All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by BullOnParade » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:24 am

I'm nearly done compiling components for my first build, and am in need of some insight re: hand guards/front sights/gas block.

I have an 11.5" barrel and carbine gas tube. I was thinking low profile gas block and mlok hand guard in the 12" range, does what I want exist?

Edit: that's a poorly posed question.

What is my best option for what I'm looking for? Am I limiting myself in possibilities of cowitness? Is there anything I need to consider that isn't jumping out at me? Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by 91Eunozs » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:50 pm

BullOnParade wrote:I'm nearly done compiling components for my first build, and am in need of some insight re: hand guards/front sights/gas block.

I have an 11.5" barrel and carbine gas tube. I was thinking low profile gas block and mlok hand guard in the 12" range, does what I want exist?

Edit: that's a poorly posed question.

What is my best option for what I'm looking for? Am I limiting myself in possibilities of cowitness? Is there anything I need to consider that isn't jumping out at me? Any help would be appreciated.
I'm assuming you have a free floated hand guard vs. one requiring a plate behind the gas block to hold it in place... A 12" handguard on an 11.5" barrel may look weird...even with a flash hider it'll just barely stick out past the end.

I have a handguard like that...12" handguard over an 8" barrel and suppressor. The supressor sticks out about an inch past the handguard...which was exactly the look I wanted for that upper.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by BullOnParade » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:47 am

Yeah, that's the look I want, flush/minimal muzzle protrusion. I picked up an abused DD free float tube from a guy on a Canadian forum, he said its rifle length and 12", I'm sceptical of his length estimate. If it's too long, I'll trim it on a lathe. The fudd he got it from butchered it already by drilling holes for a bipod stud, so it's a project piece. I'll throw it in the mill and try my hand at some M-LOK slots as well.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Langenator » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:36 pm

If you're putting any sort of a brake on it, make sure the baffles are beyond the handguard. The hot gas can/will do bad things, otherwise.

A hand stop might also be a wise accessory.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by BullOnParade » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:23 pm

I figured the threaded portion of the barrel will be outside of the hand guard when I'm finished, but I'm curious now what these undesirable side effects may be, I'd imagine it results in a very warm hand guard very quickly ...
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:50 pm

BullOnParade wrote:I figured the threaded portion of the barrel will be outside of the hand guard when I'm finished, but I'm curious now what these undesirable side effects may be, I'd imagine it results in a very warm hand guard very quickly ...
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by 74 or more » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:59 pm

This thread is kind of like drinking from a fire hose haha. I'd like to build an AR but don't know much about it. Not so much looking for a "parts list" (not that i would mind that).....more like how do I begin to figure this out? Can someone point me in the right direction?

.....And yes im embarrassed that im asking "how do you build an AR"
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by BullOnParade » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:04 pm

No shame dude. I'm wrapping up my first build and I was super intimidated when I started.

First thing you need is a lower (often referred to as a receiver or lower receiver), followed by a lower parts kit (often known as a LPK). A receiver extension (aka buffer tube) sticks out the back, inside that goes a buffer and spring. Buffer tube is attached using a castle but and a receiver plate is pinched inbetween. Add a stock of your favourite flavour and you have a complete lower.

Start your upper (or upper receiver) by adding a dust cover and forward assist (often sold already assembled). Fill it with a bolt carrier group (holds your firing pin and other small goodies) and bolt handle. Out the front goes a barrel. Attached to the barre is a gas block (sometimes the front sight is the gas block, sometimes the front sight mounts to the gas block, sometimes the front sight doesn't exist but you still need a gas block) which redirects gas through the gas tube to cycle the action. you have a few options between free float tubes, traditional hand guards, railed hand guards, each installing differently, YouTube can help you with specifics of each. Add optics, BUIS or carry handle rear sight (or a combination of all three, and you're done.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by 74 or more » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:17 pm

BullOnParade wrote:No shame dude. I'm wrapping up my first build and I was super intimidated when I started.

First thing you need is a lower (often referred to as a receiver or lower receiver), followed by a lower parts kit (often known as a LPK). A receiver extension (aka buffer tube) sticks out the back, inside that goes a buffer and spring. Buffer tube is attached using a castle but and a receiver plate is pinched inbetween. Add a stock of your favourite flavour and you have a complete lower.

Start your upper (or upper receiver) by adding a dust cover and forward assist (often sold already assembled). Fill it with a bolt carrier group (holds your firing pin and other small goodies) and bolt handle. Out the front goes a barrel. Attached to the barre is a gas block (sometimes the front sight is the gas block, sometimes the front sight mounts to the gas block, sometimes the front sight doesn't exist but you still need a gas block) which redirects gas through the gas tube to cycle the action. you have a few options between free float tubes, traditional hand guards, railed hand guards, each installing differently, YouTube can help you with specifics of each. Add optics, BUIS or carry handle rear sight (or a combination of all three, and you're done.
Good heavens that was insanely helpful. Thank you sir. Are there any companies I should stay away from/head towards. I was looking at PSA for the lower. That's about as far as I've got haha.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by BullOnParade » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:30 pm

That's obviously over simplified. Research the best options for assembling all these pieces. There's a few great YouTube videos for simple things like the lower parts kit, and a lot of that snaps together like Lego. There's also more intricate assembly options like staking the castle nut to prevent it from coming loose under even the most extreme situations.

I'll leave brands to someone else, I don't know the specific pecking order of quality manufacturers.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Langenator » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:53 pm

Some other considerations:

-a fixed stock lower receiver can be assembled with no special tools (I did my first that way). That said, a special tool for the front pivot pin saves a good bit of headache.

-all of the adjustable stocks I've seen require a tool to tighten (or loosen) the castle nut and plate in place. You can get either a special tool that just does the castle nut, or whats commonly called an 'armorer's wrench' or similar which does the castle nut ane d other things.

I've never actually assembled an upper - I've either bought one assembled, or paid a 'smith to put my parts together. But if memory serves, to build your own upper assembly, you will need a vice, an upper receiver vice block, and a barrel wrench (I think some armorer's wrenches can be used for this purpose.) The need for a vice and block are the big reasons I've never done my own upper.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by BullOnParade » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:21 pm

An upper vise block and lower vise block are combo'd on Brownell's for $70 I think, cheap wrenches (NCStar) are about $30 (locally, probably less stateside). Buy a solid piece wrench, I don't know if other brands are worth 50% more or not.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by zobmiedown » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:06 pm

I recently finished reading this whole thread from start to end. Of course I did not find this thread until I had already built 7 ARs from scratch using youtube videos. I found it very fun and relaxing and built my uppers as well. Armorers wrench and upper vice block are required to do that as well as a torque wrench and a vise. I also just rebuilt two old Olympic arms rifles I have had since 2006 to upgrade and change up for both aesthetics (1 blue for my daughter and one in red for me) and weight. The red one is only waiting for the free float tube to arrive and it will be finished. For the lower you need a set of punches to drive the pins and again the same armorers wrench. If you plan on doing more than one rifle and lets face it pretty much every one that build one builds a few more then the tools are well worth the money.

I just ordered this limited edition lower for a pistol build I am under taking with plans to then do the ATF paper work and make it a legal short barreled rifle in .223/5.56 and then follow that with one in 300 BO and get a 30 caliber can for them. https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/colle ... 6693708609

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by BullOnParade » Wed May 18, 2016 1:23 pm

So I bought this two piece hand guard a couple of weeks ago, and it showed up yesterday (thanks, customs). I brought it to work today so I could install it. Counter to the one comment on the Brownell's page, the slots at the business end are m-lok compatible (quick comparison last night with a hand stop).

Now, I assume it's normal to turn a few thou off the threaded end of a two piece hand guard in order to time the rails/slots/etc?
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Assault Life » Wed May 18, 2016 1:34 pm

BullOnParade wrote:So I bought this two piece hand guard a couple of weeks ago, and it showed up yesterday (thanks, customs). I brought it to work today so I could install it. Counter to the one comment on the Brownell's page, the slots at the business end are m-lok compatible (quick comparison last night with a hand stop).

Now, I assume it's normal to turn a few thou off the threaded end of a two piece hand guard in order to time the rails/slots/etc?
The link doesn't work, so I'm not sure which handguard you got. Being a 2 piece, you shouldn't have to time it. Most free floats that need to be timed come with shims to adjust it.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by brothaman » Fri May 27, 2016 8:22 am

Oh my damn I hate to ask this,... But I want the clarity.

AR build,.. converting a rifle to pistol to rifle to pistol on the same lower.

To stay legal, does is matter how you register the lower? Do you need to register as a pistol or other on the 4473 to stay legal? Does converting from rifle to pistol follow the TC Contender ruling that states the sum of the parts as assembled at that moment makes the weapon a NFA firearm, pistol, or a rifle depending on the original intent of the builder or manufacturer?
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri May 27, 2016 8:40 am

brothaman wrote:Oh my damn I hate to ask this,... But I want the clarity.

AR build,.. converting a rifle to pistol to rifle to pistol on the same lower.

To stay legal, does is matter how you register the lower? Do you need to register as a pistol or other on the 4473 to stay legal? Does converting from rifle to pistol follow the TC Contender ruling that states the sum of the parts as assembled at that moment makes the weapon a NFA firearm, pistol, or a rifle depending on the original intent of the builder or manufacturer?
Rifles cannot become pistols, ever. Ever ever ever.

A pistol can be converted to a rifle temporarily or even permanently, and can be converted back (so long as the short barrel and stock are not on the gun at the same time) without a tax stamp.

A stripped lower is built a a receiver, which is why they cannot be sold to anyone under the age of 21 (retail) just like a pistol. A stripped lower can be built into any number of firearms, inclkuding rifle, pistol, AoW, MG, whatever, so long as the law is followed and proper tax stamps/licenses are filed.

The T/C ruling, AFAIK, still maintains that a firearm build as a rifle (note, manufacturers pay a tax for each firearm, and the tax differs based on the type of firearm, they do not register them per se) is a rifle unless it is re-manufactured, i.e. a Form 1 to register the receiver as being a SBR or whatever. The T/C ruling, unless you've seen something I didn't, did not allow a receiver that was manufactured to be built as a rifle. Rather, consistent with previous rulings, it allowed the use of a stock on a pistol so long as it was attached after and removed before a barrel that would bring the OAL and barrel length to NFA regulation lengths.

If your state has registration, and you wish to use your firearm as both a rifle and a pistol, you would need to build and register it as a pistol. There is no federal registration of firearms built by individuals for personal use, save for NFA registration.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by brothaman » Fri May 27, 2016 8:59 am

Thanks, DFab.

This was exactly my understanding. Just making sure I was relaying correct information to a friend.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri May 27, 2016 10:12 am

Glad I could help!
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by BullOnParade » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:41 pm

Finally got my AR to the range this weekend. Everything functioned, got it sighted in, and the best part is, it is the favourite thing my girlfriend has shot yet. Though with the 10" barrel, all I can say is, no wonder so many people opt for suppressors on SBRs.
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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by PlugUgly » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:22 pm

I'm getting a lot of deflection (I think that's the appropriate term?) when I try to use my 3x magnifier with my red dot. I've got them both as far back as I can get them on the upper which helps but I still find myself leaning into it like a scope, and with that I lose my coefficient with my front iron. Am I just overthinking this??? It's a UTG 3x with a Bushnell's trs-25, a budget combo I know :oops:. But I do a lot, A LOT of research and reviews before I commit to anything and both of these had really good reviews for the price. Admittedly, I have pretty much no experience with a red dot until now so I apologize if these are all really dumb questions.

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Re: All purpose "Help me build my AR" thread.

Post by jeepinbandtrider » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:23 am

What does your front iron have to do with the RDS or the magnifier?


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Re: All purpose

Post by MacWa77ace » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:34 pm

jeepinbandtrider wrote:What does your front iron have to do with the RDS or the magnifier?


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He might mean co-witness.
Deflection may also mean parallax?!? IDK.
PlugUgly wrote:I'm getting a lot of deflection (I think that's the appropriate term?) when I try to use my 3x magnifier with my red dot. I've got them both as far back as I can get them on the upper which helps but I still find myself leaning into it like a scope, and with that I lose my coefficient with my front iron. Am I just overthinking this??? It's a UTG 3x with a Bushnell's trs-25, a budget combo I know :oops:. But I do a lot, A LOT of research and reviews before I commit to anything and both of these had really good reviews for the price. Admittedly, I have pretty much no experience with a red dot until now so I apologize if these are all really dumb questions.

If you loose your 'co-witness' when you are at the correct eye relief, then UR not properly co-witnessed in the first place.

I have a UTG 3x FTS. I don't remember the exact spec on the eye relief but if you look that up, that is the distance your eye should be from the magnifier. Whatever the eye relief is in the spec', that's where your head is supposed to be. I don't notice any type of uncomfortable leaning to use it either. Remember Scopes and CQB optics are different animals. One noticeable difference is the eye relief. Scopes its usually long, up to a few inches. Mid and CQ optics usually have a short eye relief, down to 1/2" in some instances. And RDSs its usually an unlimited eye relief until you put a magnifier in front of them. This is just a difference, not a defect.

Also some RDS have parallax beyond certain distances, and that should be written into the RDS's spec sheet also.

And you probably know this but you have to keep your head locked in place on the stock once you get your sight alignment, and move the rifle to look. If you're moving your cheek positioning [even forward and backwards] that will get you bad results.

And lastly if your optics are mounted crooked it may take a lot of turns to site in and then the dot may appear to be a little off center, but I'm not going into co-witnessing. [you didn't mention if you had a rear iron sight in this system, or what type of stock UR using, but your cheek position will be determined by the optic's eye relief.] My UTG 'flip to side' requires that my RDS is also mounted on a low profile riser to get it centered on the magnifier. If you don't do that you will have issues also.
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Re: All purpose

Post by PlugUgly » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:28 pm

MacWa77ace wrote:
jeepinbandtrider wrote:What does your front iron have to do with the RDS or the magnifier?


Sent from my iPhone
He might mean co-witness.
Deflection may also mean parallax?!? IDK.
PlugUgly wrote:I'm getting a lot of deflection (I think that's the appropriate term?) when I try to use my 3x magnifier with my red dot. I've got them both as far back as I can get them on the upper which helps but I still find myself leaning into it like a scope, and with that I lose my coefficient with my front iron. Am I just overthinking this??? It's a UTG 3x with a Bushnell's trs-25, a budget combo I know :oops:. But I do a lot, A LOT of research and reviews before I commit to anything and both of these had really good reviews for the price. Admittedly, I have pretty much no experience with a red dot until now so I apologize if these are all really dumb questions.

If you loose your 'co-witness' when you are at the correct eye relief, then UR not properly co-witnessed in the first place.

I have a UTG 3x FTS. I don't remember the exact spec on the eye relief but if you look that up, that is the distance your eye should be from the magnifier. Whatever the eye relief is in the spec', that's where your head is supposed to be. I don't notice any type of uncomfortable leaning to use it either. Remember Scopes and CQB optics are different animals. One noticeable difference is the eye relief. Scopes its usually long, up to a few inches. Mid and CQ optics usually have a short eye relief, down to 1/2" in some instances. And RDSs its usually an unlimited eye relief until you put a magnifier in front of them. This is just a difference, not a defect.

Also some RDS have parallax beyond certain distances, and that should be written into the RDS's spec sheet also.

And you probably know this but you have to keep your head locked in place on the stock once you get your sight alignment, and move the rifle to look. If you're moving your cheek positioning [even forward and backwards] that will get you bad results.

And lastly if your optics are mounted crooked it may take a lot of turns to site in and then the dot may appear to be a little off center, but I'm not going into co-witnessing. [you didn't mention if you had a rear iron sight in this system, or what type of stock UR using, but your cheek position will be determined by the optic's eye relief.] My UTG 'flip to side' requires that my RDS is also mounted on a low profile riser to get it centered on the magnifier. If you don't do that you will have issues also.
thanks for the help on this, and yes you new exactly what my poor nomenclature meant. i'll be going to the range this weekend after being out of town for work over the past few weeks, so I will finally have a chance to work this all out and utilize your advice. Thanks again Mac

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