SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Handgun, Pistol and Revolver topics

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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby squinty » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:28 am

Chef wrote:
it is illegal to have a round in the chamber during ccw


That doesn't sound right-- you almost might as well not carry for all the good it'd do you.. I'd look into it and not just take the sheriff's word.

One overlooked point in all this discussion is that a revolver only spits out one piece of evidence per pull of the trigger, and it goes into the target (at least it should). An auto spits one piece of evidence at the target and where does the other one go?

My autos don't spit out any pieces of evidence at all - Since I don't commit crimes with my firearms nothing that comes out of them is "evidence." :wink:
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Redeyes » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:08 am

PointBlank wrote:
BECAUSE....magazine springs eventually fail due to "spring set" which will cause a semi-auto to become a useless single shot.


Magazine springs don't "take a set" they become worn out due to compression and decompression cycles. I have Glock, AK-47, and Saiga 12 magazines I have left loaded for years and they run fine.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby foxx » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:15 am

Redeyes wrote:
PointBlank wrote:
BECAUSE....magazine springs eventually fail due to "spring set" which will cause a semi-auto to become a useless single shot.


Magazine springs don't "take a set" they become worn out due to compression and decompression cycles. I have Glock, AK-47, and Saiga 12 magazines I have left loaded for years and they run fine.


Why leave them loaded for years? Buy extra and rotate your mags, so they won't wear out. Keep one or some of them unloaded, rotate them every week or two.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby azrael99 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:36 am

i DO believe there will be a place for revolver, in that scenario. you can't ignore the advantage of revolver.

-simplicity of use: load aim and shoot. it's that simple. cork the hammer for a slightly sensible trigger. no need to remember that safety, you are the safety.
-reliability (even though there is pistol with similar reliability)
-high caliber capacity (there is not so much pistol with the capacity to shoot high caliber rounds without weight as much as a brick)
-fewer part than a pistol: in my mentality the fewer the better: ak fan will agree with me
-lower change of jamming than a pistol: cylinder are tougher to jam than a mag or a slide. the risk is still there. a revolver CAN jam but less often than a pistol.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Polie » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:42 am

wow old as heck thread and all I see is Sig_Ocelot is an idiot. lol

Lets see anyone with a semi auto take a moose at a little over 100yards with his sig 9mm. My .45 Colt Blackhawk has done that with a 225gr Keith style bullet and 16gr's of Blue Dot. Sure is a SAO, but its not for defensive purposes except of the occasional bear while out fishing. For two legged critters then I carry something else. Maybe the uber tacticool mall ninja Sig_Ocelot with his super sig of death knows better. I'm sure he has killed 300men with only 250 bullets, never has to reload, never cleans his guns, and never has a jam.


/rant off and goes back to his loading press.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Redeyes » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:50 am

foxx wrote:
Redeyes wrote:
PointBlank wrote:
BECAUSE....magazine springs eventually fail due to "spring set" which will cause a semi-auto to become a useless single shot.


Magazine springs don't "take a set" they become worn out due to compression and decompression cycles. I have Glock, AK-47, and Saiga 12 magazines I have left loaded for years and they run fine.


Why leave them loaded for years? Buy extra and rotate your mags, so they won't wear out. Keep one or some of them unloaded, rotate them every week or two.


Why would I do that? Leaving magazines loaded doesn't wear them out. Cycling them wears them out. I have plenty of magazines. I clean and check the function of my magazines loaded with defensive ammo every couple months. Not because I am worried about the springs "taking a set" but because it is a good idea . I have some other magazines that have been loaded for years and they are fine.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Redeyes » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:58 am

Polie wrote:wow old as heck thread and all I see is Sig_Ocelot is an idiot. lol

Lets see anyone with a semi auto take a moose at a little over 100yards with his sig 9mm. My .45 Colt Blackhawk has done that with a 225gr Keith style bullet and 16gr's of Blue Dot. Sure is a SAO, but its not for defensive purposes except of the occasional bear while out fishing. For two legged critters then I carry something else. Maybe the uber tacticool mall ninja Sig_Ocelot with his super sig of death knows better. I'm sure he has killed 300men with only 250 bullets, never has to reload, never cleans his guns, and never has a jam.


/rant off and goes back to his loading press.


Hey Polie read rule #3 viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Polie » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:00 am

Redeyes wrote:
Polie wrote:wow old as heck thread and all I see is Sig_Ocelot is an idiot. lol

Lets see anyone with a semi auto take a moose at a little over 100yards with his sig 9mm. My .45 Colt Blackhawk has done that with a 225gr Keith style bullet and 16gr's of Blue Dot. Sure is a SAO, but its not for defensive purposes except of the occasional bear while out fishing. For two legged critters then I carry something else. Maybe the uber tacticool mall ninja Sig_Ocelot with his super sig of death knows better. I'm sure he has killed 300men with only 250 bullets, never has to reload, never cleans his guns, and never has a jam.


/rant off and goes back to his loading press.


Hey Polie read rule #3 viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895


read number 3 and 4 yourself.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby VinnieD » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:52 am

For the sake of revolvers, let's point out some obvious apples the oranges comparisons that revolver haters like to use.

Reloading: A lot of semi fans like to compare reloading one round at a time into a cylinder to the speed of putting a loaded mag into a semi. A reasonable comparison would be reloading with a speed loader or moon clip versus changing cylinders.

Steps for a semi: Eject spent mag. if it's a free drop mag then this goes faster, otherwise there's the time to pluck out the previous mag. Then insert next pre loaded magazine. Rack the slide.

Steps for Revolver: Open cylinder and eject spent casings. Probably the slowest part of the process versus ejecting. Load fresh rounds via speed loader or moonclip, close cylinder.

Roughly the same number of steps. Ss a revolver reload as fast now? No, but the difference isn't nearly as drastic as the detractors make it out to be. Now if you want to talk about reloading without speed loaders, the revolver still chambers 5-8 rounds. How well does a semi work without a magazine in it?

Next up, power. We can argue 9mm vs .38spl all day long. 9mm is faster, 38 is heavier, pick your your lead posioning.
But in higher calibers revolvers have the clear and obvious advantage. .357 sig can sort of scrape the bottom of .357mag on the low end but not on the high end. Yes you can get similar velocities to .357 mag by cutting the bullet weight, but you're not going to get the high end performance from sig that you get out of hot loaded 158, 180, and 200gr load. The .357mag with its heavier round and greater space for powder has far more potential than sig can get. By the same argument while the 10mm is a potent round, .41 mag again has the greater high end performance. Same goes for .45acp and .45lc and that's before we even get into .44 mag, .454 Casull and .500S&WMag, but at that point you're getting into hunting and large predator defense. Sticking to practical rounds for personal defense, .357mag still outshines .357 sig as long as the shooter can handle the recoil.

It's capacity versus power. Arguments can be made for both, but you can't argue that semis have both. A frame that's designed with more moving parts, and to utilize X amount of recoil with Y spring to absorb said recoil has an upper limit to how much it can handle. That's a limitation of a mechanical device. A cylinder can only hold so many rounds without being too large to be practical, a slide can only handle so much recoil. It's always going to be a trade off. Personally I carry a revolver in .357 magnum. It's no secret that I just plain prefer revolvers, but I'm also a pragmatist with self defense. I chose to carry this particular gun because I have my doubt in the ability of non-magnum rounds to stop a threat. I've heard enough horror stories of 9mms failing to stop, and .380's bouncing off skulls. The .357 is a round designed from its inception to penetrate even through heavy car doors of its era. I don't doubt its capacity to take down a threat, and I'm willing to give up some capacity for that stopping power. A semi fan might not trust their own accuracy or believe themselves more likely to encounter threats in large groups, or simply believe it's preferable to make multiple weaker hits than a few more effective ones. I suppose there is credit to the saying I once heard "regardless of scale, things tend to die if you put enough holes in them."

The last argument I want to make is reliability. The OP made the biggest apples to oranges comparison putting a sig against a taurus. Now that's just silly. Mind if I compare my Dan Wesson to a Hi-Point while we're at it? Fact of the matter is, a revolver cocks and loads via the power of the shooter its self. A semi relies on a round having the right amount of recoil to compress a spring, and springs to have the right amount of strength to perform their duties. When I pull the trigger on my revolver I know a bullet is coming out of it. I just can't trust my life to a device that has so much of its duties out of my hands. In a confrontation, you may not have the time to clear a malfunction. Then there's the issues of various safeties which have been covered before.

Capacity is an argument that goes in favor of double stack magazines, but the ever popular single stack 1911s and mouse guns, the capacity argument is pretty well mitigated. Double stack guns of course sacrifice some of their concealability, but the point here isn't to entirely say that semis don't have a capacity advantage, but to point out that not all semis, particularly some of the most popular right now.

All in all revolvers are a valid choice for power, simplicity of operation, and reliability versus capacity and SOME reload speed. For military and police purposes, when you have someone else to cover you while you clear a malfunction, that's fine. When it's one on one, I'll take the revolver first every time. I won't totally detract from semis though. When it comes to getting them truly tiny, the recent wave of mouse guns have gotten impressively small, and flatter than any revolver ever could. So in a case where you just can't carry a higher powered gun, and a mouse gun means the difference between SOME gun and NO gun, then a semi shines in this area. I myself plan to get one for backup and cases where I might have to dress in a way that doesn't allow carrying my revolver. To say that revolvers serve no practical purpose is rediculous. If anything they're more valid than ever as need arises for powerful, reliable, and easy to use weapons as more and more Americans choose to practice their 2nd amendment rights.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Walking-dead » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:01 am

That's a good question. It's the same question as is there a place for a shotgun in the same scenario? I'll be keeping my .357 and 12 guage at the ready. I don't think they are necessarily more reliable these days as the semi auto is just fine in that respect. Where I do see them being beneficial is absolute stopping power and what do you do with a semi auto with a broken magazine? I'll tell you. You run! I don't see any reason to have either a revolver or shotgun as a primary weapon but there is no reason to leave them in a box under the bed either. On a side note a .357 revolver that takes moon clips can generally shoot .357 magnum, 38 special, 9mm Luger, 38 super, 9mm makarov and 380 ammo. Tell me what auto is more versital in a SHTF scenario?
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:00 pm

Walking-dead wrote:That's a good question. It's the same question as is there a place for a shotgun in the same scenario? I'll be keeping my .357 and 12 guage at the ready. I don't think they are necessarily more reliable these days as the semi auto is just fine in that respect. Where I do see them being beneficial is absolute stopping power and what do you do with a semi auto with a broken magazine? I'll tell you. You run! I don't see any reason to have either a revolver or shotgun as a primary weapon but there is no reason to leave them in a box under the bed either. On a side note a .357 revolver that takes moon clips can generally shoot .357 magnum, 38 special, 9mm Luger, 38 super, 9mm makarov and 380 ammo. Tell me what auto is more versital in a SHTF scenario?

A G17 or G19 with the appropriate stock of ammo.

Here's my take on things:
1. Ammo versatility is mostly bullshit. Either you have the ammo now, or you failed to prep.
2. SHTF=/=PAW
3. A revolver has a place, sure. An SA revolver with a long barrel and good loads is a great hunting handgun. A Rifle can fill that role just as well. A semi-auto with a 10-20 round capacity and greater concealability has a place as well. I've seen Glocks used to hunt, and revolvers used to CCW. I personally don't see a revolver as a "do all" gun that's gonna be a sidearm, game-taker, and HD gun all in one. I don't see a semi-auto being that either.

FOR ME: semi-auto gets the nod for CCW duties. I don't care about being able to scrounge/trade for inferior or various ammo types, not do I plan to hunt with a pistol when I have five rifles that can do that just fine. I could fashion a scenario that makes a revolver the king, but that's fantasy, and gator don't paly no shit.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Walking-dead » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:25 pm

Your correct in saying there is no do all handgun. All Im saying is an auto without a magazine is worthless and a gun without ammo is the same.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby PistolPete » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:43 pm

let's knock offer the name-calling and stay on topic please.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby mr. right-wing » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:00 am

Revolvers I prefer for pocket carry, you can shoot more than once through a Pocket at close distance with one....my most recent topic is my 649 I just picked up. It will do its job in my pocket, for anything else semi autos are king...
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby mr. right-wing » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:20 am

Btw...my sig p226 has only had one malfunction in over 10000 rounds and it was with a magazine older than me...carried by my dad in his 20 year carry 226 with over 30000 rounds. My glock 29 has never malfunctioned in over a thousand. Hell...my smith 469 has been dead nuts reliable and it has had the same magazine since 85. Meanwhile my ruger alaskan has locked up on me in less than 20 rounds AFTER a thourough cleaning, and I have a s&w 1917 sitting in the safe right now out of timing
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby JohnnyMayhem » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:59 am

I think that we are forgetting the obvious answer to the speed of reloads with revolvers.

You carry a brace of them.

(just don't argue with this one, I'm using this excuse with my wife on why I need a few more revolvers)
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby MaconCJ7 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:50 am

Revolvers definitely still have their place. I'm not going to argue about their simplicity for the untrained, as that's just stupid in my opinion. If someone feels the need for a gun for self defense, but thinks training with it is beneath them, well, they're dumb and are a risk to themselves and others. Not training means not thinking past a point and shoot mentality.

They still have their place.

Hunting, as has been mentioned. You should be using a rifle if you're actually trying to feed yourself, as it's a better tool, but if that's not an option, a high powered revolver will work just fine.

Cowboy action shooting. It's fun.

For those that are just more comfortable with them.

I prefer an auto for my defense needs, but I also plan for multiple assailants and not having a perfect one shot stop. I'm not worried about my auto's malfunctioning. They don't do it at the range, and I fire at a constant enough pace through enough magazines (of my carry ammo) and don't have an issue. I have had FTF's with cheap ball ammo though. I don't know about them making it through a high-speed class, but that's a different ball of wax altogether.

I won't claim any of my auto's to be any better than any given revolver. I just happen to be very familiar with my capabilities and limitations. I can mag change fast enough. I can't use a speed loader with the same efficiency. I should practice with a speed loader more, but I won't because I don't carry a revolver.

I can see the functional use of either one as a backup to a rifle/shotgun, depending on why you're carrying said long gun. If it's for hunting large mean game, I can see carrying a large revolver capable of taking down said beast in case of rifle failure. If I'm out hunting deer, sidearm is my auto. Capable of what I would expect to encounter in case of rifle failure. It's a backup. It should be able to do what you need it to if your primary fails.

If a matchlock dueling pistol fits that need, by all means, carry it. But you have to wear a pirate hat. And an eye patch. I don't make the rules, just putting them in print.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:14 am

Walking-dead wrote:Your correct in saying there is no do all handgun. All Im saying is an auto without a magazine is worthless and a gun without ammo is the same.

I will acknowledge that not having a magazine turns my autos into single-shot weapons, and that any gun without ammo is a very awkward fist-load (except M9s. Those are hammers.) However, the "but it takes more kinds of boolits" argument is flawed, in that it violates the basic rule of prepping, which is to have it today.

Revolvers do have their uses. I have a hankering for a ten-shooter in .22LR as a plinker. That, however, falls secondary to having more ammo for the guns I picked for "serious" use.

Now, while we're debatig personal preferences, who wants to rehash Lever Vs. Bolt Vs. Semi-auto in rifles? Howabout Pump Shotgun vs. Semi-auto?

i guess what I'm trying to say is that I prefer to stock ammo today for my high-capacity rapid-fire handguns, but I won't grudge anyone their choice.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Walking-dead » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:10 am

"i guess what I'm trying to say is that I prefer to stock ammo today for my high-capacity rapid-fire handguns, but I won't grudge anyone their choice."

I couldn't agree more. And I'll 1st reach for my Sig 9mm before anything else. I have often wondered how some decide between a 1911 and say a S&W 627 though.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby foxx » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:42 am

I think part of prepping is to have a back up plan. What if you do run out of bullets, your house is robbed, you're stranded away from your supplies and preps, or it's 15 years into the PAW, your house burned down?
Something like a .357 magnum, with or without moon clips, can take a variety of calibers. What if you can do some bartering for more ammo, but they don't have your automatic caliber? But, they do have something the moon clips will accept?

I'm all for using auto pistols, but why not have both? My backup to my 9mm auto is a .357 magnum.
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby JesterODX » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:45 am

Like Doc said, SA revolvers are good for hunting. I loved my old Supre Blackhawk. .44 mag with 10.5 inch barrel. If your gonna use a pistol to hunt, that is it. I didnt buy it to hunt with, just for shits and giggles but had a friend that went deer hunting with it.

I felt I shot better with it then anything else I had. It had a good heft and long barrel to keep recoil down. And the trigger break was nice.

Every weapon has strong points and weak points. SA's are no differnet. But they served people very well a hundred plus years ago, in conditions that may well be close to what a PAW turns out to be.


EDIT: Still gonna have plenty of ammo stock piled for my semi auto thou... :D
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:10 am

foxx wrote:I think part of prepping is to have a back up plan. What if you do run out of bullets, your house is robbed, you're stranded away from your supplies and preps, or it's 15 years into the PAW, your house burned down?
Something like a .357 magnum, with or without moon clips, can take a variety of calibers. What if you can do some bartering for more ammo, but they don't have your automatic caliber? But, they do have something the moon clips will accept?

I'm all for using auto pistols, but why not have both? My backup to my 9mm auto is a .357 magnum.

I've always thought that "bartering for ammo" in a PAW was a fallacy. I don't realistically prep for a PAW, and in my fantasy preps I have enough ammo to last me a long time. The rifles cover anything a revolver would cover, and I don't see myself running short of ammo if I've survived for 15 years. I'd rather take up bowhunting or spear hunting and save the ammo, than consider trading for ammo a reliable backup.
My backup for the pistol is an AR, the backup for that an AK, and one I can afford it, I'll have a semi-auto pistol to back that up. if you're gonna get a revolver as a backup gun, why not at least get a DA?
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby foxx » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:51 am

My .357 magnum is a DA, S&W 586. I like shooting it, I like owning it. Since I own it, I try to keep as much ammo as I can afford on hand. When I do get other guns, I also plan on keeping ammo stores for those as well. Till way more money is coming in, I have to consider other long term options.
I have to ask myself, what if I do run out of ammo? In my situation, spending all my current money on ammo is flawed. Having as many options down the road seems like a second best, but that's what I have to do. Maybe reloading is a viable option for long term ammo supplies.

I have to live a balanced life, or try to. Planning and prepping is a part of that, but I just can't know how much ammo I'll need for the rest of my life. How many gun fights will I be in, survive through, I can't see going through 1,000's of rounds out of my .357 magnum in a few years. If so, that's a pretty fucked up world.
I can see going through more 9mm, mine holds 15+1. So, I try to have 2x as many 9mm than .357 mag. OTOH, I only have 4 magazines, so I can only have 60+1 loaded up at any given time. One serious gun fight could use up all that ammo pretty fast.
So, when I think of how much ammo I need, I have to ask myself, how many gun fights could I live through? There's no answer to that, but it reminds me that I need a rifle!
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Re: SHTF- is there a role for SA pistols AND revolvers?

Postby Bearcat » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:53 pm

What weapon I carry is contigent on the SHTF scenario. I can think of two reasons why revolvers, and I mean short barreled revolvers specifically, have a place in a SHTF scenario. The first is practicality. Look at how many Ruger LCR's, S&W bodyguards and similar revolvers have been sold in recent years for CCW. Not everyone takes training courses, even though they should, or shoot on a regular basis to keep their skills up. Using a different platform that they aren't as familiar or comfortable with in a high stress crisis situation, I think, could degrade their capabilities further. Also, not everyone owns holsters for the handguns they don't carry and only shoot at the range. Hell, at the last MilCopp training course, I used an old M9 military holster for my Glock 17.

The second reason is the grey man theory that many preppers abide by. SHTF could be many situations that we all have to respond to accordingly. For those who follow the grey man theory, staying out of sight and being inconspicuous as possible is key. For instance, in a Katrina type scenario with martial law declared, open carrying full sized handguns with chest rigs and a rifle/shotgun in front of government law enforcement agents would not pan out well. At best, your weapons would be confiscated (probably never to be returned) and you could be arrested and/or detained. In that situation I would carry my CCW gun only in hopes of avoiding any confrontation with the national guard or LEO's. I know that there are many semi-autos that are practical for CCW, I carry a glock 36, but my point again goes to the fact that there are many who CCW revolvers.
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