Magnum Cartridge poll

Handgun, Pistol and Revolver topics

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

Best choice of magnum cartridge for large game hunting (up to 1,000 lbs)

Poll ended at Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:46 am

.357 magnum
3
27%
.41 magnum
0
No votes
.44 magnum
4
36%
.454 casull
1
9%
.460 smith and wesson magnum
1
9%
.500 smith and wesson magnum
1
9%
Something Else (post your choice!)
1
9%
 
Total votes: 11

Neptune Glory
* * *
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Army of Darkness, The Crow (technically a Zombie!), Lost Boys (Vampires are Zombies, too!)
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri

Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Neptune Glory » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:46 am

Just a quick poll, thanks! (This is for handguns, not carbines in the same calibers.)
-Neptune
Last edited by Neptune Glory on Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13468
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Stercutus » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:01 pm

Don't like any of those for an animal that large. I imagine they could all take an animal that size under the right set of circumstances but those circumstance would be pretty particular. If I really wanted to hunt elk or whatever with a handgun I would likely go with a single shot in .308.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 16725
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by raptor » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:11 pm

Stercutus wrote:Don't like any of those for an animal that large. I imagine they could all take an animal that size under the right set of circumstances but those circumstance would be pretty particular. If I really wanted to hunt elk or whatever with a handgun I would likely go with a single shot in .308.
QFT.

I saw my first moose in the wild the other day and there is no way I would intentionally go out hunting a 1,000 lb critter with a just a handgun. I am too old to climb a tree fast enough to get out the way of a pissed off moose.

If I were doing it I would want a long barrel and either a .454 or the S&W .460 revolver. I would probably opt for the .460 solely because it is my understanding that it can handle .45 LC and .454 rounds which provides some versatility.

That said a rifle with a .45/70, .444 marlin or even a .30-06/.308 would make me feel a lot better.

User avatar
woodsghost
* * * * *
Posts: 3141
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by woodsghost » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:23 pm

The articles I have read about people hunting moose have all used .44 mags. Though I was reading those before things like the .500 S&W and .460 existed. So I don't know what people are using today.

I don't know if I'll vote, but I'll say people CAN hunt moose with a .44, but as has been said above, it might be nice to have something bigger.

Just make sure you are comfortable shooting whatever you pick, you can make shots under stress (so get out hunting with it right away, use on deer, raccoon, coyotes, whatever you can legally hunt), have fun and good luck!
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

User avatar
SRO1911
* * *
Posts: 471
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: Abilene, TX

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by SRO1911 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:24 pm

Large game up to a thousand pounds - thats pretty broad.
I have been predominantly a handgun hunter for the last 18 years or so. Handgunning and bowhunting are very similar in regards to stalking and range. Get as close as you can, then sneak up another 10 yards.
On your poll I selected the .41 mag - it is a nice compromise between the flat shooting .357 and the harder hitting .44 - without the torque and recoil of the other options. I see many new handgun hunters with big 500's and 460's think that big bullets trump good marksmanship and ethical practices. This is asinine.
Different species of game animals react differently - what is ideal for one is barely adequate for another even within the same weight class.
I would be completely comfortable with a 1911 in 45 super or 460 roland on a 200lb texas whitetail, but on a 200lb boar I want more penetration and will go with a 41mag or 10mm shooting heavy hardcast loaded up to beat the speed of heat.
Elmer Keith took almost every game animal in the world with a .44 mag - and on most of them he had someone backing him up with a rifle - he also dedicated thousands if not tens of thousands of rounds to practice with full power hunting loads.

Point =
Choosing the right caliber for the specific game you are going after is based on more than just a generic weight class.
More importantly is choosing the right bullet construction and having the skills and fundamentals to use it in the most ethical manner.

Neptune Glory
* * *
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Army of Darkness, The Crow (technically a Zombie!), Lost Boys (Vampires are Zombies, too!)
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Neptune Glory » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:52 pm

SRO1911 wrote: I see many new handgun hunters with big 500's and 460's think that big bullets trump good marksmanship and ethical practices. This is asinine.
Point =
Choosing the right caliber for the specific game you are going after is based on more than just a generic weight class.
More importantly is choosing the right bullet construction and having the skills and fundamentals to use it in the most ethical manner.
I really liked your post, thanks!

You mentioned ethics a couple of times. Could you please elaborate?

Thank you!
-Neptune

p.s. I found this online article about hunting ethics vs hunting preferences... not sure if it applies but here's the link: http://www.huntright.org/where-we-stand ... references

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by quazi » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Stercutus wrote:Don't like any of those for an animal that large. I imagine they could all take an animal that size under the right set of circumstances but those circumstance would be pretty particular. If I really wanted to hunt elk or whatever with a handgun I would likely go with a single shot in .308.
The .460 and .500 S&W magnum cartridges are nothing to sneeze at. They are up there with many full-powered rifle cartridges that are popular for hunting.

I jumped on MidwayUSA's website and it looked like most of the 180 grain .308 had a velocity in the 2600-2700 FPS range. The lightest .460 S&W Mag I could find was 200 grains and had a velocity in the 2200-2300 FPS range. Not that I think that the lightest weight bullet would be best, it's just easier to compare bullets of a similar weight. Most .460 S&W ammunition is 300+ grains. I would bet that out of an 8-10" barrel a .460 or .500 S&W would pack more of a wallop than a .308.

I guess if a person is elk hunting they may be up in the high country where a .308 would have better range than a .460.

I've never been much interested in the S&W X-Frames for large animals from a defensive perspective, they're just too heavy. But if I was interested in handgun hunting that would be a different story.

I've never even held an X-Frame Smith though, so I'm not sure what the balance is like on them. I've shot a Remington XP-100, and being a bullpup it was surprisingly easy to hold it off-hand without getting shaky.

I personally wouldn't hunt dangerous game with a handgun, but that has more to do with shot placement than the power of the cartridge.

User avatar
SRO1911
* * *
Posts: 471
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: Abilene, TX

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by SRO1911 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:39 pm

Ethical hunting - the short version.
The ability, through proper practice and preparation to humanely dispatch the game animal you seek as efficiently as possible.
This means, typically, taking only those shots that you know are within both your capability as a shooter and your weapons performance envelope.
I personally cringe when I see people talking about 500+ yard shots on game animals. I regularly shoot long distance, and have competed in benchrest and F-class for many years - I know beyond a shadow of a doubt I can put 5 rounds inside a minute of angle at 500 yards, but I wont take that shot on a game animal.

While the muzzle energy on a 500 S&W will rival many popular hunting rifle rounds - the performance typically will not, at least not without a great deal of practice. A scoped pistol in the hands of an experienced will out shoot many rifles - make it an xp-100, and I will go target for target against any production rifle.
Many new handgunners hit the field with a false sense of capacity, they think the 5 rounds they put on a target at the range are 'good enough' to get them ready to hunt. You hear people singing the praises of the massive hydrostatic shock, the monsterous energy transfer - as though merely putting a 300 plus grain bullet near an animal will cause it to fall in its tracks. Guess what? Animals dont really have much sense of awe. They go out and take a shot at a deer or what have you and end up tracking a blood trail - - instead of trying to get closer and get steadier. A badly place shot will, if it does connect, wound an animal regardless of being a .17 hmr or a 50bmg (I have taken game with both, dead is dead) it really does not matter. A deer or elk is not going to look down and see a .50 diameter hole in its guts and say WOW! I should be dead, and just fall over.
A .357 will kill a bear just as dead as a .44 or .460 - shot placement, beats caliber any day of the week. A big part of shot placement is knowing your limits and your equipment. I shoot offhand at the range with my 1911's nearly every trip, in all of my hunting I have only take one offhand shot at an animal and that was very unusual circumstances. A nice little buck decided to rub on the tree I was climbing down. All other shots were off a rest, be it a convenient limb, shooting sticks, my pack, something to get steadier.

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by quazi » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:42 pm

SRO1911 wrote:While the muzzle energy on a 500 S&W will rival many popular hunting rifle rounds - the performance typically will not, at least not without a great deal of practice.
Are we talking about the performance of the cartridge, or the performance of the firearm? I figure you mean that it takes a lot more skill to shoot well with a handgun than it does a rifle, which I totally agree with.

Neptune Glory
* * *
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Army of Darkness, The Crow (technically a Zombie!), Lost Boys (Vampires are Zombies, too!)
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Neptune Glory » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:33 pm

Best choice of magnum cartridge for large game hunting (up to 1,000 lbs)

.357 magnum 27% [ 3 ]
.41 magnum 0% [ 0 ]
.44 magnum 36% [ 4 ]
.454 casull 9% [ 1 ]
.460 smith and wesson magnum 9% [ 1 ]
.500 smith and wesson magnum 9% [ 1 ]
Something Else (post your choice!) 9% [ 1 ]
That was the result for the poll with regard to hunting large game.

Would anybody's answer have changed, if the poll had been for large critter self-defense, rather than hunting?
-Neptune

User avatar
Sworbeyegib
* * * * *
Posts: 3361
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead is what started it all for me
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Sworbeyegib » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:06 pm

Dedicated hunting revolver for 1000lb+ game? I'd go with a .460sw for the versatility. And of course for protection in the field.

Mostly hunting deer and hogs with the very occasional bigger game hunt? I'd stick with a .44mag.
**Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't**

Image

User avatar
Sworbeyegib
* * * * *
Posts: 3361
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead is what started it all for me
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Sworbeyegib » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:18 pm

I think that in term of ethical hunting range with a handgun (using a "handgun" caliber), the limiting factor will be the shooter's capability, not the power of the cartridge. Shooting from a supported position using a proper optic becomes paramount. That being said, I would still prefer bigger if I can get it. Partly for the sake of being able to use better constructed bullets to maximize efficiency.

I've never handgun hunted, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I have heard that people using a .44mag for the largest game will usually opt for non-expanding or hardcast bullets to maximize penetration in the event of hitting particularly thick bone. But people shooting the extra large calibers such as .460sw and .500sw utilize JSP bullets with no loss of minimal penetration.
**Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't**

Image

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 16725
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by raptor » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:32 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:
Best choice of magnum cartridge for large game hunting (up to 1,000 lbs)

.357 magnum 27% [ 3 ]
.41 magnum 0% [ 0 ]
.44 magnum 36% [ 4 ]
.454 casull 9% [ 1 ]
.460 smith and wesson magnum 9% [ 1 ]
.500 smith and wesson magnum 9% [ 1 ]
Something Else (post your choice!) 9% [ 1 ]
That was the result for the poll with regard to hunting large game.

Would anybody's answer have changed, if the poll had been for large critter self-defense, rather than hunting?
-Neptune

Yes, for self defense purposes I would accept a .44 magnum with a 6 inch barrel. I would accept this because in a defensive encounter while a one shot kill is preferable simply driving off the animal is an acceptable outcome so long as I can walk away from the encounter.

That said if I was walking around where there may be 1,000 lb pissed off critters I would likely carry a shorter barrel lever action in either .45/70, .444 Marlin or .450 Marlin in lieu of a pistol.

Neptune Glory
* * *
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Army of Darkness, The Crow (technically a Zombie!), Lost Boys (Vampires are Zombies, too!)
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Neptune Glory » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:25 am

raptor wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:
Best choice of magnum cartridge for large game hunting (up to 1,000 lbs)

.357 magnum 27% [ 3 ]
.41 magnum 0% [ 0 ]
.44 magnum 36% [ 4 ]
.454 casull 9% [ 1 ]
.460 smith and wesson magnum 9% [ 1 ]
.500 smith and wesson magnum 9% [ 1 ]
Something Else (post your choice!) 9% [ 1 ]
That was the result for the poll with regard to hunting large game.

Would anybody's answer have changed, if the poll had been for large critter self-defense, rather than hunting?
-Neptune

Yes, for self defense purposes I would accept a .44 magnum with a 6 inch barrel. I would accept this because in a defensive encounter while a one shot kill is preferable simply driving off the animal is an acceptable outcome so long as I can walk away from the encounter.

That said if I was walking around where there may be 1,000 lb pissed off critters I would likely carry a shorter barrel lever action in either .45/70, .444 Marlin or .450 Marlin in lieu of a pistol.
So is it safe to say... use the hottest round that you can reliably use / make multiple shots with in a hurry, in case of a charging (insert large animal here)? Be that .44 mag, .357 mag, .454 casull, etc?

And preferably a 6" barrel, so it's relatively easy to clear holster with?
-Neptune
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 16725
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by raptor » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:35 pm

Neptune Glory wrote: So is it safe to say... use the hottest round that you can reliably use / make multiple shots with in a hurry, in case of a charging (insert large animal here)? Be that .44 mag, .357 mag, .454 casull, etc?

And preferably a 6" barrel, so it's relatively easy to clear holster with?
-Neptune
Obviously YMMV but that would be my suggestion; that and have a rifle handy. I would also note a 12 gauge shot gun loaded with some high quality slugs would work for me also in a defensive situation.

Snyper708
* *
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:29 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Snyper708 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:51 am

Neptune Glory wrote:
Best choice of magnum cartridge for large game hunting (up to 1,000 lbs)

.357 magnum 27% [ 3 ]
.41 magnum 0% [ 0 ]
.44 magnum 36% [ 4 ]
.454 casull 9% [ 1 ]
.460 smith and wesson magnum 9% [ 1 ]
.500 smith and wesson magnum 9% [ 1 ]
Something Else (post your choice!) 9% [ 1 ]
That was the result for the poll with regard to hunting large game.

Would anybody's answer have changed, if the poll had been for large critter self-defense, rather than hunting?
-Neptune
I chose the 44 Mag, and wouldn't change.

While the larger cartridges do offer more power, it comes at the price of extreme recoil and loss of control for quick follow up shots.

Most shooters simply can't handle them, and they are by NO means fun to shoot

There are no animals in North America that a 44 magnum won't put down with well placed shots and the correct projectile

If I lived in the Far North, and there was a high likelyhood of encountering Brown Bears and Polar Bears at close range, I might opt for a 454 Casull, but I'd still feel about as safe with a 44.

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13468
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Stercutus » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:22 am

Neptune Glory wrote:

Would anybody's answer have changed, if the poll had been for large critter self-defense, rather than hunting?
-Neptune
I would likely .44 Magnum or .44 Automag for defense from the horrific beasties. Ranges will be closer, more and faster shots may be needed.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

User avatar
steppenwolf
* * *
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: UNSEEN IN ALL THE RIGHT PLACES ...

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by steppenwolf » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:15 pm

Just a quick poll, thanks! (This is for handguns, not carbines in the same calibers.)
-Neptune
A true magnum autoloader: The 10mm AUTO

Image

8-)

Neptune Glory
* * *
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Army of Darkness, The Crow (technically a Zombie!), Lost Boys (Vampires are Zombies, too!)
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Neptune Glory » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:55 pm

10 mm Auto equals approximately 750 ft-lbs of energy, per wikipedia.

.357 magnum equals approximately 675 ft-lbs of energy (same source), so 10 mm Auto is quite a viable replacement for the .357 magnum!

.41 mangum equals between 890 - 1320 ft-lbs of energy (same source), so 10 mm Auto falls short there... and the rest of the choices are higher energy than that (.44 magnum, .454 casull, .460 s&w magnum and .500 s&w magnum).

Thanks for the input!
-Neptune
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

User avatar
RickOShea
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 9074
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: Gulf Coast, AL

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by RickOShea » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:18 pm

whisk.e.rebellion wrote: It's not what you say anymore. It's how you say it.

Image ............................................................................................................................................................................................Image

User avatar
steppenwolf
* * *
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: UNSEEN IN ALL THE RIGHT PLACES ...

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by steppenwolf » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:47 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:10 mm Auto equals approximately 750 ft-lbs of energy, per wikipedia.

.357 magnum equals approximately 675 ft-lbs of energy (same source), so 10 mm Auto is quite a viable replacement for the .357 magnum! Plus, the diameter of the bullet is larger, i.e., 355 vs. .400/10mm.
.41 mangum [sic] equals between 890 - 1320 ft-lbs of energy (same source), so 10 mm Auto falls short there... * * * Thanks for the input!
-Neptune
Fuzzy math, seriously dude. You just segwayed into the always asymmetrical revolver vs. autoloader comparison ... There's no .41 Magnum autoloader currently being produced, notwithstanding one of those old, rare Magnum Research Deagles, and there are, in current production, only two .357mag autoloaders I know of - the Deagle and the Coonan.

So comparing apples to apples & oranges to oranges, ...

... the 10mm AUTO still wins out, especially in factory ammo, whether it's off-the-shelf or bought on-line from one of the so-called "boutique" outfits (i.e., DT, Underwood, Buff. Bore, Corbon, Geo. Arms, et al).


Image

8-)

User avatar
steppenwolf
* * *
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: UNSEEN IN ALL THE RIGHT PLACES ...

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by steppenwolf » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:51 pm

Funny, I was at 3 LGS last week and while all of them had varieties of 10mm ammo in stock and on the shelves - admittedly, some more than others - none had any 460 Rowland ammo.

Must be a Martian thing, hmmm? :roll:

:lol:

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:57 pm

Size queens, the lot of you. Where you put it has a lot more to do with performance than the number on the box.
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

User avatar
RickOShea
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 9074
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: Gulf Coast, AL

Re: Magnum Cartridge poll

Post by RickOShea » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:59 pm

steppenwolf wrote:
Funny, I was at 3 LGS last week and while all of them had varieties of 10mm ammo in stock and on the shelves - admittedly, some more than others - none had any 460 Rowland ammo.

Must be a Martian thing, hmmm? :roll:

:lol:
Yeah, ya pretty much have to order the stuff online....Mr. Potterfield usually has some "in stock".

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1& ... onid=10112
whisk.e.rebellion wrote: It's not what you say anymore. It's how you say it.

Image ............................................................................................................................................................................................Image

Post Reply

Return to “Handguns”