Thureon Defense 9MM Carbine

[jor-el]

Just when I thought the Just Right Carbine had some potential, along comes Thureon Defense with a remarkably similar design.

http://shop.justrightcarbines.com/

Now look here.

http://www.thureondefense.com/

Yeah, Heather LaCroix might have had something to do with it.

About two years back it only had the option of modded UZI/9MM AR mags but now appears to be available for Glock mags as well.

Anyone else have one?

[EmbraceTheHate]

What would you use it for? I just got rid of a 9mm carbine, I had no use for it.


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[COtactical]

Hmmm....I have a Beretta CX-4 Storm carbine in 9mm, it is nice just because everything just fits me right and it's dang accurate (and it looks cool).

9mm and .223 seem to be the most popular calibers, which is important when considering ammo cost and selection. I'm going to limit my ammo to 9mm, .223, and 12 gauge.

So, I dunno, I could see my CX-4 being pretty practical now that I have a couple of 25 round mags. It is just 30' long, easy to handle and aim. Enough for good penetration up to 100ft and extremely accurate, with lots of selection for ammo, which I can switch out with my pistols. Barrel doesn't overheat, even if I unload the whole mag at once.

However, for sheer ft/lbs of energy to the target, a 12 gauge or .223 rifle cartridge is def much more oomph for the same cost of one of those carbines you mention.

Are you using 9mm to practice at the range or something? That's also a nice benefit. Plus you can get cheap, reliable 9mm hollow points, with less potential for over penetration into the next three houses in a suburban environment. Seriously, check out http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm . Even a 9mm hollowpoint can plug up and go through the equivalent of four walls with deadly force. A .223 practice round will go through a couple of houses easy. Every bullet is a potential lawsuit.

Shotguns are nice because you can load them up to not overpenetrate, but they hit a lot harder than the 9mm. A single 00 buck shell is like delivering 9 to 12 .380 bullets all at once all in the same general area. -boom- $0.75 per shell or so, but it doesn't seem like I need to shoot so many shotgun rounds for good practice...not sure why.

.223 is sorta a must have, I spose, especially if you're going to hit anything beyond 50 yards with any stopping power. At least $0.75 for a good hollow point and $0.50 per target round, they're expensive to practice with. About four times the power of a 9mm though and much more accuracy at longer range.

The major benefit to 9mm carbines to me is the low cost. For that I'd just go for a Hi Point. Here's a good selection page. http://www.best9mm.com/carbines/index.html.

Oh, besides, the Just Right carbine doesn't handle +P 9mm rounds, which is actually hardly anything in terms of chamber pressure, so I would avoid them like the plague (no pun intended). Just means the strength of the chamber isn't very high, which is a bad thing.

If you really want a 9mm and want some good accuracy and good powder burn in a longer barrel, I'd go for a Glock 34 handgun. They are cheaper and awesome. It is actually my favorite gun. Good 6" long sight radius. Low perceived recoil. Easy to maintain and clean. Otherwise, I might go for the Kel Tec carbine. I just have a personal, irrational weakness for the Beretta CX4, I guess. It just feels good.

My two cents,

COT

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

Yeah, Heather LaCroix might have had something to do with it.

I like a big boom.

-

[jor-el]

What would you use it for? I just got rid of a 9mm carbine, I had no use for it.

Mostly for practice with AR controls. Remember, NYC has 0 outdoor ranges open to the public. The one LEO range I could shoot at, is a bridge toll away and of limited hours. 9MM is not a supply problem for me. 5.56 NATO is.

[ShaneP]

This company is like 20 mins from my house...I'm gonna have to go check them out

[EmbraceTheHate]

What would you use it for? I just got rid of a 9mm carbine, I had no use for it.

Mostly for practice with AR controls. Remember, NYC has 0 outdoor ranges open to the public. The one LEO range I could shoot at, is a bridge toll away and of limited hours. 9MM is not a supply problem for me. 5.56 NATO is.

Sounds like you need to move....just saying'


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[Murgatroy]

Having handled the JRC and the Thureon Defense, the JRC felt and looked a lot better.

I was fondling in a LGS, so I haven't shot either of them.

[AKFTW]

What would you use it for? I just got rid of a 9mm carbine, I had no use for it.

Mostly for practice with AR controls. Remember, NYC has 0 outdoor ranges open to the public. The one LEO range I could shoot at, is a bridge toll away and of limited hours. 9MM is not a supply problem for me. 5.56 NATO is.

Sounds like you need to move....just saying'


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He's kind of with the NYPD

[Jeriah]

What would you use it for? I just got rid of a 9mm carbine, I had no use for it.

Mostly for practice with AR controls. Remember, NYC has 0 outdoor ranges open to the public. The one LEO range I could shoot at, is a bridge toll away and of limited hours. 9MM is not a supply problem for me. 5.56 NATO is.

Why not just drop a .22 adapter into your AR?

[tonytwotimes]

Having handled the JRC and the Thureon Defense, the JRC felt and looked a lot better.

Would you say it was "just right"?

[jor-el]

What would you use it for? I just got rid of a 9mm carbine, I had no use for it.

Mostly for practice with AR controls. Remember, NYC has 0 outdoor ranges open to the public. The one LEO range I could shoot at, is a bridge toll away and of limited hours. 9MM is not a supply problem for me. 5.56 NATO is.

Sounds like you need to move....just saying'


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He's kind of with the NYPD

After 2015 I kind of won't.

[jor-el]

Anyway, I presently have two 9MM ARs; one a frankengun with a Colt upper, and a full RRA. Both use adapters and could be re-configured to 5.56 NATO rifles with an hour's time. There's a bunch of tweaks involved to get these to work reliably.

Why 9 and not something cheaper like a .22? I like the sub-caliber training gear to actually be useful on its own.
The NYPD 9MM round is a +P 124gr GDHP which makes 1220 fps from the 4 inch Glock 19. In a carbine it should make another 100 fps or so. Ballistic performance at 100 yards or so should be the same as pistols at contact ranges.

Note that the NYPD uses the +P GDHP in both the service pistols as well as the H+K MP5s we have in various configurations.

Now, there may be people curious as to why I would want either carbine if I already have something that does the same job. Well, the obvious reasons.
1) The franken AR started as a Bushmaster carbine back in the late nineties and had a Colt 6450 upper added on. With all of the parts changes to get that to run I probably spent over 800 counting the cost of the upper assembly to get it to run Colt mags 100%. The resulting weapon system is probably 1400 to 1500 not counting cost of mags.
2) The RRA started as a 9MM and cost about 800 with a few mags and case.

Was it worth it? Guess it depends on your POV. It certainly cost money. OTOH the practice of working with an AR system directly translated to working with my departments Colt M4, which I could only work with for callouts and annual quals.

The JR and the Thureon are rather different from a proper AR configuration. OTOH I believe both have Glock mags as an option. JRs have interchangable mag wells. Thureon lowers are dedicated to the mag you pick.
The JRs have some idiosyncracies that may annoy, such as allen head screws instead of push pins, and the stock has to be removed to field strip. More after I get some sleep.

[jor-el]

Just Right carbine.

Mag release on left side receiver, forward of magazine well. About the right place if the mag well were the pistol grip on a conventional pistol. Not a deal breaker, but requires the left hand to actuate to change mags. Primary mags are 9MM Glocks.
Bolt handle switches from right to left as user prefers.

Factory ammo recommendation against +P ammunition. That could be a deal breaker, as the bulk of my supplies are nothing but +P ammo.

Thureon carbine.

Mag release right side in the normal AR configuration. Mag well lower machined to specific mags. Uzi/AR, or Glock mags. Left hand only bolt handle.

FActory ammo recommendation accepts +P. From pics, it looks like it uses the double push pin breakdown of an AR. Need to look at a manual to be sure.

[Mr. E. Monkey]

I kinda like the concept, just don't have much interest in either, personally. I can definitely see the benefit in keeping a familiar platform, and being able to use Glock mags is a big plus, IMO.

/still likes the idea of the Kel Tec.
/thinks MP5s and clones are sexy, even though the charging handle doesn't look very lefty-friendly
/irrationally lusts after a nice Uzi.

(In other words, I don't think my opinion is terribly relevant )

[MEANTREE]

I am pretty happy with my Lonewolf Glock Magazine 9mm lower and Spike's Tactical 9mm upper. Fit form and function just like my other AR's. Using all the same furniture and sighting systems. There are some finer finish issues with the first run Glock 9mm lowers from Lonewolf. I am sure they will be worked out in subsequent offerings. Shoots very nicely and loves the heavier rounds. Grouping eight inches at 100 yards and feeds the 33 rd Glock factory magazines like butter.

[jor-el]

I kinda like the concept, just don't have much interest in either, personally. I can definitely see the benefit in keeping a familiar platform, and being able to use Glock mags is a big plus, IMO.

/still likes the idea of the Kel Tec.
/thinks MP5s and clones are sexy, even though the charging handle doesn't look very lefty-friendly
/irrationally lusts after a nice Uzi.

(In other words, I don't think my opinion is terribly relevant )

Thought about a Kel Tec until I handled one. Maybe useful to someone else, not me.

No, it's not. At all. Neither is the ejection pattern.

Have you tried an Uzi? Heavy spring pressure with a tiny cocking knob. Despise the folding stock. For shooting, wood stock preferred.

[northernxposure]

I personally think both TD and the JRC carbines are fugly adaptations - hanging a few pieces of AR furniture off a gun that has limited features in common with a desired training platform are pointless to me. I understand the desire for it to take Glock mags, but Uzi mags are just as plentiful, relatively inexpensive, and only need minor modding to work.

With more indoor ranges opening here, I'm looking at a dedicated CMMG 9mm AR. Ammo costs and the ability to shoot my own metal plates without crying about swiss cheese is very appealing to me.

NXP

[jor-el]

Matter of fact the TD lower that uses Colt SMG mags will take modded UZI mags, as that was what the Colts started as. That would push them way in my favor.

Whether there is a BHO for the Colt mags to actuate is a question I put to them a few minutes ago.

[Raindog]

My uncle had a JR briefly and I ran a couple mags through it. No problems to report but it just didn't really press any buttons for me. I'd say go for it if that is what you are looking for though.

[jor-el]

Matter of fact the TD lower that uses Colt SMG mags will take modded UZI mags, as that was what the Colts started as. That would push them way in my favor.

Whether there is a BHO for the Colt mags to actuate is a question I put to them a few minutes ago.

THe manufacturer said no in order to keep the overall receiver length short.

Still, it would be worth it to me just as another weapon that uses a substantial supply of Colt mags I have.

[Mr. E. Monkey]

I kinda like the concept, just don't have much interest in either, personally. I can definitely see the benefit in keeping a familiar platform, and being able to use Glock mags is a big plus, IMO.

/still likes the idea of the Kel Tec.
/thinks MP5s and clones are sexy, even though the charging handle doesn't look very lefty-friendly
/irrationally lusts after a nice Uzi.

(In other words, I don't think my opinion is terribly relevant )

Thought about a Kel Tec until I handled one. Maybe useful to someone else, not me.

No, it's not. At all. Neither is the ejection pattern.

Have you tried an Uzi? Heavy spring pressure with a tiny cocking knob. Despise the folding stock. For shooting, wood stock preferred.

I appreciate your feedback, as I've never gotten to try any of these. It seems like each point you've listed makes a good argument for either the Thureon or Just Right carbines as you get some of the benefits of the AR analog...I'd be curious to see how their ejection pattern compares to a standard AR, as a lefty.

Fake edit: The magazine compatibility seems like a significant benefit, as long is it doesn't have any particular down side.

[huntingohio]

There are actually many advantages for a 9mm carbine
The ammo is a lot lighter and takes up less room
Magazinge comonality with sidearm
ammo is widely available
it is a multi use platform

Ive used them to blast grounhogs and opossum at 100- 120 yds, plink rabbits on the run, dispatch trapped animals, waste a few coyotes, shoot squirrels on the ground, and with shot placment in the central nervous system they would be more the capable of dropping a deer or larger game.I havent even touched on training with cheap ammo or home defense yet.

They are generally more accurate than a handgun [stock and longer sight radius help a lot]. They would be easier to use for a person with minimal training than a handgun, lets face it it takes a fair amount of practice to hit well with a handgun at various distances

Every platform has its advantages and disadvantages use your situation and choose accordingly