Thinking about 300 blackout

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CitizenZ
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Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by CitizenZ » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:38 pm

Thoughts, opinions, hate, etc?

(The other 300 blk thread was about cheap reloading options, then quickly goes off topic)

I've been reading up on the 30 caliber options for the AR, and I'm seriously considering converting a pistol upper to 300 blk for use as a carbine. For SD, hunting, general purpose, etc.
I've spent quite a bit of time reading at the 300aacblackout forum. This seems like the perfect 30 caliber option for those of us who already own an AR15. Unless there is something I'm not considering.

Hunting here requires minimum .24 cal. My only other hunting guns are 12 ga or 30.06 Garand. Since most shot here are less than 200 yards, this seems perfect. 12 ga doesn't have enough range, Garand is too big/heavy.
Improved short barrel performance.
Simple conversion, just a barrel swap.
Same lower.
Uses the same parts and mags.
30 cal performance from a 5-6lb package.
Don't need a whole new gun (which was the plan till I heard of this).
I'm starting to reload (5.56, 30.06), so even though I'd never heard of 300 blk till recently, I already have almost everything I need in my shed now. 5.56 brass, 30 cal bullets, rifle primers, and same powder. I just need new dies.
This also means I'll never run out of brass, and 30 cal bullets aren't likely to ever disappear.
Begs for a silencer in the (distant) future. Can be silenced with a smaller/lighter/cheaper pistol silencer, instead of a giant/expensive/heavy hypersonic type silencer.

Can't say any of that for the other 30 cal options.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by BHP » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:52 am

The conversion will require a little more than a barrel change but not by much. Chances are you will need a new gas tube (shorter) and possibly a new buffer. You may well need to buy some new powders for reloading too but that depends on what you want to load and what you have now.

I'm a fan of the round but I also build suppressors and machineguns for fun. Even still, it does offer a wide range of ballistic potential out pf a small package. Heavy bullets at subsonic velocities (or faster, I believe wou can launch a 220 grain bullet to 1600 or so) and lighter bullets can match 30-30 or 7.62x39. You have to be real precise when loading subsonic but otherwise its not much different than loading anything else.

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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by sarky » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:59 pm

Well there is also the 6.5 Grendel. But if you prefer .308 caliber I'd look at the 7.62x40WT (from wilson combat arms) . Just a thought.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by CitizenZ » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:00 pm

300blk is still seems the best of those for short barrel use (pistol length). SAMMI spec and open design mean more parts and ammo choices.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by BHP » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:49 am

CitizenZ hit on the biggest advantage as far as I'm concerned, industry support. With a big name behind load and product development it has a lot of support behind it. Most ammunition manufacturers have either introduced loads or announced an intent to do so. The growing interest in NFA and specifically suppressors has come along at the right time to support the .300 Blackout. I'd say it has a very good chance at success. Even if it doesn't stay for the long haul it is somethong you can continue to load for easy enough.

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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by ajk07734 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:13 pm

BHP wrote:The conversion will require a little more than a barrel change but not by much. Chances are you will need a new gas tube (shorter) and possibly a new buffer. You may well need to buy some new powders for reloading too but that depends on what you want to load and what you have now.

I'm a fan of the round but I also build suppressors and machineguns for fun. Even still, it does offer a wide range of ballistic potential out pf a small package. Heavy bullets at subsonic velocities (or faster, I believe wou can launch a 220 grain bullet to 1600 or so) and lighter bullets can match 30-30 or 7.62x39. You have to be real precise when loading subsonic but otherwise its not much different than loading anything else.

Negative, the barrel is the ONLY difference, Bolt, Gas system, Buffer Mags are all compatible. In fact DONT go with a heavier buffer as that will cause Failure to Feed issues. the .300Blk was developed SPECIFICALLY to use the same equipment as 5.56. One thing, if you go with the SI Defense Barrel (Midway USA $177.00) note that they have atendency to drill their gas ports on the tight side. I have to disassemble the .300 Blk i just built to remedy this problem.

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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by Bender711 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:09 pm

Go for it, if you don't like it swap out the barrel for a 5.56 one.

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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by BHP » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:11 am

ajk07734 wrote:
BHP wrote:The conversion will require a little more than a barrel change but not by much. Chances are you will need a new gas tube (shorter) and possibly a new buffer. You may well need to buy some new powders for reloading too but that depends on what you want to load and what you have now.

Negative, the barrel is the ONLY difference, Bolt, Gas system, Buffer Mags are all compatible. In fact DONT go with a heavier buffer as that will cause Failure to Feed issues. the .300Blk was developed SPECIFICALLY to use the same equipment as 5.56. One thing, if you go with the SI Defense Barrel (Midway USA $177.00) note that they have atendency to drill their gas ports on the tight side. I have to disassemble the .300 Blk i just built to remedy this problem.
I'm just basing this on the 6 guns I've built in .300 Whisper so what do I know. Is it possible that enlarging the gas port in your barrel wasn't needed? Could a lighter buffer accomplished the same thing? Is it possible that the gun really needed a shorter gas system? Could it be things are a little more complex than you think or that maybe you don't know as much as you like to think you do?

My experience differs from yours.

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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by TDW586 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:59 am

The barrel and gas system are one assembly, I can't think of any reason to buy a barrel in a new caliber without also buying a gas tube and block for it. BHP is correct, other items will need to be changed or tuned along with the barrel for reliable operation.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by CitizenZ » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:05 pm

This is for a factory built CMMG pistol, so it already has a pistol length gas system, and the barrel will probably have the gas tube already installed. So I can avoid that little headache. I'm already running an H2 buffer, so it should be just a straight barrel swap. I have a standard buffer in my kit, so if needed, that won't be a problem.

I'm thinking an 8" barrel to replace my current 7.5" (5.56mm). Currently the pistol works best as a flame thrower. If the ballistic performance of 5.56 wont' kill 'em, then the ball of fire and concussion probably would. 300blk performance would make this a much more useful weapon for SD and hunting. The pistol has been surprisingly reliable and fun to shoot.

The other 30 cal options are interesting, but seem to require more parts (magazines!) and less ammo options.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by CitizenZ » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:08 pm

TDW586 wrote:The barrel and gas system are one assembly, I can't think of any reason to buy a barrel in a new caliber without also buying a gas tube and block for it. BHP is correct, other items will need to be changed or tuned along with the barrel for reliable operation.

My book, The complete AR15 builders guide, says a barrel isn't a barrel until it has the barrel extension and gas system attached. Technically that would make it a barrel assembly, but I agree; I see no reason to buy a barrel without the gas system.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by Caenus » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:22 pm

I just started thinking about this too. I was considering a PCC for suppression, but my buddy in TX has been using a 300 bo on hogs all summer and says its great. Now if KelTec will just make a PLR-300...
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by sarky » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:15 am

My question is why do you want such a short barrel? I would think that something in a 12 or 14 inch barrel would lessen your flame thrower effect and improve ballistics.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by TDW586 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:57 am

.300 is designed for very short barrels, it's not a "flame thrower" like 5.56 and other rounds not designed for short barrels. The ballistics will be a little better, but again, not all that much, since it's designed to work out of short barrels.

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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:23 am

CitizenZ wrote: I'm thinking an 8" barrel to replace my current 7.5" (5.56mm). Currently the pistol works best as a flame thrower. If the ballistic performance of 5.56 wont' kill 'em, then the ball of fire and concussion probably would. 300blk performance would make this a much more useful weapon for SD and hunting. The pistol has been surprisingly reliable and fun to shoot.
Yes, my 7.5" 5.56 ran like a raped ape, however there was one issue. There is no suppressor manufacturer that will warranty their suppressor on a 7.5" AR. I don't see the point of a HD gun that can't use a suppressor so I swapped it out for a 8" 300 BO. I shot it this weekend and it was the titties. I haven't shot subsonics but I will this weekend.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by brothaman » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:04 am

CitizenZ wrote:Hunting here requires minimum .24 cal.
5.56/223 has a .224 bullet diameter....

I've never had an issue with deer hunting with 223. Others will cry bullet weight is a problem. It isn't. Don't go below 55gr. 63gr soft points are perfect for the job. Just don't shoot them in the ass.

Unless you just have the gun lust for 300 blk (which I understand and fully support) I don't see a reason to go 300 blk unless you're buying a suppressor to go with at some point.
(btw, i'm not hatin' on 300blk, i think its a pretty neat cart.)
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by Caenus » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:32 am

Yup, pretty much a suppressor build, or simple SBR. Out of a 9" barrel, 300 bo has similar ballistics to a 16" 7.62 AK.

So an 8.5-9" barrel running an 8"-8.5" suppressor puts your overall length right around 16-18". Not a bad little package for Short range hunting.

Also, comparing a 9" 300 to a 16" 300, there is only about 200fps gain in velocity with the longer barrel.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by JustAnotherSnakeCult » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:13 am

Regular Guy wrote:There is no suppressor manufacturer that will warranty their suppressor on a 7.5" AR.
AAC warranties their 762-SDN-6 and SR7 down to 7.5” barrels when using 5.56 or 300 BLK. (on page 94 of their current product catalog)

What other suppressors have warranties for an 8” 300 BLK. Most other’s I’ve found are 10.

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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:18 am

JustAnotherSnakeCult wrote:
Regular Guy wrote:There is no suppressor manufacturer that will warranty their suppressor on a 7.5" AR.
AAC warranties their 762-SDN-6 and SR7 down to 7.5” barrels when using 5.56 or 300 BLK. (on page 94 of their current product catalog)

What other suppressors have warranties for an 8” 300 BLK. Most other’s I’ve found are 10.
Sure, I don't feel like paying $1000 for a suppressor for a 7.5 5.56, espcially since I already have 2 5.56 cans and it's still not hearing safe with that can. Nope, pass. The 7.62 suppressor that I have is warrantied for my 8" BO, so I'm good to go. :D
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by JustAnotherSnakeCult » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:24 am

Regular Guy wrote:
JustAnotherSnakeCult wrote:
Regular Guy wrote:There is no suppressor manufacturer that will warranty their suppressor on a 7.5" AR.
AAC warranties their 762-SDN-6 and SR7 down to 7.5” barrels when using 5.56 or 300 BLK. (on page 94 of their current product catalog)

What other suppressors have warranties for an 8” 300 BLK. Most other’s I’ve found are 10.
Sure, I don't feel like paying $1000 for a suppressor for a 7.5 5.56, espcially since I already have 2 5.56 cans and it's still not hearing safe with that can. Nope, pass. The 7.62 suppressor that I have is warrantied for my 8" BO, so I'm good to go. :D
What suppressor? like i said most of what I'm finding is for 10"

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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:28 am

Innovative Arms warranties their 7.62 cans for 8" 300 BO.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by northernxposure » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:15 pm

brothaman wrote:
CitizenZ wrote:Hunting here requires minimum .24 cal.
5.56/223 has a .224 bullet diameter....

I've never had an issue with deer hunting with 223. Others will cry bullet weight is a problem. It isn't. Don't go below 55gr. 63gr soft points are perfect for the job. Just don't shoot them in the ass.

Unless you just have the gun lust for 300 blk (which I understand and fully support) I don't see a reason to go 300 blk unless you're buying a suppressor to go with at some point.
(btw, i'm not hatin' on 300blk, i think its a pretty neat cart.)

0.240 > 0.224 :v:

So the 6mm AR won't be legal either - but a 6.5 Grendal would be.

I'm on the fence with the 300Bo. It seems like it's the "new" 6.8SPC2 - and makes me wonder what will happen in the next few years. Market support is always nice, but the 6.8 had Hornady's support and look where that got it.

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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:28 pm

NXP, I think 300 BO has legs. Here's my take, it fills many many niches and has lots of industry support. Remy, Horn, Corbon and Gunn are making ammo. It make the AR-15 run like a 30/30 and doesn't require anything except a barrel change. 6.8 needed mags, barrel, bolt. The 6.8 was iffy subsonic. The 300 runs subsonic just fine. If your tired of the 300, swap a barrel and your back to 5.56.
The 300 also use a 30 cal bullet which for some reason turns folks on. The 300 does more than the 6.8 or 6.5 with less divergence from the AR design. I don't think the 300 is everything but it is a lot. It is 7.62x39mm out of an AR and it's reliable which a x39 AR is not and doesn't need mags/bolt.
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Re: Thinking about 300 blackout

Post by Caenus » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:09 pm

^^^exactly.

Also it makes AR pistols legit for car/truck guns, camping, hunting (other than just varmints) as it performs well out of a short barrel.
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