S&W 45 series general disposition

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S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:32 am

I've been wanting a single stack 45 for a while just to fill the 45 niche. Had my mind set on a sig 220, but Im really digging either s&w 4513, 16 or cs45. Subjectivly they work better for me in grip, size, controls. Well except for the slide mounted decocker, but I'm partial to dao anyway.

Handled a performance center special 45 (thats the really nice 4513)yesterday. Used for 800 bucks. Really liked it. Gonna check the gunshow tomorow (bleh).

What do yins think? Any models to be wary of? Any to look for?

I don't want a 1911 or another striker fired gun. Those bases are covered.

Thanks
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by northernxposure » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:00 pm

There's the cheaper 457 if you can find one - about the same size as the 39xx series in a single stack. S&W still makes mags for them but they're pricy.

I'd show preference for an LEO trade in if possible, they were made without the mag disconnect and typically have old nightsights you can have reloaded cheaply. Solid little things, if I spotted one for a good price, but I'm still a fan of 3rd gen Smiths.

YMMV.

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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:12 pm

I thought all the 45xx were 3rd gen. I looked at the 457 online, but I couldn't find one in person. Its a candidate.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by 400 Grains » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:34 pm

northernxposure wrote:There's the cheaper 457 if you can find one - about the same size as the 39xx series in a single stack. S&W still makes mags for them but they're pricy.

I'd show preference for an LEO trade in if possible, they were made without the mag disconnect
The LE S&W's usually have the mag disconnect, most departments didn't specially order them without it.

Disconnecting them isn't difficult.
northernxposure wrote:and typically have old nightsights you can have reloaded cheaply.
If I remember right, the price difference for having Trijicon replace the tritium in a set of night sights was almost the same as buying a new set by the time you paid freight.

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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:53 pm

Found one.

I didn't make it to the gunshow back when I first made this thread, but I did today (and it actually wasn't that bad surprisingly). I found a 4553TSW for 580 out the door with 1 7rnd mag andplastic case. The shop selling it said it came from a guy who developed dementia and his family had him sell his guns. Not the way I'd prefer to find a gun but it was there. I don't think its ever been fired. There was zero evidence that showed a rnd ever going through it. Slide face looked like a mirror.

Now to pick up the used mag a found locally, order 1 or 2 new ones and find a good iwb for it.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by rcab87 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:12 am

There are 3 number Value Line 3rd gen guns. The 915, 910, 411, 457 and many others were the same as their 4 digit brothers such as the 4506 and 5906, but had simpler slide machining and were mostly all black with carbon steel slides and aluminum or carbon steel frames. They use the same grips, magazines, and internals but have different sights. I have a 915 with Trijicon nights sights, and it is so well machined that it will feed empty cases out of a magazine. New mags are expensive, but used mags can be found at gun shows and are plentiful due to the popularity of the 3rd gens with Law Enforcement.

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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by Hoppy » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:25 pm

I like my Sig 220 over my friends SW Single stack .45 ( THINK its a 4506 but not sure). Being from the Springfield area, iv shot a number of SW guns at the factory including the 945 ( performance metal frame) and i feel the 220 is superior by far. Theres also a compact 220

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/dowournewcat.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; often offers 220s and 220c cheap.

or consider the M&P 45. fantastic gun in its own
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:34 am

It's already on lay-a-way. I like the 220, and the are they only sig esque pistols I like, but my grip retards the slide stop on them. Theyre also more expensive and are easy to come by. The smiths, not so much, yet alone a like new 4553tsw for 580. The second runner up was a sig245 da/sa for 550. It was carried a lot and has xs big dots which I don't like.

I do have a few reservations with the smith though. I like warren tactical sights and I'm going to have to explore getting a pair fitted. Holsters are hard to come by for it, but there is a custom kydex/leather guy about a mile down the road and crossbreed makes one for it. The dao pull is great, but the reset has an intermittent click before the actual reset. Ill have to work around that, and a gunsmith buddy says that will smooth out some anyway. Other than that, I think I got a winner.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by Hoppy » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:07 pm

So what Smith do you have on order? a M&P?


The reason your having a hard time finding support for metal frame Smiths is because the ended production at least a year or two ago.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:03 pm

I think they went out of prodiction before that even, like in 06 or something. That was a selling point for me. I see 220s everywhere. The older smiths, not so much. So when I found this one I went for it.

A uspsa buddy/gun smith said he lobes them. We almost exactly have the same taste in guns so I took his advice on it too. That and getting hands on pushed me over the edge of buying one. Ihope to pick it up this week maybe.

After shopping around a little more, I don't think I'll have trouble getting what I need for it.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by SNAFU-M1A » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:11 am

I love me some S&W 3rd gen 45's! I have 2 4506s, a 4566TSW & a CS45D. I used to have a sig P220 but I hate Sigs DA & SA trigger pull. They are soooo long. The SA on the S&W is sweet & the DA is very smooth. The 3rd gens are a well kept secret & great buy for the money, but they have started to dry up & the prices have shot up for them.

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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by Badger24 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:33 am

I would get the Smith 45, I had a 4516 years ago and still can't believe I sold it.
I would try to talk them down on the price though $580 seems a bit high.

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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by Radio guy » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:20 pm

I have a family member that is with a major east coast PD and they were issued some of the original S&W MP 45s. I got to take his .45 to a range and it was a complete POS in my opinion, it didn't feel very good in my hands, I could not shoot it as accurate as I'm used to and the owner couldn't hit shit with it either and he is payed to carry it. Kind of scary. We also had a little Ruger LC9 with us and I could shoot circles around the S&W with that little non impressive thing.

The PD that owned the S&W that we were using also had many problems with the guns with pins backing out of the frame that caused the guns to not be removable from the holsters, etc. S&W agreed to some deal where they gave them the newest versions, not sure if any $ was involved but the PD was so disgusted with the guns they traded them all in on brand new Glocks and never looked back.

On the other hand I have a Sig P220 which the OP mentioned and its a very good gun, shoots and handles circles around the S&W MP45. I also have a Springfield XDM in .40 and its by far my favorite large frame hand gun of all time. If the OP has not seen or felt an XDM in .45 I would suggest he try one on for size before committing to anything else.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by Catshooter » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:34 am

If the Performance Center "special 45" was a Shorty 45, $800 is a steal for it if it's in good or better condition. Smith made 640 of them. Clean with the box and they go for $1100 and up. A Shorty 45 will group into an inch and a half (with the right ammo) at 50 yards.

Most third gen Smiths will feed empties from the mag. They are that reliable.

If it's still for sale, buy it!


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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by Smash05 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:22 pm

Radio guy wrote:I have a family member that is with a major east coast PD and they were issued some of the original S&W MP 45s. I got to take his .45 to a range and it was a complete POS in my opinion, it didn't feel very good in my hands, I could not shoot it as accurate as I'm used to and the owner couldn't hit shit with it either and he is payed to carry it. Kind of scary. We also had a little Ruger LC9 with us and I could shoot circles around the S&W with that little non impressive thing.

The PD that owned the S&W that we were using also had many problems with the guns with pins backing out of the frame that caused the guns to not be removable from the holsters, etc. S&W agreed to some deal where they gave them the newest versions, not sure if any $ was involved but the PD was so disgusted with the guns they traded them all in on brand new Glocks and never looked back.

On the other hand I have a Sig P220 which the OP mentioned and its a very good gun, shoots and handles circles around the S&W MP45. I also have a Springfield XDM in .40 and its by far my favorite large frame hand gun of all time. If the OP has not seen or felt an XDM in .45 I would suggest he try one on for size before committing to anything else.
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Which East Coast PD, just curious. MA State Police loves them, improvement over the SIG DAK 40's that they ditched.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by Kelvar » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:14 pm

I have a S&W 4566 that I carried for years. I loved it and found little to criticize, other than the weight and limited magazine capacity. It is great for nostalgia and I'll never part with it, but there are better, more modern, choices if one is looking for a self-defense pistol.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by killemall » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:57 pm

I am a SIG and S&W 3rd gen fan. I have a 4506-1 and a 4566 (and some other 3rd gen guns). I love them. That being said I carry SIG almost exclusively. This is based mostly on capacity as I have NEVER had a single problem with my 3rd gens and would not hesitate to rely on any of them. I own more of them than I do SIGs.

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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by steppenwolf » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:52 pm

The S&W 3rd Gen 45XX and 10XX-series were highly reliable, overbuilt tanks. Both series were single-stacks.
I have experience with models in both lines, but personally favor the 10mm pistols.

That said, about 5 yrs ago I picked up a very reasonably priced "LE trade-in" 4566. This is the 4.25" Commander-length little brother of the full-size S&W 4506 that Sonney Crockett carried on the final season of Miami Vice. The gun came refurbished with new vials in the Trijicon sights and new springs, and sported the black hammer and black trigger. But the barrel was quite dirty and there was holster wear on the slide up near the muzzle.

After cleaning it throughly, I found the barrel was almost pristine looking, a sure sign of an LE pistol that got "carried a lot but shot very little," except at qual time. Very little discernable wear elsewhere other than at the front of the slide. I put about 500-rds thru it, mostly FMJ but also HPs which all fed w/o a hitch. Accuracy was excellent, probably due to the smooth trigger pull. Sights were dead on.

Later on, I sent it off to Tripp Research for hard-chroming, ... because, ... well, just because.

Image

Long story short: if you come across one of these 3rd Gen big bore pistols in decent shape, LE trade-in or not, jump on it.

Hope this helps ... 8-)

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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by killemall » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:29 am

steppenwolf wrote:
Long story short: if you come across one of these 3rd Gen big bore pistols in decent shape, LE trade-in or not, jump on it.

Hope this helps ... 8-)
I agree with steppenwolf. The used 4566 I bought is a tack driver and one of the smoothest triggers I have ever shot (think it may have had a trigger job). The 45xx still bring a good price on gunbroker too so it isn't just me being a fanboy.

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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by Radio guy » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:18 am

Hartford, CT. Very embarrassing for S&W but after all the problems they had to move on. I think its great they got all new replacement weapons from S&W for free or near free then immediately traded them in to Glock for I believe G22s.
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Smash05 wrote:
Radio guy wrote:I have a family member that is with a major east coast PD and they were issued some of the original S&W MP 45s. I got to take his .45 to a range and it was a complete POS in my opinion, it didn't feel very good in my hands, I could not shoot it as accurate as I'm used to and the owner couldn't hit shit with it either and he is payed to carry it. Kind of scary. We also had a little Ruger LC9 with us and I could shoot circles around the S&W with that little non impressive thing.

The PD that owned the S&W that we were using also had many problems with the guns with pins backing out of the frame that caused the guns to not be removable from the holsters, etc. S&W agreed to some deal where they gave them the newest versions, not sure if any $ was involved but the PD was so disgusted with the guns they traded them all in on brand new Glocks and never looked back.

On the other hand I have a Sig P220 which the OP mentioned and its a very good gun, shoots and handles circles around the S&W MP45. I also have a Springfield XDM in .40 and its by far my favorite large frame hand gun of all time. If the OP has not seen or felt an XDM in .45 I would suggest he try one on for size before committing to anything else.
Radio Guy

Which East Coast PD, just curious. MA State Police loves them, improvement over the SIG DAK 40's that they ditched.

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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:54 pm

I put it on layaway back in Dec. Due to some job related stuff I had to do I wasn't able to, pick it up until last week. To remind folks its a 4553 tsw, a single stack .45 DAO with Novak sights and currently 3 x7 rnd mags.

This gun is tits. I can cycle a full mag of empties through it. I was sporadically loading empties in mags while shooting too and it would feed them when firing as well. The rail actually makes a half decent support thumb shelf and ditto for the grip for the firing thumb. I thought the reset would take some getting used to, but it never bugged me. Its also accurate as hell.

If I can find another 3rd gen single stack comact in 9mm ill pick it up too. I really like the lady smiths.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:20 pm

Kelvar wrote:It is great for nostalgia and I'll never part with it, but there are better, more modern, choices if one is looking for a self-defense pistol.
That's in the eye of the beholder, very subjective. I don't have to alter my agressive thumbs forward grip with this like I do with a sig in order to mitigate hindering the slide stop. My hands lock into the 4553 automotically vs the sig. I'm fine with smith and sig DAO triggers, but I've never seen a factory sig DA/SA that could come close to a S&W's. I wanted ansingle stack .45 that wasn't a 1911 or glock 36. That pretty much left sig and smith (I wish kahr made a steel framed 45 though). The 220s a fine gun, so is the 3rd gen. the 3rd gen was better for me though. It will be on my hip this winter.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by Kelvar » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:29 am

olbaid_dratsab wrote:
Kelvar wrote:It is great for nostalgia and I'll never part with it, but there are better, more modern, choices if one is looking for a self-defense pistol.
That's in the eye of the beholder, very subjective. I don't have to alter my agressive thumbs forward grip with this like I do with a sig in order to mitigate hindering the slide stop. My hands lock into the 4553 automotically vs the sig. I'm fine with smith and sig DAO triggers, but I've never seen a factory sig DA/SA that could come close to a S&W's. I wanted ansingle stack .45 that wasn't a 1911 or glock 36. That pretty much left sig and smith (I wish kahr made a steel framed 45 though). The 220s a fine gun, so is the 3rd gen. the 3rd gen was better for me though. It will be on my hip this winter.
Hey--you left out the important part of my quote! :lol: I said I love them and carried one for years and had little to criticize. There are definitely some subjective components to selecting a self-defense pistol. It may be that those subjective factors are enough to win you over. I think it is an excellent choice and will serve you well, as long as you're aware of its limitations. I thought I'd never go with anything but a traditional DA/SA pistol for self-defense, but I finally came over to the dark side of the modern striker-fired pistols. To me (and I'm speaking only for myself), the transition from DA to SA was always somewhat awkward, even though I spent time training to overcome it. My first shot was never as good as it could have been, unless I took longer than would be practical for self-defense. Given that most gunfights involve only about three rounds exchanged in total, that was something that bothered me. It may be that I needed even more training, but that could be said about most of us.

Some people may not experience what I perceived to be limitations with the design. But I think, in general, more recent designs are a better choice for most people--which means exceptions exist. Also, while I love the older steel frame Smiths (I need to post some pictures some day to show just how much I love them--I've got four of them) I think most people's experience is that the platform is not as reliable as say Glocks or the S&W M&P line. The most spectacular malfunction I ever had (with a pistol) was with a 5906 with a factory magazine. Granted, it was a police trade in, so maybe that's forgivable. At any rate, I stand by my position that better choices exist, but only in the academic sense. I would feel well-armed with a 4566 and would sleep peacefully if that were my only handgun. Given the personal nature of selecting a self-defense pistol, I think it is an excellent choice.
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Re: S&W 45 series general disposition

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:28 am

Ha, ya I tried cherry picking again, but its really hard on a Galaxy tablet so I gave up on it.

My allegiance will always be to striker fired guns. I never noticed a hard transistion from striker to DAO. Striker to
DA/SA or just SA, ya that sucks. found that out at a uspsa match, shooting singlestack for the first time right after running all the stages in production. Now that I've been shooting both divisions for a few years I can make the switch, but ill be damned if I don't do some extra dry fires with my single stack gun first. But hell yeah, striker fired ftw.
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