The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Handgun, Pistol and Revolver topics

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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by misanthropist » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:45 pm

the OP really covers the fundamentals of pistol shooting well.

I throw a bit of slow fire in every range trip, usually 10 rounds freestyle, 10 strong hand, 10 weak hand. I am reasonably satisfied with groups under 2 inches at 7 yards, although I prefer to get down around the one inch mark and if I am really focused that's pretty achievable for me.

Typically my best groups are weak hand only because I focus much harder on sight alignment, whereas strong hand or both hands, I'm not paying a ton of attention because I know it will be a 1-2 inch group whether I'm putting in effort or not.

Laziness is the enemy of accuracy, I guess.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by ZombieSoldier01 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:39 pm

you know this is a fantastic post. thank you OP.

In my experience while at the range, most of my soldiers do some stupid things when they shoot. here is a list of things i have seen

1. too much finger inside the trigger well. causes you to pull the weapon sideways slightly as they squeeze the trigger

2. sight picture. they dont go back to their original sight picture while shooting. most of the time they shoot, and as the weapon recoils they actually lift their head instead of reacquiring their target.

3. anticipating the shot. the weapon should actually surprise you as it fires. instead they tense up too much not allowing the weapon to do its job

4. buttstock placement (obviously rifle, but still good to know). you should put the buttstock in the natural pocket of your shoulder. i have seen the buttstock placed on the biceps, collarbone, pectoral, and neck(i kid you not)

5. breathing. use your bodies natural rise and fall, what untill you get to those rest spots and squeeze the trigger. that will get you the best shot you can get.. some people dont understand that.

6. hand placement... dont get bit by the slide, and dont limp wrist it!

7. body position. square up with the target. you arent shooting a shotgun...

8. and my personal favorite..... if you are a narcoleptic dont use a weapon. in basic one of my battle buddies was narcoleptic. he would fall asleep anywhere at any time. we were at BRM Qualification range. He dropped into the foxhole, started shooting then fell asleep half way through the table... he provided a good laugh for us as the drill sergeants ate his ass up!

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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Trebor » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:32 pm

Thought I'd bump this again. Try it if you haven't tried it yet. It's harder than it looks.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Bearcat » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:24 am

Tagged for reference.

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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Trebor » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:07 pm

Bump because this just came up again.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Talon04 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:08 pm

I've been working on this myself when the Wife and I go to the range this Wednesday I will post pics of the results.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by majorhavoc » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:19 pm

Thanks Trebor. This is extremely timely for me. I just got a Sig 2022 and discovered that when it comes to pistol shooting, I SUCK. Definitely will be applying these techniques the next time I get to the range.

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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by maldon007 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:34 pm

Did a little bit of this on sat (coincidentally, hadn't read this thread). Was very pleased, did some up close but not exactly that way... then out to 25 yeards after that... A distance I had trouble keeping rounds on paper at, just a few weeks ago & that was shooting at rest...

This time, keeping the basics in mind, I kept two whole mags on 8.5" x 11" sheets (best of 4 mags), somewhat centered (mostly)... From free-stand! I was so proud of me :rofl: (cheapo sigma .40 btw)

My pops was shooting better too...

And a VERY odd coincidence, I was too cheap to buy targets, so I grabbed some print paper from the car & scribbled a dot in the center... about a 1" dot, and we used those. *cue twilight zone music*

This is always how it works here (why I love ZS), something comes up that I am interested in/have done recently/need to know about... The next few days it pops up here!
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by EmbraceTheHate » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:40 am

I practice those every time I go to the range. I start out slow firing then I speed up the process. I also will start with my gun holstered. I try to run every scenario that I may encounter. The only thing I haven't done is shoot at night. I cannot find a place for it.

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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Philpot » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:11 pm

Definitely trying this next time. I've done it often with rifles, never with my pistol.

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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by phoenixmastm » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:16 am

I miss reading your awesome posts Trebor.

Gonna give this a shot when I move. Cant really do it now.

Got a post about how to shoot better with rifles?

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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Mild Thang » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:50 pm

Great thread so far. I will be home next month and I will definitely be doing some long overdue shooting, so targets to follow at a later date.

I have this little bit to offer:

Anticipating the shot causes most trigger control problems, whether you try to "force" the round out and end up dipping the barrel or heeling it in anticipation of the recoil, raising the barrel. You can feel it when you do it but it is difficult to work on correcting.

One method we used to use in my unit was loading a couple of snap caps in your mags randomly. Just load up three or four mags at once, with two or three snap caps mixed in among the live rounds in each mag, and then throw the mags into your range bag and pull one without looking at it. Load, aim, and fire. When you press the trigger on a snap cap, you see every little thing you are doing wrong. Then you get a little practice handling a malfunction too, not that slap, rack, pull is that difficult. It is surprising how long it takes people to execute it, usually there is a two count of just staring at the gun that didn't shoot like it was doing it on purpose to fuck with you.

If you shoot with a partner, it is even easier. Have your partner load a magazine with a single round or a single snap cap, then make the weapon hot and hand it over to you to shoot. If you feel comfortable loading a magazine without looking at it then you can do this yourself using the grab-bag method, just load a few mags up, throw them in the range bag, pull and load one without looking at it to see whether it is a live round or snap cap. If you do this a dozen or so times, your trigger control will improve and your first round accuracy will really start to tighten up, because you can see and correct the minor errors and then see the effect on target when you actually shoot a live round.

You get a lot of training for the amount of time and ammo that it takes. I highly recommend it, especially if you even think you might be anticipating recoil. :)

Edited for grammar, just a bit.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by M14fan » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:15 am

This is a great thread and worthy of intermittent resurrection. In addition to great advice on the fundamentals of marksmanship, here is a synopsis of the general direction of this thread as I have read it.

There are no such things as ‘Advanced Shooting Techniques’ there are only the fundamentals of marksmanship. ‘Advanced’ Shooting is merely fundamentals performed with a high degree of proficiency. ‘Tactical’ is maintaining a high degree of proficiency while interesting things are happening. Slow is accurate, accurate is fast.

Keep up the good dialogue. :clap:
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Trebor » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:51 pm

phoenixmastm wrote:I miss reading your awesome posts Trebor.

Gonna give this a shot when I move. Cant really do it now.

Got a post about how to shoot better with rifles?
Thanks. I'm still here, I just don't post as much.

I don't have as many tips about rifle shooting as I primarily focus on pistols. Read anything here by Dave M and Doc 66 for the down low on rifle shooting.

Btw, if you haven't seen it, I've been writing some CCW tips recently in my Michigan Firearms Examiner column. That's where a lot of my effort has been going lately.

http://www.examiner.com/article/five-ti ... b_articles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by BeTheBall » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:53 am

I love the OP thread, it's something that we should all think about doing because this is a perishable skill and needs to be practiced. Since reading this thread I have kept it in mind during each range session as well as an old coach who used to say accuracy first, then the speed will come.

Bearing that in mind, here is a (video) postal match from another forum. It is not slow shooting and moving is most definitely involved. I am only putting it out there because it would not be possible to do this with any kind of reasonable results if one does not start out as well as continually practice as stated in the OP.



Thanks again to the OP for an inspiring and important training tool!

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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Trebor » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:48 pm

Ok, it's been a year since this was last bumped, and I'm sure there are many people who haven't seen it, so here's another bump.

Seriously, read through it, do it, and see how much your shooting improves.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by dtwn92 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:52 pm

Sorry to dig up the old threads! This really made me work this week. My only comments are; thanks! and Thanks so more.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Trebor » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:42 am

It's been a year since anyone saw this so I thought I'd bump it.

Read the post, follow the instructions, and report back. Let us know if it helped.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by procyon » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:06 pm

Great post. I've apparently missed it all this time.

I am not an amazing handgun shot, but I will offer one thing that has helped me and my family over the years.
It does require a revolver though.

We start with the dry fire practice. But when it comes time to fire the rounds down range - we load the cylinder with 5 empties and only one live round.
Then spin the cylinder and close it. Don't look where the round ended up. Or have someone else do it.
Now - line up your shot and pull the trigger. And remind yourself that the gun is empty and NOT TO FLINCH.

You would be amazed at how many folks will flinch when a live round is in the gun but it drops the hammer on a spent round.

When the gun finally goes bang and you have followed through - reload only one round and repeat the process.
You will pull the trigger around 15-20 times to get your 5 shots.
It will make a box of ammo last a looong time and really force you not to flinch when the gun is loaded.
And when you get to where you are squeezing off those rounds like the gun is empty - the groups tighten up considerably.


But if you don't get the basics down that you have discussed - not flinching won't fix bad shooting.
Again - great post.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by turbo6 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:31 pm

Great post.

I like to try and mix things up a bit. Chances are, if you have to use a pistol for self defense you will not have a warning, things will happen quickly and you will have to act fast.

Conversely, there are some situations where you may have time to focus, assess the threat and collect yourself.

So while careful, focused marksmanship is important I try to also throw in some one handed drills, off hand shooting, quick draws, crouched or weird angles... all helpful in getting your skill level up.

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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Trebor » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:20 pm

turbo6 wrote:Great post.

I like to try and mix things up a bit. Chances are, if you have to use a pistol for self defense you will not have a warning, things will happen quickly and you will have to act fast.

Conversely, there are some situations where you may have time to focus, assess the threat and collect yourself.

So while careful, focused marksmanship is important I try to also throw in some one handed drills, off hand shooting, quick draws, crouched or weird angles... all helpful in getting your skill level up.
Yes, there is more to defensive shooting then slow, deliberate aimed fire.

But, this specific drill is to work on the fundamentals of deliberate aimed fire. I find that for many shooters their basic handgun skills are not as good as they could be and this is designed to help with that. Other drills are helpful for other things and no one drill does everything.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by thrillbilly » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:18 am

Very seldom do I shoot slow, aimed fire under 10 yards. At that distance I practice point shooting and my draw presentation.

I practice slow aimed fire at 25, 50, 75, 100 yards.

But I have zeroed my carry guns a long time ago, and I know where they shoot at close range (in case I need to blow a snakes head off or make that proverbial ''Boom! Headshot'' on a bad zombie guy)

I really enjoy long-range handgunning, plinking cans at 100 with G19 is fun fun fun. And it demonstrates your mistakes GRAPHICALLY.
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Trebor » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:33 am

thrillbilly wrote:Very seldom do I shoot slow, aimed fire under 10 yards. At that distance I practice point shooting and my draw presentation.

I practice slow aimed fire at 25, 50, 75, 100 yards.

But I have zeroed my carry guns a long time ago, and I know where they shoot at close range (in case I need to blow a snakes head off or make that proverbial ''Boom! Headshot'' on a bad zombie guy)

I really enjoy long-range handgunning, plinking cans at 100 with G19 is fun fun fun. And it demonstrates your mistakes GRAPHICALLY.
You know, a thread on tips for 100 yard handgunning is not a bad idea. You want to start one and share your tips?
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Re: The Pistol Challenge - Demand more from yourself!

Post by Trebor » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:04 pm

Sharing this because I know there are people who haven't seen it.

Try it, and report back with the results
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