ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by nimdabew » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:02 pm

AKFTW wrote: Nah, unfortunately they don't. It really wasn't hard, just took a dremel and a Glock 19 mag, cut conservatively and then sand until the 19 mag fits and you have a bit of a gap like on the factory magwell. Only took about 2 hours of careful work. If you have a Glock 19 frame to measure it by it's even easier. If you're afraid of doing that, just get a 19, but I wanted the 17 chopped because I'm not afraid to do some home-gunsmithing to make a platform more optimal for my needs.
It really is this easy. I did it to my M&P9 that I sold a few days ago so I could buy a G19. YMMV
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by shiddymunkie » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:15 pm

How about this? Technically its a handgun

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Its a Draco 7.62 x 39 pistol bullpup that, because of clever designing, the NFA has deemed neither a SBR or AOW, but a "handgun". The kit is from center balance. I wonder if the NFA will let you put an AFG on this too without needing a stamp :lol:

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by AKFTW » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:22 pm

Show me a holster for it :roll:
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by shiddymunkie » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:27 pm

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:55 pm

shiddymunkie wrote:Image
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Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
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http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by shiddymunkie » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:05 pm

lol

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by misanthropist » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:40 pm

For me, the obvious choice is the G17/19.

I would also be fine with my 20sf but recbognize that for most this is not as practical an option, just because they probably don't have thousands of rounds of 10mm on hand, and haven't run pistol courses with a 10mm, and consequently are less proficient with that caliber. Obviously Steppenwolf is exempt from this restriction.

My wife would take her West German 226.

Other options that I don't own but would also be fine with include, and are pretty much limited to, the following:

USP
P30
HK45
M&P 40 or 45
Conceivably a P99 or PPQ
Beretta 92, if forced


Assuming this is for today's world, and not the PAW, I would also be fine with a proven, QUALITY 1911. This means no Paras, no Tauruses, no RIAs, etc. I would be fine with a Colt, a mid-to-upper level Springfield, a S&W E series, or any of the combat ready customs and semi-customs. I have had a couple of good custom builds on Norinco frames and slides, but don't mistake my love of the Norinco as a base for a build for the belief that cheap 1911s are good bet-your-life guns.


I can't think of any other guns I would want or recommend, although I guess I'll probably think of one later. Maybe the P7...super cool but ultimately not what I would want if I could only have one.
DocGKR wrote:.45 ACP is much easier to stop with armor than the smaller, faster 9 mm. On the other hand, the larger mass of .45 ACP allows it to do much better against windshields than 9 mm. What is optimal all depends on your likely engagement scenarios.

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by PotatoMuncher » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:52 pm

Id take a FNP 45 with a suppressor. I only say that because Ive never owned a silenced weapon.

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Omega DR » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:24 am

For me, my Glock 22, in .40 cal, offer the perfect combination of controlibilty,(sp), stopping power, plus magazine capacity. I have a Taurus MILLENNIUM PRO, 9mm that I can't stand. Not a big fan of compact polymer pistols, or double action only. But, by far my favorite pistol is my Bersa Thunder 380 Plus. The Bersa get a bad rap, as well as its 380 round. But with 15rds available, it's all steel construction eliminates almost all recoil, it's one sweet shooting pistol. Load with Extreme Shock Enhanced Penetration Ammunition, it's perfect as a backup gun or CCW carry.

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by CipherNameRaVeN » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:26 am

shiddymunkie wrote:How about this? Technically its a handgun

Image

Its a Draco 7.62 x 39 pistol bullpup that, because of clever designing, the NFA has deemed neither a SBR or AOW, but a "handgun". The kit is from center balance. I wonder if the NFA will let you put an AFG on this too without needing a stamp :lol:
That belongs in the WTF thread!

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by chrisw » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:20 am

I think we need a volunteer? anyone want to keep track of what people post here and put a list up with number of votes vs sidearm of choice?


p.s. that FNP looks nice especially with that suppressor. I would like to own one of the fnp's one of these days.

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by coltm4 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:45 am

Nothing fancy. Just my tried and true Glock 19. Maybe add my 32 rd mag and streamlight TLR1
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Silent Kube » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:36 am

shiddymunkie wrote:I wonder if the NFA will let you put an AFG on this too without needing a stamp :lol:
I know you were just joking, but from the page.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by aus.templar » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:06 am

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Tommy Tran » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:19 pm

gimmejr wrote:It would either be one of my Glocks or this one.

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Woooooooow!!!! Dude one of my fav 1911's Dan Wessons are so nicely finished from the factory!!!
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by shiddymunkie » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:28 pm

Silent Kube wrote:
shiddymunkie wrote:I wonder if the NFA will let you put an AFG on this too without needing a stamp :lol:
I know you were just joking, but from the page.
All NFA rules apply and the addition of a foreend grip would constitute a Short Barrelled Rifle configuration, requiring proper Federal regulation and registration
True adding a traditional VFG would make it a AOW (not sure why they say SBR if its a "stockless" pistol otherwise), but the AFG can be put on AR pistols/PLR-16 without it being considered an AOW. If this Draco Bullpup truly is considered a pistol, seems like the same exception would apply. But yes, I was joking. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to hear what they would say...

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by UndeadInfidel » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:37 pm

shiddymunkie wrote:
Silent Kube wrote:
shiddymunkie wrote:I wonder if the NFA will let you put an AFG on this too without needing a stamp :lol:
I know you were just joking, but from the page.
All NFA rules apply and the addition of a foreend grip would constitute a Short Barrelled Rifle configuration, requiring proper Federal regulation and registration
True adding a traditional VFG would make it a AOW (not sure why they say SBR if its a "stockless" pistol otherwise), but the AFG can be put on AR pistols/PLR-16 without it being considered an AOW. If this Draco Bullpup truly is considered a pistol, seems like the same exception would apply. But yes, I was joking. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to hear what they would say...
I'm doubting you've ever fired a gun with an AFG. You act as if it's any better than a standard hand guard. When it's that close to the receiver it's absolutely worthless.
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by TheLastOne » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:07 pm

Very jealous Aus, I've been looking here for a while. I'll end up having to get it online I think.

To further derail with the chopped glock...I've been thinking about doing it w my g22. Above mentioned just cutting a little and testing the new mag (in my case would be a g23 mag). Would measuring the difference in length in magazines and applying that (with a little room for error/sanding) not be the best way to get the right measurement? Also, how is the best way to keep the angle of the base of the pistol to magazine from not getting screwed? Maybe somebody should make a thread on this, and I'll go google it for myself :mrgreen:
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by AKFTW » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:10 pm

TheLastOne wrote:Very jealous Aus, I've been looking here for a while. I'll end up having to get it online I think.

To further derail with the chopped glock...I've been thinking about doing it w my g22. Above mentioned just cutting a little and testing the new mag (in my case would be a g23 mag). Would measuring the difference in length in magazines and applying that (with a little room for error/sanding) not be the best way to get the right measurement? Also, how is the best way to keep the angle of the base of the pistol to magazine from not getting screwed? Maybe somebody should make a thread on this, and I'll go google it for myself :mrgreen:
Just look at some pics, try to cut to match the angle but leave some material, then sand to fit. It's easier than it looks. Once you get the mag to lock in you can easily contour the back of the magwell area to look nice. Just take your time, you can always take more plastic off but you can't put any back!
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by Leester » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:26 pm

For me, it is my 1911A1 in .45ACP, not because I believe the 45 is the greatest, or the 1911 is the best, but my Natural Point of Aim is best with the 1911 frame, and I find the recoil manageable. A good substitute (again, for me) in 9mm would be a Hi-Power. A .22LR pistol is mandatory, my choice is the Buckmark over the Ruger, mostly because of aftermarket threaded barrel options. Also, in my area, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting 6 people who own .38's, so a 4" bbl .357 revolver would be a great addition as a spare/backup/nightstand/whatever. I like the GP100, S&W 686, and surprisingly, the Charter Arms.
The G17 is acceptable to me, but doesn't jive with my NPA, I have to focus a little on each round. I could live with it though, so we'll call it a standby. Same with the G20 and G21.
The Para, Beretta, CZ-52, Witness, Ruger P series, Eagle/Jericho, and S&W semis pretty much fall way outside my NPA, so I view them as "last options".
Sigma's, M&P's, and the Taurus 24/7- atrocious triggers.
I have not yet had the opportunity to shoot any SA XD.

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9mm- Hi-Power.
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10mm- G20.
.45ACP- 1911A1, single stack.
.38 special/.357 mag/.38short colt/.38 S&W- revolver.
.44 mag/special- revolver, Colt.
7.62x25mm Tok- TT-33 (Norinco 213)

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by nimdabew » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:39 pm

AKFTW wrote:
TheLastOne wrote:Very jealous Aus, I've been looking here for a while. I'll end up having to get it online I think.

To further derail with the chopped glock...I've been thinking about doing it w my g22. Above mentioned just cutting a little and testing the new mag (in my case would be a g23 mag). Would measuring the difference in length in magazines and applying that (with a little room for error/sanding) not be the best way to get the right measurement? Also, how is the best way to keep the angle of the base of the pistol to magazine from not getting screwed? Maybe somebody should make a thread on this, and I'll go google it for myself :mrgreen:
Just look at some pics, try to cut to match the angle but leave some material, then sand to fit. It's easier than it looks. Once you get the mag to lock in you can easily contour the back of the magwell area to look nice. Just take your time, you can always take more plastic off but you can't put any back!
This. I did mine in an hour before I had to *rush* through so I could get to work on time and it turned out great! Imagine what it would have looked like if I had waited and did a proper job!
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by misanthropist » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:13 am

My strategy with the 17/19 chop was to wait until I saw someone selling one used. They have ZERO resale value and I got it for practically nothing.
DocGKR wrote:.45 ACP is much easier to stop with armor than the smaller, faster 9 mm. On the other hand, the larger mass of .45 ACP allows it to do much better against windshields than 9 mm. What is optimal all depends on your likely engagement scenarios.

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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by AKFTW » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:16 am

misanthropist wrote:My strategy with the 17/19 chop was to wait until I saw someone selling one used. They have ZERO resale value and I got it for practically nothing.
Yep, this is a mod for someone who intends to keep their gun. Personally the Glock 17K has everything I could ever want in a 9mm handgun so I have no regrets. It's perfect, at least IMHO. :D
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Re: ZS SHTF sidearm of choice (updated)

Post by RottnJP » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Actually, funny you should mention that- I call mine a Glock 22.5 :mrgreen:

My daily carry is a G23 frame with a G22 slide. It requires a custom barrel available from lonewolf. It looks better with their "dust cover" which fills the gap under the slide that results when you do this.

So you spend a little extra, but retain the ability to change back to the OEM config if you don't like it.

I actually like this so much for a CCW that the next time I do it I'll just chop the frame. I plan to do that with one of my G20SF's eventually and start carrying that. Me likee some 10mm.

In principle I'd say G20SF would be what I'd grab if I were expecting trouble, and I do carry it sometimes if I'm just throwing on a OWB holster under a jacket or "Hey Look at me I'm carrying a pistol" long untucked shirt. But most likely when SHTF (like during our recent power outage up here) it'll be my trusty G22.5 that's on my hip, along with the extra mags and M1A in my truck, just like any other day. (It's a SOCOM 16, which I like a *lot.* Very handy little rifle.)

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