Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by misanthropist » Sun May 01, 2011 6:47 pm

We used to call these "south african slugs" but I am not sure why. I was told that they were used against the occupants of cars in S. Africa but have no idea if there is any truth to that. It seems like gunstore BS to me but I guess it could be true.

Anyway they are great on pumpkins.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Dasho101 » Sun May 01, 2011 9:45 pm

im bout to do some remodeling in my room so ill see what these do to dry wall (and what son the other side with some of the pieces i have left over)
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Absintheur » Mon May 02, 2011 4:01 am

Just remember you are asking your shotgun's barrel to swallow something it wasn't designed for. The cut shell is significantly bigger in diameter that a shotgun wad, in a choked barrel I can easily see problems. The cut shell will not compress down like the wad who shot column is already starting to string out as it leaves the barrel, could possibly jug a barrel. I see this as nothing more than a silly stunt with a possibility of damaging the barrel of your shotgun.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by mr.trooper » Mon May 02, 2011 9:29 am

You all realize that shotgun shells were once made of PAPER right? Many shells (even 'name brand' big 3) STILL use paper base wads inside the hulls.

Chamber pressure on a 12 gauge is 11,500psi MAX for all chambers under 3.5".
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Power Fail » Mon May 02, 2011 10:20 pm

Not that anyone has (seriously) suggested it, but I'll throw this out there - God help the person that has to go to court after using something like this for self defense.

Otherwise, seems like an interesting idea.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by zephir » Sun May 08, 2011 5:52 pm

so does anyone know is this really safe or not?
Because if it does work I'll never need to buy anything besides cheap walmart "target" shotguns again becasue I can just "cut" them to make slugs.
and also becasue I have a 20 gauge, and that's not mentioned in the linked article or in the last 3 pages here. Its a Mossberg 500 clone (Western Auto Revelation).

I figure its like firing a barrel obstruction out of your gun every time you do this, its like asking for a KB to happen. I just doesn't sound safe to do this, but at the same time i really want to try it to see if it works. unfortunately there's no open ranges around me to try this at so I can't exactly just go out and try it now. (its a 125 miles drive to the nearest 'open' range)

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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Skull_Hide » Sun May 08, 2011 6:48 pm

If I take out the chronograph and test the fps will it help determine if it is safe or not? I don't believe you can link fps to internal pressure in the barrel can you? Personally I'm not worried, as long as your choke isn't too small, or your gun isnt in bad condition.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by xLionx » Mon May 09, 2011 1:09 am

zephir wrote:so does anyone know is this really safe or not?

It's probably not safe being that people have been doing it for longer then you have been alive

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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Skull_Hide » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:14 am

Still haven't taken a reading on the fps of these rounds, totally forgot, but I can if someone is actually interested. Also check out another one of his videos on waxed shells for food for thought as well. If someone wants to send me some ballistic gel I'll do some testing :D
Last edited by Skull_Hide on Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by MaconCJ7 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:16 am

I'm interested in some numbers.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by MaconCJ7 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:21 am

As for gelatin: http://www.myscienceproject.org/gelatin.html


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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Skull_Hide » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:28 am

Should be next to the Quote button, if not Idk why. As for the Gelatin I would need about about four boxes for a good size block I think, so around $10 a block? And what distances would you guys like? 6', 12', farther? I can do Fps tomorrow.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by MaconCJ7 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:38 am

Nope, no buttons. I used to have them, but I no longer do.

In the interests of testing it as a slug, I think 25m would be a good distance. But, accuracy out of a smooth bore using an oddly shaped projectile may be an issue. So perhaps 12m would be best.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by MaconCJ7 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:43 am

And I'm suggesting meters because it's still a slug. I doubt the gelatin would stop the slug at 12ft.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Einher » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:45 am

If you can keep the shell tests to the 2&3/4 inch variety, I'd be interested in seeing some numbers (FPS and relative pressure).

3" and 3&1/2" are fairly outside anything I'd be interested in (2&3/4" being the most common 12ga dimensions), unless you're playing with blackpowder loads (and even then the ceiling of what I'd be interested in would be 3").
The reason being that the only shotguns I play with these days are a Saiga-12.

2&3/4" shells are the most common 12 gauge loads, and I know *I'd* be interested in seeing anything that doesn't bust the gun apart or will eventually lead to breach/bore damage.

I still think 'cut-shells' as a slug are (at best) going to provide a 'rat-hole' wound profile at close range and are questionable beyond that, but I'm willing to entertain the thought for the principle of academics.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Skull_Hide » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:26 am

Okay guys, I'll get some gelatin and make up some blocks in a few days hopefully. I have some standard 1 oz Winchester slugs, standard from Wally World as well as some PDX 1 Winchester buck/ slug combo ammo, I know, I've heard it sucks as both but will give it a try. I'll also give waxed slugs a try as well. All tested for FPS.
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Skull_Hide » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:50 am

Should this testing be done with my H&R Topper with 26" with fixed modified choke or my 20" cylinder bore 590?
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Krustofski » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:01 am

Skull_Hide wrote:Should this testing be done with my H&R Topper with 26" with fixed modified choke or my 20" cylinder bore 590?
Why "or"?
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Paladin1 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:56 am

I personally would not do this just because I see the application of such a technique as extremely limited. If you have a single shot I imagine it wouldn't be that big a deal, but I would not do it on my semiauto S12.

Too me the gain is not worth the risk of damage or having to unclog the barrel, etc.

The idea is very similar to a breaching round. Which actually would be a pretty good indoor round if you use a shotgun for SD (I don't, it's pistol inside the the house for me, shotgun for outside of house).

What I have seen personally is shells that has candle wax poured over birdshot, then crimped. Acts like a slug until it hits something solid, then explodes.

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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by greenbeetle » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:56 am

Pretty cool. If someone could chrono a normal round then the same round cut one might be able to make some inferences about increased pressure on the barrel?

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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Krustofski » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:05 am

Paladin1 wrote:I personally would not do this just because I see the application of such a technique as extremely limited.
Well no. Yes. Kinda. If all you have is birdshot because you didn't bother to stock anything else, AND you have a single or double barrel smothbore, then I can see the value of cut shells. I sure as hell would not see it as superior to anything purpose-made.

I have a O/U 20, and a SxS 12, and guess what, all I have is birdshot, because my shotguns are for birds and rabbits only. I hunt larger game with a rifle. Thus, if I had to try and take a deer with a shotgun in an emergency situation, or even use it in self defense, this becomes a viable option. I would not try this with a full choke, though. If it won't shoot a slug, I sure as hell will not try a cutshell.

I'm planning on trying this out, but I will not get to a range for at least a month. :(
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by WY_Not » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:30 am

For informational purposes only! Use at your own peril! If you blow up the gun or yourself, don't come whining to me. :cry:

If you really want slug performance out of your birdshot, why not make slugs? Been a while since I read the article but premise was... In places where slugs can not be bought (African countries if I remember correctly), they bought they opened the birdshot shells, poured out the shot, melted the shot down, and poured their own slugs. Then they put the slug back into the shell.

Found the article! http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009 ... f-defense/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Liff » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:45 am

If you really wanted to remove the shot and reform it, http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseP ... 685***8657***" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; They make molds for that.

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Re: Cut shells (The poor man's slugs)

Post by Domino » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:57 am

Paladin1 wrote:I personally would not do this just because I see the application of such a technique as extremely limited. If you have a single shot I imagine it wouldn't be that big a deal, but I would not do it on my semiauto S12.
Uh, no kidding... The article clearly states not to do this in semi-auto shotguns and that caution must be used with pumps. This is one of many reasons why break action shotguns are some of the most versatile survival tools in existance. I think its important to remember that this is a concept that was popular during the great depression when ammunition was limited and expensive and people were hungry and needed to eat. This is the application of such a thing, when you only have birdshot and you need to take larger game. Would it be better to have a bunch of slugs stocked up? Of course, but if birdshot is all you have on hand this practice could mean the difference between eating well and going hungry.

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