How to handle an encounter Leo's while OC??

by **MaconCJ7** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:18 pm

Quickest answer? Don't be a douche.

Longest answer? Don't be a douche.

Honestly, most LEO won't care less that you OC, as long as you're doing it legally. That means the very act, as well as location. I've encountered many LEO while OCing and they couldn't care less. I had one that was unaccustomed to it, and responded accordingly, and while I may have been a little arrogant, I wasn't a douche about it. Oddly, you have to have a carry permit for OC or CC, and the officer never asked to see it. That tells me he wasn't fully informed of the law. I also understand that LEO aren't lawyers. Most of them don't know the many aspects of the law they are asked to enforce. While I see that as a failure of the judicial system, I do not fault the officers. If you encounter an officer that you see as blatantly violating your rights, understand that he may understand the law differently (it may have recently changed, it could be different in his/her jurisdiction (which you're currently in), or he could very well be ignorant), but you should still respond calmly, and with respect. If you're confrontational, you won't win.

Yes, carrying is a right guaranteed by our Constitution. That doesn't mean that part of the Constitution has been as lawfully understood as the rest. Right, wrong, or indifferent, the way the laws are now are as they will be until they change. Follow the law. If you don't agree with the law (too strict, or not strict enough), say so with your vote, not by breaking the law or by arguing with police. LEO doesn't create, defend, or change the law. They enforce it.

by **TN-Shooter** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:16 am

MaconCJ7 wrote:Quickest answer? Don't be a douche.

Longest answer? Don't be a douche.

Honestly, most LEO won't care less that you OC, as long as you're doing it legally. That means the very act, as well as location. I've encountered many LEO while OCing and they couldn't care less. I had one that was unaccustomed to it, and responded accordingly, and while I may have been a little arrogant, I wasn't a douche about it. Oddly, you have to have a carry permit for OC or CC, and the officer never asked to see it. That tells me he wasn't fully informed of the law. I also understand that LEO aren't lawyers. Most of them don't know the many aspects of the law they are asked to enforce. While I see that as a failure of the judicial system, I do not fault the officers. If you encounter an officer that you see as blatantly violating your rights, understand that he may understand the law differently (it may have recently changed, it could be different in his/her jurisdiction (which you're currently in), or he could very well be ignorant), but you should still respond calmly, and with respect. If you're confrontational, you won't win.

Yes, carrying is a right guaranteed by our Constitution. That doesn't mean that part of the Constitution has been as lawfully understood as the rest. Right, wrong, or indifferent, the way the laws are now are as they will be until they change. Follow the law. If you don't agree with the law (too strict, or not strict enough), say so with your vote, not by breaking the law or by arguing with police. LEO doesn't create, defend, or change the law. They enforce it.

Great unbiased neutral answer. Thank you. plus1 post.

by **Dasho101** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:25 pm

i stand. you strike me as the guy who will harass ppl for OC o there property. I'm guessing cause your with law enforcement that means you have some amazing extra powers. Also just to generalize about lLEO, you probably speed in your cruiser when not lights or sirens are on (aka speeding to the rest of the world) and would use your badge to get out of a ticket just cause you could. You also most likley are kind of a dick and dont have many non "cop" friends

now that you have read that and proly gotten all pissy why dont you realize its best not to generalize about the public. Now heres the reality. I dont know you, I proly wouldent want to know you just cause i doubt we would get along. Your proly a decent guy who has his opinions on things that would better be expressed in a different thread that you could start along the lines of "why not to open carry". I have zero issues with police officers and sherifs/deputies. I have many who are my close personal friends and that i have know literally seance before our balls dropped. Not one has ever had an issue with me open carrying, no were that i have ever gone has ever had an issue with me open carrying and many of the locations like when me and any of my friends come in both open and concield carrying because we often conduct our selfs more respectfully than others. but if you dont have any thing of use to contribute to this thread why not stop trolling and move on. you have established your opinion and it is im hazarding to guess "dont open carry in public even if it is legal in your area because i dont feel safe even if you have a permit, training (in the case of many of my friends years of experience ether as mil, former leo, or competition shooting) so i will detain you if i see you" end rant

by **lokifz1** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:13 am

Our open carry law goes into effect in November. So of course there has been discussions about how to handle it.

It will be different seeing Joe citizen with an oc gun on his hip. Cops do tend to fixate on people around them with guns goes with the job.

Since it will be legal there is no Pc for a stop. I know that the oc guy knows that.
The old man or soccer mom will still call it in. People will still insist a unit go make contact.

Hopefully everyone will understand this and get through the growing pains. I pray some oc guy full of himself doesn't mix with a guy from the shallow end of the blue pool and make everyone look stupid.

After all its just a gun. Its a tool its not magical. Don't let having one on you put you in a situatonyou should have walked away from

by **Spd164** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:59 am

The problem is that while you know you are one of the good guys, any beat cop worth his salt is going to assume you aren't until he's got reason to believe otherwise. That's where being polite and courteous and having a reasonable explination ready at hand is going to go a long way to making your encounter less intrusive and potentially ugly. Sure, you don't have to ID yourself, you don't even have to talk to the officer who stops you unless you are the subject of a criminal investigation. When a cop pulls up and gets out with you, your first thought may be "here we go, getting harassed for OC". Unfortunately for you the cop may be thinking "this guy matches the description of the armed robbery suspect from ten minutes ago twelve blocks over, and lo and behold he's carrying a gun even". Now, in such a scenario he would have every legal right to detain you for investigatory purposes, even though you know you have done nothing wrong. The cop's reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot, is (contrary to popular belief) enough to investigate those suspicions further. I see many many people who make what is a simple investigatory stop into something so much more involved, simply because they immediately assume that they are being harassed "for no good reason". Consider for a moment that there may in fact be a good reason that you are being stopped, then be polite, courteous, and cooperative, and have a ready explination for what (unfortunately in a lot of areas) is considered somewhat eccentric behavior. Good advice in this thread. I'm extremely proud to be a part of a forum that is capable of approaching this type of touchy issue with level heads and *GASP* a healthy dollop of common sense.

by **TN-Shooter** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:09 am

Dasho101 wrote:i stand. you strike me as the guy who will harass ppl for OC o there property. I'm guessing cause your with law enforcement that means you have some amazing extra powers. Also just to generalize about lLEO, you probably speed in your cruiser when not lights or sirens are on (aka speeding to the rest of the world) and would use your badge to get out of a ticket just cause you could. You also most likley are kind of a dick and dont have many non "cop" friends

now that you have read that and proly gotten all pissy why dont you realize its best not to generalize about the public. Now heres the reality. I dont know you, I proly wouldent want to know you just cause i doubt we would get along. Your proly a decent guy who has his opinions on things that would better be expressed in a different thread that you could start along the lines of "why not to open carry". I have zero issues with police officers and sherifs/deputies. I have many who are my close personal friends and that i have know literally seance before our balls dropped. Not one has ever had an issue with me open carrying, no were that i have ever gone has ever had an issue with me open carrying and many of the locations like when me and any of my friends come in both open and concield carrying because we often conduct our selfs more respectfully than others. but if you dont have any thing of use to contribute to this thread why not stop trolling and move on. you have established your opinion and it is im hazarding to guess "dont open carry in public even if it is legal in your area because i dont feel safe even if you have a permit, training (in the case of many of my friends years of experience ether as mil, former leo, or competition shooting) so i will detain you if i see you" end rant

As much as your "rant" doesn't even deserve a response, I will say one thing: I would love to draw you a picture on what my opinion is because I sense that would be the only way you would be able to understand. But I can't, so I will try to re-write. If you re-read my post it says I have no problem with hip-carry. Got it? I have a problem with people who OC and then complain when they get questioned by police. You know when you do it, there's a chance someone will call the police in fear.

by **charadeur** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:42 pm

I did not read every post but most seemed to give good advice. One thing I would add is you have to not only know state laws but at least here in MI some cities and townships do have laws against open carry. Also someone mentioned open carrying while in their car and being stopped. Just an FYI here in Michigan even if the firearm is in plan sight in the back window if it is in the vehicle it is considered concealed. I have a permit so I am okay but without one you are going to jail if it is in your vehicle and accessible to you. Also we are a must notify state if you are pulled over and concealed carrying.

by **charadeur** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:47 pm

iStandAlone wrote: I have a problem with people who OC and then complain when they get questioned by police. You know when you do it, there's a chance someone will call the police in fear.

That is kind of the whole point of open carry. People should not live in fear of other people doing legal activities. We have become a country that is afraid of too many hyperbolic fear mongers that are successfully limiting our freedoms.

by **TDW586** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:55 pm

Edit: misread the post I was responding to, my bad.

by **ptAltered** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:15 pm

Spd164 wrote:The problem is that while you know you are one of the good guys, any beat cop worth his salt is going to assume you aren't until he's got reason to believe otherwise.

Tough shit. I don't care what prejudices Mister Officer brings to the encounter, my rights aren't subject to his approval and my hopes that he's spending his spare time reading law reviews. If he is an officer in America and still thinks that the peasantry are guilty until proven innocent the guy needs to retire and begin a rewarding career of cooking sliced potatoes in hot oil.

That's where being polite and courteous and having a reasonable explination ready at hand is going to go a long way to making your encounter less intrusive and potentially ugly. Sure, you don't have to ID yourself, you don't even have to talk to the officer who stops you unless you are the subject of a criminal investigation. When a cop pulls up and gets out with you, your first thought may be "here we go, getting harassed for OC". Unfortunately for you the cop may be thinking "this guy matches the description of the armed robbery suspect from ten minutes ago twelve blocks over, and lo and behold he's carrying a gun even". Now, in such a scenario he would have every legal right to detain you for investigatory purposes, even though you know you have done nothing wrong. The cop's reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot, is (contrary to popular belief) enough to investigate those suspicions further.

If the cop acts like a decent civil human being, I'd go as far as possible to help him find out I'm not the perpetrator of the crime and get him on his way and solving the crime more quickly. If he acts like a jerk or like I've somehow slighted him by obeying the Constitution then he gets the "Am I under arrest, being detained or free to go?" speech as I'm dialing my attorney or turning on my camera phone.

I see many many people who make what is a simple investigatory stop into something so much more involved, simply because they immediately assume that they are being harassed "for no good reason". Consider for a moment that there may in fact be a good reason that you are being stopped, then be polite, courteous, and cooperative, and have a ready explination for what (unfortunately in a lot of areas) is considered somewhat eccentric behavior. Good advice in this thread. I'm extremely proud to be a part of a forum that is capable of approaching this type of touchy issue with level heads and *GASP* a healthy dollop of common sense.

Again, if the cop acts like a decent human being when he makes the encounter then I'll be nice to him. If he comes out of his car screaming at me, or threatening to shoot me for CCW (and we can find videos of this on YouTube to demonstrate what I mean), then I'll give the minimum amount of compliance to his directives and I won't volunteer any information.

by **ptAltered** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:18 pm

iStandAlone wrote:. If you re-read my post it says I have no problem with hip-carry. Got it? I have a problem with people who OC and then complain when they get questioned by police. You know when you do it, there's a chance someone will call the police in fear.

Just to clarify; you dislike people that obey the law and are upset that they're detained by the police?

by **Philpot** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:01 pm

The problem is that while you know you are one of the good guys, any beat cop worth his salt is going to assume you aren't until he's got reason to believe otherwise.

Right. Because every criminal in your county open carries, right? People with ill intentions love to call attention to themselves by carrying a gun on their hip. They never hide it or anything... /sarcasm

I'd be more worried about the guy with a bulge in the small of his back than the guy with a gun on his hip.

by **Nightwing** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:46 pm

Thanks to all who have posted. Most was good information, I kinda figured the don't be a douche was the common thread. So far I've only open carried in our local State Parks while hiking. Only encountered a park ranger who either missed the semi-concealed XD on my hip or dismissed it outright. I will say that I completely understand our local and state laws when it comes to Open carry. Washington is a very Pro carry state with the laws although things are starting to slide a bit in King county (the mayor imposed a gun ban in the "high gang" downtown area) I'll keep you all posted.

by **Dasho101** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:25 pm

iStandAlone wrote:
Dasho101 wrote:i stand. you strike me as the guy who will harass ppl for OC o there property. I'm guessing cause your with law enforcement that means you have some amazing extra powers. Also just to generalize about lLEO, you probably speed in your cruiser when not lights or sirens are on (aka speeding to the rest of the world) and would use your badge to get out of a ticket just cause you could. You also most likley are kind of a dick and dont have many non "cop" friends

now that you have read that and proly gotten all pissy why dont you realize its best not to generalize about the public. Now heres the reality. I dont know you, I proly wouldent want to know you just cause i doubt we would get along. Your proly a decent guy who has his opinions on things that would better be expressed in a different thread that you could start along the lines of "why not to open carry". I have zero issues with police officers and sherifs/deputies. I have many who are my close personal friends and that i have know literally seance before our balls dropped. Not one has ever had an issue with me open carrying, no were that i have ever gone has ever had an issue with me open carrying and many of the locations like when me and any of my friends come in both open and concield carrying because we often conduct our selfs more respectfully than others. but if you dont have any thing of use to contribute to this thread why not stop trolling and move on. you have established your opinion and it is im hazarding to guess "dont open carry in public even if it is legal in your area because i dont feel safe even if you have a permit, training (in the case of many of my friends years of experience ether as mil, former leo, or competition shooting) so i will detain you if i see you" end rant

As much as your "rant" doesn't even deserve a response, I will say one thing: I would love to draw you a picture on what my opinion is because I sense that would be the only way you would be able to understand. But I can't, so I will try to re-write. If you re-read my post it says I have no problem with hip-carry. Got it? I have a problem with people who OC and then complain when they get questioned by police. You know when you do it, there's a chance someone will call the police in fear.

yes you have no problems in parks, on private property,, ect. i oc damn near every day, walking down the street, in walmart, grocery store, getting gas. that to you seams like a no no. evry time i see a cop i smile and wave, never had one ask me any thing other than what mod. is that except for one on a traffic stop. now it seams like you thank you have a rite to stop me and question why i am carrying, and detain me till i give what YOU thank is a reasonable response. that dose not say you have no problem with open carry, it says you have a problem with open carry. at least thats what i got from you. if you want i can draw a picture at some point. but you have contributed little to this thread other than dont be cause police is scared of you.

by **TN-Shooter** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:39 pm

Dasho101 wrote:
iStandAlone wrote:
Dasho101 wrote:i stand. you strike me as the guy who will harass ppl for OC o there property. I'm guessing cause your with law enforcement that means you have some amazing extra powers. Also just to generalize about lLEO, you probably speed in your cruiser when not lights or sirens are on (aka speeding to the rest of the world) and would use your badge to get out of a ticket just cause you could. You also most likley are kind of a dick and dont have many non "cop" friends

now that you have read that and proly gotten all pissy why dont you realize its best not to generalize about the public. Now heres the reality. I dont know you, I proly wouldent want to know you just cause i doubt we would get along. Your proly a decent guy who has his opinions on things that would better be expressed in a different thread that you could start along the lines of "why not to open carry". I have zero issues with police officers and sherifs/deputies. I have many who are my close personal friends and that i have know literally seance before our balls dropped. Not one has ever had an issue with me open carrying, no were that i have ever gone has ever had an issue with me open carrying and many of the locations like when me and any of my friends come in both open and concield carrying because we often conduct our selfs more respectfully than others. but if you dont have any thing of use to contribute to this thread why not stop trolling and move on. you have established your opinion and it is im hazarding to guess "dont open carry in public even if it is legal in your area because i dont feel safe even if you have a permit, training (in the case of many of my friends years of experience ether as mil, former leo, or competition shooting) so i will detain you if i see you" end rant

As much as your "rant" doesn't even deserve a response, I will say one thing: I would love to draw you a picture on what my opinion is because I sense that would be the only way you would be able to understand. But I can't, so I will try to re-write. If you re-read my post it says I have no problem with hip-carry. Got it? I have a problem with people who OC and then complain when they get questioned by police. You know when you do it, there's a chance someone will call the police in fear.

yes you have no problems in parks, on private property,, ect. i oc damn near every day, walking down the street, in walmart, grocery store, getting gas. that to you seams like a no no. evry time i see a cop i smile and wave, never had one ask me any thing other than what mod. is that except for one on a traffic stop. now it seams like you thank you have a rite to stop me and question why i am carrying, and detain me till i give what YOU thank is a reasonable response. that dose not say you have no problem with open carry, it says you have a problem with open carry. at least thats what i got from you. if you want i can draw a picture at some point. but you have contributed little to this thread other than dont be cause police is scared of you.

I really don't think you can even draw a picture correctly with your education.

by **Doctorr Fabulous** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:06 pm

Yo. Both of you. Go read the goddamn rules, especially the bit about personal attacks. Either quit shitting up this thread because you can't get along (there's an ignore button) or pack your toys and go home. Don't ruin this for the rest of us.

by **Dasho101** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:02 pm

sorry, droping it

by **MacAttack** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:01 pm

Sorry about this.

I do believe in the right to open carry anything you own.
I also believe in the right to conceal carry anything you own.

But I do not believe that is a good considered idea to open carry just to make a political statement.
And using the tired lame excuse that your trying to educate people is pretty poor also.
You can do both with fliers better and cover far more of an area.

It also NOT a good idea to add in to the conversation to a cap that you know the law and then try to explain it to him. Everyone who breaks any kind of minor infraction starts screaming that junk. He doesn't need to hear it from you also. He'll take you in just to shut you up and give himself a break for the rest of the day. Now he gets to do paperwork about you instead of actually being out in the heat of the day.

Expect harassment from everyone you don't know.

by **ptAltered** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:20 pm

MacAttack wrote:Sorry about this.

I do believe in the right to open carry anything you own.
I also believe in the right to conceal carry anything you own.

But I do not believe that is a good considered idea to open carry just to make a political statement.
And using the tired lame excuse that your trying to educate people is pretty poor also.
You can do both with fliers better and cover far more of an area.

It also NOT a good idea to add in to the conversation to a cap that you know the law and then try to explain it to him. Everyone who breaks any kind of minor infraction starts screaming that junk. He doesn't need to hear it from you also. He'll take you in just to shut you up and give himself a break for the rest of the day. Now he gets to do paperwork about you instead of actually being out in the heat of the day.

Expect harassment from everyone you don't know.

You're totally daft and I wish you the best in the world you live in, cheers!

by **Caenus** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:29 pm

I don't open carry, but it is quite common in AZ. We have a no license cc law anyway. If you are open carrying, the cop likely has already seen it and he'll give you instructions. Just comply. I don't see a problem.

I was pulled over for a "California stop" the other day (atleast I slowed, most people just turn at that intersection like there is no stop...but I didn't argue) the cop saw my CCW (which I acquired before the no CCW law) and didn't even ask. A good cop will assume everyone is carrying anyway whether they see it or not. If the situation warrants then they will act accordingly to mitigate risks to themselves and the likelihood their family will be without them. If you live in a place where cops are dicks and OC is a big deal to you, then move somewhere else or be prepared to face the consequences.

by **Rebel Pariah** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:44 am

I open carry often, conceal carry sometimes :roll:

, its just a pain to conceal something that I would want to actually trust my life to.... Ill pass on that .380 thanks

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this important tidbit, if you are ever stopped for OC or CC, and the officer wants to take your weapon for his safety (that's fine I guess) until the stop is over,

always let THEM remove it from your holster, even if they say its ok... the officers partner on the other side of the car might not have heard him direct you, all he is going to see is you drawing a pistol

best case scenario? you get a gun in your face..... worst case...

if the officer wants you to hand you your weapon, you should say something along the lines of:
"Officer, I would feel more comfortable (for my safety?) if you removed it from the holster for me"

just to be clear, in my book any officer that wants me to draw my weapon in front of him\his partner, probably isn't the brightest crayon in the box and should be watched carefully

(not cop bashing...I can't imagine many officers ever doing this )

by **Doctorr Fabulous** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:18 pm

I have been told to unholster. I usually ask if I can just take the holster off and hand it to them, or place it on the ground. If I'm manpurse carrying, I just set the bag on the ground or away from me.

FWIW, most of the time this was during a traffic stop, so it was "Hey, just set that on the seat over there where Officer McNewguy can watch it and make sure it doesn't move while we chat."

by **charadeur** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:54 pm

Here in MI our law says we must inform the officer if we are packing. The only time I had to talk with the cops in the 8 years I have had my permit their attitude was "Ya okay so what." It was really no big deal. No hands in the air or anything like that. My rights are not contingent on police approval. That is essentially the difference between a police state and a free nation.

by **TDW586** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:28 pm

Last time I was stopped (at a license check/roadblock) by law enforcement in NC, I got pretty much the same reaction. I was concealed, but NC law requires you to inform officers if carrying. So, I stopped, handed the deputy my license and registration, and said "also, I have a concealed carry permit and am currently carrying", she said "okay, do you have your permit on you?" I said "yes, here it is", retrieved it from my wallet, and handed it to her. I then explained that I had filed a change of address for my permit at the courthouse, but the card itself had not been changed. She asked which was the correct address, I told her the one on my license, she said "okay, have a nice day sir".

Not worried about the weapon at all, didn't ask where or what it was. This makes sense to me, because if I'm telling her I have the firearm, I'm probably not planning to shoot her with it. Simple, easy, no fuss, no problems. Of course, this is rural NC, which may make a difference, but I've never had a problem of any kind from law enforcement regarding legal carry.