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Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:37 pm
by Doctorr Fabulous
Sorry, the training thing was me just remembering the good old days.

If you like the 92/M9, I say go for it. Fuckloads of cheap mags and gear for it (being a major service pistol for a few decades does that) and the kinks are certainly well known. Upgrade the sights and get the A1 (light rail) model incase you wanna throw a light on it later. Or now.

You already got a belt/holster set up in mind?

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:41 pm
by feedthedog
The 92 is a fine firearm if your hands are big enough to reach everything (mine are not) and you are willing to carry the weight. Like I said earlier, I did not like the weight when it came to carrying it. You are totally right about it soaking up recoil though.

If you want it, then go for it. Doc is right, accessories are plentiful and cheap.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:01 pm
by Las Vegan
Between the two? Beretta.

Between the Beretta and a G19? G19.

Everything's already been said. The 92 is a great gun for its intended purpose, but it's a bitch to carry. Plus I won't carry a pistol with an external safety.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:35 pm
by Ansgar
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Sorry, the training thing was me just remembering the good old days.

If you like the 92/M9, I say go for it. Fuckloads of cheap mags and gear for it (being a major service pistol for a few decades does that) and the kinks are certainly well known. Upgrade the sights and get the A1 (light rail) model incase you wanna throw a light on it later. Or now.

You already got a belt/holster set up in mind?
I'm planning on the plain belt in black from Crossbreed and either a Supertuck or something from Gun_Nut_2K1, depends on prices and designs, but I've seen only rave reviews for both. Any opinions on Crossbreed and Gun_Nut products?

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:43 pm
by Doctorr Fabulous
Ansgar wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Sorry, the training thing was me just remembering the good old days.

If you like the 92/M9, I say go for it. Fuckloads of cheap mags and gear for it (being a major service pistol for a few decades does that) and the kinks are certainly well known. Upgrade the sights and get the A1 (light rail) model incase you wanna throw a light on it later. Or now.

You already got a belt/holster set up in mind?
I'm planning on the plain belt in black from Crossbreed and either a Supertuck or something from Gun_Nut_2K1, depends on prices and designs, but I've seen only rave reviews for both. Any opinions on Crossbreed and Gun_Nut products?
Neither, from me. I ordered a belt from SOE (http://www.originalsoegear.com/) and my G26 rides in a Comptac Infidel. I wanted an Ares belt and a Raven gatholster, but I would have ordered the belt in January and gotten it in June. The Comptac/SOE combo was cheaper, faster, in more colors. I've heard good things about Crossbreed in the past, but never touched one myself.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:59 pm
by Ten Eight
An M9 carried SOB? You're a better man than me. My back would hurt from that.

Definitely buy a quality belt and holster. Especially the belt. I bought a good holster initally when I started carrying, but didn't trash my Walmart belt. After buying a stiff belt there was a night and day difference. A quality holster/belt combo will go a long way towards minimizing those 33+ ounces. There is a whole holster forum at DefensiveCarry.com.

I think you'll find that you'll tire from carrying the heavy gun all the time, and won't carry it as much. Look at the PX4 or one of the Witness compacts, if you truly want those features.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:02 am
by Doctorr Fabulous
Ten Eight wrote:An M9 carried SOB? You're a better man than me. My back would hurt from that.

Definitely consider buying a quality belt and holster. There is a whole holster forum at DefensiveCarry.com.

I think you'll find that you'll tire from carrying the heavy gun all the time, and won't carry it as much. Look at the PX4 or one of the Witness compacts, if you truly want those features.
OI carried a fullsize 1911. I didn't get tired of it (though I carried at 2 o'clock) until it malfed on me. Bad. Same story with the Sig, except for the lack of malfs with it.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:04 am
by Ten Eight
I'm kind of a hypocrite though. I carry a G17 IWB 3 hoeclock with a plus two base plate, TLR1s, and a heavy kydex holster sometimes, and I deal with it. Kinda.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:08 am
by Ten Eight
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Ten Eight wrote:An M9 carried SOB? You're a better man than me. My back would hurt from that.

Definitely consider buying a quality belt and holster. There is a whole holster forum at DefensiveCarry.com.

I think you'll find that you'll tire from carrying the heavy gun all the time, and won't carry it as much. Look at the PX4 or one of the Witness compacts, if you truly want those features.
OI carried a fullsize 1911. I didn't get tired of it (though I carried at 2 o'clock) until it malfed on me. Bad. Same story with the Sig, except for the lack of malfs with it.
Heh. We could start calling a malf a MILF . A Malfunction I'd Like To Fix.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:04 am
by lokifz1
Beretta 92 all the way great gun.

If your wanting to do ccw then look for a beretta centurion. It has the full size frame and magazine with a compact shorter slide. A centurion 9mm was the first of my 5 berettas still have them all.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:25 am
by Mikeyboy
IceWing wrote:So, I bought a Taurus PT92 when I was 21. I'm now 37.

When I pull the trigger, it goes bang, and the round goes where I aimed it.

It fits my hand well.

Now, I do have to say, I had an issue about 6-7 years ago with the shell extractor. At this time I'd probably put a few thousand rounds through it (ammo used to be cheaper *laugh*). I took it to the local gunshop near work, they sent it into Taurus, who made the repairs and sent it back to me. They fixed the problem, and had a fairly quick turn around time. Good customer service as far as I'm concerned (and yes, a LIFETIME free repairs policy... all I did was pay shipping one way.)

It's still going bang when I pull the trigger.

The fact of the matter is, people have biases, some based on reality, some on perception. At the end of the day, you have to buy what you're comfortable with, for whatever reason you have. The important thing is that you get something, and then you practice with it.

Ice
+1 just a quick history lesson about Taurus. Beretta built a factory in Brazil as part of a military contract in the 70's to make military firearms. When the contract was not renewed in the 1980, Beretta was stuck with a factory full of machines and the expense to ship it all back to Italy. Taurus which in the 1970's was the South American firearms manufacture of S&W and who recently broke ties with S&W after a buyout in 1977, stepped in and offered to buy Beretta's factory, tooling and re-hire the original workforce. Beretta agreed, so essential the PT92 with some very minor modifications/ improvements is essentially a Beretta 92.

Granted Taurus went through some bad growing pains, but I would say in the last several years they have really stepped it up in quality and design. Its funny how Colt, Sig, Ruger, and S&W can screw up royally and get a pass while Taurus gets dumped on. Come on the S&W Sigma, and the Walther P22/pot metal mess? Sig's Exter plant screwups? What about Colt in the 1980's and 90's? Ruger making Mini-14 in the 80's and 90's with tired run down machines, and thin barrels so that the rifle barrel flexed during rapid fire and gave you a shotgun pattern at 100 yards.

The Taurus PT92 is a solid, acurate, and reliable gun for the money. I would bet my life on it. While Taurus has some stinkers, some of their designs are pretty good.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:40 am
by funky3450
Nothing wrong with the taurus. I cut my teeth on one as my first adult gun purchase. prolly 15k thru it and none if very few malfs thru the entire time i had it. fit and finish were better with the beretta though. beretta parts and mags will always be available, some taurus parts don't mix. if ya have the money then beretta might be a better choice, but it's not because "those fucking taurus fuckers" are not good guns.

my favorite gun in the metal frame duty catagory are the later S&W 59 series. my old 659 was my fastest and softest shooter. should have kept it.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:51 am
by MaconCJ7
Mikeyboy wrote: Granted Taurus went through some bad growing pains, but I would say in the last several years they have really stepped it up in quality and design. Its funny how Colt, Sig, Ruger, and S&W can screw up royally and get a pass while Taurus gets dumped on. Come on the S&W Sigma, and the Walther P22/pot metal mess? Sig's Exter plant screwups? What about Colt in the 1980's and 90's? Ruger making Mini-14 in the 80's and 90's with tired run down machines, and thin barrels so that the rifle barrel flexed during rapid fire and gave you a shotgun pattern at 100 yards.

The Taurus PT92 is a solid, acurate, and reliable gun for the money. I would bet my life on it. While Taurus has some stinkers, some of their designs are pretty good.

Taurus gets a bad rap from overall CS and firearm issues. I don't own a Taurus, but with the horror stories about their customer relations, I never will. I think of them like Gateway computers. You can't pay me to own one. I am very glad that you have great experience with your PT92. That is truly a good thing, as I don't wish ill on very many people. Perhaps their QC is getting better. They said they were going to do better. Time will tell.

The biggest difference between Taurus and the others you mentioned is that Taurus had a short reputation with good firearms. That reputation quickly turned bad. S&W, Walther, Ruger, et al, may have turned out a bad product a time or two, but they are overall reputable companies. Consumers understand the bad idea fairy will turn out crap every once in a while. Each time it does, the company will eventually admit the mistake and actually fix it, not just give lip service. At this point, Taurus has paid a good lip service, the community is still awaiting longevity reports to learn if they followed through. No one is holding their breath. It would be nice if Taurus started producing quality products, but they won't be top shelf no matter what.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:09 am
by funky3450
MaconCJ7 wrote:
Mikeyboy wrote: Granted Taurus went through some bad growing pains, but I would say in the last several years they have really stepped it up in quality and design. Its funny how Colt, Sig, Ruger, and S&W can screw up royally and get a pass while Taurus gets dumped on. Come on the S&W Sigma, and the Walther P22/pot metal mess? Sig's Exter plant screwups? What about Colt in the 1980's and 90's? Ruger making Mini-14 in the 80's and 90's with tired run down machines, and thin barrels so that the rifle barrel flexed during rapid fire and gave you a shotgun pattern at 100 yards.

The Taurus PT92 is a solid, acurate, and reliable gun for the money. I would bet my life on it. While Taurus has some stinkers, some of their designs are pretty good.

Taurus gets a bad rap from overall CS and firearm issues. I don't own a Taurus, but with the horror stories about their customer relations, I never will. I think of them like Gateway computers. You can't pay me to own one. I am very glad that you have great experience with your PT92. That is truly a good thing, as I don't wish ill on very many people. Perhaps their QC is getting better. They said they were going to do better. Time will tell.

The biggest difference between Taurus and the others you mentioned is that Taurus had a short reputation with good firearms. That reputation quickly turned bad. S&W, Walther, Ruger, et al, may have turned out a bad product a time or two, but they are overall reputable companies. Consumers understand the bad idea fairy will turn out crap every once in a while. Each time it does, the company will eventually admit the mistake and actually fix it, not just give lip service. At this point, Taurus has paid a good lip service, the community is still awaiting longevity reports to learn if they followed through. No one is holding their breath. It would be nice if Taurus started producing quality products, but they won't be top shelf no matter what.
i know a few sigma, and sig 250 buyers that can testify how "great" that customer/lip service is from "more reputable" companies.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:21 pm
by Doctorr Fabulous
Every company has a fuck up in QC or CS now and again. Even Glocks break. Sig got their dick jumped for the P250, their rifles, and some of the generation-change issues. HK is still loathed by many for shitty CS. Taurus has a terrible rep, even in Florida. They are literally in Miami, I can drive there, but they are still dicking people over. I just helped a guy the other day who had a NIB 24/7 break at round 200 (bad spring, from what I could tell) who couldn't get a straight answer from their CS department.

That's the difference. Frequency. Beretta has a much better history and track record than Taurus, so the Beretta wins. Nobody is saying every Taurus is a piece of shit, or that every QC claim will require you to mail in a segment of your colon, just that between the two, Taurus has a track record of fucking shit up. I have an Oly Arms upper that works, doesn't mean I get upset when people shit-talk Oly (they deserve it) because I know that I have a unicorn, and I would not, knowing the track record, recommend one to someone as a duty gat.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:08 am
by Browning 35
Ansgar wrote:I'm planning on the plain belt in black from Crossbreed and either a Supertuck or something from Gun_Nut_2K1, depends on prices and designs, but I've seen only rave reviews for both. Any opinions on Crossbreed and Gun_Nut products?
I don't have a Crossbreed, but I have one of Gun_Nuts IWB holsters and it's worked out well for me.

Fits a CZ or a BHP equally well.

It's a lefty and I'm right handed, so I just use it as a SOB with the mag/butt pointing at 3 o'clock. When I get in a vehicle sitting is kind of uncomfortable, so I take it out and put it in an easily reached compartment. If I'm going to be going in and out of places where I can't have a gun that's the holster I use, it works out because of that clip. It's not made to be a SOB though, that's just how I'm using it.

Image

Other than that I generally use Galco, DeSantis, Kramer or one cheapo Blackhawk nylon clip IWB R_Side. Besides the Gun_Nut and the Blackhawk (which also has a clip) they all have loops or snap-able loops. IMO that's a far more stable design than a clip if you're going to be putting the gun on and it's going to be staying in the same position all day, but the loops make it more of a pain in the ass to take on and off. Depends on what you want to do, but I like the clips for some modes of carry.

I've heard good reviews on the Crossbreed, can't say anything from a personal perspective.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:05 pm
by Haji
You have to carry it, so get whatever you want and makes you happy.

Here's why I'll whip you with a G19, though: 11 ounces lighter means I'll always beat you out of the holster, and my follow up shots will have shorter splits because the trigger pull is always the same. DA/SA in the era of striker fired pistols is a "I can't get there from here" choice. Additionally, EVERY holster design that's worth owning is always available for Glocks first, because the G19 is the most popular handgun in the world, followed by the G17.

Again, go with whatever makes you happy, but make sure you've got all the facts to make the comparisons, and don't be afraid to change if you're finding yourself not wanting to carry the gun you have. If you need it, any gun is better than no gun, but the gun you carry all the time is better than any gun. Other than recommendations, I don't know how to reach that without trial and error experience. I asked a lot of questions of professionals that knew lots more than me, acted on their recommendations, and gained experience from it.

Good luck in your quest.

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:16 pm
by Tommy Tran
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Ansgar wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Sorry, the training thing was me just remembering the good old days.

If you like the 92/M9, I say go for it. Fuckloads of cheap mags and gear for it (being a major service pistol for a few decades does that) and the kinks are certainly well known. Upgrade the sights and get the A1 (light rail) model incase you wanna throw a light on it later. Or now.

You already got a belt/holster set up in mind?
I'm planning on the plain belt in black from Crossbreed and either a Supertuck or something from Gun_Nut_2K1, depends on prices and designs, but I've seen only rave reviews for both. Any opinions on Crossbreed and Gun_Nut products?
Neither, from me. I ordered a belt from SOE (http://www.originalsoegear.com/) and my G26 rides in a Comptac Infidel. I wanted an Ares belt and a Raven gatholster, but I would have ordered the belt in January and gotten it in June. The Comptac/SOE combo was cheaper, faster, in more colors. I've heard good things about Crossbreed in the past, but never touched one myself.
You're gonna like that belt buddy! John and wife are easy to work with. This belt carries a load much nicer than most, makes a big diff at the end of the day with my edc stuff at least!

Re: Debating between Beretta 92 and Taurus PT92

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:54 pm
by ZomCon Sargeant
For CCW I would take a look at the Beretta PX4 instead. Lighter weight and snag free features.

I wouldn't go with the Taurus. Don't get me wrong the quality of Taurus is much better then years before but the Beretta 92fs is better. I have owned mine since 2001 and love it. I have never had one single FTF with it and it is very accurate. I have no problems shooting 2 1/2-3 inch groups at 50 feet (17 yards) with it.

Glock 17/19/21/30, M&P Series, and Beretta PX4 handguns are all great for CCW. I strongly recommend taking a look at the M&P Pro 9mm.