My idea of the ultimate fighting pistol.

[David Clark]

South Forks Arms, Stealth model in 9mm. My idea of a fighting pistol equipped with Nowlin threaded barrel.

There's a story behind this pistol. It starts with Jason ringing my phone one day. Jason says I want to run this by you and see what you think....

Wait, back up. I'm getting ahead of the story here. It begins with a trip to Jason's shop. I walk in and there's receivers and slides scattered across the carpet just left of front door. Receivers and slides are in government, commander and officers length. Almost 50 in total. Last one being serial number 50. I'm thinking it's Christmas only without the tree.

Kind of off center and in the middle is this one receiver. A rail model.

Just one.

So, I'm driving along on a day filled with sunshine and blue skies. Phone rings, I look down at caller ID. It's Jason. " I want to run something by you." I'm gonna build a suppressed model with the one recon frame. Just wanted to know what caliber you think I should do one in ? The rest of the day was a back and forth exchange of ideas between Jason, Jonathan and myself. Jason thought to be "Stealth" like, suppressed should sound suppressed. My thought ran along the line of 1911s are 45acp. Not exactly true because 1911s are and have been chambered in just about every modern pistol cartrage from .22lr through .460 and beyond.

So Jonathan's phone rang next for the definitive expert opinion. Jonathan says 9mm, definitely 9mm. Why would you even consider suppressing .45acp in a handgun ?? 9mm is much, much quieter. Our conversation then turns to the types he used in his 3 deployments as Army Sniper. Last deployment being outside Tikrit attached to an elite unit where he used multiple suppressed weapons.

We talked about ambi-safeties, tall sights, magwell, grip safety and finally which brand of suppressor run wet with welder tip gel.

This is the product of Jason's discussions and talent. For us die hards, Jason will make one in zombie stomping .45acp.

[TDW586]

Sexy. 9mm 1911's tend to have more reliability issues than .45 1911's, but if it's a quality build by a good smith it should be just fine. Nice.

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[Scout308]

Do that in 9x23 and I'd want one bad. Actually maybe do that and add a 9x23 barrel

It's a good looking piece - Who's sights?

Been thinking about building a lightweight carry 9x23 starting with a Caspian Ti Frame and Stainless Slide, Ed Brown Beaver tail with a trimmed down knob, Ti Main spring bobbed, Ambi Safety's. I'm not too worried about the metal work - but I'd really like an expert to fit the barrel so the timing is right, and to do the trigger. I can fit the safeties, do the bob, and the very light carry melt (or at least I've convinced myself I can


Why 9x23 - well the Pow'R Ball 9x23 is 100gr at 1600fps Serious Expansion. You get 10 + 1 Rounds, It's much lighter than .45acp it shoots flatter. and if you get a 9mm barrel you can practice with the cheap stuff - or do what I do and reload 9x23 practice loads (124gr @ 1200fps more or less)

[Haji]

9mm, definitely 9mm. Why would you even consider suppressing .45acp in a handgun ?? 9mm is much, much quieter.

Not by itself it isn't. Speed of sound is roughly 1125 FPS. Most 115 gr. ball 9mm, the most common ammo, runs around 1300, subjecting the projectile to breaking the sound barrier. You were right, DC: .45 ACP at less than a thousand FPS, mostly in the 950 to 985 FPS range, would have been significantly easier to keep quiet.

[TDW586]

But subsonic 9mm will be significantly quieter than .45 ACP, and is also common.

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[Jeriah]

I don't get it. The pistol looks nice and all, I mean REALLY nice, to look at, but I don't at all see what makes a (really nice) suppressed, 9mm M1911 the "ultimate fighting pistol." Why not just throw a can on a Glock 17, Glock 19, or Sig-Sauer P226? (If it said, "Ultimate Looking Sexy Pistol" I'd be right there with you.)

I'm not trying to refight "Glock v. 1911," just wondering if there is something specific about a suppressed 9mm 1911 that hits some kind of sweet spot compared to other suppressed 9mm pistols.

[TheLastOne]

'his idea' of the ultimate fighting pistol
Looks nice


One of the least-worse first posts lately too.

[Kutter_0311]

One of the least-worse first posts lately too.

Certainly! Nobody else brought gun p0rn their first day!

Damn sexy! For my money, though, G19/17/17L/34 w/ a can...

I like 1911's, and even own one, but I have multiple Glocks, and will buy many more...

[UndeadInfidel]

But subsonic 9mm will be significantly quieter than .45 ACP, and is also common.

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Depends on your idea of significant, and the suppressor/ammo combination being used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qza2Iy7cRIE

All of my 45acp stock is subsonic. How much 147gr subsonic 9mm do you have on hand?

[Branth]

I'm not so sure about subsonic 9mm... The 9mm is based on the "light and fast" method for getting the job done, and good ammo is designed to expand. I'd think you'd compromise that shooting low-velocity loads. I'm a big 9mm guy, but if I were gonna suppress it, I would have stuck with a .45.

[Projo]

That is a nice weapon (nice LMF also) and I would have to agree with your ideal of an ulimate pistol.

[Jeriah]

I'm not so sure about subsonic 9mm... The 9mm is based on the "light and fast" method for getting the job done, and good ammo is designed to expand. I'd think you'd compromise that shooting low-velocity loads. I'm a big 9mm guy, but if I were gonna suppress it, I would have stuck with a .45.

Suppressed 9mms make sense to me, whether used with supersonic or subsonic ammunition. Suppressed .45s make even more sense to me; inherently subsonic, they make a lot of sense to me suppressed.

I'm not a M1911 guy, but if I were, I'd be hard pressed to see any reason to go with one in 9mm over .45, unless a BHP counts as a 9mm M1911. I may be missing something, though: is there something really sweet about a 9mm M1911?

[SeerSavant]

I may be missing something, though: is there something really sweet about a 9mm M1911?

Only if it's as reliable as a .45acp 1911... So far, it's a basic hit or miss....

So, while In the camp that a suppressed 1911 in .45 would be awesome...


In 9mm, I would change a few things.... Like the gun for starters....

So my idea of the ultimate silenced 9mm pistol (and remember all, I don't like striker fired or plastic guns... Not hating on them, just prefer steel) would be something along the lines of this...



And while it may not be in the 1911 family as it were, it is of course a cousin to the browning design, many might say the next logical step to the hi power....

My opinion...

I don't really have an ultimate fighting pistol ideal... Just something that runs without failing you, can fire a brand name and surplus ammo thru it (instead of finicky types that have to have X brand) and has been proven...

And of course, that would be simply the secondary piece of fighting gear to a primary AK/AR/FAL/etc...

[Walking-dead]

How can that possibly be the ultimate fighting pistol if its not a Glock or a Sig?

[TDW586]

Depends on your idea of significant, and the suppressor/ammo combination being used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qza2Iy7cRIE[/url]

Yes, the specific suppressor and ammo makes a difference. But the size of 9mm relative to .45 ACP means simply that there will be less gas escaping and hence less that must be trapped and cooled by the suppressor.

Youtube videos are a poor choice for judging the signature of gunshots.

All of my 45acp stock is subsonic. How much 147gr subsonic 9mm do you have on hand?

I don't own a 9mm at the moment, so, none. But if I did, the answer would be "as much as I want to buy", so I don't really understand your point. 147-grain 9mm is not at all an exotic, uncommon or hard to find load, and generally less expensive than equivalent (duty grade hollow point) .45 ACP.


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[Kutter_0311]

How can that possibly be the ultimate fighting pistol if its not a Glock or a Sig?

Different strokes for different folks... I'm happy in the AK/Glock camp, also like 1911's, but not a Sig or XD guy, but my buddy is. He rocks the AR10/XD/Sig, but is starting to fall in love with my Arsenal AK's.

[crypto]

unless a BHP counts as a 9mm M1911.

No, sir. It doesn't. The BHP is what we got after JMB realized what was wrong with the 1911, and fixed it.

[alptraum]

Certainly looks nice. But among other 1911 issues you're getting half the capacity of a more modern design...

[UndeadInfidel]

I don't own a 9mm at the moment, so, none. But if I did, the answer would be "as much as I want to buy", so I don't really understand your point. 147-grain 9mm is not at all an exotic, uncommon or hard to find load, and generally less expensive than equivalent (duty grade hollow point) .45 ACP.

Again, I wouldn't say suppressed 9mm in the standard 147gr load is "significantly" quieter, so I wouldn't allow that to be the leading factor in my decision. Just speaking from a realistic perspective, because the "ultimate" fighting pistol will vary from individual to individual. You can theoretically have as much of anything you "want", but realistically you probably don't or never will. I personally already have stocks of ammo, so for me the ultimate suppressed pistol would take advantage of my current ammo stocks.

I'm not so sure about subsonic 9mm... The 9mm is based on the "light and fast" method for getting the job done, and good ammo is designed to expand. I'd think you'd compromise that shooting low-velocity loads. I'm a big 9mm guy, but if I were gonna suppress it, I would have stuck with a .45.

Also, this. You can shoot the most effective 45acp defense ammo and still remain the ballistics that make it a great defense round. 9mm subsonic ammo is inferior to standard 230gr 45acp defensive loads. You can't compare 9mm subsonic loads to the +P defensive stuff everyone is raving about.

As far as the suppressor itself, I'd want a 45acp can that can suppress both 9mm and 45acp, because realistically I don't have enough money or time to jump through all the ATF bullshit hoops and pay thousands for multiple stamps. You're not going to get every single ounce of performance out of suppressing 9mm with it, but a single modern 45acp can will suppress most semi auto rounds (9mm, 40cal, 45acp, etc) to a hearing safe level while dry. I guess I'm just more a fan of the utility of a suppressor than anything. Having 9mm can that's limited to specific ammo types is... limiting.
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Disclaimer - I'm fairly drunk and none of the above may make perfect sense.

[chills1994]

smells like spam to me.

WRT to 9mm velocities, WWB 9mm is giving me a 132 PF from a 5 inch barrel, over my CED chrono, backtracking the math...

132,000 divided by 115 grains gets ya 1,147 fps.

which is nowhere near 1,300 fps.

the 1,300 to 1,400 fps for a 124 grain bullet puts into USPSA's 9mm Major territory. 1,330 fps to be exact

Major PF = 165

165,000/124 = 1,330

I would not want to shoot 9mm Major through a un-compensated pistol for very long.

[chills1994]

I have a wire welder, I run Argon/CO2 mix. Never felt the need to buy weld tip "lube". I hope it works much better inside suppressors than it does for inside welding tips.

[chills1994]

starting at $2,899.00

http://www.southforkarms.com/

[MaconCJ7]

The speed of sound is about 1130fps, not 1300.

[alptraum]

smells like spam to me.

Pretty much.