Handgun Condition while concealed

Handgun, Pistol and Revolver topics

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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by cover2 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:46 pm


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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by Dioxin » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:49 am

flybynight wrote:I never carry a pistol that I cannot draw and fire one handed.
I'm most certainly in agreement here.

Maybe we should start a new meme about this.

"Carry with a round chambered, because when seconds count you dont want to be 2 seconds behind."

My advice would be to get a shot timer and time it, I reckon I can get 3 rounds on target before even a single round if I had to rack it first. (And probably an entire mag if I had to do it one-handed ;) )

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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by Tobias05 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:02 pm

Glock 19, round in chamber, raven holster.

...all three safeties engaged. :clap:
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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by KnifeStyle » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:40 pm

I carry a Glock with a loaded chamber. I only use kydex holsters which protect the trigger with solid polymer and can't snag or bunch up, and I like to keep the gun in its holster as much as humanly possible. It stays in the holster on my nightstand, it's inserted into my waistband holstered, stored in the safe holstered, etc. This is really helped by my using a bright red SIRT laser trainer for all dry fire, it lets me train and tinker with my shooting without using my live weapon. When I'm holding my real Glock in my hand it adds extra respect and caution, for this reason I always recommend people pick up a blue gun replica so they're not flinging around their piece learning to draw and get lazy about it being a very dangerous item.

I know of Isreali draw being a thing solely from the interwebz. The only time I've seen it endorsed officially was when the Appleseed project, the beginner rifle training guys, were trying pistol courses for a while and they used the Isreali draw because it saves them a heavy amount of liability working with beginners. The student is unable to negligently fire while drawing, and the gun is only brought into battery facing downrange. Otherwise I've only heard it used by guys who want to fool an attacker who disarmed them. Old revolver mythos is that you carried a six gun with an empty chamber, this is back during the single action days.
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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by jor-el » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:08 pm

KnifeStyle wrote: Old revolver mythos is that you carried a six gun with an empty chamber, this is back during the single action days.
A little more complex than that.

Early revolvers used a firing pin attached to the hammer and this pin would be resting right against the primer of a chambered cartridge. If the revolver were to fall on the ground or fall hammer first, there is a high risk of the firing pin setting off the cartridge. Remington and other revolvers of that pattern had a small hole or cut in the cylinder to rest the firing pin on to avoid the problem. With the Colt 1973 and similar the practice was to leave a chamber empty under the hammer.

With the advent of double action revolvers that practice fell into disuse even though the designs pre-1938 still left a firing pin sitting on a cartridge and was unnecessary when hammer blocks were worked into revolver actions. Much like trigger safeties in auto pistols, the trigger must be depressed to clear a block against the hammer, otherwise the pistol does not fire.

Ruger and Dan Wesson revolvers use a frame mounted firing pin with a transfer bar required to be actuated by a depressed trigger for the hammer to reach the firing pin.
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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by phydaux » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:24 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:All preference depending on the person and equipment.

Personally, if I carry, I keep my chamber empty with no safety. Most people disagree with me. But last I checked, I don't judge the kind of toilet paper that takes care of their ass so they shouldn't worry about what protects mine.
My father-in-law and I both CCW with 1911s. He carries his with a loaded magazine in it, hammer down on an empty chamber because "That's the way I carried it in 'Nam." I carry mine cocked & locked because "That's the way God, Col. Cooper and John Browning intended."

We are both 100% sure the other is wrong, but we respect each other enough not to make an issue of it.

I have a friend who is a little younger. He owns a Beretta 92FS, civilian version of the M9 he carried in Iraq (1 tour) and Afghanistan (2 tours). He CCWs with a round in the chamber, hammer down and the safety OFF because "That's the way I carried it in the sand box." I will soon be buying a CZ-75 and will probably CCW with it that way.

If I owned a Glock, and I NEVER will, but if I did, I would carry it with a round in the chamber.

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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by phydaux » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:31 pm

Tobias05 wrote:Glock 19, round in chamber, raven holster.

...all three safeties engaged. :clap:
I see what you did there.

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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by We'reWolf » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:04 pm

why wouldn't you carry a round in the chamber and be ready to fire?
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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by phydaux » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:03 pm

We'reWolf wrote:why wouldn't you carry a round in the chamber and be ready to fire?
With some older semi-autos, and even some older-still revolvers, the firing pin rested on the primer of the round in the chamber. There was a hazard that if the weapon was dropped inertia would cause the firing pin to set off the primer, discharging a round.

This has lead some people to believe that it is unsafe to carry a semi-auto pistol with a round in the chamber (utterly untrue) much like it was unsafe to carry a Colt Single Action Army revolver with the hammer down on a loaded chamber (was, and still is, completely true).

Some modern firearms still have this issue (for example Series 70 1911s, like I carry). Most modern pistols have mechanical firing pin blocks that prevent the firing pin from moving unless the trigger is in the full rearward position (like Series 80 1911s, which I despise).

For most modern handguns this is a complete non-issue. Glocks and Beretta M9s are 100% safe to carry with a round in the chamber, hammer down on a loaded chamber and external safety OFF in the case of the M9. The only place where there is some discussion at all is in the case of single action semi-autos like the 1911 and the Browning Hi-Power.

I LOVE my 1911 Government Model. I shoot the snot out of it at Steel Challenge & IDPA matches, and I IDC CCW with it. I have no qualms that every time I pull the trigger it will go BOOM, expel the spent casing, and load a fresh round. And if it doesn't, I've practiced my FTE/FTF drills and can get it back running like a Swiss clock in no time. And I carry my 1911 in Condition One, "Cocked & Locked," like God, Col. Cooper and John Browning intended.

But I'm a "1911 guy." I field strip and clean my pistol EVERY TIME after I shoot it. I detail strip and deep clean it every six months or so. I know how to lubricate it but not OVER lubricate it. Every 20,000 rounds I replace all the springs, get the extractor tuned, and have all the pins checked with a micrometer. And every time I go to the range the first box of shells is spent doing FTE/FTF stoppage drills. I have a deep-felt appreciation of the elegant simplicity of the 1911's design. I consider a 1911 to be as much a thing of beauty as any machine can be. I fully expect to be able to fire 100,000 rounds out of my pistol in my life time, and then pass it along to the next generation to shoot, love and enjoy as much as I have.

If you're not a "1911 guy" then the elegant simplicity of the 1911's design is something that can turn on you. I don't recommend them for a new shooter's first handgun.

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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by Stercutus » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:25 am

This has lead some people to believe that it is unsafe to carry a semi-auto pistol with a round in the chamber (utterly untrue)
Well no, if the gun is poorly or cheaply made it well could be unsafe. Quality handguns are generally perfectly fine.
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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by phydaux » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:24 am

But why would you own a poorly/cheaply made firearm in the first place? If your EDC CCW is a Hi Point, or after what we've seen about them a Taurus Millennium, then IMO you deserve what you get.


It's the old saying - Buy quality and cry once.

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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by Trebor » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:30 am

Just for the record, the consenus among firearms instructors is to carry with a round chambered. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages. As to whether any manual safeties should be "Safe" or "Fire" for DA autos that is more personal preference. You can make reasonable arguments either way. (Except for the 1911, that should always be on "Safe")

Seriously, anyone who is not comfortable carrying with a loaded chamber either needs a more modern (safer) gun or, more likely, more training on how to carry a gun.

I challenge you to find any full-time or even serious part-time firearms instructor who recommends or believes in empty chamber carry. Yes, you can always find "some local NRA guy" who is a bozo and recommends something stupid, but I'm talking about the more serious pro's.
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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by Stercutus » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:24 am

I suppose. The big US Army by and large advocates empty chamber carry and most situations. I believe it is because they don't spend enough time on pistol training. A sad deficit really.

Of course they don't allow concealed carry on post either so it may have to with the lack of faith leadership has in their troops.
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Re: Handgun Condition while concealed

Post by FreuderLocks » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:50 am

From0toHero wrote:People who are allowed to carry there weapons on them in the US, in which condition do they carry there guns? Cocked and locked? Or Israeli style? Cops seem to have one in the chamber all the time. Is it not also safe with good training to keep it israeli style?
Striker fire pistol, condition 0: Cocked, locked and ready to rock.
Hammer fired pistol, external safety, condition 1: loaded chamber, loaded kagazine, hammer raised, safety engaged.

Either works for open or concealed carry (For me)

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