home defense shotgun question

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home defense shotgun question

Post by Rob » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:33 pm

I have a question about keeping a home defense shot gun.

12G Mossberg 930 SPX is the weapon in question if anyone wants to know, i have no kids and the wife is capable of using it as much as I am.

For home defense purposes:

Should the gun be in the home loaded?

Should the gun have a shell chambered?

Should the gun be unloaded and securely stored every time I leave the house? (sounds like a pain in the ass... why can't i just take it with me to work :( sigh )

The gun will be unloaded and secured when nephews are over.

any other considerations?

Thanks

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Mr. Warren Peace » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:43 pm

hd shotguns should be loaded, and ready to go. i don't want to be fumbling in the middle of the night for shells, if i hear something that isn't right in my house. if you treat your firearms like they are loaded anyway, the safety factor is a non issue in my book.

i don't keep one in the chamber because that is a split second thing to do, and it's not part of my "normal routine." i keep mine in one spot in my room, and it's only moved when i'm cleaning the room or going to the range. basically, find whatever routine, and "sweet spot" that works for you.

good luck!
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Rob » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:48 pm

so you do not secure the HD weapon when you leave the house?

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Finch » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:56 pm

Rob wrote:so you do not secure the HD weapon when you leave the house?
i do not

mossy 590 under the bed locked and loaded.

the G26 is on the nightstand if its not with me.

the rest of the guns are in the safe (ok well i may keep a revolver somewhere else in the house)

ETA: doesn't NYC have rules about this
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Rob » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:59 pm

no rules on being loaded, no. Just can't transport it loaded. If you legally own it, which i obviously do, you can keep it loaded or unloaded inside your house.

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by koolaidND » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:59 pm

I never secure my HD guns when I leave my place. The shotgun is under the bed, Glock 19C in the nightstand, and Marlin 1894c is behind the bedroom door. It would be a pain in the ass to unload and lock up each gun when I leave.
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Finch » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:00 pm

Rob wrote:no rules on being loaded, no. Just can't transport it loaded. If you legally own it, which i obviously do, you can keep it loaded or unloaded inside your house.
oh thats good i was thinking NYC had something like the pre-heller DC laws about guns being locked at all times or something rtarded like that

carry on :)
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Rob » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:15 pm

transport may require a trigger lock. But i am a LEO and i have no idea. If i came across someone with a rifle shotgun say in their car, and they can prove its legally theirs and registered ect, i would not check for trigger locks, maybe for being loaded.

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Power Fail » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:50 pm

I'd personally suggest loaded with a chambered shell at all times. If God forbid you do need it in the middle of the night, there's no sense (to me) in giving away your position with a loud ass RACK-RACK.

Unless there's a gun that's going to be on your person, I'd also consider leaving it out when the nephews come over. Depending on how old they are, sure, hide it, put it up where they can't reach it, do what you need to do. I understand you wanting to keep them safe from accidentally hurting themselves with the shotgun, but how are you going to keep them safe if someone kicks your door in while they're at your place? To me, their presence would be an even bigger reason to keep it out, loaded, and ready to go than just protecting myself from the middle of the night burglar.

It can also be a good way to start teaching them about gun safety and what have you, keeping in mind the wishes of their parents, of course.
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Finch » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:58 pm

also please load your shotty 00 Buck or slugs no birdshot :)
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Neville » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:59 pm

If you are going to stow your firearm every time you leave the house, then you may as well leave it in the safe. Point being, you are going to come home tired or busy and forget/procrastinate taking it out of the safe. Cuz we wouldn't want the ice cream fresh from the grocery store to melt, right? Or you had to go walk the dog cuz he was doing the pee-pee dance and you don't want to have to steam the carpet, right? YOU WILL FORGET TO TAKE IT OUT. And a burglar can get from most front doors to the bedroom before you can unlock your safe and load the firearm. If it is locked up, then it is not a defensive arm, it is a sporting arm. A sporting arm is available for planned sporting outings. A defensive arm is one kept available for instant action.

What many people do is to keep shells in the tube, but the chamber empty. Quickly racking the shotgun is all that is needed to be instantly ready to fire, and no amount of trigger pulling/snagging/bumping will discharge a round while that chamber is empty. and a shotgun is not likely to rack itself, nor are you liable to do it accidentally. You probably want some kind of light on that shottie as well, because you need to ID the target. Kinda hard to justify to the police pulling the trigger when you couldn't see who/what you were shooting at.

As far as "giving away my position" by racking the shotgun... if I'm racking the shotgun I'm about to give away my position BIG TIME anyway. Would you just shoot someone in your house without yelling "I've got a gun, we called the police, GET OUT NOW!" first anyway? I've heard of people being in the wrong house before unintentionally (drunk, high, confused, alzheimers) and really I don't WANT to shoot anyone, even if it is some pimply faced kid who broke into my house for the Xbox. I'd much rather run them out of the place than have to call in to work explaining why I'm still down at the PD answering questions about the guy I killed last night. Of course if someone hears that shotgun rack, ignores my verbal warning and keeps coming, they're going to get a face full of lead, and then tomorrow can sort itself out, at least we'll be alive to do so. Just my thoughts on the matter.

At our house, we have a simple way of determining if *that* firearm right there is loaded, without picking it up or even looking at it. If it is in the safe, it is unloaded - because if it is in the safe there is no reason for it to be loaded, there being nothing to shoot at INSIDE THE SAFE. If a gun is outside the safe, it is loaded - that is the first thing done when take out of the safe. Because a gun without ammo is like an ambulance without gasoline. If you're gonna use it, you can't use it without ammo, and if you ain't gonna be using it, you ought to put it in the safe. Pretty simple system, based on common sense.
Last edited by Neville on Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Rob » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:02 pm

additionally i have a 9mm on me when guests are over or in a draw or on a table when alone or with wife. I would only use the shotgun if i knew the wife was next to me as no one else can get access to my home, so it cant be her. My dogs are also an early warning system. But they warn me of the wind, the birds, the neighbors, the neighbors dog, the cat outside and everything else.

iu love the barrel light idea. awesome gonna go shopping,

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Spartan299 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:05 pm

I keep the 870 loaded and chamber clear. Nothin' like the sound of a pump action shotgun drivin' a shell home! I like ta think of it as a non lethal deterent. :lol:
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Finch » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:10 pm

Spartan299 wrote:I keep the 870 loaded and chamber clear. Nothin' like the sound of a pump action shotgun drivin' a shell home! I like ta think of it as a non lethal deterent. :lol:
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Rob » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:15 pm

i agree its probably best to not give yourself away with the click clank of loading a shell. In my case the dogs baying and barking like the loud asses they are will cover up any other noise.

Based on all the great answers for now i will keep it in the closet with 7 rounds under the barrel, safety on, chamber clear and closed.

Any additional advice is welcomed. Thanks!

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by BAD BOY » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:19 pm

I personally think it's a bad idea to leave a firearm out while you're away, loaded or not. The last think I want to do is either supply a potential criminal that might break in while go a firearm or worse yet have my own damn gun used on me when I walk in.

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Valarius » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:26 pm

Finch wrote:
Spartan299 wrote:I keep the 870 loaded and chamber clear. Nothin' like the sound of a pump action shotgun drivin' a shell home! I like ta think of it as a non lethal deterent. :lol:
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

No
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by RatDrall » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:27 pm

Keeping a loaded gun unsecured has ruined a lot of lives, and ended a few prematurely. I would hate to come home and find a burglar pointing my shotgun at me.

There are ways to secure firearms that allow them to be accessed quickly if needed. Do more research and find a way to keep your guns secure from others but accessable to you.
Rob wrote:transport may require a trigger lock. But i am a LEO and i have no idea. If i came across someone with a rifle shotgun say in their car, and they can prove its legally theirs and registered ect, i would not check for trigger locks, maybe for being loaded.
Stuff like this makes me glad that I live in a free state.

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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Spartan299 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:50 pm

Finch wrote:
Spartan299 wrote:I keep the 870 loaded and chamber clear. Nothin' like the sound of a pump action shotgun drivin' a shell home! I like ta think of it as a non lethal deterent. :lol:
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

No
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Power Fail » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:33 pm

For Neville and Spartan299 -

First of all, would you carry your ccw weapon with a full mag and no chambered round so you can rack it and scare the person off out of a desire not to shoot them?

Secondly, it's about options. Keeping your chamber empty takes away one of your options.

Let's say you wake up in the middle of the night and hear someone walking around. If you just rack and yell about calling the police, sure, maybe he/they will run off. He/they may just pull out guns of their own (with hands that were previously empty in preparation for taking your television), hide, and wait for you to walk into their ambush.

If you had crept out there quietly with a shotgun that was ready to fire, you could've had options. Nobody says that you can't rack your shotgun just because there's already a round in the chamber. If you walk into the living room and see some dumb shit little wannabe gang bangers who look scared and like they don't want to be there, keep your shotgun shouldered, maintain a good firing grip, slide a finger up and hit the forearm release, and rack it good and hard. Okay, so you lost the chambered shell, but you scared them badly enough that they'll probably just poop their pants, lay down, and wait for the cops to get there. If you're creeping out to the living room, they hear you, and start digging around their waistbands, they have to fumble fuck with drawing pistols under extreme stress, while all you have to do is point and shoot.

The argument of shooting a mistaken but harmless drunk isn't really valid in my opinion. If my plan is to investigate who's in my house, I'd still rather get the drop on him. Just because I'd choose to keep a shell chambered doesn't mean I'd race out of my bedroom and shoot the first thing I see; chambered or not chambered, target identification is key. Once again, if it's a confused drunk, I can still shoo him out of the house without racking a shotgun, but if I do end up needing to rack it, I can still do so even with a round in the chamber. I also don't know if someone who's so drunk that they broke into a completely wrong house will be able to process the shotgun racking sound, but that's not really relevant here.

I guess I don't see what you actually gain by keeping the chamber empty. To me, it's only detrimental. Whether your chamber is empty or loaded, you can still rack it if you need to, but if you need that gun right freakin' now and the chamber's empty, you're boned. Where's the benefit?
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Kelvar » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:49 pm

Spartan299 wrote:I keep the 870 loaded and chamber clear. Nothin' like the sound of a pump action shotgun drivin' a shell home! I like ta think of it as a non lethal deterent. :lol:
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Einher » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:55 pm

Rob wrote:I have a question about keeping a home defense shot gun.

12G Mossberg 930 SPX is the weapon in question if anyone wants to know, i have no kids and the wife is capable of using it as much as I am.

For home defense purposes:

Should the gun be in the home loaded?
Presuming it is stored safely in an area away from extreme sources of heat (such as an oven) where visitors or strangers (aka 'children of all ages') can't get to it easily to play with it, there is no harm in keeping the magazine tube loaded.
Rob wrote:Should the gun have a shell chambered?
I recommend you keep the shotgun 'cruiser ready' (ie; the hammer is down on an EMPTY chamber).
Many shotguns are NOT drop-safe (even with the safety engaged), and the way I hear it any given police department will only put up with so many holes punched in the roof or floor of their cruisers before corrective policy comes into play.
I keep my handgun in my dresser stored the same way, 'cruiser ready'.

People are of mixed opinion about this storage method, but I have no real reason to believe that anyone is hunting/stalking me and I want to narrow my cross-section of risk from accidents as well as home intrusion as much as possible.

IMO It's enough to have the magazine loaded and know (because it is stored with the hammer down on an empty chamber) that the chances of accidental discharge or leaving a round in the chamber are at their lowest.

If I think someone's out to get me, I may start storing it with a round in the chamber; but that's more of an individual choice.

If you are still in the 'breaking in' period with your new firearm (aka; you still need to give it's furniture a good groping and give it's naughty bits a good scrubbing after playing with it at the range for sighting in or functionality/ammo test), I recommend that you do NOT load it at all, and merely keep the ammunition close at hand.

The Police can't stand holes in their cruisers, I doubt anyone could stand holes in their homes or family from accident.
My $0.02 USD

P.S. - Never rely on sound to drive your attackers away (by racking a shot); unless it's your muzzle report aimed directly at them accompanied by a wad of lead shot.
Rob wrote:Should the gun be unloaded and securely stored every time I leave the house? (sounds like a pain in the ass... why can't i just take it with me to work :( sigh )

The gun will be unloaded and secured when nephews are over.
I don't recommend constantly loading/unloading any firearm that is supposed to be kept ready to protect you or your family. It is usually better to prevent visitor access to one room of your home (aka your bedroom) or otherwise make the firearm inaccessible (which removing the ammunition would do, of course).

IMO Constantly loading and unloading your firearm is almost asking for an accident to happen (especially if you keep a shell in the chamber).

Once you have the firearm prepared for immediate response and stored in an appropriate area, you should almost forget it's even there.

Almost
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Spartan299 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:56 pm

Power Fail:
And your first mistake was thinkin' I care about your input on my situation. You're welcome ta walk in ta my house uninvited and see what kinda options I have. Like I need ta be schooled by you! :lol:
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Re: home defense shotgun question

Post by Turtlewolf » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:59 pm

Keeping the chamber empty is perhaps a carry over from keeping the springs from over extending over time, not realy sure if it is an old wives tale or not or even valid in modern firearms. I know I have always kept my camp shotty loaded but chamber empty, but then cougars and bears don't need a warning realy and thats probably all I'll ever face.

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