Turn your Glock into an SBR.

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Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by moab » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:04 pm

Pretty cool. Don't know what the price is(?).

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:19 pm

That's kind of neat actually.

I think the MSRP on that kit is somewhere around 4 or 500 dollars, but I could be wrong.

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by Morgo » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:21 am

They are fun, been around for a little while.

I have the Hera Arms GCC which unfortunately they discontinued, really fun to shoot.

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by cover2 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:38 pm

I don't get it. At all. If going with something big, I want it to shoot a "big" cartridge. Better to get a true SBR (AR, AK, etc) or even an AR pistol.

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:11 pm

cover2 wrote:I don't get it. At all. If going with something big, I want it to shoot a "big" cartridge. Better to get a true SBR (AR, AK, etc) or even an AR pistol.
Pistol-cal SBRs have a few advantages, namely that they put out a lot less noise and flash in a three or five inch barrel in addition to producing useable ballistics in said barrel length. Consider the below image:
http://i.imgur.com/C747Szg.jpg

I'd have to pull out my stamps to check the OAL on the MP5k clone, but IIRC without the can it's the same OAL as an NFA KSG Tactical model at 21" and only about 11.5" when folded. IIRC the RONI kit is 18" when the stock is collapsed, and the KRISS Vector SBR is 24" unfolded or 16" folded up. Now keep in mind that all of those are making very good use of standard duty loads, supersonic or subsonic, and putting out roughly the same noise and flash as a service handgun.

So, while you could run an AK or AR with a short barrel, you're putting up with a lot more concussion and flash to do so, and you're sacrificing a lot of utility on the back end. You could swt6ich over to a Blackout build, but that's still going to be longer than a pistol-caliber SBR, and the ammo's going to be much more expensive. Doable, and certainly brings more utility for certain circumstances. You could also suppress a rifle-caliber SBR, but again unless you're dropping to subsonic ammo you're going to be loud still, and less effective with most subsonics. You could get much shorter cans than the one I have mounted on the Blackout SBR, but they're less effective, especially compared to the relative sewer pipe that is the SMG can on the MP5. I'm pretty well convinced at this point that in a PDW-length gun like an MP5k, Scorpion Evo, or similar-size PDW configuration with a can and subsonic ammo still outperforms a traditional SBR, even a Blackout or similar boutique round, for PDW uses. If you need to worry about shooting along several blocks, taking down game, or urban military engagements then the .300 Blackout is your baby. If you're up close, a hundred meters or less, and mainly concerned with a quiet, compact weapon, a pistol-cal SBR actually has some utility. Moreso if it uses cheap, common mags that your sidearm uses.

I'm still firmly in the PCC-hater camp for almost all pistol-caliber rifles/carbines.
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by Morgo » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:38 am

cover2 wrote:I don't get it. At all. If going with something big, I want it to shoot a "big" cartridge. Better to get a true SBR (AR, AK, etc) or even an AR pistol.

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Not all places you can have an AR or AK etc.

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by cover2 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:51 pm

Morgo wrote:
cover2 wrote:I don't get it. At all. If going with something big, I want it to shoot a "big" cartridge. Better to get a true SBR (AR, AK, etc) or even an AR pistol.

Https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com
Not all places you can have an AR or AK etc.
Fair enough. In that case, I'd sooner just use a Glock with an RMR which, while it lacks the stock and cheekweld ability, gains in concealability, yet I can still make 50m and beyond shots with it.

But, to each their own I guess.

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by Morgo » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:23 pm

cover2 wrote:
Morgo wrote:
cover2 wrote:I don't get it. At all. If going with something big, I want it to shoot a "big" cartridge. Better to get a true SBR (AR, AK, etc) or even an AR pistol.

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Not all places you can have an AR or AK etc.
Fair enough. In that case, I'd sooner just use a Glock with an RMR which, while it lacks the stock and cheekweld ability, gains in concealability, yet I can still make 50m and beyond shots with it.

But, to each their own I guess.
I'd rather just have both, lol :)

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by woodsghost » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:00 pm

cover2 wrote:
Morgo wrote:
cover2 wrote:I don't get it. At all. If going with something big, I want it to shoot a "big" cartridge. Better to get a true SBR (AR, AK, etc) or even an AR pistol.

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Not all places you can have an AR or AK etc.
Fair enough. In that case, I'd sooner just use a Glock with an RMR which, while it lacks the stock and cheekweld ability, gains in concealability, yet I can still make 50m and beyond shots with it.

But, to each their own I guess.
Good for you if you can, under stress, make hits at good range with a pistol. It is very possible to consistently make hits on man sized targets with a S&W 641 at 90 yards (I've done it in a competition), but most folks would be better served with a stock, and I sure wish I'd had a stock. If you have the option to make a weapon shoulder-fireable, take it. I can't think of any self-defense or home-defense situation in which I'd rather have more concealability than consistency of hits. We conceal and carry pistols because it is not socially acceptable to carry rifles in public.

And the only reasons to carry a pistol round rather than a rifle round is that pistol rounds don't concuss you as much (especially when suppressed) and can outperform *certain* rifle rounds when launched out of sub-9 inch barrels.

As was said above, PCCs, within their narrow niche, are useful. I"d carry one if I could not carry a rifle.
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by moab » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:36 pm

woodsghost wrote:
cover2 wrote:
Morgo wrote:
cover2 wrote:I don't get it. At all. If going with something big, I want it to shoot a "big" cartridge. Better to get a true SBR (AR, AK, etc) or even an AR pistol.

Https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com
Not all places you can have an AR or AK etc.
Fair enough. In that case, I'd sooner just use a Glock with an RMR which, while it lacks the stock and cheekweld ability, gains in concealability, yet I can still make 50m and beyond shots with it.

But, to each their own I guess.
Good for you if you can, under stress, make hits at good range with a pistol. It is very possible to consistently make hits on man sized targets with a S&W 641 at 90 yards (I've done it in a competition), but most folks would be better served with a stock, and I sure wish I'd had a stock. If you have the option to make a weapon shoulder-fireable, take it. I can't think of any self-defense or home-defense situation in which I'd rather have more concealability than consistency of hits. We conceal and carry pistols because it is not socially acceptable to carry rifles in public.

And the only reasons to carry a pistol round rather than a rifle round is that pistol rounds don't concuss you as much (especially when suppressed) and can outperform *certain* rifle rounds when launched out of sub-9 inch barrels.

As was said above, PCCs, within their narrow niche, are useful. I"d carry one if I could not carry a rifle.
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by Dave_M » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:58 pm

cover2 wrote:
Morgo wrote:
cover2 wrote:I don't get it. At all. If going with something big, I want it to shoot a "big" cartridge. Better to get a true SBR (AR, AK, etc) or even an AR pistol.

Https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com
Not all places you can have an AR or AK etc.
Fair enough. In that case, I'd sooner just use a Glock with an RMR which, while it lacks the stock and cheekweld ability, gains in concealability, yet I can still make 50m and beyond shots with it.

But, to each their own I guess.
I'd argue for SBR'ing one of those. Quick attach stock + RDS + VFG is very capable. I've also seen some guys attach single point slings to the lanyard loops on their 6 Second'd Glocks. Going to try that one myself and see how far I can bring it back regularly. I zero the RDS' on my 9mm handguns at 10m, as you get a bit longer point blank range than the 25m zero. There are trade offs, of course, namely that it isn't at flat out to 75m like a 25m zero is. Still, only a 2" variation in either direction out to 100m.
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by RonnyRonin » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:57 pm

Dave_M wrote: I'd argue for SBR'ing one of those. Quick attach stock + RDS + VFG is very capable. I've also seen some guys attach single point slings to the lanyard loops on their 6 Second'd Glocks. Going to try that one myself and see how far I can bring it back regularly. I zero the RDS' on my 9mm handguns at 10m, as you get a bit longer point blank range than the 25m zero. There are trade offs, of course, namely that it isn't at flat out to 75m like a 25m zero is. Still, only a 2" variation in either direction out to 100m.
In a fit of curiosity I wrapped some P-cord around the grip as high as I could on a glock and clipped in a single point. seemed a good bit better then nothing but I never actually shot it like that.

I never understood the whole giant-chassis SBR conversion just from a bulk/weigh/awkwardness standpoint, but if I had an RDS equipped handgun I think I would stamp it before a carbine. having a concealable handgun with an inconspicuous stock kept handy seems like one of the best common man PDWs I can think of.
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by TheLastOne » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:59 am

do these things extend the barrel length somehow? Someone give me a quick lesson on what this does to make your pistol any different than what it is already
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by Dave_M » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:05 am

TheLastOne wrote:do these things extend the barrel length somehow? Someone give me a quick lesson on what this does to make your pistol any different than what it is already
Additional stabilization point due to the buttstock + possibilities of sling usage. Ability to easily add an optic, albeit questionable in many instances.
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by clarence » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:31 am

At the exact same length as the Hera Triarii, I would take Brent’s Storm over my SBR Glock 19 in the Triarii any day.

http://shortbarrelshepherd.com/flex-you ... t-entry-9/

I'll be bobbing the stock of my CX4 1.7" for an OAL of 28" (16.6" barrel).

Could SBR it to just 24" (12.6" barrel):

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.p ... eretta-CX4
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by From0toHero » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:59 am

Wow i found one fitting the HK P30
Here is a pic
Image
Anyone owned one of this before? Are they good? Never heard of this brand before.

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by moab » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:39 am

From0toHero wrote:Wow i found one fitting the HK P30
Here is a pic
Image
Anyone owned one of this before? Are they good? Never heard of this brand before.
Do you have a link or a brand name?
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by yggdrasil45 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:06 pm

Morgo wrote: "Hera Arms GCC"

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You see these kind of kits all over but this is the only one that is pleasing to the eye IMHO.
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by moab » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:07 pm

yggdrasil45 wrote:
Morgo wrote: "Hera Arms GCC"

Image
You see these kind of kits all over but this is the only one that is pleasing to the eye IMHO.
I kind of like the collapsible stock better.
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by Morgo » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:43 pm

moab wrote:
From0toHero wrote:Wow i found one fitting the HK P30
Here is a pic
Image
Anyone owned one of this before? Are they good? Never heard of this brand before.
Do you have a link or a brand name?
Looks like the hera triarii.

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by ashwednesday » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:11 pm

For about the price of a basic AR you can pay for a tax stamp and a stock contraption to make your pistol a carbine? Sounds awful.

I spent a lot of time talking a friend of mine out of a RONI, I don't know why it was so hard. This doesn't make a pistol into a submachine gun any more than a body kit turns a Citroen 2CV into a Ferrari.

I've got a 357 Sig barrel for my Glock 23, seems like that would be more ballistically effective.

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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by moab » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:45 pm

ashwednesday wrote:For about the price of a basic AR you can pay for a tax stamp and a stock contraption to make your pistol a carbine? Sounds awful.

I spent a lot of time talking a friend of mine out of a RONI, I don't know why it was so hard. This doesn't make a pistol into a submachine gun any more than a body kit turns a Citroen 2CV into a Ferrari.

I've got a 357 Sig barrel for my Glock 23, seems like that would be more ballistically effective.

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I've got a 357 Sig Glock 32. But it's Gen2 with no rails on the fore-end. So I won't be picking one up anytime soon.

Just thinking outloud here. What about one of these and a longer barrel as a bug out strategy? Where you want to maybe open carry your pistol as that is not as threatening as an open carry long arm. With the stock and longer barrel concealed in your pack as a way to convert your pistol into something at least a little closer to an actual SBR? Someone was making 16 glock barrels.

But then again (your right) between the barrel, pistol and stock your looking at something more expensive than a tru SBR in AK or AR that could be packed in the right size backpack. And pulled out once your beyond military or police checkpoints and the like. Or away from places where carrying a long arm might draw to much attention.

Only other consideration I can think of is weight. Not sure how much you'd be saving with the Roni stock and pistol though. I guess it would have to be at least a couple pounds lighter than an actual sbr.

Hell I can fit a full AK with a folding stock into my backpack. So I guess this idea does really suck. Unless your intent on only carrying a pistol and the added weight of the stock is negligible. I don't recall reading how much the stocks weigh. But the stock (and perhaps barrel) would have to increase your accuracy by a wide margin to make it all worth while. And I've seen no tests on that either.

Well. They sure look cool. lol! ;)
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:21 am

moab wrote:
ashwednesday wrote:For about the price of a basic AR you can pay for a tax stamp and a stock contraption to make your pistol a carbine? Sounds awful.

I spent a lot of time talking a friend of mine out of a RONI, I don't know why it was so hard. This doesn't make a pistol into a submachine gun any more than a body kit turns a Citroen 2CV into a Ferrari.

I've got a 357 Sig barrel for my Glock 23, seems like that would be more ballistically effective.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
I've got a 357 Sig Glock 32. But it's Gen2 with no rails on the fore-end. So I won't be picking one up anytime soon.

Just thinking outloud here. What about one of these and a longer barrel as a bug out strategy? Where you want to maybe open carry your pistol as that is not as threatening as an open carry long arm. With the stock and longer barrel concealed in your pack as a way to convert your pistol into something at least a little closer to an actual SBR? Someone was making 16 glock barrels.

But then again (your right) between the barrel, pistol and stock your looking at something more expensive than a tru SBR in AK or AR that could be packed in the right size backpack. And pulled out once your beyond military or police checkpoints and the like. Or away from places where carrying a long arm might draw to much attention.

Only other consideration I can think of is weight. Not sure how much you'd be saving with the Roni stock and pistol though. I guess it would have to be at least a couple pounds lighter than an actual sbr.

Hell I can fit a full AK with a folding stock into my backpack. So I guess this idea does really suck. Unless your intent on only carrying a pistol and the added weight of the stock is negligible. I don't recall reading how much the stocks weigh. But the stock (and perhaps barrel) would have to increase your accuracy by a wide margin to make it all worth while. And I've seen no tests on that either.

Well. They sure look cool. lol! ;)
https://www.botach.com/fab-defense-gloc ... le-stocks/

I'd go with that and a Six Second Mount or similar optics system over a RONI kit. I think my thoughts on PCCs are relatively well known, but if not I'll reiterate. Pistol-caliber carbines generally suck. Generally, they don't gain shit for velocity for the added barrel length, the projectiles are ballistically Teh Suck, and the terminal ballistics aren't impressive compared to a 'real' carbine in an intermediate rifle caliber. The exception, IMO, is and has been submachineguns, because of the added firepower that the giggle setting affords for point-blank "OH SHIT" moments, and to a much lesser extend pistol-caliber SBRs, with a caveat.

Image

The OAL on the stamp for my MP5 PDW clone is 14.5" on the nosey. My AR SBR with the stock collapsed is still like 22.5" OAL, you can't see well but the muzzle peeks just forward of that rail. The SBR was six and a half pounds at its lightest, unloaded, and without using a superlight setup. It could go down to five-ish, but that's costly. The PDW as it sits there is right at 5.6lb unloaded because of the added rail, optic, light [not shown] and forepenis. Both use magazines that, loaded, weigh about half a pound. Only one of them folds up to just a hair over a foot long. Of the two, neither produces rifle-level ballistics, but I'll take 9mm subsonics from a service-length barrel over 5.56 from a 7" barrel any day of the week as long as the mission isn't to make a bunch of wasted noise and flash. There's no question in my mind which gives you more actual firepower in a package shorter than two feet long.

IMO, a stocked or chassis'd Glock is right there with an off-brand MP5k clone in terms of reliability and performance. The Glock runs cheaper mags though. If I hadn't gotten a heck of a deal on the PDW to begin with, I'd probably put a stamp on my 9mm AR build and put a shorter barrel on it, or maybe put a stamp on a Scorpion Evo over an HK product. Those new X95 Tavor SBRs also look like a neat compact pistol-caliber SBR. The Scorpion is even lighter, under 5lb before a can and magazine but after a stock. There's also the new Uzi pistol line.

Now the other gamechanger could possibly be new rounds like the .22 TCM. 5.7 is mostly a dud unless you're made of money, because of the requirements for the damn cases to be lacquered or whatever. AFAIK, the TCM doesn't require that, and should produce a light, hot round capable of firing from most 9mm guns with a conversion. .300 Blackout hasn't been the messiah that everyone wanted so far, as effective subsonic rounds are still either redonkulously pricey or hard to come by. Still, it works in a much shorter barrel than 5.56 and with less flash and sound in subsonic loads, and if one were packing light a few magazines of Lehigh Defense wouldn't be horribly expensive.

Still, when it comes down to size, weight, and ability to run quiet I think there's a niche spot for a suppressed pistol-caliber SBR. It will never be as effective as a rifle or as concealable as a handgun, but it can bridge the gap if you determine that what you need is to bridge the gap, particularly if you're not overly concerned with defeating enemy armor.
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Re: Turn your Glock into an SBR.

Post by Stercutus » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:03 pm

I'd lean more towards a 41 (or longer) if I were going that route. Big fat slow bullet as opposed to smaller slow bullet. It would have to have a can.

.300 Blackout hasn't been the messiah that everyone wanted so far, as effective subsonic rounds are still either redonkulously pricey or hard to come by.
Yep that was the first thing I noticed about that round. It is changing though, just slowly.
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