nice 6 shot revolver in .44 mag or .454 casull for a more economical revolver that shows you're financially savvy and committed for the long haul.

Maybe:
5 shot Smith in .460 or .500 to show that you take life by the balls and live for the here and now. Carpe Diem, anyone?

Perhaps:
A .357 magnum in either 5, 6, 7, or 8 shot variety, to show that size doesn't matter, but how you use it.

Possibly:
A Glock in 10mm to show you want to be single forever.

Might consider:
One of your 1911s loaded with buffalo bore 45 acp +P loads, to show you like to remain traditional, with a modern twist, all while living risky. Anyone up for some Sinatra/JayZ remixes?

I feel like those are the best game plans to flirt with this thread that got away....
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Stercutus » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:12 am

Ruger Blackhawk with 45LC +P and Stainless Steel EAA Witness in 10mm.

Which one do you use in your strong hand and which one do you use in your weak hand? I am thinking the Blackhawk has to be your strong hand choice.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:15 pm

The answer is apparently birdshot in trusty 12 GA pump.. (Courtesy of Alaska State Senator Shelby Hughes).


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/01/al ... party.html
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by raptor » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:04 pm

Just goes to prove what I have said... The best firearm for any situation is the one you have with you or close at hand. :wink:

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by NT2C » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:36 pm

raptor wrote:Just goes to prove what I have said... The best firearm for any situation is the one you have with you or close at hand. :wink:
Proper shot placement counts much more than caliber. Though for Ursus Arctos Horribilis I think I'd prefer something more than a pistol.

.50 BMG sounds good.

Maybe in an M2HB... 8-)
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by flybynight » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:55 pm

In a PAW that has fallen so much that GRIZZLY bears have migrated to the deep south in such numbers to pose a serious risk to self and family. I don't think the laws concerning concealed carry will be much obeyed or even enforced or noticed. That being said, I would carry a long arm of at least .30 magnum minimum and would probably just carry a carbine in some .40 configuration. Like a marlin lever gun in .45-70 . Or a 12 gauge shooting slugs or cut cartridges. Nice necro. :crazy:
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by raptor » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:14 pm

If I am expecting grizzes I would want a minimum of a .338 magnum in a rifle. I would prefer a larger bore like .375 H&H.

Maybe a .45-70 loaded with the Buffalo Bore "magnum" loading in a quality lever action.

That said they have been killed with a lot less than these including 9mm and even .22 rimfire.

Still yes an M-2HB inside an armoured turret would be my preference if offered.

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:51 pm

Just shot my .45LC Blackhawk about 30 minutes ago. Loaded with Underwood 325 gr +P LFN. It left skin on the Hogue grips from my hand. I flinched so bad. Under pressure or in a hunting situation, I wouldn't trust myself to make a good shot past 10 yards.

I think I'll stick with my XD45 loaded with 255 grain +P hard cast boolits for when I'm in a pinch.



As far as rifle for Grizz, I'd feel OK with a .30-06. I'd feel more OK with a .338 win mag or a .35 whelen.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by brothaman » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:36 am

JeeperCreeper wrote:Just shot my .45LC Blackhawk about 30 minutes ago. Loaded with Underwood 325 gr +P LFN. ...
I read a good article in a Handloader mag there a writer was loading 45 LC for his son's first black bear hunt. He got pass through with 250 gr hard cast at Standard pressures from a 5.5 inch black hawks. Personally, I hate shooting 300 grain mag level loads in my 44 mag SBH. 265s are much more manageable. Why try 250 or 260 soft points at Ruger safe pressures. I bet Grizz would have a hard time with a load like that.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by quazi » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:29 pm

My uncle-in-law was visiting and wanted to go down to one of the fishing holes, but he was concerned about bears and asked my grandfather about a gun.

My grandfather told him, "I used to carry a big rifle when I went fishing, then I changed to carrying a handgun, but now I just carry my pocket knife and if a bear tries to eat me I'm just going to slit my own throat!" :lol:

My grandfather didn't usually take a gun with him when fishing, but I also have a sneaking suspicion that he was trying to get my uncle-in-law either eaten or to slit his own throat. Notice how I keep specifying I'm not actually related to the guy. :lol:

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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by Zimmy » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:54 pm

I always thought the story of Bella Twin and her bear was inspiring......


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/0 ... old-front/
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by minengr » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:14 am

Given current populations and accounting for historic range, I doubt there is much danger in Grizzly's making it to the "deep south" for several decades. While I don't have the exact figures, there were appox 250 in the lower 48 in 1975, there are about 2500 now with the southern most population in Yellowstone. I think it might be awhile before they make it to Alabama and Georgia.

Black bears are another story, but they wouldn't concern me nearly as much.

Best gun or most practical? While not very fancy, a 12ga with slugs will likely be the most readily available. If I had to pick from my current collection either my 45/70 Marlin or my 300 wby. If I had to choose a hand gun I have a pair of 45LC Blackhawks that can be loaded hot, but would prefer a 10mm Glock. There are impressive 45LC loads, but out of a single action they aren't the best to getting a lot of lead down range fast.
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Re: Best Round/ Gun for Ursus Arctos Horribilis

Post by NamelessStain » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:39 am

Just thought this would be pertinent to this thread:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/fr ... of-boulder
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