RANGE REPORT: Kel-Tec PF9 (New in box)

[Ansgar]

I purchased a Kel-Tec PF9 NIB from a LGS for HD and potential CCW if I ever get around to getting it. I took it to the range today with two range buddies. My report follows:

156 rounds fired - 100 Winchester white box, 56 Federal.
Federal Rounds - 7 FTE, 1 Stovepipe, 3 FTF. Failure Rate = 19.642%
Winchester Rounds - 13 FTE, 0 Stovepipes, 4 FTF. Failure Rate = 17.000%
17.949% overall failure rate or 1.256 failures per magazine.

Bodily Harm - Mild skin tearing at base of thumb, nothing out of the ordinary.
Recoil - A little stronger than I initially expected, but not terrible.
Accuracy - ~60% hits on silhouette at 25 yds with sights at factory settings

Review: I will be selling this with haste, but I also believe that this individual unit may not speak for all PF9s.

ETA: Also, the floor plate for the magazine started to slide off around round 135.
So...any recommendations for a 9mm revolver?

[majorhavoc]

So you're saying you like it, then?

Just kidding. Sorry to hear this isn''t working out for you. I've heard good things about the PF9. But if I were in your shoes, I'd be very frustrated at the moment.

I know there is a very active group of PF9 owners on the Kel-tec forums (http://www.thektog.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95). Sounds like you're pretty sour on your PF9 at the moment, but maybe if you posted over there, they could help you.

I know I had some issues with my Palmetto State Armory AR15 build; a vexing tendency to fail to go fully into battery about once every 20 rounds. I stuck with it and it apparently was just a matter of properly breaking in the gun; it's running 100% now. Not saying your experience is directly analogous, but it is possible the PF9 owners group knows something.

[Florida_Tony]

Hated my PF9. Sold it. Had some bad failures with it, and the thing was painful to shoot. Now I'm looking at the S&W Shield in 9mm. Good luck selling the Kel Tec.

[hutchsaiga]

Sorry to hear about your trouble with your PF9.

I have one that is my current CCW which had the same problems as yours at first.

I fixed mine by reprofiling the extracor somewhat and doubling up on extracor springs.( can be seen at www.ktog.org)

I have 600 rounds of wally world federal and 100 rounds of Hornady through it with no problems now.

if you decide not to sell it or have diffuculty, try getting another extractor and spring from kel-tec, replacing the extracor and doubling up on the springs. Many of them shipped with weak springs whcih cause the claw to slide around and off the rim before ejection, and the little extra tension makes them run perfectly


good luck,

owen

[SRO1911]

My wife bought a PF9 for CC, took it to the range and put 3 mags through it - 7 FTF/FTE and a bandage, I then shot another 4-5 mags through it, 8 ftf/fte. It is now looking for a new home and she is carrying one of my 1911's
Was a great concept but they need to refine it a bit.

[yossarian]

So...any recommendations for a 9mm revolver?

Good luck finding one, I don't believe there are any currently in production. Smith&Wesson made the 940, Taurus made the 904, there are a few Ruger Speed Six's in 9mm and Charter had plans for one but as far as I know it never got off the ground*.







(Charter did make a revolver in 9mm Federal which is a rimmed 9mm round)

[squinty]

IDK if quality is any better, but the Ruger LC9 is a close copy of the PF9, I think it may be more reliable.
Check out offerings by Kahr in single stack 9mm, they've been doing pocket 9mm for awhile now. If Kahr diesn't blow your skirt up, try the new M&P Shield. Lot's of options to chose from in single stack compact 9mm these days.

[Ansgar]

Two things:

First: I neglected to mention in my previous haste to post earlier that the magazine also fell out of the well 11 times when firing, which was just embarrassing, and

Second: As far as revolvers go, I just want something that is inexpensive to shoot, but not a .22 (I have heard that .357s can safely fire 9mm and .38spl, but question the reliability of such rumors) as it will be both for extensive range use and HD. I have come to the conclusion that CCW for me is impractical as I am a college student planning to pursue a PhD and eventually become a professor, causing me to be unable to carry most of the day anyway. Even if it became legal/within campus rules, I would still feel wrong carrying on a campus out of respect for the purpose of the institution (I realize opinions vary widely and don't wish to argue, this is just the logic for my decision).

[squinty]

Dupe.

[squinty]

Two things:

First: I neglected to mention in my previous haste to post earlier that the magazine also fell out of the well 11 times when firing, which was just embarrassing, and

Second: As far as revolvers go, I just want something that is inexpensive to shoot, but not a .22 (I have heard that .357s can safely fire 9mm and .38spl, but question the reliability of such rumors) as it will be both for extensive range use and HD. I have come to the conclusion that CCW for me is impractical as I am a college student planning to pursue a PhD and eventually become a professor, causing me to be unable to carry most of the day anyway. Even if it became legal/within campus rules, I would still feel wrong carrying on a campus out of respect for the purpose of the institution (I realize opinions vary widely and don't wish to argue, this is just the logic for my decision).

.357 can, most definitely, fire .38 special or .38 special +P ammunition. That is not a rumor it is a true statement, and .357 owners frequently do load .38 in their revolvers for cheap/low recoil practice. I've done it a lot myself. Sometimes it makes cleaning the chambers a bit difficult, as the shorter .38 deposits carbon inside the front end of the chamber, but that is a minor nuisance.

The revolver would have to have a cylinder change and/or a cutout in the cylinder to accept moon clips, in order to fire 9mm. I don't see any particular point to having a 9mm revolver, unless you wanted ammo commonality with a pistol or PCC.

If you are soured on pocket 9mm pistols and want a revolver, I'd say get a double action Ruger or Smith & Wesson revolver in .357 magnum. No law says you ever have to fire .357 out of it if you don't want to, but it's nice to have the option and I feel (don't know if I'm right or not) that a revolver built to withstand the pressure and recoil of .357 loads will be very durable and last a long long time on a diet of milder shooting .38 special. My preference would be for an all stainless steel frame, but there are scandium, aluminum, and in the case of Ruger, at least one polymer framed pocket revolver that I know of. Lot's of choices. If you aren't interested in CCW then I don't see any reason to go with a pocket size gun for home defense, unless you want a lightweight firearm to wear around the house - which I think is a good idea, but I get made fun of for doing it sometimes. A full size semi auto pistol would be even better - if you aren't planning to conceal, why limit yourself to a pocket pistol like the PF9, or the lower capacity of the revolver?

A quick glance at Gunsamerica shows GP 100 (full size) and SP 101 (snub nose) revolvers in the $400 range. You could do better shopping around I bet.

Someone will come along and tell you a Glock 19 or 26 would serve you better, and they'll have a point.

Kel-Tecs are reputed to have a fairly long "break-in" period before they'll function reliably, and Kel-Tec owners sometimes do a bit of polishing and buffing to speed that process up. The slide bite and the mag spontaneously dropping might be related to your grip, ie letting the pistol flip up in such a way as to put the top of your hand in the path of the slide, or bumping the mag release with one of your digits during recoil. Light pistols in full size calibers can be hard to hold onto. If there is an issue with your grip, that might also account for some of the failures to feed. I don't know if this is the case or not, I don't know your level of proficiency with firearms, nor am I really qualified to diagnose someone else' shooting technique. Just throwing it out there - if you are a shooting pro then disregard my suggestion about grip, if you are new to shooting look for a good coach, it will be worth your while.

I know how you feel, I hate it when a new toy disappoints, so I'm sorry to read about your glum range trip. Maybe the Kel-Tec just doesn't fit. Hope your next time shooting is more fun!

[brothaman]

My PF9 had FTEs on every 3rd pull of the trigger. After about 80-100 rounds (i can't completely remember) all that stopped. It run's like a top now. I shoot at least 20-50 rounds through it every time I the the range. At this point I got a lot on lead through it. My biggest concern with your pistol is the accuracy. I would think one should be able to easily keep all shots in a 12 inch circle at 25 yds with the pistol. I think the longest distance I've shot mine is 10 yards. But at 10 yds I keep it in the red on the "man sized" paper target.

Sorry you got a crappy one. I'd demand a replacement from Kel-Tec. If I had it to do it over,.. I'd get a 32 Kel-Tec for pocket carry. I've heard they're more reliable than the PF-9 out of the box. .... and they are so light. The one I shot was pretty sweet.

Oh,.. on the 9mm in 357 thing. I think 9mm and .357 have some case diameter differences that make it not possible. I can't remember for sure, but I think the 9mm base is bigger than the .357 base. Don't hold me to that. Ruger makes a single action that will convert from 357 to 9mm with a cylinder change. I need one in stainless.

Firing 38 through a .357 makes cleaning a bitch if you do it a lot. You'll get a ring inside the cylinder at the end of the .38 case which will make 357 cases hard to load and stick on ejection. The more you shoot 38, the worse it gets. So you'll want to clean your .357 soon after a day of shooting .38s. (this may be just a personal pet peeve)

Start reloading to shoot cheap! It's easier than one would think.

[squinty]

On stainless steel, a bit of lead away cloth on a brass jag cleans carbon out of the chambers pretty easily, and the cloth can scrub away the carbon on the front of the cylinder just fine. A small squirt of oven cleaner melts the carbon right off as well.

[TacAir]

Interesting. Never had a problem with my PF-9, but sold it - all of my KELTECs actually - because of the long and very heavy (IMO) trigger pull. A pistol is a very individual choice, you may have to go through several to find one that makes you happy - so, good luck with that.

[yossarian]

It seems that there is a combination of factors at play here. Kel-tec has sort of a reputation for spotty QC and it appears that you have fairly limited experience with shooting. I really think that all of these issues could be remedied with some more range time and/or a call to Kel-tec (they'll pick up the tab for shipping). Selling a "bad" gun is always a tricky proposition. Either you keep your mouth shut and hope it doesn't get somebody killed when they need it or you offer full disclosure and take a serious hit to the wallet.

That said, the PF9 is really not a great choice for a range/HD gun. It's designed for concealed carry and so it has all of the requisite compromises built in. If concealment and weight aren't going to be an issue then you'd be better served with a full sized pistol.

[Ansgar]

Thanks for all the great responses.

It was originally purchased for CCW, but several personal factors led me to decide against getting the license (namely that most of my time is spent on the campuses of schools), making the need to be able to conceal a moot point. I have always loved revolvers in general and feel that I have a pistol that turned out not to be right for me (it seems that most of the issues are due to a combination of a weak recoil spring and how long it's been since I've fired a sidearm [5 years], plus I just don't like the feel of it while firing, which I realize is just preference). The way I see it is that if I trade in the pistol and the MN 91-30 that is practically a safe queen (it's been to the range all of twice), I can put it towards something I will enjoy firing. Right now I'm looking at a 9mm Taurus 905 5-shot at my LGS that's asking 345. Any further suggestions?

[cbr900]

I ended up going with the P11 myself I read about too many problems with the PF9. Keltecs are an either love them or hate them gun they ain't no range gun for sure. My P11 was pinching the hell out of my finger, so I heated up the trigger and took some bend out. Once you get past the trigger they are not that bad they serve a purpose compact light and safe.

[yossarian]

A Taurus 905 is not likely to be something you will "enjoy" firing. Personally I don't see any reason to stick with lightweight (more felt recoil) and low capacity. 9mm revolvers have never really taken off. I think it's prudent to ask why that is before sinking money into one.


I think any full sized 9mm or 4" .357/.38 would be a much better choice.

[squinty]

I think you will have a better quality firearm, and a better customer service/warranty experience should such becomes necessary, if you stick with an all stainless Ruger or Smith&Wesson revolver. Why the insistence on shooting 9mm through a platform it wasn't designed for?

OK, I get it you want a revolver, but you want the cheapest centerfire round you can get for it. Still think you'd be happier long term wit a Ruger or Smith, but if you get the Taurus I'd be interested in the range report.

With the ammo savings and lower price on the Taurus 905, IMO your giving up a couple of important things.

1) Taurus does come with a lifetime warranty, but I've heard horror stories about Taurus QC and poor customer service experiences, many of them on this forum. You will have better luck quality and customer service wise with Smith or Ruger.

2) the 9mm revolver you are looking at is a close copy of a Smith and Wesson J-Frame, a compact/lightweight revolver designed for concealed carry, which you say you aren't really interested in. A full size revolver (say, a 4" S&W 686, or 686 plus) would add an extra round of capacity and a great deal of "shootability" compared to a J-Frame, in terms of heavier frame = lower felt recoil, longer barrel = longer sight radius, as well as a bit better muzzle velocity and terminal performance, less muzzle jump and less muzzle flash. The full size revolver will also come with better sights.

The only advantage to a concealed carry/compact weapon for home defense, IMO, is you can wear i comfortably around the house and if you ever FSM forbid need it, you don't have to run and get it out of the gun safe or out from under your bed or wherever you'd put your larger gun.


Many of the issues you had with the pf9 had to do with it being a small/light pistol that fired a full size cartridge, which = smaller. less ergonomic to grip, plus harsher (relative to same round in a larger gun) recoil.

If you are dead set on a 9mm, you would be better off with a service size 9mm pistol. I'd think a Glock 19, or service size (4.5" or 3.8" barrel) XD/XDM 9mm, or an M&P in 9mm would all be much easier to shoot and have much better initial quality than the Kel-Tec, and the advantage they give in terms of capacity and reload speed are well worth the extra expense, and slightly extra effort to get familiar with them, over the Taurus 9mm snubby.

If I were to own a revolver in pistol calibers, like a 9mm or .45 acp revolver, it would be as a backup or companion/holdout gun to pair with a full size pistol.

But that's all just my opinion of course, you have to do you. If you think the Taurus is a better fit for your needs, more power to you. It's an interesting revolver, that you don't see very often and I think a range report would be interesting. (Feel free to post, as appropriate to the situation "OMG I wish I'd listened to the Raccoon" or "Nyah nyah Squinty this new Taurus is tits you don't know what you are talking about." )

ETA:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_33/34049 ... eport.html
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=33&t=34933
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2011 ... -revolver/

[OnFire]

A keltec that doesn't work? Whoodathunk?

The shield is aweful sexy.

[Sheriff McClelland]

We had a lot of trouble with the Taurus 9mm revolvers . Eventually we quit selling them . Most issues were light primer strike and cylinder binding . I'm talking 25-30% of them had to go back .

I also encourage buying a 357/38 cal or simply a 38 Spl revolver .

[squinty]

If you are determined to get a snub-nose revolver, I have had great fun with my Smith&Wesson 649. Pricey, but I recommend it over any of Smith's aluminum or scandium framed snubbies, including .38 special J-Frames. It shoots .38 all day, accurately and easily.
My second choice of five shot snubby would be a Ruger SP101 in .357. Like the Smith, it's built like a tank and any problems you have with it (unlikely) will be fixed with zero drama by the manufacturer, here in the US. Both are a bit more pricey than the Taurus, but buy once cry once etc.

A full size revolver would suit you even better, I bet.

[Ansgar]

Traded in the PF9 and a Mosin for a .38 Special Smith & Wesson pre-10 at the LGS. It's got some minor fading, but it feels natural in my hand. I plan to take it out to the range next weekend and give it a go.

[squinty]

Traded in the PF9 and a Mosin for a .38 Special Smith & Wesson pre-10 at the LGS. It's got some minor fading, but it feels natural in my hand. I plan to take it out to the range next weekend and give it a go.

Neat! Post range report w/pics???

[majorhavoc]

Traded in the PF9 and a Mosin for a .38 Special Smith & Wesson pre-10 at the LGS. It's got some minor fading, but it feels natural in my hand. I plan to take it out to the range next weekend and give it a go.

Good for you. Here's to many happy hours shooting that puppy.