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Little old lady needs a concealed carry .380?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:16 am
by moab
Ok. Its my mother. Don't tell her i said that. ;) She's 76. But acts more like 50 or 60. I mean she's not old and decrepit.

Here's the kicker. She really is little. I'm 6'3". But she's 5'3". And has TINY hands. Strong cause she sews all the time. And works hard at her job stocking shelves. But i need a .380 that is small enough for her to carry.

Any ideas?

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:01 pm
by raptor
Yeah I am going to be that guy.

Does it have to be an auto and in 9mm?

A J frame or Ruger LCR is much easier to load for those with limited dexterity. Now you can get the Ruger LCR in 9mm so if 9mm is a must have it still ticks that box.

You may also look at used tip up barrel Berettas.

That and pre-load them for her is another alternative.

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:07 pm
by woodsghost
And S&W made an auto specifically for folks like your mom. Their .380 Shield EZ.

I'm betting you want caliber consolidation. I would still consider .38, or .380. Or even .32 ACP or .327 Mag. I get she is strong, but what about 10 years from now?

Just some thoughts.

My vote would be one of the Ruger LCRx series of revolvers. Full sized grips and 3 inch barrels. Plus it has been said revolvers tolerate owners who don't clean their guns or put then away in a drawer better than autos do.


Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:19 pm
by Evan the Diplomat
Walther PPK?

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:27 pm
by flybynight
Echo what Raptor and Woodghost said. Revolver. Something like a Smith & Wesson 686 7 shot with three inch barrel shootin 38 special


Best bet though is go gun shopping with her so she can handle the firearms and see if she can rack the slide and such.


You know Makarovs are concealable .don't have a heavy slide and have that nifty little slider tab to pull down the spring and follower to make easier loading.

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:21 pm
by NT2C
I'm going to disagree with the majority here for several reasons:
  • You say she's petite, and that pretty much dictates a nice, flat semi for CCW, rather than a revolver. Revolvers bulge noticeably on slim and slender folks.
  • You emphasize how strong her hands are and that she works stocking shelves, so I see no reason for concern over her ability to rack a slide.
  • She collects to invest. A cheap Ruger or S&W Shield isn't going to interest her.
  • She's been a shooter for a long time, so she would likely have no problem getting proper shot placement with a very small gun.
My recommendation would be for a Kimber Micro 9, maybe even one of the special editions.

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:24 pm
by NT2C
And if your mom doesn't want one I'd just like to point out my birthday is coming up end of this month, I'm not above outright bribery as a mod, and I really like blue. :mrgreen:

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:51 pm
by Stercutus
Whose old? My wife's Grandma is 101 years young, lives on her own and still drives. She packs a 32ACP. Terrible choice for defensive purposes but she has used the same gun for 75 years and nobody wants to get shot. About six years ago she used it to great effect to scare off a would be burglar. Nobody messes with Grandma even at 101.

I'd suggest something really light and light recoiling like the 32 or 25. Meets the rule of "have a gun".

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:53 pm
by flybynight
NT2C wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:24 pm
And if your mom doesn't want one I'd just like to point out my birthday is coming up end of this month, I'm not above outright bribery as a mod, and I really like blue. :mrgreen:
Jeez … go shine your boots Devil mod. :lol:

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:21 pm
by woodsghost
If by "investor" you mean "likes to see her guns appreciate in value" then maybe a Colt 1903 pocket pistol?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Mode ... Hammerless

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:56 pm
by yossarian
How does she plan to carry? What handguns does she currently shoot well?

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:21 pm
by woodsghost
yossarian wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:56 pm
How does she plan to carry? What handguns does she currently shoot well?
Why did you have to go and do that? We could have carried on for 3 more pages!

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:50 pm
by moab
Ya. I just came back to edit my post. Let's definitely say .380. (I never got any notifications of responses. Damnit. When will that issue be fixed?) Not really mad. Just thought we'd fixed that issue with this last big revamp. It's one of the biggest things killing this forum. If you never get any notifications. Why come back? Or least you a whole lot less likely to if you never hear of anyone responding to your posts. Stepping off my soapbox.

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:50 pm
by Stercutus
woodsghost wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:21 pm
yossarian wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:56 pm
How does she plan to carry? What handguns does she currently shoot well?
Why did you have to go and do that? We could have carried on for 3 more pages!
She is never too old to learn. AR + Glock. Sign up for tactical training.

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:56 pm
by moab
NT2C wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:24 pm
And if your mom doesn't want one I'd just like to point out my birthday is coming up end of this month, I'm not above outright bribery as a mod, and I really like blue. :mrgreen:
Just fix my notification problems. lol! ;)

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry 9mm?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:26 pm
by moab
yossarian wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:56 pm
How does she plan to carry? What handguns does she currently shoot well?
Best question on the page. I would think in her purse. She's say...a bit round. And wears her clothes a little tight. (God. She'd kill me if she heard me saying this. Not really. She'd probably laugh.) Unless she has a jacket on. I don't see her carrying OWB and definitely not IWB.

She mainly shoots rifles when she shoots. She's not like an avid shooter. I take her with me from time to time. She shoots my .22lr Beretta 21a pretty well. It's pretty small. I was actually kind of surprised when she asked me. She's never carried before. She has guns in the house obviously. But other than home defense. I've never heard her express a want for a pistol to take with her anywhere.

If she gets this pistol though. She will go to the range and some formal training on a regular basis. I'll see to it. And she'll want to go. She's very safety & training conscious. She's been around guns her entire life. She grew up with them. And my father was a trapper and hunter. But yes, point well made. She does not have a lot of pistol experience. I mean tactical pistol experience. And she needs that if she's going to carry where she wants too. She works in a not so great area North of Seattle WA. Sometimes until 9 or 10pm. (I know. I've tried to get her to stop. But she loves working. And I do think it's good for her. Get's her out. And she does get quite a bit of physical activity out of it.) So I think she wants to carry to work in her purse. (Never thought of the legal or company policies around that. I'll have to look into that. It's a pretty well known conservative company though.) And just around town, shopping and stuff. She lives in a really nice neighborhood. But a lot of the areas that you go to shop are not so great. a lot of druggies on the streets sometimes. I would like her to have something if even just in her car.

In answer to the revolver questions. I think considering how old she is. It might be best to stay away from larger calibers. I had considered a Ladysmith. But I'm just not sure she can handle a .38. I don't know what I was thinking with 9mm. She just asked me a couple hours ago. And suggested that caliber. But it's way out of her league physically I think. I think .380 or maybe even .32 might be good. But at those calibers it really comes down to how small the pistol is. The smaller the better for her I think. And something that doesn't take a great deal of strength to pull the slide or reload the magazines. I mean could you see her on a Glock mag? It would be impossible. Hell it's near impossible for me without some help.

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry .380?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:22 pm
by woodsghost
Regarding revolvers:




My wife has smaller hands. She did not like my S&W 642. The 2 finger grip was not cool and the 148 LRN full power loads were a bit more than she was looking for. She also had not really shot pistols before. I believe wadcutter rounds are often a bit slower and softer even than regular rounds, but she simply was not going to like the .38 snub. She also did not like the long trigger pull. It was roughly 10-12 lbs. These are my wife's experiences, so your mom may be different.

I think for my wife a full sized grip, but small enough to fit her hands, and on a steel framed revolver would have been a more happy experience. That may be something to consider, if your mom wants to purse carry. Getting her a steel framed revolver, maybe a S&W 64 (they are likely cheaper right now) with small grips, a trigger job, and a 3 inch barrel. That would be a very handy package in a purse, but maybe not "tactical." Running wadcutters that would be a very soft shooting package too. But getting her to shoot one first would probably be wise.

Otherwise, a steel framed .380 seems like a great option. My CCW instructor buddy reminds me many people are better served by full sized guns in lighter calibers.

Here is a Beretta Cheeta 84, for your consideration, if thinking about autos. (or whatever their single stack model is. I forget, but maybe she will like the double stack? I don't know.)

http://www.jgsales.com/beretta-84-cheet ... 02333.html

Some Bersas might also work.

But I don't want to push too hard in any directions. Maybe getting some rentals would be good? I just wanted to share my wife's experience. And say those .327 Mags are nothing to sneeze at.

....and leave you with some ideas....

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Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry .380?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:56 pm
by NT2C
I'm still going to say the Kimber Micro 9, but with low recoil self-defense loads. If that's not an option then the S&W M&P .380 EZ would be my next suggestion.

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry .380?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:05 pm
by raptor
Woodghost has some good suggestions above. I second the use of wadcutters for SD where recoil is an issue. The Lucky Gunner tests showed several such rounds in .38 spl that perform well.

Now I had baked my recommendations on the need for a small CCW. But since we are talking purse carry I would expand my suggestions to include a Ruger SP 101 with a 3 inch barrel in either .357 (but loaded with was cutters or other .38 spl) or .327 magnum rounds.

The other Ruger to consider is the LC380. Not the LCP in .380 but the larger LC.380. This is basically the larger LC9 in .380 caliber.



Honestly though take her some place that rents firearms and she what she likes and more importantly see what she can shoot well.

For the record my wife carries a Ruger Security 6 in her purse and prefers the larger grip despite having small hands. BTW she also carries a J frame in a pouch for those times when a purse is not appropriate. She prefers and can hit well with these loads in both firearms.

I really have misgivings about off body carry, but as has been noted at least you have a firearm. The same with wadcutters. There are better loads but if that is what you prefer for recoil and can hit with them, it beats the hell out of yelling for help.

BTW my mother carried a Baby Browning vest pistol until her death at 93.

Never mess with the women in my family. They do not use whistles to summon help. :wink:

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry .380?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:06 pm
by yossarian
That Beretta that you already have and that she already shoots well would do alright as long as you stuck with Stingers or the like. Don't misconstrue that as an argument for the efficacy of .22LR as a defensive round. The Beretta Tomcat, essentially the same gun in .32ACP is another fair choice. Better ballistics and a used one will hold its value.

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry .380?

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:42 am
by flybynight

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry .380?

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:35 pm
by moab
Good selection. Thank you. I had forgotten about the p64. As my head was all up in PAW rounds that would be accessible. Ill have her hold one of those. And see how she likes it. I was actually thinking also a Beretta Tomcat in .32 acp. Seem to be sold out at the moment. But they were going for 350 six months ago. And i know her tiny hands can handle it. Cause she shoots my Beretta 21a in .22lr. And its about the same frame. Just a nicer trigger guard.

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry .380?

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:47 pm
by raptor
moab wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:35 pm
Good selection. Thank you. I had forgotten about the p64. As my head was all up in PAW rounds that would be accessible. Ill have her hold one of those. And see how she likes it. I was actually thinking also a Beretta Tomcat in .32 acp. Seem to be sold out at the moment. But they were going for 350 six months ago. And i know her tiny hands can handle it. Cause she shoots my Beretta 21a in .22lr. And its about the same frame. Just a nicer trigger guard.
Just a note the P-64's DA trigger pull can be helped a lot with a simple hammer spring replacement.
https://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?pa ... D=1&mID=49

Re: Little old lady needs a concealed carry .380?

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:07 pm
by JeeperCreeper
I didn't read all the replies... BUTTTT...

I'd vote S&W 380EZ or maybe the Bersa Thunder in .380

If 9mm, not doubt I'd go Walther CCP (now in gen2) with it's "softcoil" gas recoil system.