All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by PistolPete » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:46 pm

Gingerbread Man wrote: Point is mechanical devices regardless of who makes them can and do fail. I've yet to have any trouble getting anything repaired, replaced, refunded or made right by any of these companies, even PSA. Even ASC, they gave me new mags when I told them about the 6.5 mags. Thing is, to me, no one ever attempts to speak with anyone about setting the issue right and run to the internet to bash them.

As a gun community, we can do better IMO. I think that's the entire point of help me build me AR thread, to help each other. :D

/Soap box.
There is a difference between breaking during use and showing up in a non-functional status. 5 mags and they are all failing in exactly the same way. That's either a design flaw or bad QC. Either is a problem that we shouldn't put up with. At this point I have no reason to think another 5 mags wouldn't fail in the same way.

BTW, when I posted this I had already dis-assembled, cleaned, lubed and re-assembled. The problem was unchanged.

As consumers we owe nothing to the companies that give us crap. I disagree with you there. There's no solidarity expected just because a company makes gun parts instead of motorcycle parts. And if I ordered motorcycle parts that didn't work when I got them, I'd be just as vocal about it. That's how capitalism and free speech works. We should advise other potential customers of a crappy product, not try to play nice with the company that made them.

I may try some different followers to see if I can find something that works better. If anyone has other ideas, I'm totally open to them.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Gingerbread Man » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:30 pm

You make strong arguments, Pete. I like that.

You're correct, we shouldn't accept crap and it does benefit us all to speak about it.

I have a few reviews in the mix, I'll post them when I have them built and tested. You know, for science.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by PistolPete » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:45 pm

So I did some trial and error and took another picture. This is the follower and spring next to an old 5.56 follower and spring. I'll point out the differences I think matter.
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The 7.62x39 spring is longer, but so is the mag so that makes sense. It's also thinner, side to side. The 5.56 spring is fatter, which locks into the rear portion of the mag. The 5.56 spring can't sit in the forward part of the mag because the spring is too fat to slide past the front most rib.

On the 7.62 mag the spring is free to move willy-nilly about inside the mag.

The second, and what I think is most important, is the 7.62 spring is not attached to the follower. The 5.56 spring is attached to a point toward the rear of the follower. Magpul 5.56 followers are set up the same way, as are my 6.8 C-Products mags. The 7.62 spring is again allowed to slide willy-nilly on the follower.

The 5.56 (and 6.8) followers guarantee pressure on the rear of the follower, the exact portion that isn't getting enough pressure in my 7.62x39 mags. In fact, when I try the old style or Magpul follower and shorter 5.56 spring in my 7.62 mag, it feeds the last rounds fine. It feeds 20 rounds in a row totally fine. (I can't attach the longer 7.62 springs without modification because they don't have the bend to hook into the follower.)

The third difference you notice is at the front of the follower, the 5.56 version has that part that goes down to keep it from tilting too much. The 7.62 mag doesn't have that, and sure enough it rises up at an angle.

So the question I have now is why did ASC make a follower that doesn't have the place to hook in a spring? Especially if a 5.56 follower works just fine. Was it for capacity, to get an extra round or two to fit? I'd gladly take a 28 round mag that feeds everything than a 30 round mag that won't feed the last two rounds.

I'm going to test a couple 5.56 followers in my 7.62x39 bodies and see how they work when I'm not hand feeding. If they work, I've got a cheap fix for my problem, new followers. Then I'll bend up the 7.62 springs to hook to a 5.56 style follower.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Dave_M » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:55 pm

Issues with a 7.62x39 AR? I'm -shocked-

Do a scrub and buff as recommended. If you have to download the mags to make them run reliably then so be it. The curvature of the round is just one of the reasons why x39 AR's don't always run so hot. Some designs utilize x39 native mags but have issues all their own. Commie cartridges, like profanity and slang, don't always translate so well.

I'm assuming this is just a training/fun rifle?
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by PistolPete » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:06 pm

Dave_M wrote:Issues with a 7.62x39 AR? I'm -shocked-

Do a scrub and buff as recommended. If you have to download the mags to make them run reliably then so be it. The curvature of the round is just one of the reasons why x39 AR's don't always run so hot. Some designs utilize x39 native mags but have issues all their own. Commie cartridges, like profanity and slang, don't always translate so well.

I'm assuming this is just a training/fun rifle?
Yep, just for training. I expect the occasional issue, which will help me practice malf drills. :lol:

7.62x39 was just so much cheaper than 223 and 5.56 for a while I convinced myself I'd get more shooting in this way. We'll see how it goes.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by AS556 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:35 pm

Pete, I say sell the rifle off for a 5.45 upper and be done with it. I hear good things about using downloaded Emags for 5.45. Will allow you to use same support gear and the recoil impulse, bullet drop, etc will be more similar to .223.

That's what I'd do at least. To each their own.

Or just buy an AK. Trigger time is still trigger time.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Dave_M » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:39 pm

AS556 wrote:Pete, I say sell the rifle off for a 5.45 upper and be done with it. I hear good things about using downloaded Emags for 5.45. Will allow you to use same support gear and the recoil impulse, bullet drop, etc will be more similar to .223.

That's what I'd do at least. To each their own.

Or just buy an AK. Trigger time is still trigger time.
It appears all benefits of a 5.45 rifle have been negated by new importation restrictions on 7N6 (you know, the cheap stuff). At least that's the hubbub. Commercially produced 5.45 (Wolf etc) costs the same as any other caliber.

The time to have jumped on the 5.45-AR-train was five years ago. Even back then part of the cost of entry (IMO) was spending about $2k on ammo because surplus always becomes scarce eventually.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by AS556 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:53 pm

True. I didn't realize the non 7n6 5.45 had risen to about steel case .223 is.

I change my vote to sell rifle and use funds for a few k of steel .223 and a carbine course.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by 0122358 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:08 am

AS556 wrote:True. I didn't realize the non 7n6 5.45 had risen to about steel case .223 is.

I change my vote to sell rifle and use funds for a few k of steel .223 and a carbine course.
This...

I always looked at 5.45 as a meh caliber, cool to shoot...low cost sort of...but now. fuck it.

Ok So back to my question earlier...

front sling mounts...the Blue force gear UWL, would that: A. work as a short term front attachment point, B. work with a VCAS/VTAC padded 2 point sling?
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by PistolPete » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:02 am

AS556 wrote:True. I didn't realize the non 7n6 5.45 had risen to about steel case .223 is.

I change my vote to sell rifle and use funds for a few k of steel .223 and a carbine course.
7n6 has risen about 50% over the last few years, but the real news is the ATF isn't allowing imports of it right now. They aren't blocking it, it's just all being held at port. If it does get banned (for being an armor piercing pistol round) then 5.45 loses the cheap factor.

I actually just took a course (using steel case 223, even) two weeks ago. A platform with cheaper ammo just allows me to do things like that more often. I guess I could learn how to run an AK, but that seems like a lot of trouble. :lol:

*my eyes suck and I have a hard time with the AK irons, and once you put a good mount and red dot on an AK it would cost a fair bit more than the 7.62x39 AR I put together.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by s.leinicke » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:41 pm

How am I supposed to start finding things in this thread? We really need to start a "help me build my AR" board. I'm starting up 3-gun stuff and instead of retooling my CMP AR I'm starting from scratch. I want to cut price and weight wherever possible, but I have a 3k budget with empty rails. I'm going to start at the beginning, but I would welcome tips on where to start on this project.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by thrillbilly » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:11 pm

So, for a range-gun and coyote gun....would the cheap PSA upper be sufficient? They had a complete upper (with BCG and charging handle) for a Daily Deal the other day, 309$

So with my lower, I could have complete AR for right at 500$


When I decide to go forward with the BCM build, I could sell the cheap one locally for 600-700$

I just want to focus on AK platform mostly right now, but I wouldnt mind a coyote killer and fun gun right now. Not a ''serious'' AR by any means.


I'm assuming the cheap PSA uppers would suffice?
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by A Pimp Named Slickback » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:16 pm

I can't tell if I want to keep my aimpoint and sell it for a 1x4 scope... Can't shoot for shit past 50 yards even with practicing but freck it, I will just buy a magnifier :awesome:
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Makarov » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:34 pm

s.leinicke wrote:How am I supposed to start finding things in this thread? We really need to start a "help me build my AR" board. I'm starting up 3-gun stuff and instead of retooling my CMP AR I'm starting from scratch. I want to cut price and weight wherever possible, but I have a 3k budget with empty rails. I'm going to start at the beginning, but I would welcome tips on where to start on this project.
3k with empty rails as in no optics or accessories included?
- If that's so I don't think there's an reason to build anything yourself when you can buy about any type of boutique-rifle within that budget. You could look into JP rifles (CTR-02), and maybe LaRue (PredatAR or PredatOBR).
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by TheLastOne » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:54 pm

Makarov wrote:
s.leinicke wrote:How am I supposed to start finding things in this thread? We really need to start a "help me build my AR" board. I'm starting up 3-gun stuff and instead of retooling my CMP AR I'm starting from scratch. I want to cut price and weight wherever possible, but I have a 3k budget with empty rails. I'm going to start at the beginning, but I would welcome tips on where to start on this project.
3k with empty rails as in no optics or accessories included?
- If that's so I don't think there's an reason to build anything yourself when you can buy about any type of boutique-rifle within that budget. You could look into JP rifles (CTR-02), and maybe LaRue (PredatAR or PredatOBR).


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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:01 pm

How I would build a $3000 competition gun:

Buy BCM middy upper with KRM.
Mod4 BCM charging handle
A2 (unless you have a suppressor or brake you must have)
Buy lower with stock and trigger of choice. I'm kinda partial to the MOE rifle stock or E-Mod, and a CMC flat blade trigger.
Assemble with BCG of choice.

Now you can spend $1500 on optics.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by prtp3warrior » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:43 am

thrillbilly wrote:So, for a range-gun and coyote gun....would the cheap PSA upper be sufficient? They had a complete upper (with BCG and charging handle) for a Daily Deal the other day, 309$

So with my lower, I could have complete AR for right at 500$


When I decide to go forward with the BCM build, I could sell the cheap one locally for 600-700$

I just want to focus on AK platform mostly right now, but I wouldnt mind a coyote killer and fun gun right now. Not a ''serious'' AR by any means.


I'm assuming the cheap PSA uppers would suffice?

That one was probably not a PSA. It was most likely a PTAC for that price. Yes there is a difference.

Having said that it would probably be fine. If it is your only AR, go with a Chrome Lined PSA. If it is just a shooter/spare...the PTAC is a good deal.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by PistolPete » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:27 am

A Pimp Named Slickback wrote:I can't tell if I want to keep my aimpoint and sell it for a 1x4 scope... Can't shoot for shit past 50 yards even with practicing but freck it, I will just buy a magnifier :awesome:
If you can't shoot past 50 yards you don't need a different optic, you need more ammo and practice. Spend your monies there. Find an Appleseed or USRA class in your area.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by 0122358 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:44 am

Ok y'all...I did it...I pulled the trigger and ordered my parts. My mid-length duty grade AR that I've been talking about for two years is finally on the high road to completion.

Going down my list from previously:

Aero Lower
PSA lower group
Magpul MOE grip and STR stock, black
BCM BFH 16 inch LW 1:7 chrome lined mid length upper receiver group
Troy low profile back up rear iron sight
Magpul MOE middy black hand guards, black
BCM gunfighter charging handle Mod 3
BCM gunfighter short vertical fore-grip, black
Impact weapon components mount n' slot light mount
Streamlight Polytec LED weapons light, black
Blue force gear UWL 3.25
VTAC padded 2 point sling, black

I figure eventually I'm going to put a DD omega rail on her so I'll ill keep the moe handguards and light/mount for when I rebuild my Oly Arms into a 14.5 middy in year or two.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by TheLastOne » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:19 am

Dunno anything about that lower, but I have that bcm bfh middy upper. It's all kinds of nice. I run moe handguards too. I don't have much need for rails or keymod even. I just run a light. Moe's are $30, light weight, and pretty enough for me.






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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by 0122358 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:26 am

TheLastOne wrote:Dunno anything about that lower, but I have that bcm bfh middy upper. It's all kinds of nice. I run moe handguards too. I don't have much need for rails or keymod even. I just run a light. Moe's are $30, light weight, and pretty enough for me.






I want the fucking grey ones already.
My lower is aero precision...they guys I think make the majority of the lowers out there that other brands simply rename with their lower...I think, Doc said something like this a few times.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by 91Eunozs » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:29 am

TheLastOne wrote:... Moe's are $30, light weight, and pretty enough for me.

I want the fucking grey ones already.
This. Have a build waiting specifically for the grey MOE...
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Rednex » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:28 pm

I have a planed light weight AR that the Grey MOE will go nicely with. Went to the range to function test a build and sight it in. Well it worked well no short stroking , no FTF , no FTE ran great. How ever since i didn't want to permanently marry parts to each other til i see how it ran i didn't lock tight the EoTech in its place. After 100 rounds the scope was a little lose, other then that its GTG.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by A Pimp Named Slickback » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:05 pm

PistolPete wrote:
A Pimp Named Slickback wrote:I can't tell if I want to keep my aimpoint and sell it for a 1x4 scope... Can't shoot for shit past 50 yards even with practicing but freck it, I will just buy a magnifier :awesome:
If you can't shoot past 50 yards you don't need a different optic, you need more ammo and practice. Spend your monies there. Find an Appleseed or USRA class in your area.

Eyes, I will probably get a magnifier from PA if nothing comes up for a trade. Been there, done that with eye exams and is what it is.
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