S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of ILS?

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Merovech
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S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of ILS?

Post by Merovech » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:29 am

Without getting political (lets not get into the reasons behind their decision please) both Ruger and S&W have decided to stop selling guns to/in/for the California market.

I was wondering if anyone has heard about S&W taking the MANDATORY Internal Locking System out of their handguns as a part of this decision? ...Or Ruger no longer printing a paragraph of safety text on their firearms?

Or if the guns are going to stay the same? It would be nice if S&W offered the ILS as an option now, instead of all production guns having it. :vmad:
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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by LastBoyScout » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:14 pm

The ILS (internal locking system) on S&W revolvers has nothing to do with CA law. Many other revolvers as sold here that do not have it like Ruger and Taurus and Rossi.

The issue is Micro stamping is now required for all new models of semi auto pistols that can be put on the CA approved list.

I read a lot of the stories about this and they all do not understand the issue. It is not the guns that the companies already have on the list but new ones.

This has and will continue to be an issue in CA.

We can still buy Glocks as long as they were on the list before 2014 and most are except the Gen 4 guns.

So we go on here in CA and find more loopholes to buy what we want.


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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by alptraum » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:14 pm

I don't see them changing any of that, at least any time soon. Those weren't done with just CA in mind as I recall. On a related note, did S&W just recently switch to putting the ILS on everything? As of just a couple months ago you could still get revolvers without it. As far as I know they are still making no lock versions.

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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:16 pm

LastBoyScout wrote:The ILS (internal locking system) on S&W revolvers has nothing to do with CA law. Many other revolvers as sold here that do not have it like Ruger and Taurus and Rossi.

The issue is Micro stamping is now required for all new models of semi auto pistols that can be put on the CA approved list.

I read a lot of the stories about this and they all do not understand the issue. It is not the guns that the companies already have on the list but new ones.

This has and will continue to be an issue in CA.

We can still buy Glocks as long as they were on the list before 2014 and most are except the Gen 4 guns.

So we go on here in CA and find more loopholes to buy what we want.


LastBoyScout
I have a question regarding the approved list. Am I correct in understanding that (currently) a non-approved Gen 4 Glock can be sold, but it has to have some special single shot barrel?
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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by raptor » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:22 pm

I am not an expert on this subject but I thought the new CA applied only to semi-autos that were re-designed or modified and/or "upgraded". Thus if they leave their design "as is" AND it is on the "blessed by the state" list they do not have to comply with the new requirements.

If that is the case (not sure :?) then any changes would be unlikely.

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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by Merovech » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:41 pm

I wasnt aware I could purchase a current production S&W without an ILS (unless I modded it and plugged it myself which I dont want to do), if I can, please provide me with that info... cause I haven't seen one in either Oklahoma or Texas.

The way the regulators in CA have 'read' the law is, that is a manufacturer tweaks ANYTHING on the model, lets say, they change the cross hatch pattern on the hammer for instance, or change the number of coils on a spring. That now constitutes a NEW model and makes the law take effect for that 'new' line of firearms.

I'm just not a fan of the ILS and wont buy a revolver with one because putting a random hole in the frame of my 44 or 357 seems like a bad idea to me. I think my 1911 has one, but its connected to the mainspring housing that I can take out on a whim if I choose, which gives me a choice. I was hoping that CA stuck their nose deep enough in it that it would backfire and I could buy a revolver without an ILS soon. :awesome:
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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by alptraum » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:58 pm

Merovech wrote:I wasnt aware I could purchase a current production S&W without an ILS (unless I modded it and plugged it myself which I dont want to do), if I can, please provide me with that info... cause I haven't seen one in either Oklahoma or Texas.



I'm just not a fan of the ILS and wont buy a revolver with one because putting a random hole in the frame of my 44 or 357 seems like a bad idea to me. I think my 1911 has one, but its connected to the mainspring housing that I can take out on a whim if I choose, which gives me a choice. I was hoping that CA stuck their nose deep enough in it that it would backfire and I could buy a revolver without an ILS soon. :awesome:
I still see at least J frames with no lock. Saw some in a store recently. And I have one (a 442) with a factory test fire case dated 8/15/2013.. The S&W site lists some no lock models, I'm not sure how many. Get better at searching, they are out there :)

PS - Though they may not offer a model you want with no lock. Best of luck.

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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by ArmchairRacer » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:30 pm

I bought a SW442 recently with no lock, no idea how long it had been sitting on the shelf though.

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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by ultra magnus » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:02 pm

Smith still does no lock runs, just not often enough.

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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by firedog25 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:55 pm

I just picked up a Smith&Wesson M&P 45 this week. I planned on getting one, just not this soon. Unfortunately legislature forced my hand so I was stuck doing what I had to. Word has it they're still going to sell the M&P Shield 9mm because the law states if there are ANY changes to the firearm then it has to be resubmitted for approval with current laws. Still, I wanted to get a Ruger KSR45 too so I'm boned on that one.

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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by PistolPete » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:10 pm

The new Glock 41 and 42 won't be sold in Cali for the same reason. The manufacturers cannot (or perhaps choose not, depending on who wrote the article) comply with the requirement to microstamp and therefore cannot certify. All pistols sold in CA must be certified, and this law almost guarantees no new designs will be able to, at least in the short term.
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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by abelru » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:45 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
LastBoyScout wrote:The ILS (internal locking system) on S&W revolvers has nothing to do with CA law. Many other revolvers as sold here that do not have it like Ruger and Taurus and Rossi.
...
So we go on here in CA and find more loopholes to buy what we want.


LastBoyScout
I have a question regarding the approved list. Am I correct in understanding that (currently) a non-approved Gen 4 Glock can be sold, but it has to have some special single shot barrel?
There was a loophole slipped in the DOJ roster regs which exempted any pistol which was classified as a "single shot" firearm, allowing the sale of these guns without needing CA DOJ approval. Some sellers are willing to exploit this loophole by permanently altering a magazine such that it is incapable of accepting any rounds, rendering the firearm a single feed gun. The firearm is DROS'd and classified on the record as "single shot" and no longer must be 'on-list'. Once you leave the store with your 'single-shot conversion' firearm, you can eject the dummy mag and go about using it in a normal fashion.

There is no need to change the barrel, at least on any of the single shot exemption pistols I have seen sold.

Interestingly, while the sale of off-list pistols is strictly prohibited, the possession and use of them is not, even when reconfigured and used with standard (10 round) mags.

I have seen everything from Gen4's to AR platform pistols sold in this manner. The only limiting factor that I have encountered is finding a seller savvy enough and comfortable enough to exploit this loophole.
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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by HalfElf » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:40 am

When did 10rds become standard?. All of mine came with 13, or 15 rd magazines, and 10rds was mandated during the AWB which sunseted a decade ago.
Part of the art of debating is setting the terms of the argument, and we have done a poor job of that, because the media is a willing accomplice along with the people who want to he in charge.
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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by abelru » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:18 am

HalfElf wrote:When did 10rds become standard?. All of mine came with 13, or 15 rd magazines, and 10rds was mandated during the AWB which sunseted a decade ago.
Part of the art of debating is setting the terms of the argument, and we have done a poor job of that, because the media is a willing accomplice along with the people who want to he in charge.
This discussion is within the context of California law only. 10 rounds is, and has been the 'standard' here in CA for many years, despite the sunset of AWB.
I understand the push to redefine the semantics of the argument to better bolster the 'anti-anti' position on magazine capacity. But the fact of the matter is that here in Cali, 10 rounds is (unfortunately) legally defined as the 'standard' for the state.
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Re: S&W and Ruger no longer selling to California future of

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:20 am

HalfElf wrote:When did 10rds become standard?. All of mine came with 13, or 15 rd magazines, and 10rds was mandated during the AWB which sunseted a decade ago.
Part of the art of debating is setting the terms of the argument, and we have done a poor job of that, because the media is a willing accomplice along with the people who want to he in charge.
Standard is what comes with the gun from the factory. For Cali, that's 10rd or less, and has been for quite some time.
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