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Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:11 am
by From0toHero
People who are allowed to carry there weapons on them in the US, in which condition do they carry there guns? Cocked and locked? Or Israeli style? Cops seem to have one in the chamber all the time. Is it not also safe with good training to keep it israeli style?

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:34 am
by Redeyes
I carry my pistol with a full chamber and magazine. I also carry it in a holster that fully encloses the trigger guard and is made of material that will not warp into the trigger guard. With careful gun handling and reholstering; this method is safe. It allows me to respond to a threat by shooting it with my pistol quickly and allows me to draw and fire one handed should I need to.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:16 am
by raptor
There is a lot of personal preference involved in your question.There is also the question of the exact model of the CCW being carried, its safety devices and how prone the design is to negligent discharge . That and how and where the CCW is carried be it hip holster,pocket or waist band, etc.

I am in the camp that says if you carry a CCW it should be loaded and ready to go. If it is a semi-auto, a round should be in the chamber and the safety engaged. I also prefer a j frame or DAO compacts that do not have a manual safety like a Sig 290RS



Still that is only a preference YMMV.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:17 am
by CK14
Agreed, it all comes down to preference and what you're comfortable with. In my terminology a gun is not loaded unless there is a round in the chamber (semantics debate begin!). In my humble opinion, if you're going to carry a gun (professionally or CCW) you should carry it in a condition that is ready to fire when you draw and present. If you're not comfortable carrying a gun with a round in the chamber than I would question if you're comfortable carrying a gun at all.

I carry 3 different guns, 1911 (single action/ thumb safety), Sig 239 (Double action/ single action, carried hammer down no manual safety), and a J Frame .38spl (double action only). I have never felt unsafe carrying any of these guns loaded. Get quality gear and you shouldn't have to worry if the gun is safe or not when in the holster.

I have spoken to several people who carry with no round in the chamber and they seem to believe they will be able to draw and load the gun in a timely manner. Perhaps with training you can effectively carry that way, I just don't buy into that philosophy.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:39 pm
by ZomCon Sargeant
Disclaimer: I am not a Professional Trainer/Instructor and I am only stating my opinion on this matter. It is up to the individual what they feel is best. I do not know your state and local laws and that is YOUR responsibility to know these. I especially have no idea what the laws are in your country.

Depends on how comfortable the individual is with their firearm. As far as "Cocked and Locked" if your firearm allows I recommend carrying it that way. Noticed that you have a P30 from another thread. Does your P30 have the manual Safety/De-cocker lever or not? I know that some do and some do not.

Some folks do carry "Israeli style" here. I highly advise NOT doing so. I also advise not carrying a pistol WITH a manual safety unless you train and train and train with it. Then train some more. So that way if you ever had to draw your firearm in real situation where you may have to defend yourself by firing it at a threat your muscle memory will kick in. Same goes for carrying "Israeli Style".

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:45 pm
by JeeperCreeper
All preference depending on the person and equipment.

Personally, if I carry, I keep my chamber empty with no safety. Most people disagree with me. But last I checked, I don't judge the kind of toilet paper that takes care of their ass so they shouldn't worry about what protects mine.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:49 pm
by flybynight
I never carry a pistol that I cannot draw and fire one handed.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:50 am
by Viper shtf
Also cocked and locked here. Like someone else said though, I use a holster that covers the trigger guard, and won't bump it either.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:58 am
by MacAttack
I only carry DA/SA pistols so I carry round chambered, hammer down, safety off.

And practice a lot.


One of the main reasons I got an everyday shooting revolver was to practice those first shot double action trigger pulls. Then went through hell finding a grip that matched my semi-auto angle.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:12 pm
by Stercutus
One analogy is that not carrying a round in the pipe is kind of like saying; "I am not going to wear my seat belt because if I get in a wreck I should be able to put it on before impact."

You won't be able to.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:24 pm
by JeeperCreeper
Stercutus wrote:One analogy is that not carrying a round in the pipe is kind of like saying; "I am not going to wear my seat belt because if I get in a wreck I should be able to put it on before impact."

You won't be able to.
I like to think of it more like not wearing protection because I am going to pull out.

But normally I have a time machine so I know what I will and won't be able to do in every situation. Seems you have one too.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:40 pm
by Boondock
I dunno, gang. I'm on the fence.

My last patrol in OEF, we rolled out and I left my M4 in amber. The truck got hit in a close-range complex attack and disabled in the kill zone.

When I dismounted, still in amber, it took maybe a millisecond to chamber a round. Not saying that's the way to do it, just relating what happened.

Even though I don't carry now, I might consider leaving the chamber/cylinder empty. I've seen a lot of negligent mishaps with firearms. Then again ...

Like I said, I dunno. Five years ago I feel like I had a lot of training and proficiency and maybe that was a factor in my decision at the time. Interesting debate, though.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:47 pm
by Doctorr Fabulous
Boondock wrote:I dunno, gang. I'm on the fence.

My last patrol in OEF, we rolled out and I left my M4 in amber. The truck got hit in a close-range complex attack and disabled in the kill zone.

When I dismounted, still in amber, it took maybe a millisecond to chamber a round. Not saying that's the way to do it, just relating what happened.

Even though I don't carry now, I might consider leaving the chamber/cylinder empty. I've seen a lot of negligent mishaps with firearms. Then again ...

Like I said, I dunno. Five years ago I feel like I had a lot of training and proficiency and maybe that was a factor in my decision at the time. Interesting debate, though.
Would you have patrolled on foot with an empty chamber?

The major difference is that you had at least several seconds to react. You weren't drawing from a holster in a solo confrontation, or trying to draw from a clinch. Those are a lot more likely for CONUS carry than having to respond to an attack with several other people providing support.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:59 pm
by 12_Gauge_Chimp
I don't carry my G21 just yet and probably have no right to comment, but I kind of want to chime in on this discussion anyway.

Personally, I think if you're going to carry a gun for self defense, you should carry it with a round in the chamber. Otherwise you're just carrying around an expensive paperweight.

If you're not comfortable with carrying a loaded gun around, why carry it in the first place ?

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:01 pm
by Stercutus
JeeperCreeper wrote:
Stercutus wrote:One analogy is that not carrying a round in the pipe is kind of like saying; "I am not going to wear my seat belt because if I get in a wreck I should be able to put it on before impact."

You won't be able to.
I like to think of it more like not wearing protection because I am going to pull out.

But normally I have a time machine so I know what I will and won't be able to do in every situation. Seems you have one too.
I need to carry my pistol in the same place as you do. My experience carrying has never been that enjoyable....

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:13 pm
by Boondock
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Would you have patrolled on foot with an empty chamber?
Indeed. Might have, though. But I was a mortar guy so the gun tube was my primary weapon dismounted.

Still, I know I got real lucky.

Honestly, in that ambush, what I would've done differently was carry more frags and engaged with the Mossberg instead of my carbine when Terry Taliban came in to try to finish us off.

I'm sure others will nitpick me about it, too. Didn't intend to stray off topic. I was just trying to share anecdote I thought might relate to the thread.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:25 pm
by Stercutus
Trouble with comparing the Apples of "team combat operations" to the oranges of "personal defense of self and maybe others" is they are a bit different.

Not irrelevant, just different.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:28 pm
by Boondock
Stercutus wrote:Not irrelevant, just different.
Totally agree.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:48 pm
by JeeperCreeper
Boondock wrote:
Stercutus wrote:Not irrelevant, just different.
Totally agree.
That's why I base my personal defense philosophies on the life of Wyatt Earp. If you want to be prepared to defend yourself when the shit hits the wagon wheel, you need your 6-gun exposed from under your duster so you can quick draw down on street vermin faster'n a buzzard shits out coyote guts. Anything else is just wasting your time and you will be as useful as a tin shit house in a hail storm, yeehaww.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:00 pm
by NapalmMan67

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:17 pm
by flybynight
The more motions you have to make during a time of extreme stress . The bigger the chance of something going wrong.
Since you are already carrying for the possibility of needing to protect yourself in a life or death struggle. Why would you stop your preparations right before end? Worst case scenario is having to rack the slide with only one hand available. You might be fending off a knife attack with one hand, already injured or pinned by multiple assailants. My experience is if the would be attacker saw that you were observing them, they were much less likely to try something. They were looking for the person who was unaware of them or distracted by something else ( or someone else). Surprise was their best advantage. At that point you were already behind the 8 ball.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:28 pm
by MacWa77ace
Hey guys, here's a similar thread about this, but with a 'poll'. :clap: viewtopic.php?f=110&t=96441

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:56 pm
by Paladin1
Personally, I carry a G19 with one in the chamber.

My rational for this is that as a civilian that lives in the burbs and works in the city, I am most likely deploying said weapon in a robbery scenario.

This almost always means I'm going to be jumped/rushed as thugs don't try to rob you from a distance, but up real close.

In that situation, the best course of action, based on my training is to get a hand up in front of you to create space, fend off their weapon, obstruct their view, etc.

So I want to be able to draw and fire one handed.

This also facilitates firing from retention, especially if you have been jumped and are in a wrestling match.

While we all endeavor to be situation aware and don't travel down dark alleys with strange sounds emanating from them, no one is 'on' 24/7.

Did some drills with people being jumped from around a corner, from between cars and no one could draw from decent concealment clothing and get off a shot before being grabbed.

Everyone here is probably aware of the 20' rule. What about 6'?

So yea, one in the chamber, I'll be able to clear the holster in just a few inches, twist it sideways and shoot the bad guy right in the pee-pee if needed.

Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:25 pm
by ManInBlack316
I carry round chambered, my pistol has a safety that I drill switching off during my draw from holster. As many have said, you may be drawing one handed, racking a slide one handed is interesting (as in hard).
Honestly, if I'm already grabbed, I might have to go for pocket knife first and literally fight for my life.