Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by flybynight » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:15 pm

Yea finding them really won't be too hard. I was just too lazy to look far. I've read some cz-75 mags fit this gun also ( plus certain witness models) If I pull the trigger on that sar though I'll have to find some. Is yours the 9mm or .45? Also is it the full size or compact? I know you mentioned cc 'n it.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by yossarian » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:25 pm

Are there any other CZ type mags that fit? Witness, Springfield P9 etc.?

The Star and the Beretta are surplus pistols, the price will go up as the supply dries up, its a question of how much. But it will go up.

The SAR and the Creed are cheap pistols. They may be good cheap pistols but as soon as you take it out of the box it's a used cheap pistol. Also, the Creed looks like a Hi-point.

Do you want a surplus pistol that will increase at least a little in value but have diminishing availability of mags and parts or do you want a low cost current production pistol that will initially depreciate but will have some factory support and parts availability?

Did I mention the Creed looks like a Hi-point?

ETA: Flybynight answered my first question.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by NT2C » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:39 pm

moab wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:01 pm
That Walther has me thinking for sure. Are there any generalizations to be made - all metal pistol vs polymer and metal pistol? Do either go thru parts any faster? Longevity? One thing for sure is I would think a polymer pistol would hold up better in storage. Less to rust. Better coating on metal. It's new and not used. Comes with 2 mags. Has white dot sights. Not night sights. But an upgrade from the Star. (Damn it! Now I have to start all over! lol! Damn you guys!) ;)

I'm learly of those other brands. For parts and longevity sake. Like how long will they be around? How hard will it be to find parts? I wouldn't think Walther is going away anytime soon. This just put a big kink in my decisions. For the good though. Looking for reviews now.
The SAR pistols are not delicate little safe queens that need to be pampered. They're solid firearms that can take abuse and are intended as "working" sidearms for military and law enforcement.

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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by NT2C » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:43 pm

flybynight wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:15 pm
Yea finding them really won't be too hard. I was just too lazy to look far. I've read some cz-75 mags fit this gun also ( plus certain witness models) If I pull the trigger on that sar though I'll have to find some. Is yours the 9mm or .45? Also is it the full size or compact? I know you mentioned cc 'n it.
You can modify some CZ mags (possibly even Beretta mags too if I remember correctly) to fit them. You'll basically have to put mag release slots in the right place with a Dremel. You may lose the "last round slide hold open" but they can be made to work if that's all you have.

Mine is the full sized 9mm and I regularly CCW it under a shirt or jacket.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:41 pm

NT2C wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:43 pm
flybynight wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:15 pm
Yea finding them really won't be too hard. I was just too lazy to look far. I've read some cz-75 mags fit this gun also ( plus certain witness models) If I pull the trigger on that sar though I'll have to find some. Is yours the 9mm or .45? Also is it the full size or compact? I know you mentioned cc 'n it.
You can modify some CZ mags (possibly even Beretta mags too if I remember correctly) to fit them. You'll basically have to put mag release slots in the right place with a Dremel. You may lose the "last round slide hold open" but they can be made to work if that's all you have.

Mine is the full sized 9mm and I regularly CCW it under a shirt or jacket.
My SAR B6 and B6p will run CZ75 mags as well as other clones. The Jericho FS and Compact, SAR, Tristar/canik clones will all run the other's mags. I've heard reports of the EAA as well.

As far as the Creed, I have the PPX. Amazing shooter, but looks like a HiPoint and will only have value if the world comes to an end and someone desperately needs a firearm.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by moab » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:49 pm

So the Walther Creed for $269 new. With 2 - 15x mags. White dot sights - not tritium but a lot better than black. 1" shorter and 7oz lighter than the Beretta 92s. Hard to pass on this. For my intended purposes. Plastic won't rust. And the metal is coated with Tenifer. So they'll probably hold up in storage a lot better. That grip seems smaller hand friendly. At least medium hand friendly. And parts shouldn't be an issue. If i stock up on obvious ones now.

Anyone have opinions on hand size as it relates to these?

I want to seriously thank all of you that have stuck with this thread. And continued to give great advice. I think the extra $60 is way worth it. Even if you take into account the extra mag that brings the price difference down to a half or a third less. So for $30-$40 it seems like a no brainer. I can also get behind the Walther brand. I feel much more confident with Walther than the Star. Can't hate on the Beretta. My side piece is a Beretta in .22lr. But the 92s is just not for me. Just to big and bulky. But this Walther seems like the ticket.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:06 pm

The Walther lends itself to a good grip for most hands. I have the PPX, basically the Gen1 of the Creed. I have L/XL hands, it fits great. The ladies in my family have S/M hands and it fits them.

The slide is also very very easy to rack, lending itself to be shootable by anyone.

The trigger is good, but breaks in to be great. It is a precocked DAO without a second strike capability. Basically, it is a nice striker feel... better than a Glock but not as nice as a PPQ or VP9.

The mags rattle when loaded. And it is kinda ugly.

But other than that, that's the run down. If you are looking new, I'd have a hard time picking between the Sarsilmaz CZ clones or the Creed. Both are great. Their price makes them stellar.

I do think the SAR takes the cake as it uses CZ mags and is more streamlined. But if you like striker guns, the Creed is more similar to that form factor.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by NT2C » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:35 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:06 pm
The Walther lends itself to a good grip for most hands. I have the PPX, basically the Gen1 of the Creed. I have L/XL hands, it fits great. The ladies in my family have S/M hands and it fits them.

The slide is also very very easy to rack, lending itself to be shootable by anyone.

The trigger is good, but breaks in to be great. It is a precocked DAO without a second strike capability. Basically, it is a nice striker feel... better than a Glock but not as nice as a PPQ or VP9.

The mags rattle when loaded. And it is kinda ugly.

But other than that, that's the run down. If you are looking new, I'd have a hard time picking between the Sarsilmaz CZ clones or the Creed. Both are great. Their price makes them stellar.

I do think the SAR takes the cake as it uses CZ mags and is more streamlined. But if you like striker guns, the Creed is more similar to that form factor.
If he lived anywhere near me I'd invite him to try my SAR at the range.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by moab » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:36 am

[/quote]

If he lived anywhere near me I'd invite him to try my SAR at the range.
[/quote]

I wish you did too. I watched a bunch of vids on it last night. And now I'm a little torn between the Creed and the SAR.

I saw that torture test on the SAR. That was pretty good. But not sure how to use that in a comparison of the Creed. Although i have read about a few FTDs on the creed with different ammo. That SAR looks indestructible. One less mag.

But what's your guys take on comparison of the two? I tried to find a review directly comparing them to each other. But no luck.

PS - Please take a glance at my other firearm thread. My mother. One of the best shots i know. And a gun collector of sorts. Wants a conceal carry in 9mm for someone with tiny hands. She also collects to invest. So she probably won't be into anything cheap. She's is also my prepping buddy. Only person left in the family that still remembers the effects of the great depression on people. She teaches me a lot. Canning. Sewing. How to stretch hides. My father was a trapper the first several years of my life. She was in charge of fur. My father was in charge of getting it. A pretty amazing woman. And one of the few who doesn't look at me crazy when i prep. She's down with anything prepping or firearm related. She's a young 74. More like 54. But man she has tiny hands. viewtopic.php?f=110&t=121816
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by flybynight » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:04 pm

Even if a second mag cost forty b ucks ,that still is the same price as the Creed. But I think you are going to find mags for 25 or less.

I think the Creed is more intuitive. Load the mag, rack the slide. Holster till needed, pull the trigger. It's DAO the safety is your mind.

The SAR requires the application of a safety . So if you're outfitting persons with little firearms experience , the Creed might be a better choice. The Creed is smaller and I think lighter .


I dunno kinda torn on the two. But I'd probably go with the SAR for myself. If I was buying for my wife or daughters , the Creed
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by NT2C » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:59 pm

flybynight wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:04 pm
Even if a second mag cost forty b ucks ,that still is the same price as the Creed. But I think you are going to find mags for 25 or less.

I think the Creed is more intuitive. Load the mag, rack the slide. Holster till needed, pull the trigger. It's DAO the safety is your mind.

The SAR requires the application of a safety . So if you're outfitting persons with little firearms experience , the Creed might be a better choice. The Creed is smaller and I think lighter .


I dunno kinda torn on the two. But I'd probably go with the SAR for myself. If I was buying for my wife or daughters , the Creed
When I carry the B6P it's always hammer down on a live round (firing pin interlock) with the safety on. Almost everything I qualified on in the military had a safety so I got in the habit of flicking it off to shoot and prefer having one on a carry gun. This makes that first shot DA with a pretty stiff trigger. Could you carry it with the safety off? Sure. With that interlock on the firing pin it's drop-safe and it would be really hard to ND it with that heavy DA trigger. That puts it on even footing with the Creed I think.

I know you're not that close to me moab, but approximately where are you? Maybe someone else on here is close enough to let you try theirs.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by NT2C » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:06 pm

moab wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:36 am

If he lived anywhere near me I'd invite him to try my SAR at the range.
I wish you did too. I watched a bunch of vids on it last night. And now I'm a little torn between the Creed and the SAR.

I saw that torture test on the SAR. That was pretty good. But not sure how to use that in a comparison of the Creed. Although i have read about a few FTDs on the creed with different ammo. That SAR looks indestructible. One less mag.

But what's your guys take on comparison of the two? I tried to find a review directly comparing them to each other. But no luck.

PS - Please take a glance at my other firearm thread. My mother. One of the best shots i know. And a gun collector of sorts. Wants a conceal carry in 9mm for someone with tiny hands. She also collects to invest. So she probably won't be into anything cheap. She's is also my prepping buddy. Only person left in the family that still remembers the effects of the great depression on people. She teaches me a lot. Canning. Sewing. How to stretch hides. My father was a trapper the first several years of my life. She was in charge of fur. My father was in charge of getting it. A pretty amazing woman. And one of the few who doesn't look at me crazy when i prep. She's down with anything prepping or firearm related. She's a young 74. More like 54. But man she has tiny hands. viewtopic.php?f=110&t=121816
Is there any compelling reason why you couldn't have one of each? (Or two, three, whatever number you're looking for)

You said that these would pretty much be loaner guns in the PAW and if you're starting from new instead of used (with who knows how many rounds through them) then so long as both have a good reputation for reliability you shouldn't need to be really worried about stocking parts beyond maybe an extractor and some spare mags. Heck, just buy one of each for now and see which you like better, sell the other one and buy more of what you like.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by moab » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:41 pm

I'm in CA. For a little less than 6 months. Until we relocate to WA. Were making a family decision on this. And then my mother does all the buying. As she keeps the arsenal until we've moved. And i can make all the necessary legal transfers. I started shipping all my guns north a couple years ago. Once CA went haywire and started outlawing everything. I can't take living here any longer. Actually wanted to leave for a long time. But business was good.

Almost every gun I've ever built or owned has been legally transferred to her up north. I've moved much of my firearm business out of state as well. Had to hire an atty just to help handle it all. And make sure everything was legal. CA makes it very hard for gun owners and firearm related business'.

So hopefully in a few months I'll be able to walk into any number of LGSs and try things out. And then order on my federal firearm license. Not to mention go shoot on my own. And not at any anally run gun range. Oh how I miss the gravel pit in Darrington!

Where were moving to in WA has a really nice rifle range. But well see. Personnel can mess up a perfectly good range. I enjoy meeting people. But when test firing and sighting in and just making different things work. I much prefer to be alone. Or with someone of like mind.

But I don't want us to miss out on these summer sales. I seem to do most of my buying in the summer. Maybe that's just happenstance. But i seem to get a lot more bang for my buck this time of year.

I think the comments about the Walther being right for a wider range of people is true. I think for this objective I'm leaning towards the Walther.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by emclean » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:30 am

yossarian wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:25 pm
Did I mention the Creed looks like a Hi-point?
wait, the Walther Cree looks like a hi-point to you?
moab wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:36 am
PS - Please take a glance at my other firearm thread. My mother. One of the best shots i know. And a gun collector of sorts. Wants a conceal carry in 9mm for someone with tiny hands. She also collects to invest. So she probably won't be into anything cheap. She's is also my prepping buddy. Only person left in the family that still remembers the effects of the great depression on people. She teaches me a lot. Canning. Sewing. How to stretch hides. My father was a trapper the first several years of my life. She was in charge of fur. My father was in charge of getting it. A pretty amazing woman. And one of the few who doesn't look at me crazy when i prep. She's down with anything prepping or firearm related. She's a young 74. More like 54. But man she has tiny hands. viewtopic.php?f=110&t=121816
take a look at the Walther CCP. It's gas-delayed blowback means there is a lighter return spring on the pistol, so it is easer to rack.
haven't had one in my hands yet, but am looking at them for my wife who has to work to racking most pistols.

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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by NT2C » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:04 pm

And... to further add to your choices and dilemma, I got notice about this in today's email:

Taurus G2C 9mm, Black- 12 + 1 W / 2 Mags - Model G2C93112 for $189.99
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by moab » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:13 pm

NT2C wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:04 pm
And... to further add to your choices and dilemma, I got notice about this in today's email:

Taurus G2C 9mm, Black- 12 + 1 W / 2 Mags - Model G2C93112 for $189.99
That's a legit contender. But for trade purposes I'd bet the Walther name would trump the Taurus name. For the price tho. Its a good throw away in a cache contender.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by RunNhyd18 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:11 am

Hi point c9, 9mm. $159.99 (new), mags cost $20-$25. Mossberg Maverick 88 (12 Ga pump), 18.5 inch barrel, 8 lbs. $189.99
This is a Hi Point 9mm, cheapest handgun known to man. Maybe it will fire, maybe it won't. So, you gotta ask yourself one question, do you feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by TheContractor » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:15 pm

I have read through some of this thread and decided to go ahead and throw in my opinion.

If I was looking for some guns to buy now - that I could use for PAW barter, supplying allies, etc. later on. I would definitely not go with milsurp, older production foreign guns, or new production low tier budget guns. I would look at the police trade in market. I have recently seen Smith & Wesson M&P's for as low as $235 and Glocks for around $250. In some circumstance that will likely get you a .40 versus a 9mm but it will also get you a high quality, rugged, and durable handgun that might look well used but has not come even close to being more than 20% of the way through it's lifespan. As these are two of the most popular duty guns, spare parts, holsters, and magazines will be readily available. They are also fairly simple in design and do not require special tools or gunsmith training to work on.

In my bug out bag I have a police trade in M&P 40 with both a .40 and 9mm conversion barrel and a basic spare parts kit. It gives me a dual caliber pistol that cost me less than $330 total including a used conversion barrel, holster, and magazines. You can do the same thing with Glock for around the same price.

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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by reyes » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:09 pm

the pistol needs to fit in a pocket holster, for shtf, especially. Out of the elements, out of sight, out of the way of the pack harness, hip belt, and accessible. Kahr's CM9 is where it's at. You can find them for $350, brand new. I'd not be trading guns. .22lr, ammo, MAYBE, silencers for .22's, maybe, but more likely, IF I barter at all, it will be with replacable stuff, food, skins, wooden crafted items, leather, recovered boots, clothing, etc. Not irreplacable stuff that I'm nearly certain to need myself. Why would they trade with you when they can just kill you and take all your stuff? People are likely to be carrying contagious diseases, too. So you'd better use signs, flags, signal arrows, and dead drops, to avoid the risks of actual contact. It only takes one person, one time, less than one second, to kill you. You can't risk it. Tiny hands mean glocks, all double stacks, and all DA's are out. Look at the (later, not early) models of Sig's P938. I bet, however, that she'll have to settle for Sig's P238 380, due to recoil control issues in those tiny 9mm's. I've seen the Star Bm's for $160 somewhere. Probably J and G sales, Sarco, somebody like that, altho gunsmerica.com , gunbroker, and Bud's Guns often have decent prices, especially Bud's. The star's trigger can be cut back at least 3/8" for those with small hands.

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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by woodsghost » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:18 am

reyes wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:09 pm
...MAYBE, silencers for .22's, ...
I think you made some very good points. One thing I'll mention is our forum rules state "no discussing illegal activity." I get that in a PAW, laws will likely change and will likely reflect whatever government or strong man happened to gain power in that local area. Also, we have an international audience and recognize that in some countries, making silencers is fully legal. Currently the manufacture of silencers is pretty heavily restricted in the US. We often phrase things here like "depending on the laws at the time, maybe making silencers for .22's..." I don't know if you want to take that into consideration or not.

Great point about disease! I had not thought about that and how it might affect trading.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by moab » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:09 am

reyes wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:09 pm
the pistol needs to fit in a pocket holster, for shtf, especially. Out of the elements, out of sight, out of the way of the pack harness, hip belt, and accessible. Kahr's CM9 is where it's at. You can find them for $350, brand new. I'd not be trading guns. .22lr, ammo, MAYBE, silencers for .22's, maybe, but more likely, IF I barter at all, it will be with replacable stuff, food, skins, wooden crafted items, leather, recovered boots, clothing, etc. Not irreplacable stuff that I'm nearly certain to need myself. Why would they trade with you when they can just kill you and take all your stuff? People are likely to be carrying contagious diseases, too. So you'd better use signs, flags, signal arrows, and dead drops, to avoid the risks of actual contact. It only takes one person, one time, less than one second, to kill you. You can't risk it. Tiny hands mean glocks, all double stacks, and all DA's are out. Look at the (later, not early) models of Sig's P938. I bet, however, that she'll have to settle for Sig's P238 380, due to recoil control issues in those tiny 9mm's. I've seen the Star Bm's for $160 somewhere. Probably J and G sales, Sarco, somebody like that, altho gunsmerica.com , gunbroker, and Bud's Guns often have decent prices, especially Bud's. The star's trigger can be cut back at least 3/8" for those with small hands.
reyes - I wasn't planning on trading with strangers. My family/bug out group is made of people with varying degrees of interest in prepping. More than likely these guns will go to them. If I did need to trade for some important item. It would be with shirttail relatives or associates. And not strangers. But disease points well taken. And drops etc. I do not want to open a trade booth in the local bizarre. lol.

thecontractor - I agree about glocks. I'm a diehard glock fan. But small hands (the majority of these will probably go to women) and the availability of .40 in a PAW has me concerned enough to limit my collecting of those. I try to stick to 5.56, 7.62, .308, 30.06, 9mm, .22lr and shotgun ammo in my preps. Those are some of most widely produced and available ammo out there. (there's a great thread on here someplace with production numbers and weights) In your position though. There is probably still a large stock of .40 laying around your police station. SO it would be a good buy for you. I agree. Those police trade in's might be worn a lot. But from holstering more than firing. And probably have the majority of their life left in them. I also like your idea of swapping out used barrels for 9mm. I could do that too. And might do that for any of these I think might end up in a hand the size that could handle it. The only ones I've seen in the $250 range tho were .45 ACP IIRC. Can you swap a 9mm barrel in those?
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RickOShea
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by RickOShea » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:33 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:18 am
reyes wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:09 pm
...MAYBE, silencers for .22's, ...
Great point about disease! I had not thought about that and how it might affect trading.
LOL, really? Ol' Zantra used to talk all the time about staying away from people, cause they'd probably be carrying something contagious.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by woodsghost » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:02 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:33 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:18 am
reyes wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:09 pm
...MAYBE, silencers for .22's, ...
Great point about disease! I had not thought about that and how it might affect trading.
LOL, really? Ol' Zantra used to talk all the time about staying away from people, cause they'd probably be carrying something contagious.
I figured "crazy" is contagious so I didn't read his garbage.
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Re: Best cheap 9mm for PAW trade? Star BM 9mm for $200?

Post by TheContractor » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:55 pm

moab wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:09 am
There is probably still a large stock of .40 laying around your police station. SO it would be a good buy for you. I agree. Those police trade in's might be worn a lot. But from holstering more than firing. And probably have the majority of their life left in them. I also like your idea of swapping out used barrels for 9mm. I could do that too. And might do that for any of these I think might end up in a hand the size that could handle it. The only ones I've seen in the $250 range tho were .45 ACP IIRC. Can you swap a 9mm barrel in those?
I personally don't care for Glock's grip angle or bizarre not-for-humans shape either, which is why I tend to buy M&P's. But you can't argue with Glock's reliability or build quality. I am also not a fan of .40sw but many PD's still issue it and have piles of it on hand. Since some PD's and the civilian market has moved back to 9mm there are also huge stockpiles of .40 sitting on dealers shelves and in warehouses. So I would submit that it is much more prolific than people think. One of my local places to buy ammo seems to always have .40 on sale or clearance, sometimes at prices well below 9mm just to get it moving. I picked up 2 cases of old stock (like 3-4 years old) .40 Federal JHP's for $165 a case last spring, just to add to the preps. That's not much more than price of steel cased 9mm FMJ.

Few .45's can be converted to 9mm, but there are tons of police trades out there. Here are some of the places I buy from. You also have to watch their sales to get the best deals.


https://recoilgunworks.com/police-trade ... c-132.html

https://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=8406

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore ... d-firearms

https://www.kingsfirearmsonline.com/pages/usedguns

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