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Post by NT2C » Sat May 27, 2017 2:03 am

Mods, please L&B
Last edited by NT2C on Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by Barr » Sat May 27, 2017 8:27 am

Always carried with as my mags full, and I never had to let the mag springs rest unless they were going into range use only status.

Will the springs eventually crap out when compressed sure they will, but for me that's taken many years, case in point my grandfather and I loaded up 7 rnd colt 1911 mags for a range trip back in 95 and we left one mag fully loaded when we were done and my grandfather put it back in the safe, fast forward to 2015 and my grandparents move to a new place and I get my grandfather to open up and let me check on his pistols, the one mag we left fully loaded 20 years before was just beginning to start that downward slide into spring failure, but he still uses it when he goes to the range once a year.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by raptor » Sat May 27, 2017 9:22 am

For my CCW I always carry with one in the chamber and a full magazine. I also carry a pistol that holds only 6+1 so I want every round. I also test my pool of CCW magazines routinely when I go to the range.

Magazines are consumables. They wear out and must be replaced timely. That said each design has different wear points. It could be the lips, the spring or even other areas that cause a magazine to become a problem.

There is and always will be a lot debate about this subject. That said the issue of spring wear frequently boils down to the question of compression and whether or not it causes more wear fully or lightly compressed.

The magazine spring is always under some level of compression even if the magazine is empty.

The other thing to bear in mind is that one key wear moment on metal springs is when they are in motion, i.e. loading or unloading the magazine either by hand or through the operation of the firearm. When the spring is in the process of being compressed or decompressed it is subject to flexing and hence metal fatigue and wear.

If you think about it many springs on pistols are constantly being compressed even with the pistol empty and unused. For instance the recoil spring, trigger springs and so on.

Modern metallurgy allows these springs to have a long life either compressed fully or decompressed.

In short I believe that any wear that occurs to a modern magazine spring is by and large caused by loading it or unloading it, i.e. working it. The wear to the spring IMO caused by compression has been built into the engineering requirement for the spring spec and is nominal.

Going back to your Navy example this may (or may not) explain why they wanted only 5 rounds loaded to reduce the wear and tear from loading and unloading them.

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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by Stercutus » Sat May 27, 2017 10:37 am

That Navy policy was bullshit. Don't know where they came up with it but it would actually be worse to go with a partly loaded magazine if you were worried about the spring weakening (which it won't unless you shoot and reload it a bunch, which you aren't). I have a feeling it had less to do with the easily replaceable magazine and more to do with the comfort level of the Captain.

I have carried three magazines loaded fully every day for years that function flawlessly when I use them every 3-4 months. Also S&W BTW. Same with 100s of thousands of others.

So fully load both magazine. The Shield is a +1 gun so fully loaded, and +1. That gives you 14 rounds. Depending upon how you carry I'd have the larger magazine loaded and inserted.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by NT2C » Sat May 27, 2017 11:31 am

Stercutus wrote:That Navy policy was bullshit. Don't know where they came up with it but it would actually be worse to go with a partly loaded magazine if you were worried about the spring weakening (which it won't unless you shoot and reload it a bunch, which you aren't). I have a feeling it had less to do with the easily replaceable magazine and more to do with the comfort level of the Captain.
This was not just at a single command, so I believe it was Navy-wide at the time. This is how we did it in boot (both during qualification and when I worked in the base armory during service week), it's how we did it in my A school in Great Lakes, and how we did it aboard ship under two different COs.

That being said, there's a lot of things the Navy did that were wrong, stupid or both back then. :lol:

Edit: I should also note that this was not the policy with our mags for the M3, the M1928A1, or the M14 (we didn't get the M16 until after I was out), though we never loaded a 50 round drum until the day we planned to use them.
Last edited by NT2C on Sat May 27, 2017 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by Halfapint » Sat May 27, 2017 11:34 am

I run my mags full, I thought about it and figured if those tiny springs in my firearm can be compressed for most their life. My mag springs should be able to survive a while being compressed. Does anyone know if JUST the springs can be replaced? I've looked my AR mags because I have some older ones from military and I wanted to get those springs replaced, I've also looked for my springfield mags as well but cant seem to find them.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by RonnyRonin » Sat May 27, 2017 11:51 am

I will confess I often end up running -one simply out of laziness as it gives me an option to transport the gun condition 3 occasionally. My main CCW gun is full up 90% of the time, but every now and then the extra round wanders off if I have to unload it. Having a spare magazine around is a far bigger concern to me then having 16 instead of 15 on board, but the spring is the furthest thing from my mind in all this.

I keep all other guns condition 3 all the time, but they are all fully loaded magazines. while I haven't researched it much I have been told compression cycles are the determining factor in spring life and not resting compressed.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by RickOShea » Sat May 27, 2017 12:35 pm

Halfapint wrote:I run my mags full, I thought about it and figured if those tiny springs in my firearm can be compressed for most their life. My mag springs should be able to survive a while being compressed. Does anyone know if JUST the springs can be replaced? I've looked my AR mags because I have some older ones from military and I wanted to get those springs replaced, I've also looked for my springfield mags as well but cant seem to find them.

http://shop.springerprecision.com/categ ... tegoryId=4

https://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20 ... D60/dID442

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifl ... 41777.aspx

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifl ... 71742.aspx
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by Stercutus » Sat May 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Halfapint wrote:I run my mags full, I thought about it and figured if those tiny springs in my firearm can be compressed for most their life. My mag springs should be able to survive a while being compressed. Does anyone know if JUST the springs can be replaced? I've looked my AR mags because I have some older ones from military and I wanted to get those springs replaced, I've also looked for my springfield mags as well but cant seem to find them.
Yes, but if your feed lips are worn or damaged replacing the springs will do you no good. Followers occasionally get damaged in a way that can interrupt loading but this is more rare.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by Halfapint » Sat May 27, 2017 1:20 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Halfapint wrote:I run my mags full, I thought about it and figured if those tiny springs in my firearm can be compressed for most their life. My mag springs should be able to survive a while being compressed. Does anyone know if JUST the springs can be replaced? I've looked my AR mags because I have some older ones from military and I wanted to get those springs replaced, I've also looked for my springfield mags as well but cant seem to find them.
Yes, but if your feed lips are worn or damaged replacing the springs will do you no good. Followers occasionally get damaged in a way that can interrupt loading but this is more rare.
Good point, I have checked over the lips and they look to be in good shape. don't even see any wear on them at all. The 2 mags I keep loaded with defensive ammo rarely get used. I do check them about every 2 months to make sure the springs are in good shape. but they don't get used other in and out of the mag well.

The range mags are used about once a week or once ever 2 weeks and they still show VERY little wear.

Thanks RickOShea for the links! I don't know why I hadn't really found anything. Apparently my google-foo was weak at the time I was looking for it!
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by MacAttack » Sat May 27, 2017 9:40 pm

Full plus one, plus another in the chamber.

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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by NT2C » Sun May 28, 2017 12:15 am

MacAttack wrote:Full plus one, plus another in the chamber.
How do you manage that? :?
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by Stercutus » Sun May 28, 2017 8:35 am

KJ4VOV wrote:
MacAttack wrote:Full plus one, plus another in the chamber.
How do you manage that? :?
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by LowKey » Sun May 28, 2017 8:47 am

It's not if you store them full or empty that has anything to do with the springs wearing out.
It's the cycles of loading and unloading/firing that it goes through that eventually wears out the springs.
With normal use you'll damage the feed lips or magazine body by accident or abuse long before you wear out the spring as long as you don't do stupid things like trying to stretch the spring out past it's set.


BTW, "full plus one, plus another in the chamber" most likely equals "magazine full to OEM capacity plus one extra round due to a +1 round expansion magazine butt-plate, plus one in the chamber". They sell after market magazine but plates that will expand the capacity by one to two rounds for some pistol magazines.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by NT2C » Sun May 28, 2017 9:01 am

LowKey wrote: BTW, "full plus one, plus another in the chamber" most likely equals "magazine full to OEM capacity plus one extra round due to a +1 round expansion magazine butt-plate, plus one in the chamber". They sell after market magazine but plates that will expand the capacity by one to two rounds for some pistol magazines.
Ah, yes, I'd forgotten they make those. :oops:
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by jor-el » Sun May 28, 2017 8:31 pm

Wolf gun springs makes replacement springs for nearly all magazines. Other sources make chrome silicon springs for even more longevity.
Most of my service pistols have a dozen mags each and numbered.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by The Twizzler » Mon May 29, 2017 6:46 pm

All my mags are kept fully loaded except form the CZ-75-P-07-Duty ( I really dislike the name). The manual says it holds 16 rounds , the magazines say 16 rounds, the mags even have a witness hole for the 16th round.
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The magazines hold 15 rounds.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by Phoenix David » Mon May 29, 2017 7:58 pm

I have one pistol that with a full magazine I would have to seat the magazine with more force then I would like to on a slide forward reload, so I keep 1 less in them and no issues

The rest are loaded to the mechanical capacity of the magazine.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by NT2C » Mon May 29, 2017 8:39 pm

The Twizzler wrote:All my mags are kept fully loaded except form the CZ-75-P-07-Duty ( I really dislike the name). The manual says it holds 16 rounds , the magazines say 16 rounds, the mags even have a witness hole for the 16th round.
All Lies!!!!
The magazines hold 15 rounds.
I have three magazines, all OEM for the same gun, all identical on the outside, all with witness marks at 15, two will hold 16, the third holds 17.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by The Twizzler » Mon May 29, 2017 9:16 pm

Well, Hello Mr. Fancy Pants. :)
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by Stercutus » Mon May 29, 2017 9:46 pm

jor-el wrote:Wolf gun springs makes replacement springs for nearly all magazines. Other sources make chrome silicon springs for even more longevity.
Most of my service pistols have a dozen mags each and numbered.
Easier to spot problem mags.
I need to get around to numbering my mags. I keep saying I am going to do it and then don't.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by LowKey » Tue May 30, 2017 12:27 am

KJ4VOV wrote:
The Twizzler wrote:All my mags are kept fully loaded except form the CZ-75-P-07-Duty ( I really dislike the name). The manual says it holds 16 rounds , the magazines say 16 rounds, the mags even have a witness hole for the 16th round.
All Lies!!!!
The magazines hold 15 rounds.
I have three magazines, all OEM for the same gun, all identical on the outside, all with witness marks at 15, two will hold 16, the third holds 17.
<ahem>
I have 30 MecGar 14 round magazines for my 10mm Witness. Says 14 rounds capacity, fits 14 rounds.
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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by ROCK6 » Tue May 30, 2017 5:32 pm

Magazine springs are far better then they were 30-50 years ago; even then, some of the better tempered springs are still working today.

Magazines are designed to be loaded to full capacity. Sometimes that pressure can be hard to seat a round on a closed slide or bolt, but they are built to feed that full capacity.

Most of my training involves magazine changes, so my training capacity is typical 5-6 rounds, but the biggest threat to magaizines is frequent unloading and unloading. That's what wears out springs, not the long term compression of a full magazine.

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Re: How full is YOUR magazine?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Tue May 30, 2017 6:04 pm

I keep my clips full.

But my revolver mags are always one less than full, but one in the chamber.
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