Doc Torr wrote: AKFTW wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:Chainsaw Mossy 500 was designed for breaching teams, not for zombies. Unveiled at SHOT in 2010(ish?) with that expressed purpose.
As someone who has breached many doors, what do you think of it? Clown shoes gimmick, or potentially useful?
Most of my breaching is either mechanical (foot, shoulder, ram) or explosive (aka the awesome way) and I've never had the misfortune of having to breach with a scattergun (outside training). Having said that, let me make some observations:
1. I foresee short-stroking, should anyone try to work the action with the chainsaw handle, vice the regular pump arm on the bottom.
2. No stock+ big fuckoff obstruction of the sight picture means it's absolute shite to shoot in any other situation than "place muzzle device against lockset, load specialty breaching round, fire and hold on." Not that the single bead front, nonexiststant rear, and muzzle device don't make it shite to shoot anyway.
3. I'd bet half a paycheck that I can breach anything that can, faster, and have a weapon up and ready to rock faster than most folks can breach with that abomination, and either transition to a secondary. See above, if you think they should just adjust their grip and continue on.
[NB: I'm one of maybe six breachers that thinks the breaching team should be the first guys in the room. Some say they should be last, in which case the jackass with the "Chainsaw" will likely move out of the way just as fast as I do, more or less.]
Overall, you show me something that a short-barreled shotgun will breach that I can't breach faster, cleaner, safer, and more badass-er, and I'll ask how many man hours you used designing that scenario. A good ram will weigh twice what that clown-shoes POS does, but will breach faster and with no chance of ricochet or spatter from misuse. It's also faster to throw the ram into the and transition that it is to go from hip-firing that thing to whatever abortion of a grip you would use.
In short: shotguns for breaching are/were a half-assed in between measure for departments that didn't have trained breachers and saw too many movies. Thing is, a GOOD, SAFE, EFFECTIVE shotgun breach requires special rounds, special training, and takes just as long as a good, safe, effective mechanical or dynamic breach. Yeah, there are probably some guys good enough to stack, shoot, and move in under thirty seconds, but if you can wait 30 seconds, I can make the door go "BOOM!" and there's a lot less worry about things like missing the door, people being alert and ready beyond the door, or the door in general. Last door I blew myself went 'splodey, and a six-year-old on the other side suffered what was likely PTSD and mild tinnitus, which may or may not have been caused by having Taliban fighters use his house as a machinegun emplacement. My point is, he was alive, and the fighters inside were stunned by the door's sudden apparent disregard for the laws of thermodynamics, and they happily lay down and waited for us to come and explain it to them.
TL:DR the only reason to breach with a shotgun is to have an effective room-clearing weapon in the point man's hands whgen he does the breach. Between the influx of M4geries to larger departments, and the influx of trained MLDK's (Major League Door Kickers) to said departments, the shotgun is now a misused novelty.
As I said earlier, safely, effectively breaching with a shotgun is not like COD:MW where you shoot the door twice and it magically opens. It's a science (physics) and it's really easy to kill the wrong guy trying to copy the vidya games.